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In the Name of God بسم الله
Islandsandmirrors

Can some people see angels and jinns?

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Guest Itsme
39 minutes ago, Guest Observer said:

yes there is people alive even today who can see them talk to them and work with them

I think the question that is more important is who are these people and why can they see them?

well firstly u have to be able to handle seeing them, why do they get revealed to people? as a test to increase faith and for God to show his approval of a person

but the kind of people that are seeing angles are not people who would feel pride from having an ability to do something that others don’t, if most people had this ability they would feel proud and hence cause their faith to fall, so for most people this would be a destructive ability hence why it is now shown

when a person reaches a certain level of faith God has promised to not only show angels but show his elite creatures and hidden creatures and things which others have not even heard or known about so that God can show his magnitude and power and hence increase the persons faith , but at this level of faith even a bad thought is not allowed and would , and these people are masters of keeping secrets and despite all this magnificence it doesn’t derail them from acting normal and humble etc

Even our Aimmah could not see angels brother - this is in our Hadith, though they could hear them. So I don't know on what authority any of us could claim to see angels. Furthermore, I haven't seen any proof of people being able to actually see these beings, and the people that tend to see them often have either been brought up in cultures where the idea of Jinns and spirits have a bigger role than in other places, not scholars, and it may be possible that people who claim to see things others can't may actually have visual hallucinations.

If we start to tell people who can see things that they have this amazing special ability, this might impede them from seeking medical treatment. Are you aware tumours can cause this? Severe depression? Scihzophrenia? Drugs? 

A lot of people have an ability to see things other people can't, and that isn't a cause to celebrate, because these people need support, and need help with the unfortunate stigma that results. 

Where is the evidence for these claims? 

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Guest Itsme

Some experiences from Christians:

Example one: https://www.christianforums.com/threads/I-saw-jesus-in-my-college-dorm-room.8041133/

I just thought I should share this testimony so I could bless someone. when I was in college I went through a lot of persecution and dealing with people who were rude to me or jealous for whatever reason, so I felt alone and like I didnt fit in. during the summer time I stayed on campus by myself and I decided to dedicate my life to jesus whole heartedly. because of this, I lost a lot of friendships since I was a hardcore party person before that. I didnt have a job so I just stayed in my apartment dorm room all day watching sermons on youtube and reading the bible. I fell asleep one night after reading in psalms in one of the chapters talking about how the lord is our shield and he guards us. I woke up in the middle of the night to see the most beautiful, glowing figure standing at the foot of my bed. it was jesus. he was tall with curly hair. he had a wide smile and loving eyes. he was made of fibers of light, nothing like ive ever seen before. he was emenating all of the fruits of the spirit. love, joy, peace, everything. I even talk about it more in depth on my youtube channel (artoniquenelson) I havent been the same since! God bless"

 

Example two:https://www.christianforums.com/threads/my-testimony-of-what-I-saw.8104383/

"On January 9th 2011 I was listening to the book of Matthew in my living room on my laptop. As the Lord was being quoted in the audio my ears were opened for the first time to the word of God. In this moment I knew Jesus was God in heaven and upon this revelation I knew I was guilty and was going to be judged by him. This is when a terrifying fear came over me that I never felt before, this fear was so terrible that I immediately shut off the audio and got up from my sofa and started pacing around in my living room to shake it free. So there was I in my home by my self agonizing over this condemnation, this fear of Christ. My pacing ended in my kitchen and it was there that I accepted the judgment and knowing that I could do nothing, not even dismiss these thoughts, I did what any little boy would do, even though I was 33: I cried and admitted my faults, and being ashamed and crying the last thing I said to Jesus was have mercy on me. After this clearing of my self I went back into the living room and sat down and as soon as I sat with my eyes being opened I had a vision, and there in the darkness of this vision I saw the Son of God crucified and upon this vision I believed Jesus Christ died for my sins. Believing in what I saw was the only thing that took the fear away and replaced it with comfort"

 

 

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Guest Observer
3 hours ago, Guest Itsme said:

Even our Aimmah could not see angels brother - this is in our Hadith, though they could hear them. So I don't know on what authority any of us could claim to see angels. Furthermore, I haven't seen any proof of people being able to actually see these beings, and the people that tend to see them often have either been brought up in cultures where the idea of Jinns and spirits have a bigger role than in other places, not scholars, and it may be possible that people who claim to see things others can't may actually have visual hallucinations.

If we start to tell people who can see things that they have this amazing special ability, this might impede them from seeking medical treatment. Are you aware tumours can cause this? Severe depression? Scihzophrenia? Drugs? 

A lot of people have an ability to see things other people can't, and that isn't a cause to celebrate, because these people need support, and need help with the unfortunate stigma that results. 

Where is the evidence for these claims? 

When God wants to show a person something "divine" he shows it in forms which are suitable, such as when Luqman was visited by angels that were presented in human forms , same way other people perceive otherworldly beings in different ways, yes your correct that they are not in our physical form as we are in this world, but they can be made to appear that way,  they can also be made to appear as lights which are visible only to the hearts eye, so the way it appears is like a strong perception to the person he can "feel" this person or being in front of him , also same way that Prophet Muhammad was held tightly by angel gabriel they can also appear this way to people

Jinn can actually be formed as dark smoke, which is transparent but visible to ones who have opened the hearts eye , so its like perceiving them in sense of feel, and this feel is able to also feel out their physical description, and also finally they can appear to the minds eye, so that they send forth a certain perception to the person once that person learns how to calm his mind and body and let it be open to send signals to , then at this point Jinns and even Angels and even other people can send information or perception or "visions" or images or pictures

Also there is plenty hadith where the Imams show the other world to people through their fingers, famously when one of the abbasid caliphs challeneged one of the Imams by saying that his army is s great he can build a reach to the heights of the sky , and hence he orders his army to pack saddle bags and other objects till it reaches a very high mountain like object and he climbs to the top with the Imam and challenges the Imam and says where is your army? And the Imams opens his two front fingers tells the caliph to look through and suddenly he is able to see all the angels in the sky armed to the teeth which are servants ot the Imam , and the caliph passes out from what he sees

There is many incidents of such things with both Prophets and Imams, such as the hadith about Prophet Musa when he is talking to angel of death , and a person walks past and the angel of death is astonished , and Musa asks him why he is astonished, and he says I am supposed to collect that mans soul tomorrow in country X(some place far away that would be unreachable overnight ) and yet he is here today, and their conversation ends, and Musa finds out that this same man went to some mystic and asked in order to escape some debt to use the winds to cast him far away to another country cause he doesnt have the debt to pay and his life is in danger, and hence the Mystic using the winds cast him to  afar away land where he dies anyway and hence Musa finds out about how it ended up so and so

Bottom line there is plenty hadith of Imams and Prophets communicating and acting with angels and Jinn, even in Karbala an army of Angels and an army of Jinn both came to Imam Hussein and he rejected them both , if he had accepted either, that also means that they could affect the physical material our world otherwise why would they offer to fight if they couldnt touch our world , clearly they could even kill people in our world, so obviously they can appear to people too, there is so many hadith about Angels and Imams and seeing them , some for punishment some for reward

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4 hours ago, Guest Itsme said:

Some experiences from Christians:

Salam it’s just because of programming subliminal between Christians from childhood , they see pictures & images of him everywhere from birth even they don’t go to church or community they will see  at least once a year in Christmas & movies & television that in particular situation their mind makes it a physical like image   Because of that making sculpture & drawing holy figures not recommended because it can manipulate mind of people in certain ways by some frauds but it’s also unavoidable by Muslims even in Muslim countries we saw that images from media & between minorities that recently images that referring to Shia Imams spreads between Shias because only Shias have a definition of face of Imam Mahdi (aj) that there is danger some groups are manipulating minds of people with these images so Shias May reject Imam Mahdi (aj) after his reappearance because there is danger that his real face doesn’t match with these fictional images from our Imams .

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Guest Itsme
4 hours ago, Guest Observer said:

 

Also there is plenty hadith where the Imams show the other world to people through their fingers, famously when one of the abbasid caliphs challeneged one of the Imams by saying that his army is s great he can build a reach to the heights of the sky , and hence he orders his army to pack saddle bags and other objects till it reaches a very high mountain like object and he climbs to the top with the Imam and challenges the Imam and says where is your army? And the Imams opens his two front fingers tells the caliph to look through and suddenly he is able to see all the angels in the sky armed to the teeth which are servants ot the Imam , and the caliph passes out from what he sees

What is the source for this particular claim brother? I thought the Aimmah can not actually see angels, so to they a corrupt Caliph saw them armed to the brim is very suspect. Was this narrated from a pulpit by one of the Zakiris? I have heard all sorts of claims, such as the twelfth Imam being taken up to the heavens by a bird that is allegedly Ruh al-Qudus, Zafer Jinn, and other myths.

Could you present the story, the source, and why you rely on it , either through its chain of narrators or other indicators that make you trust the narrative? 

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Guest Itsme
On 3/31/2019 at 2:29 PM, Ashvazdanghe said:

 Imam Khomeini (رضي الله عنه) that he could leave his body on his wish to explore more than our world

Where is the evidence that Imam al-Khomeini (may Allah bless his soul) had such powers to literally leave his body on his own command and explore the worlds of the unseen? I regard you  as an intelligent individual, and surely there should be a part of you that regards such narratives as highly questionable, if not farcical. 

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On 3/27/2019 at 8:20 AM, Islandsandmirrors said:

Out of curiosity, can people see angels and jinns before death? Or does one only see them when dying? Are there any Hadith about what jinns and angels look like? 

 

A typical human eye will respond to wavelengths from about 380 to 740 nanometers. In terms of frequency, this corresponds to a band in the vicinity of 430–770 THz.
This narrow spectrum we call light, beyond that we cannot see.
The generally accepted standard range of audible frequencies for humans is 20 to 20,000 Hz.
Beyond these frequencies we cannot hear.
Everything we can see hear touch or taste has a limitation beyond that our (body) senses do not respond.
Jinns and angels are beyond our senses.
You have to increase your sama'at and basarat to see, hear and feel other creatures around us.

Only Allah is sami and baseer.

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6 hours ago, Guest Observer said:

Jinn can actually be formed as dark smoke,

That's right. I have seen similar dark shadow figures like this one at 1:10 in this video captured by a security guard. There is also another much better fascinating video of a shadow jinn. I am trying to locate that video. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Guest Itsme said:

What is the source for this particular claim brother? I thought the Aimmah can not actually see angels, so to they a corrupt Caliph saw them armed to the brim is very suspect. Was this narrated from a pulpit by one of the Zakiris? I have heard all sorts of claims, such as the twelfth Imam being taken up to the heavens by a bird that is allegedly Ruh al-Qudus, Zafer Jinn, and other myths.

You people are too caught up. Trust me ordinary people do see these things, as I have as well. You are just waiting for some kind of a big announcement but your missing out on the gravy train or the purple piece of the pie so to speak in western terms. 

Edited by Murtaza1

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Guest Itsme
9 minutes ago, Murtaza1 said:

That's right. I have seen similar dark shadow figures like this at 1:10 in this video captured by a security guard. There is another much better fascinating video of a shadow jinn I saw which I am trying to find. 

You people are too caught up. Trust me ordinary people do see these things, as I have as well. You are just waiting for some kind of a big announcement but your missing out on the gravy train or the purple piece of the pie so to speak in western terms 

Just to help me understand, at first I was under the impression not everyone can see these things, but only some, perhaps those with some special ability. Now you are showing me a video which allegedly has one of these creatures actually recorded for everyone to see. Why is it in the video , every single one of us can see a shadowy thing moving across the wall? I thought not everyone can see these things and some require basirah etc? Alternatively, surely the people that see these things should be able to see them on normal footage when others can't see them.

I believe in God because of evidence and firah. I believe in Islam because of the aforementioned also. The moment I let go of basing my views on evidence and reason as indispensable tools, barring accident of birth, I may have believed whatever and wherever. 

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Guest Itsme
28 minutes ago, Shams of tabriz said:


You have to increase your sama'at and basarat to see, hear and feel other creatures around us.

Seems like there are a lot of people with basarat in often uneducated regions of the world where superstition is rife, or among populations have some form of mental health problem which requires treatment. These creatures seem to respond quite well to medication designed to address the imbalance of neurotransmitters in the brain, or therapy. 

 

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2 hours ago, Guest Itsme said:

Where is the evidence that Imam al-Khomeini (may Allah bless his soul) had such powers to literally leave his body on his own command and explore the worlds of the unseen? I regard you  as an intelligent individual, and surely there should be a part of you that regards such narratives as highly questionable, if not farcical. 

It was my mistake in wording he said Ayatollah Behjat (رضي الله عنه) had this ability but ayatollah Behjat nor confirmed nor accepted it but until now his office doesn’t deny it .Imam Khomeini himself was a great Arif & spiritual & was a master in philosophy but political image of him caused that people ignore his other attributes of him 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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Guest Itsme
Just now, Ashvazdanghe said:

It was my mistake in wording he confirmed Ayatollah Behjat (رضي الله عنه) had this ability but ayatollah Behjat nor confirmed nor accepted it but until now his office doesn’t deny it .

This is a much better way to relay the details brother, I appreciate it.

So here are claims made about Ay.Bahjat(rh):

1. He could , by his will, leave his body and explore the world of the unseen.

2. He taught Jinns and could see them and other creatures of the unseen.

3. He could see people from behind him. (Heard this live)

4. He could vanish from one place and appear at another. (Heard this live). 

 

This is farcical. Absurd claims like this can drive people away from appreciating the true things about Ay.Bahjat, his piety and devotion to Allah, the Almighty, rather than completely absurd and ridiculous lies. 

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Salam,

Sometimes I am asking to myself "what is the purpose of a person seeing Angels or Jinns?"  The Prophet saw Angels and Jinns,  and there were reasons for it.

As for ordinary people like us, what would be the reasons?.  If to increase individual's belief then it is good, but it is highly personal and not for sharing with others.

When we all sit in majalis remembering Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) and Karbala, everyone has a vision in their heart and mind how the event took place.  That experience is unseen by others, but affecting our belief and emotion eventhough everyone has different visions.  Do we discuss with each our visions of the event?  Did we see Imam Hussain? Did we see his head on spear? We all saw...but we don't dare to describe or discuss at individual level.  We keep it to ourself.

The truth nature of Angels and jinns are not revealed to humans.  But, certain veiled images may likely to be seen by eyes of the heart or physical eyes.  Each person may get the vision differently.  And that vision is solely for him and not to expose it to others who are not familiar with subject matters.

If we talk to those who follow spiritual path, then their vision of realities are beyond descriptions.  

I do believe that there are people ( religious or not religious) are seeing entities that others don't see.  But, it is highly personal and only to discuss it with those who are familiar with that subject matters.

There are people here who believe Imams can see Angels, but there are those who believe Imams can.  Now, there are people who believe normal people can see Angels.  Maybe, when the moment of death, we will see who are coming to us and pull our souls from the body...the time when we can no longer can communicate to others.  

I do believe that we will witness what ever Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) said in Qur'an is the truth.  If we don't witness it now, we will witness it the very moment before we die.  That is moment we will say to ourself...return me back so I will repent and believe.  Too late then.

 

My conclusion:

1.  Those who have seen Angels and Jinns, there are purpose for it (e.g. our Prophet).  And they can discuss the significant of the issue.

2.  Some claimed they have seen the Jinns, then we should ask... the purpose? If they can't tell why and the purpose, then we should ask them not to discuss it in the public and just refer the matter with those who are familiar with the subject matter.

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13 hours ago, Guest Itsme said:

This is farcical. Absurd claims like this can drive people away from appreciating the true things about Ay.Bahjat, his piety and devotion to Allah, the Almighty, rather than completely absurd and ridiculous lies. 

Salam people always exaggerating about people like him but only thing that he personally said is that we must don’t afraid from jinns because some Muslim jinns said it to him that people don’t afraid from Muslim Jins   & also he said a story about coming Jins to him when he was in Najaf that they asked that they can consume from food garbage of people because after their contact with food it becomes harmful for humans so he forbids for them that they don’t consume remaining food of Shia Muslims in Najaf but the rest of attributes are controversial that I just said for record but I don’t confirm completely these atributes.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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15 hours ago, Guest Itsme said:

was under the impression not everyone can see these things, but only some, perhaps those with some special ability. Now you are showing me a video which allegedly has one of these creatures actually recorded for everyone to see.

Yes these things can be captured on video as well. We don't choose and construct lies and we don’t live in a box. We think outside the box. There is a reason why scholars interprate the religion to us. You are just making your own meaning out of everything with a closed mind. 

15 hours ago, Guest Itsme said:

among populations have some form of mental health problem which requires treatment. These creatures seem to respond quite well to medication designed to address the imbalance of neurotransmitters in the brain, or therapy. 

You are very rude and out of context here. You are trying to act educated but you are not. Anybody can google  scientific words such as neurotransmitters and that is probably what you did.

I have already explained to you about the scientific mental, chemical and electrical processes that are separate from the unseen aspects of religion but you are completely ignoring what we have told you.

Your behaviour is out of context. Unless we were having a engaging conversation on science then it would have been appropriate for you to be using these terms, you should not be shoving these words down our throats. It make you seem desperate and lonely because nobody is really talking to you from this perspective. You keep repeating yourself and being rude and out of context. You sound like a lonely little rude boy that needs a good spanking.  

I think you are the one that needs therapy. You need to find yourself a good therapists. I would suggest that you choose somebody you trust, therapy works best then because interpersonal communicate skills are most effective when we are relaxed and trust someone.

As far as neurotransmitters are concerned this is the electrical aspect I was explaining to you. Your neuro balance seems out of balance. I suggest you increase your four happy chemicals such as dopamine by eating foods that contain these chemicals such as dark chocolate, banana or strawberries and do certain activities such as swimming, taking a bath or simply getting busy and planning your day with more useful activities than bullying people on internet forums because it will increase these happy chemicals in your brain. 

May Allah subhana wa tala guide you. 

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Guest Itsme
39 minutes ago, Murtaza1 said:

.

Well brother Murtaza, I only critique ideas and I feel I do so fairly and am open to a reasoned argument contrary to what I believe. I know that challenging beliefs will often put me in the firing line of quite a lot of personal attacks and accusations, but we are both followers of the Ahlul Bayt and should try to keep this discussion academic and avoid going down that line. 

Imam Muhammed al-Baqir (عليه السلام) has said: "Satan keeps throwing animosity among the believers until one  of them forsakes his religion. When this happens, Satan stretches  down on his back and says, 'This is my victory.' May Allah  grant blessings to those who make peace between two of our  friends. O believing people, unite and be compassionate to each  other."' 

علي بن إبراهيم ، عن أبيه ، عن ابن أبي عمير ، عن ابن أذينة ، عن زرارة عن أبي جعفر عليه‌السلام قال إن الشيطان يغري بين المؤمنين ما لم يرجع أحدهم عن دينه فإذا فعلوا ذلك استلقى على قفاه وتمدد ثم قال فزت فرحم الله امرأ ألف بين وليين لنا يا معشر المؤمنين تألفوا وتعاطفوا.

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10 hours ago, layman said:

Sometimes I am asking to myself "what is the purpose of a person seeing Angels or Jinns?"

salam alaykom wrwb.

I feel you in regards to keeping it all in & private. reasons for sharing such has to do with trying to find better understanding of such subjects inasmuch as to clarify/get clarification. it is a culture of six toed creatures, pink creatures to invoke jinns & wreck havoc in other people's lives, for example, when they invoke say a jinn & use a person to accommodate that jinn, say a scotch toy, then use that jinn inside scotch to render a certain effect/outcome like breaking of a marriage? that nonsense culture is to be understood how when we don't share info or knowledge? also how do we reach a place of ease that all happens by the will of Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) when we don;t share. personally, I saw also these jinns, approx 8 in number ganging up on this jinn that they had sent initially only to find that the going is tough. we, humans are nothing without Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). sharing makes it easier, the load, mine & yours, belief is that load, trials are ours, jinns are not a major trial, just concealed in humans & over there & there.

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Guest Observer
On 4/4/2019 at 4:46 AM, Guest Itsme said:

What is the source for this particular claim brother? I thought the Aimmah can not actually see angels, so to they a corrupt Caliph saw them armed to the brim is very suspect. Was this narrated from a pulpit by one of the Zakiris? I have heard all sorts of claims, such as the twelfth Imam being taken up to the heavens by a bird that is allegedly Ruh al-Qudus, Zafer Jinn, and other myths.

Could you present the story, the source, and why you rely on it , either through its chain of narrators or other indicators that make you trust the narrative? 

"Allah will not leave the believers in the state in which ye are now, until He separates what is evil from what is good nor will He disclose to you the secrets of the Unseen. But He chooses of His Messengers (For the purpose) whom He pleases. So believe in Allah. And His messengers: And if ye believe and do right, ye have a reward without measure."

See here God is saying until person truly becomes purified he will not disclose secrets of the unseen.....meaning the option of being shown matters of the unseen is possible based on the purity of the person, so this is a real thing, and who are the believers? are they the Prophets or special elites or specific people in history? no rather they are everyone who has accepted truth and follows it, however the matters of unseen is reserved until a person attains purity so that he is not practising in one part of religion but ignoring other etc which is how majority of people probably 99.9% of Muslim today and in the past lived their lives, , very few crossed that threshold, but once they do, they can attain to see the unseen, which includes angels, jinn the heavens the hell and the attributes and names of God and things you don’t know about, but the option for anyone is there to see it

not exclusive to angels and Prophets rather purified people be they the general public or angels or Prophets or jinn

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Guest Observer
On 4/5/2019 at 12:31 AM, Mzwakhe said:

salam alaykom wrwb.

I feel you in regards to keeping it all in & private. reasons for sharing such has to do with trying to find better understanding of such subjects inasmuch as to clarify/get clarification. it is a culture of six toed creatures, pink creatures to invoke jinns & wreck havoc in other people's lives, for example, when they invoke say a jinn & use a person to accommodate that jinn, say a scotch toy, then use that jinn inside scotch to render a certain effect/outcome like breaking of a marriage? that nonsense culture is to be understood how when we don't share info or knowledge? also how do we reach a place of ease that all happens by the will of Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) when we don;t share. personally, I saw also these jinns, approx 8 in number ganging up on this jinn that they had sent initially only to find that the going is tough. we, humans are nothing without Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). sharing makes it easier, the load, mine & yours, belief is that load, trials are ours, jinns are not a major trial, just concealed in humans & over there & there.

You have been watching too many movies, scotch tape? what does that have to do with jinn? its nonsense

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They're not aliens but jinn that are trying deceive us into thinking they are aliens. Most jinn abductees believe that the "aliens" that abducted them are our gods and creators for some absurd purpose like mining gold or something of that sort...

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Guest Itsme
25 minutes ago, Ali883 said:

They're not aliens but jinn that are trying deceive us into thinking they are aliens. Most jinn abductees believe that the "aliens" that abducted them are our gods and creators for some absurd purpose like mining gold or something of that sort...

And where is the evidence for this dear brother? This isn't the most outlandish thing stated on this thread, so credit to you, but you need evidence. 

 

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29 minutes ago, Guest Itsme said:

And where is the evidence for this dear brother? This isn't the most outlandish thing stated on this thread, so credit to you, but you need evidence. 

 

It is quite obvious that they are jinns. It is common sense, you don't have to be a rocket science to realise this after all the shared experiences people report all around the world. I am a witness myself. 

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Guest Itsme

O followers of Muhammed and ale Muhammed (asws), followers of the most rational ideology on the face of this Earth and the only remaining remnant of the true message of the creator of the universe, aren't we better than to believe in spurious and fanciful things which are contrary to reason and evidence? 

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10 hours ago, Guest Itsme said:

O followers of Muhammed and ale Muhammed (asws), followers of the most rational ideology on the face of this Earth and the only remaining remnant of the true message of the creator of the universe, aren't we better than to believe in spurious and fanciful things which are contrary to reason and evidence? 

I agree with this. It’s true that mental illness can cause auditory and visual hallucinations. In fact, I think this might be true for the majority. 

However, I don’t think we can completely deny that some people might be able to see their existence by Allah’s will. Since we believe in Angels and in Jinns, it would make sense that a few would be able to see them. So how much of it is as result of mental illness and how much of it is due to Islamic belief? 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

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Believing in the paranormal usually surmounts down to the experiences you've had if you don't believe in the influence of the jinn over our dimension. Old mythologies, no doubt, all come from the paranormal being interpreted as acts of the divine onto our Earth. Look at the Hindu gods, the norse gods, roman gods, greek gods, gods of any pagan religion, you'll see that the beings in question that are being worshiped have a clear agenda of swaying people away from the one true God. Kabala and black magic are basically the opening of a dimension between our world and theirs which is why it's prohibited. The star of David has two triangles submerged together, one triangle aiming towards the heavens, which is our physical dimension and one towards the Earth which is the jinn's energy-based dimension and you'll clearly find this star everywhere if you read books about black magic. The Anunnaki are a good example of an "alien race" that people believe has created man. It's not so much a question of can the jinn interfere with us, but how much of their interference is influencing the major events in our world?

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16 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

I agree with this. It’s true that mental illness can cause auditory and visual hallucinations. In fact, I think this might be true for the majority. 

However, I don’t think we can completely deny that some people might be able to see their existence by Allah’s will. Since we believe in Angels and in Jinns, it would make sense that a few would be able to see them. So how much of it is as result of mental illness and how much of it is due to Islamic belief? 

I disagree with you because you should not separate supernatural experiences with sensory processes because they are part of the supernatural experience.

Auditory, visual, touch, smell, taste, information breakdown and categorization of information are internal processes that produce the supernatural experiences. Although some supernatural experiences may not require them such as dreaming. The concept of hallucination has no value in supernatural experiences and you should not say that people that hallucinate are mad. 

You have to realise that people associate 'mental illness' with negative aspects of brain malfunction because science tells them to think this way. We are falsely told to separate the mental processes with the supernatural aspects.

Science and the law tell us that somebody is dead based on certain predetermined conditions. How would the lay man know how to determine death if they were not told of these conditions? Brain dead patients are presumed dead when there is no signs of brain function, even if the heart beats and machines support the breathing, it determines in their books that brain cannot be resuscitated.Alternatively if the brain seems alive and there is no heart beat or breathing then sometimes resuscitation attempts are made but not always. Sometimes people are falsely pronounced dead when they are not. We should not base everything on science. It is the same with mental illness because we do not know everything about it.

The fact is that many medical practitioners have had supernatural experiences, as I did as well when I worked in a hospital. Some doctors have even written books about their experiences. You cannot also deny supernatural experiences shared by many Shiachat members in various discussionthreads. You cannot call us all mad in the sense of the brain or mind malfunctioning. Here are three discussion threads:

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235059860-jinn-witches-female-demon-and-fairy/?tab=comments#comment-3178824

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235061027-why-are-jinn-mostly-bad-angels-mostly-good-and-humans-so-different/?tab=comments#comment-3196797

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235060740-jinn/?tab=comments#comment-3192491

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On 4/8/2019 at 10:03 AM, Murtaza1 said:

I disagree with you because you should not separate supernatural experiences with sensory processes because they are part of the supernatural experience.

Auditory, visual, touch, smell, taste, information breakdown and categorization of information are internal processes that produce the supernatural experiences. Although some supernatural experiences may not require them such as dreaming. The concept of hallucination has no value in supernatural experiences and you should not say that people that hallucinate are mad. 

You have to realise that people associate 'mental illness' with negative aspects of brain malfunction because science tells them to think this way. We are falsely told to separate the mental processes with the supernatural aspects.

Science and the law tell us that somebody is dead based on certain predetermined conditions. How would the lay man know how to determine death if they were not told of these conditions? Brain dead patients are presumed dead when there is no signs of brain function, even if the heart beats and machines support the breathing, it determines in their books that brain cannot be resuscitated.Alternatively if the brain seems alive and there is no heart beat or breathing then sometimes resuscitation attempts are made but not always. Sometimes people are falsely pronounced dead when they are not. We should not base everything on science. It is the same with mental illness because we do not know everything about it.

The fact is that many medical practitioners have had supernatural experiences, as I did as well when I worked in a hospital. Some doctors have even written books about their experiences. You cannot also deny supernatural experiences shared by many Shiachat members in various discussionthreads. You cannot call us all mad in the sense of the brain or mind malfunctioning. Here are three discussion threads:

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235059860-jinn-witches-female-demon-and-fairy/?tab=comments#comment-3178824

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235061027-why-are-jinn-mostly-bad-angels-mostly-good-and-humans-so-different/?tab=comments#comment-3196797

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235060740-jinn/?tab=comments#comment-3192491

 

I agree.

One of the terrible consequences of Materialism has been that very strict lines have been drawn between the physical and consciousness, were consciousness is merely seen as a function of the physical. It's a very damning dogma to the potentiality of Scientific growth and causes much friction between different forms of science (like neurology to quantum physics to biologists to chemists etc). Consciousness becomes quite often the heat of the debate because it truly does transcend the material (the soul, that is, in our terms) and so does one's awareness of the spiritual realm between Earth and heaven - "dimensions" they're often called.

Materialists will just say that every and any kind of 'supernatural' experience one may have (including alien abductions, within modern myth...which I believe are non-physical) are simply just hallucinations - taking on hallucination in the strictly materialistic view of being non other than delusion caused by the brain. So that dogma will automatically discount the fact that people often hallucinate the exact same things, experiences that occur often between people of many different continents over extended periods of time. Not to forget that there is also the very mysterious phenomenon of the "shared hallucination".

There are also various "syndromes" and mental "disorders" that occur in certain types of people that hint at how our physical brain may be merely a filter or transmitter for our soul's experience in this world - being that we are deliberately made by Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) to only perceive a small percent of what is actually going on in this world (remembering that what we can physically touch is just one aspect of what is "there"), then also taking into account the whole debate over "dark matter". Bonnet Syndrome is one fascinating example, where people nearing dementia (which is basically where the body's receptors go back to being like a child, alluding to how the Soul may be mostly gone from the brain) see tiny people walking around and meet all kinds of people that aren't physically there. 

I used to be an Occultist way back before I converted to Islam and it is true that there are many, many types of rituals that you can perform (some over an extended period of time) that will connect your awareness with entities and so forth, and people often receive transmissions with entities as well. Occultism itself IS a Scientific practice in essence and there is a reason why it forms the basis of Science, yet there also are reasons why entity summoning etc is vehemently avoided being talked about at all within Mainstream Science itself. If it was accepted in current Scientific world though, it would affect the current Globalist agenda too much, so it's left in the fringe but it remains "there" so to speak. - keeping in mind, that Occultism itself is oneself seeking out supernatural experiences, through strict processes of ritual etc which is a different part of the spectrum to one encountering a Djinn for instance unprovoked.

Part of our entire purpose in this life is to recognize the illusion of this world and to not live for the world, but to live for and towards Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) (57:20), so at some point as a Muslim we  have to accept that there is far more going on around us than we realize but we have the free will to choose to follow Allah and keep our minds/hearts pure, or not. The mysteries of this life aren't as important to follow as the Qur'an and the Sunnah, but being able to recognize them for what they are is the best place to start.

For one though, materialism and Islam (as well as other serious religion that believes that life is more complex than the physical) does not work together!

Edited by HakimPtsid

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On 4/7/2019 at 1:51 PM, Ali883 said:

but how much of their interference is influencing the major events in our world?

yesterday some brother in creation said to me in a conversation, 'hey, are you still playing football, don't you know (he now points at these invisible things, calling them abomkhulu(grandfathers), not sure whose) that they don't you to play, you must take this ball & place in the ceiling, meaning I should give up.

all the while, I know am speaking to something other than him, so yes, they have interfered very much.

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Definitely, I already I know they have a large influence over our world, my question was merely a rhetorical one. Most of my research regarding jinn-human interactions is outside religious traditions and based on people's current experiences with them because most of the people who get these experiences tend to be non-religious anyways. But I remember hearing about Imam al-Baqir and a jinn story before so I pasted a link down to its tradition/s.

 

http://www.shiavault.com/books/commentary-of-suratul-jinn/chapters/9-selection-of-ahadith-from-al-usul-al-kafi-concerning-the-jinn 

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17 hours ago, Ali883 said:

I know they have a large influence over our world,

Salam they don't have a large influence over our world except we allow this to them like as Prophet Suleiman (عليه السلام) was ordering them to do significant works for him but they don't do anything by their wish but it's possible that nowadays some cults are allowing them to do more interaction with our world but they can't control them & they do some  many damages in regard of few works for them because these cults only can ask help from non beliver jinns that these jinns are followers of Shaitan & these cults are worshipin them & Shaitan but they can't ask help from Muslim jinns that just make good things for believers.

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Prophet Sulayman(عليه السلام) had 'Shayateen' under his command not just any jinns but He was a Prophet. We have poor control over our own selves, let alone control other beings. 

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3 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

cults only can ask help from non beliver jinns that these jinns are followers of Shaitan & these cults are worshipin them

That reminds me of the many horror movies made about black magic and jinn type entities in the early 20th century by a British film production company caller Hammer Films starring actor Vincent Price. Those films went deep into the occult and reminded me a lot of what is written in the Qur'an. 

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3 hours ago, starlight said:

Prophet Sulayman(عليه السلام) had 'Shayateen' under his command not just any jinns but He was a Prophet. We have poor control over our own selves, let alone control other beings. 

Imam Mahdi (aj) has full control over them it’s possible that he will use them as Prophet Suleiman (عليه السلام) but this time in whole world scale not a in particular land 

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Guest Itsme

While there is no doubt we believe in the world of the unseen, there is not a shred of evidence post-Prophet Muhammed (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) (and the Aimmah perhaps) anyone has had access to it in the way claimed on this thread.

Let me just turn focus to what some people on this thread are claiming

1. People on here have claimed they could see Jinns.

2. We know for a fact many of these could be trick of the light, explained neurologically or at worst, by some sort of mental health disorder.

3. Others have claimed only the very pious can see these things, and it would be interesting how they would respond to people on here claiming to visualise and see these. I also highly doubt Ay.Bahjat (rh) could leave his body at will, see behind his head, teach jinns and other fabricated myths made up about him.

4. They happen in all cultures and religions, often mirroring stories they were told.

 

The safest way to go? See a doctor, and say Allah knows best.

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Guest Itsme
6 hours ago, starlight said:

Prophet Sulayman(عليه السلام) had 'Shayateen' under his command not just any jinns but He was a Prophet. We have poor control over our own selves, let alone control other beings. 

Well said, and yet we have people on here claiming to have the keys to the unseen and to be able to see these things at will. Others have claimed Aliens are Jinns, and it would be nice to know just how many radical right wing Christians appearing on the UFO abducted series are pious on the level of the Ambiyaa to be able to see them.

I sometimes worry at just how easily convinced people are , and by extension if them following Shia Islam is based on an eye and heart for evidence or being born into it and that applies to me too. 

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