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In the Name of God بسم الله

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The hadith under discussion is this:

علي بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن النوفلي، عن السكوني، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال: قال أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام: بعثني رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله إلى المدينة فقال: لا تدع صورة إلا محوتها، ولا قبرا إلا سويته، ولا كلبا إلا قتلته.

And from `Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from an-Nawfali from as-Sakuni from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã. He said: Amir al-Mu’mineen Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã said: The Messenger of Allah Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå sent me to Madina, and said: Do not leave an image but that you have effaced it, nor a grave but that you have leveled it, nor a dog but that you have killed it. (translation from Qaim)

This report seems strange to me. First, we are allowed to keep dogs as pets for the purpose of hunting or guarding.  Also, the hadith mentions how Imam Ali was sent to destroy graves, which seems to imply that building shrines on graves is haram.

My question:

Should we not follow the Sunnah of the Prophet (s) and Imam Ali (a) by killing dogs and levelling shrines?

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4 hours ago, Follower of Ahlul Bayt said:

My question:

Should we not follow the Sunnah of the Prophet (s) and Imam Ali (a) by killing dogs and levelling shrines?

:salam:

If you are fine with killing animals just for the sake of it, or destroying the graves of your dead relatives, go ahead.

Otherwise just use reason and throw the hadith.

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8 minutes ago, realizm said:

:salam:

If you are fine with killing animals just for the sake of it, or destroying the graves of your dead relatives, go ahead.

Otherwise just use reason and throw the hadith.

That is not how Hadith studies work; unless you would otherwise concede that Sunnis are right when they say that Twelvers pick and choose and therefore cannot be trusted with preserving the Sunnah(?) 

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It is not haram according to most if not all Shi'a jurists for a person to kill a stray dog or a pig for no reason.

Also, you cannot buy a guard dog. A hunting dog is okay though.

Edited by Sumerian

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17 minutes ago, Ar.alhindi said:

That is not how Hadith studies work; unless you would otherwise concede that Sunnis are right when they say that Twelvers pick and choose and therefore cannot be trusted with preserving the Sunnah(?) 

Unless you want to fall into the same trap as the Sunnis who preserve a sunnah regardless of its humanity, you should use reason and admit that hadith compilation was always flawed.

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2 hours ago, Follower of Ahlul Bayt said:

The hadith under discussion is this:

علي بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن النوفلي، عن السكوني، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال: قال أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام: بعثني رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله إلى المدينة فقال: لا تدع صورة إلا محوتها، ولا قبرا إلا سويته، ولا كلبا إلا قتلته.

And from `Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from an-Nawfali from as-Sakuni from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã. He said: Amir al-Mu’mineen Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã said: The Messenger of Allah Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå sent me to Madina, and said: Do not leave an image but that you have effaced it, nor a grave but that you have leveled it, nor a dog but that you have killed it. (translation from Qaim)

This report seems strange to me. First, we are allowed to keep dogs as pets for the purpose of hunting or guarding.  Also, the hadith mentions how Imam Ali was sent to destroy graves, which seems to imply that building shrines on graves is haram.

My question:

Should we not follow the Sunnah of the Prophet (s) and Imam Ali (a) by killing dogs and levelling shrines?

some scholars said کلب is کَلِب that means rabid dog

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1 hour ago, realizm said:

Unless you want to fall into the same trap as the Sunnis who preserve a sunnah regardless of its humanity, you should use reason and admit that hadith compilation was always flawed.

You have to understand the wider implications, and it is a trap using your method rather than accepting what is authentic - using subjective emotion or ways of thinking to judge Hadith in spite of the Isnad causes two major issues:

1. Anyone can subsequently judge anything as inauthentic if they don't like it/it goes against their personal thoughts. This can lead to extreme deviance, refusal to follow the Sunnah, strange beliefs etc.

2. You may lose authentic teaching. Let us say for example that this Hadith or others were genuine statements from the Prophet SAW or Ali or anyone else, then you are losing their teachings and also could imply Kufr because you are disbelieving in what was taught because you don't like it or agree with it, so perhaps your opinion of the Prophet SAW or anyone else is higher or more extreme than is reality.

Such a methodology, if it has been employed by scholars, could well mean the Shi'ism practiced and understood today by the majority are just beliefs from arbitrarily selected Hadith based upon their own biases, in which case one should not follow Shi'ism; if it hasn't been employed by scholars, then you need to abandon this methodology lest you want to create a subsect of your own one day or otherwise become a Quranist.

Edited by Ar.alhindi

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25 minutes ago, Ar.alhindi said:

You have to understand the wider implications, and it is a trap using your method rather than accepting what is authentic - using subjective emotion or ways of thinking to judge Hadith in spite of the Isnad causes two major issues:

1. Anyone can subsequently judge anything as inauthentic if they don't like it/it goes against their personal thoughts. This can lead to extreme deviance, refusal to follow the Sunnah, strange beliefs etc.

2. You may lose authentic teaching. Let us say for example that this Hadith or others were genuine statements from the Prophet SAW or Ali or anyone else, then you are losing their teachings and also could imply Kufr because you are disbelieving in what was taught because you don't like it or agree with it, so perhaps your opinion of the Prophet SAW or anyone else is higher or more extreme than is reality.

Such a methodology, if it has been employed by scholars, could well mean the Shi'ism practiced and understood today by the majority are just beliefs from arbitrarily selected Hadith based upon their own biases, in which case one should not follow Shi'ism; if it hasn't been employed by scholars, then you need to abandon this methodology lest you want to create a subsect of your own one day or otherwise become a Quranist.

Or this could as well mean ahadith sources - Sunni or Shia - were inflitrated by external elements. 

In this optic it is not a matter of proving what sources are right since all can be proved to be corrupt. 

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4 hours ago, Sumerian said:

It is not haram according to most if not all Shi'a jurists for a person to kill a stray dog or a pig for no reason.

 

Islam doesnt allow deceiving, slapping or cursing an animal let alone killing it for no reason.

This is a famous quote from Imam Ali(a):

By Allah even if I am given all the domains of the seven (stars) with all that exists under the skies in order that I may disobey Allah to the extent of snatching one grain of barley from an ant I would not do it

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7 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

The Arabic says Al Madinah, so it's definitive.

Ok, so the question arises is that when did the Prophet (S) sent Imam Ali ((عليه السلام)) to Madina with such a mission? 

14 hours ago, Follower of Ahlul Bayt said:

The Messenger of Allah Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå sent me to Madina, and said: Do not leave an image but that you have effaced It, nor a grave but that you have leveled it, nor a dog but that you have killed it.

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