Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
notme

Feminine and masculine traits

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Damn, the comments of some of the women here reflect a serious case of position hungryness....to stand shoulder to shoulder with men. Why y’all so thirsty to compete with men. This is isn’t as big of a deal as you’re making it, O desperately competitive women.

Smh it’s scary to see how the toxic and self destructive ideas celebrated by modern society are starting to pollute the minds of some of our own.

Stay safe people, stay sane.

Edited by AStruggler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

I don't think 2t meant that there is any problem in obeying your husband. It's when women blindly submit to authority and think less of themselves. There needs to be a mutual agreement in every marriage. That's why it's important to address these sort of issues in our communities. Just because fiqh gives men some rights, it doesn't mean they develop this sort of arrogance and think they are always right. 

Brother I wasn’t saying anything to @2Timeless in that message of mine, I was just showing the other sister appreciation for her awesome comment.

Edited by AStruggler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, AStruggler said:

Damn, the comments of some of the women here reflect a serious case of position hungryness....to stand shoulder to shoulder with men. Why y’all so thirsty to compete with men. This is isn’t as big of a deal as you’re making it, O desperately competitive women.

Smh it’s scary to see how the toxic and self destructive ideas celebrated by modern society are starting to pollute the minds of some of our own.

Stay safe people, stay sane.

This is to bring awareness to you and other brothers what NOT to look for in a wife.  Don't just walk away, RUN!

Otherwise, you end up with a Thatcher and a Merkel, God forbid.  

M3 Salamah, Fe Amin Allah 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, AStruggler said:

This is isn’t as big of a deal as you’re making it, O desperately competitive women.

Using humour to avoid the question doesn't make your non-existent argument any more credible. 

Firstly, no one is making a big deal. It's just annoying to see our egotistical brothers think everything goes their way. All that is being said is that women have an equal mental capacity and that marriage is a partnership. Its not about who "wears the pants". What exactly do you disagree with brother? Do you disagree with the fact that husbands should not lead their wives like cattle? Do you disagree with the fact that a sensible man would discuss important decision with his wife and value her opinion? If you do, why don’t you just marry a doll? Would make life much easier for you. 

For those making immature statements, think about Imam Ali (عليه السلام). Did he ever do anything without taking Lady Fatima's (عليه السلام) opinion? Did he dismiss her so easily? Did he lead her without a thought as to her views? Think about the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) and Lady Khadija (عليه السلام). Did the Prophet treat his wife like property? No. Yes, the Imams were "heads" of the family but that does not mean they lead their women as if they were dolls. A strong man does not need to assert his power and dominance on a woman. Its quiet shocking to see that some of the supposedly married members here hold such mentalities. It is not compatible with the Qur'an or the ahl al bayt. It only originates from the Stone Age hunter-gatherer mentality. 

Here's a valuable life lesson: not everything is in black and white. You're not either a submissive little wifey or a dominant crazy masculine woman. And you're not either a little weak girly-man or a 'real ' strong powerful and dominant husband. These boundaries are just silly and immature. In a healthy marriage, a husband and wife make decisions TOGETHER. What's so hard to understand about that? They discuss things together. They take inti consideration each others views and opinions and make informed life decisions on that basis. In some cases, it will end up how the husband wanted, and some cases it will end up how the wife wanted. Hate to break it to you, but marriage is all about compromise. If you want a healthy marriage, you will compromise certain things. Most importantly, men will need to learn to get over their massive egos and that theres more to life than having the last say in everything. 

Also, please do not quote me or reply to this post unless you want to have a mature, civilised discussion. 

Edited by 2Timeless

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sumerian said:

Gheera isn't good for women. 

You're the second to mention this, but nobody picked up on the first a couple pages back. Please elaborate. 

This is exactly what I'm looking for: examples which disprove or discredit my hypothesis. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, notme said:

You're the second to mention this, but nobody picked up on the first a couple pages back. Please elaborate. 

This is exactly what I'm looking for: examples which disprove or discredit my hypothesis. 

well Imam Ali (عليه السلام) said it is iman for men and kufr for women. Thats all the evidence I need

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

well Imam Ali (عليه السلام) said it is iman for men and kufr for women. Thats all the evidence I need

That's fine, but I was hoping for examples. 

I can think of the example of a co-wife, in which jealous protectiveness over her husband against the other wife would be inappropriate, but shouldn't a mother jealously protect her young child? Perhaps the appropriateness of the trait is on its application, just like in the case of leadership? 

And if that is the case, the trait isn't the problem, the action is. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, notme said:

That's fine, but I was hoping for examples. 

I can think of the example of a co-wife, in which jealous protectiveness over her husband against the other wife would be inappropriate, but shouldn't a mother jealously protect her young child? Perhaps the appropriateness of the trait is on its application, just like in the case of leadership? 

And if that is the case, the trait isn't the problem, the action is. 

I think it only deals with wife and husband, which makes your example about co-wives correct and therefore proves why this trait is only good for men.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

I think it only deals with wife and husband, which makes your example about co-wives correct and therefore proves why this trait is only good for men.

Gheera only applies to a spouse, then? Can we talk more about the translation/definition of the word? My Arabic is minimal. 

Is it a trait, or a set of actions? 

Edited by notme
Added thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@notme  Sister apologies for derailing your thread but an explanation is in order.

Men and women come with different traits and together they form a team. As in all teams be it workplace, sports or home there can be only one captain, one leader which the others follow otherwise it will be a mess with no productivity or forward progression. Being a leader isn't just a privilege as it might appear to some people it is more of a responsibility and a burden. In the team comprising a husband and wife, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) made husband the leader. We do not need to debate on this,Qur'an 4:34 says it clearly who is the leader and who is the follower.

The problem comes when women see this obedience and submission as being weak or giving up control over their lives or as if they acting like feeble minded humans. I assure you that's not the case.

In submitting and obeying to your husband, you are making a conscious decision with a free will to follow the commands of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) .A strong, independent, smart women CHOOSING to follow what Allah says is anything but weak and unintellectual. 

By choosing you obey your husband, you and him become a team.Him the leader, you the team team member. You become his ally, his loyal companion and in doing so you do not give away your power. Instead his power also becomes your power and vice versa. You two join forces to battles the harsh dunya.

I can never understand why women assume obeying as giving up power. Maybe it's because women never know their real powers? Feminism has told women that real power lies in wearing the pants in the household and being CEOs in corporate world. Well, nothing wrong with the latter but greet your man with a smile when he comes back home after a long day of work, dress up nicely for him, wear some perfume, serve him a nice meal, tell him how important he is to you and see him go all powerless. See, you have the power now sisters :D  

Do Khadija, Fatima(عليه السلام), Zainab,Ummal Baneen, Lubaba appear as weak, powerless puppets of women to you? On the contrary, they were one of the most powerful women in the history of mankind. But see how they behaved with their husbands. Fatima(عليه السلام) gives birth to a daughter,O Fatima, what will you name her? "ask Ali, whatever he says"

Zainab wants to go to Karbala with Imam al- Husayn(عليه السلام), she asks her husband, will you give me the permission? Both Khadija and Lubaba were women who were independently managing the affairs of their lives before they got married to Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Abd al fadhl(عليه السلام) respectively. Look at their lives, how they behaved with their husbands and how their husbands cherished  and loved them in return. 

Women have SO MUCH power even by staying in the background, only if they realise.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, AStruggler said:

Damn, the comments of some of the women here reflect a serious case of position hungryness

image.png.36824210ca39f128f737ac87dda8217d.png

 

5 hours ago, AStruggler said:

Why y’all so thirsty to compete with men.

image.png.55c1dd399102ada17e57aea50960520c.png

 

5 hours ago, AStruggler said:

This is isn’t as big of a deal as you’re making it

image.png.6a33512f233db92193e6bc811f83e1c8.png

5 hours ago, AStruggler said:

O desperately competitive women.

image.png.fc76b790515994f77506d8843426b6ca.png

 

5 hours ago, AStruggler said:

self destructive ideas

damn... exaggeration is mainly a womans forte, but I think its really polluted the brains of men.

 

5 hours ago, AStruggler said:

Stay safe people, stay sane.

the worlds going to end?!!!!!!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, starlight said:

@notme  Sister apologies for derailing your thread but an explanation is in order.

Men and women come with different traits and together they form a team. As in all teams be it workplace, sports or home there can be only one captain, one leader which the others follow otherwise it will be a mess with no productivity or forward progression. Being a leader isn't just a privilege as it might appear to some people it is more of a responsibility and a burden. In the team comprising a husband and wife, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) made husband the leader. We do not need to debate on this,Qur'an 4:34 says it clearly who is the leader and who is the follower.

The problem comes when women see this obedience and submission as being weak or giving up control over their lives or as if they acting like feeble minded humans. I assure you that's not the case.

In submitting and obeying to your husband, you are making a conscious decision with a free will to follow the commands of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) .A strong, independent, smart women CHOOSING to follow what Allah says is anything but weak and unintellectual. 

By choosing you obey your husband, you and him become a team.Him the leader, you the team team member. You become his ally, his loyal companion and in doing so you do not give away your power. Instead his power also becomes your power and vice versa. You two join forces to battles the harsh dunya.

I can never understand why women assume obeying as giving up power. Maybe it's because women never know their real powers? Feminism has told women that real power lies in wearing the pants in the household and being CEOs in corporate world. Well, nothing wrong with the latter but greet your man with a smile when he comes back home after a long day of work, dress up nicely for him, wear some perfume, serve him a nice meal, tell him how important he is to you and see him go all powerless. See, you have the power now sisters :D

Do Khadija, Fatima(عليه السلام), Zainab,Ummal Baneen, Lubaba appear as weak, powerless puppets of women to you? On the contrary, they were one of the most powerful women in the history of mankind. But see how they behaved with their husbands. Fatima(عليه السلام) gives birth to a daughter,O Fatima, what will you name her? "ask Ali, whatever he says"

Zainab wants to go to Karbala with Imam al- Husayn(عليه السلام), she asks her husband, will you give me the permission? Both Khadija and Lubaba were women who were independently managing the affairs of their lives before they got married to Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Abd al fadhl(عليه السلام) respectively. Look at their lives, how they behaved with their husbands and how their husbands cherished  and loved them in return. 

Women have SO MUCH power even by staying in the background, only if they realise.  

Bismehe Ta3ala 

Assalam Alikum 

We need a reaction button for Mash'Allah! You got so much off my chest sister.  

Finally, the women of Ahulbayt used in the correct context and not some made up belief of our own illusions or whimsical notions.

#TeamDH

M3 Salamah, Fe Amin Allah 

 

Edited by Laayla
Hashtag team dear husband

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, starlight said:

You become his ally, his loyal companion and in doing so you do not give away your power. Instead his power also becomes your power and vice versa. You two join forces to battles the harsh dunya

Lol. How is that any different to what I have said? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

Lol. How is that any different to what I have said? 

I see a few people in this discussion whose views I find disagreeable, but most of y'all, I don't understand why you are arguing. As far as I can tell, this is a fairly non-controversial discussion. 

Reminder: I proposed a suggestion that stereotypically positive feminine traits are also positive in a man and stereotypically positive masculine traits are also positive in a woman. I asked for examples of traits which are exclusive to one gender (so far, none), and then I asked for examples of a character trait being positive in only one gender (so far, the only possibility is gheera, but that remains to be clearly defined). 

We aren't discussing negative traits such as greed, envy, gluttony, lust, etcetera, and it's not meant to be a comparison of who is superior or inferior. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, notme said:

don't understand why you are arguing. As far as I can tell, this is a fairly non-controversial discussion. 

It's not about what's being said, it's about who's saying it. As you may see, it's a trend on all other threads, some members feel the need to attack, mock and ridicule certain members when their comments are absolutely irrelevant. 

Either way, each to their own. Seems like an interesting thread and I apologise if I contributed to the derailment of it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

"However assuming she is married and comes home, she needs to be an obedient submissive little dolly that helps her husbands ego blast through the roof".

 

16 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

some members feel the need to attack, mock and ridicule certain members when their comments are absolutely irrelevant. 

:confused:

Ok pretty sure you literally did that to my on-topic comment.

Ah but it is "humour" when you do it 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

 

:confused:

Ok pretty sure you literally did that to my on-topic comment.

Ah but it is "humour" when you do it 

 

That literally had nothing to do with you and more with the general ideology discussed in the thread...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the reason why Non-Muslims look down upon us.They already gave equal rights to Women because of the Feminist Movement and here we are discussing about the Gender of Leaders.Marriage is a Partnership.Both Genders need patience.Patience is a virtue.Please do not pick out Imam Ali's quotes only when it suits you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...