Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Salam,

I came across the following tradition in Sahih Muslim and I wondered if Shia books of Hadis have recorded something similar.  Would appreciate if someone could shed light on it. Does Shia faith believe in the necessity of Sin, which is what this hadis implies?

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) having said:

By Him in Whose Hand is my life, if you were not to commit sin, Allah would sweep you out of existence and He would replace (you by) those people who would commit sin and seek forgiveness from Allah, and He would have pardoned them.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have not seen such a Hadith in Shi'a sources as such, but there are some traditions about selfishness, narcissism and self-satisfaction

There is a Hadith from Imam Ali(علیه السلام):
 سيئة تسوءك خير من حسنة تعجبك 

The sin that upsets you is better than doing the good thing that makes you satisfied with your self

Another hadith from Imam Sadiq(علیه السلام):
 إن الرجل ليذنب الذنب فيندم عليه، ويعمل العمل فيسره ذلك، فيتراخى عن حاله تلك، فلأن يكون على حاله تلك خير له مما دخل فيه 
Someone commit sin and regrets it
And he does a good thing that makes him happy and then this happiness makes him out of regret.

Whereas the previous state (ie regret of guilty) is better for the state it was entered into.

Edited by Sayed Hossein

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

another Hadith:
Allah knows that sin is better for a believer than narcissism and self-satisfaction of good deeds
And if it were not so, Allah would never allow believers commit the guilty.
 عَلِمَ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَ‏
أَنَّ الذَّنْبَ خَيْرٌ لِلْمُؤْمِنِ مِنَ الْعُجْبِ وَ لَوْ لَا ذَلِكَ مَا ابْتَلَاهُ بِذَنْبٍ أَبَداً.

 

also :

-عنه (عليه السلام) - في رجل يعمل العمل وهو خائف مشفق ثم يعمل شيئا من البر فيدخله شبه العجب به -: هو في حاله الأولى - وهو خائف - أحسن حالا منه في حال عجبه.
- عنه (عليه السلام): يدخل رجلان المسجد أحدهما عابد والآخر فاسق، فيخرجان منالمسجد والفاسق صديق والعابد فاسق، وذلك أنه يدخل العابد المسجد وهو مدل بعبادته وفكرته في ذلك، ويكون فكرة الفاسق في التندم على فسقه، فيستغفر الله من ذنوبه .
 الإمام علي (عليه السلام): ضاحك معترف بذنبه أفضل من باك مدل على ربه .

Edited by Sayed Hossein

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't seen this hadith in Shia sources. Actually, I highly doubt such a hadith is authentic. Here is why

First, Abu Huraira is known liar according to our Ulema (basically all of them say this). A hadith whose sole source is Abu Huraira and is not corroborated by other narrators who are reliable is not accepted by Jaafari Fiqh or in any other way. Full Stop

That is the Isnad, now let's look at the content of the hadith and apply some logic. The one's who didn't commit sins were the Masoom (Prophet and Imams((عليه السلام))). Our hadith are very clear that these were the most beloved by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). So, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) would sweep out of existence the Masoom, whom He(s.w.a) loved, and leave in existence the likes of us ? Makes no sense and there is no way to reconcile this with the thousands of Sahih and Mutawatir hadith that are opposite to this. This doesn't, of course, mean that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) does not love that his servants who sinned to ask for forgiveness. This is in Qur'an as well as hadith. 

But btw, we have hadith which are opposite of this. For example, there are many reliable hadith that say that whenever someone who calls himself a follower of Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)) and a follower of Imam Zaman(a.f.s) commits a sin, Imam Zaman(a.f.s) actually becomes disappointed and sad because of it. So why would Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) want us to do something that would make his Hujjat( proof on Earth)  sad ? 

To clarify, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) created us knowing that we would commit sins. It doesn't mean that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) wants us to sin. He gave us many tools and options to avoid sin, in order for us not to do sins. That is because Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) wants us not to sin, otherwise why would He(s.w.a) have guided us, sent Prophets, sent Qur'an, Dua, etc ? Also, when we do commit sins, we have a way to return to a pure state (spritiually) by doing Tauba (the process of asking for forgiveness). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

think in other way..... 

We found right route after we went in the wrong route ..... 

Mistakes are the secret of success...
Use your past memories..... 
Did you learn from mistakes and become a better person or you stayed stagnate without encountering problems in life and didnt do any mistake.... 

 You ll  become worse by not learning from mistakes.... 

Think in other way.... 
don’t give up this process.... Be honest to yourself.........

  #   Secret of Success 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/24/2019 at 12:44 AM, SyedOfBarha said:

Salam,

I came across the following tradition in Sahih Muslim and I wondered if Shia books of Hadis have recorded something similar.  Would appreciate if someone could shed light on it. Does Shia faith believe in the necessity of Sin, which is what this hadis implies?

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) having said:

By Him in Whose Hand is my life, if you were not to commit sin, Allah would sweep you out of existence and He would replace (you by) those people who would commit sin and seek forgiveness from Allah, and He would have pardoned them.
 

Beautiful Hadith.  Thanks for sharing.  

May God bless Abu Hurarya’s (رضي الله عنه) soul.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/24/2019 at 9:44 AM, SyedOfBarha said:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) having said:

By Him in Whose Hand is my life, if you were not to commit sin, Allah would sweep you out of existence and He would replace (you by) those people who would commit sin and seek forgiveness from Allah, and He would have pardoned them.

:bismillah:

There is no doubt that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) loves those who offer sincere repentance. There is no doubt that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) loves the Tawwaboon. But this hadith is mentioning the necessity of sin, and if majority of people wont sin Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) would replace them with people who sin repeatedly & then repent. I thought it is better to match the content of this hadith with the verses of Qur'an which are in my mind:

وَكَمْ قَصَمْنَا مِنْ قَرْيَةٍ كَانَتْ ظَالِمَةً وَأَنْشَأْنَا بَعْدَهَا قَوْمًا آخَرِينَ 
And how many a town which was iniquitous did We demolish, and We raised up after it another people! (21:11)

The above verse says various towns were demolished by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) because of the wrongdoings of people. It is not the sunnah of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to punish his servants who obeys His commands and avoid doing sins. Now lets see another verse:


هَا أَنْتُمْ هَٰؤُلَاءِ تُدْعَوْنَ لِتُنْفِقُوا فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ فَمِنْكُمْ مَنْ يَبْخَلُ ۖ وَمَنْ يَبْخَلْ فَإِنَّمَا يَبْخَلُ عَنْ نَفْسِهِ ۚ وَاللَّهُ الْغَنِيُّ وَأَنْتُمُ الْفُقَرَاءُ ۚ وَإِنْ تَتَوَلَّوْا يَسْتَبْدِلْ قَوْمًا غَيْرَكُمْ ثُمَّ لَا يَكُونُوا أَمْثَالَكُمْ
 Behold! you are those who are called upon to spend in Allah's way, but among you are those who are niggardly, and whoever is niggardly is niggardly against his own soul; and Allah is Self-sufficient and you have need (of Him), and if you turn back He will bring in your place another people, then they will not be like you. (47:38)

Here again replacement is mentioned but the newer generation will not be disobedient like the earlier ones. And now in last, the verse from chapter 5:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مَنْ يَرْتَدَّ مِنْكُمْ عَنْ دِينِهِ فَسَوْفَ يَأْتِي اللَّهُ بِقَوْمٍ يُحِبُّهُمْ وَيُحِبُّونَهُ أَذِلَّةٍ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أَعِزَّةٍ عَلَى الْكَافِرِينَ يُجَاهِدُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ وَلَا يَخَافُونَ لَوْمَةَ لَائِمٍ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ فَضْلُ اللَّهِ يُؤْتِيهِ مَنْ يَشَاءُ ۚ وَاللَّهُ وَاسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ
O you who believe! whoever from among you turns back from his religion, then Allah will bring a people, He shall love them and they shall love Him, lowly before the believers, mighty against the unbelievers, they shall strive hard in Allah's way and shall not fear the censure of any censurer; this is Allah's grace, He gives it to whom He pleases, and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing.(5:54)

And there are many verses in Qur'an which are in collision with the sunnah of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) mentioned in your quoted hadith. Now lets see the verses mentioning the repentance and compare this hadith with these verses:

إِنَّمَا التَّوْبَةُ عَلَى اللَّهِ لِلَّذِينَ يَعْمَلُونَ السُّوءَ بِجَهَالَةٍ ثُمَّ يَتُوبُونَ مِنْ قَرِيبٍ فَأُولَٰئِكَ يَتُوبُ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِمْ ۗ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ عَلِيمًا حَكِيمًا
Repentance with Allah is only for those who do evil in ignorance, then turn (to Allah) soon, so these it is to whom Allah turns (mercifully), and Allah is ever Knowing, Wise. (4:17)

وَلَيْسَتِ التَّوْبَةُ لِلَّذِينَ يَعْمَلُونَ السَّيِّئَاتِ حَتَّىٰ إِذَا حَضَرَ أَحَدَهُمُ الْمَوْتُ قَالَ إِنِّي تُبْتُ الْآنَ وَلَا الَّذِينَ يَمُوتُونَ وَهُمْ كُفَّارٌ ۚ أُولَٰئِكَ أَعْتَدْنَا لَهُمْ عَذَابًا أَلِيمًا
 And repentance is not for those who go on doing evil deeds, until when death comes to one of them, he says: Surely now I repent; nor (for) those who die while they are unbelievers. These are they for whom We have prepared a painful chastisement.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/24/2019 at 12:44 AM, SyedOfBarha said:

Salam,

I came across the following tradition in Sahih Muslim and I wondered if Shia books of Hadis have recorded something similar.  Would appreciate if someone could shed light on it. Does Shia faith believe in the necessity of Sin, which is what this hadis implies?

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) having said:

By Him in Whose Hand is my life, if you were not to commit sin, Allah would sweep you out of existence and He would replace (you by) those people who would commit sin and seek forgiveness from Allah, and He would have pardoned them.
 

The point of this hadith is to point to the fact that this whole show is about God's display of His mercy and His forgiveness, not our display of the effort to not sin and to do good.  It is not about us, it is about Him and the manifestation of His attributes.  Many urafa have written and elaborated on this hadith and similar ones like it (such as Jalal Al-Din Ar-Rumi, and Ibn Arabi).  And secondly one ought to be careful about slandering and defaming someone like Abu Hurarya (رضي الله عنه), one has no right to call him a liar just because a number of hadith he has reported don't seem to make sense to us and because our inability to comprehend how he could have possibly reported so many hadith in comparison to other reporters and in consideration of how little time he spent with the Prophet (S).  

Edited by eThErEaL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:bismillah:

Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 135:

وَالَّذِينَ إِذَا فَعَلُوا فَاحِشَةً أَوْ ظَلَمُوا أَنفُسَهُمْ ذَكَرُوا اللَّهَ فَاسْتَغْفَرُوا لِذُنُوبِهِمْ وَمَن يَغْفِرُ الذُّنُوبَ إِلَّا اللَّهُ وَلَمْ يُصِرُّوا عَلَىٰ مَا فَعَلُوا وَهُمْ يَعْلَمُونَ

And those who when they commit an indecency or do injustice to their souls remember Allah and ask forgiveness for their faults-- and who forgives the faults but Allah, and (who) do not knowingly persist in what they have done. (English - Shakir) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

It is not the sunnah of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to punish his servants who obeys His commands and avoid doing sins.

Thank you.  This is the key point.  And the verses you've quoted certainly contradict the Hadis.

Thanks to everyone else who replied with their thoughts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SyedOfBarha said:

Thank you.  This is the key point.  And the verses you've quoted certainly contradict the Hadis.

Thanks to everyone else who replied with their thoughts.

Salam,

those verses prove the Hadith in question because they are pointing to the same reality; that God loves to forgive and be merciful, and that He loves a people that turn to Him.  

I find it incredibly odd how a beautiful Hadith can be viewed in an entirely different way.

Edited by eThErEaL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

those verses prove the Hadith in question because they are pointing to the same reality; that God loves to forgive and be merciful, and that He loves a people that turn to Him.  

Salam, 

On 3/24/2019 at 8:44 AM, SyedOfBarha said:

By Him in Whose Hand is my life, if you were not to commit sin, Allah would sweep you out of existence and He would replace (you by) those people who would commit sin and seek forgiveness from Allah, and He would have pardoned them.

I think this hadith has been twisted as usually done in the Sunni hadith books.

I do think that this hadith would be mentioning the necessity of doing "astaghfar" or "towbah" instead of "comitting sins" and its content would be like this:

"If you were not to ask forgiveness, Allah would sweep you out of existence and He would replace you ......."

For "istaghfar" It is not necessary to commit sin. Commiting sins and not obeying the commands of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) have been condemned in several places in Qur'an.

وَمَا كَانَ اللّهُ مُعَذِّبَهُمْ وَهُمْ يَسْتَغْفِرُونَ 8:33 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

I find it incredibly odd how a beautiful Hadith can be viewed in an entirely different way.

I respect your point of view.  My first impression was the same as yours in that I was touched by the Hadis.  It highlights the importance of istaghfar and of Allah's mercy towards those who see istaghfar.  I am, however, trying to understand if sin is a necessity as is indicated by this Hadis.  From the Quranic verses shared above, necessity does not seem to be the case.  Allah wants us to avoid sin to the best of our abilities.  Why would he destroy someone if they reached the level of sinlessness?  Does Allah love the repentant sinner more than his humble servant who through hard work controls his nafs and reaches a state of sinlessness (or a level close to it)?

Allah knows best about the authenticity of particular narrations. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, SyedOfBarha said:

Does Allah love the repentant sinner more than his humble servant who through hard work controls his nafs and reaches a state of sinlessness (or a level close to it)?

1

Yes, that is the whole point.  He does love those who repent after sinning MORE than those who never have/will sin.  There is a secret in this.

This is precisely what made Iblis fall down.  He was the Master of worshippers, the Master of Following God's commandments... but he fell down because he was proud/arrogant due to the "perfect" slate he had as a doer of good deeds and as a "perfect" worshipper.  

 

Edited by eThErEaL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, eThErEaL said:

Yes, that is the whole point.  He does love those who repent after sinning MORE than those who never have/will sin.  There is a secret in this.

This is precisely what made Iblis fall down.  He was the Master of worshippers, the Master of Following God's commandments... but he fell down because he was proud/arrogant due to the "perfect" slate he had as a doer of good deeds and as a "perfect" worshipper.  

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/24/2019 at 10:14 AM, SyedOfBarha said:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) having said:

By Him in Whose Hand is my life, if you were not to commit sin, Allah would sweep you out of existence and He would replace (you by) those people who would commit sin and seek forgiveness from Allah, and He would have pardoned them.

Should one then sin to survive in this world? 

Sounds like 'Jesus died for our sins'. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/23/2019 at 11:44 PM, SyedOfBarha said:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) having said:

By Him in Whose Hand is my life, if you were not to commit sin, Allah would sweep you out of existence and He would replace (you by) those people who would commit sin and seek forgiveness from Allah, and He would have pardoned them.
 

Shi'a don't accept any Hadith narrated by Abu Huraira.

Secondly, sins are something which pollute our soul. Why would Allah want something that pollutes the purity of his creation? Also, isn't sinning a violation of the laws and guidance of Allah which always cause harm to either yourself or someone else? Why would that be encouraged?

Also, if sins are necessary then why are the Ahle Bayt (عليه السلام) free of sins? You can argue that they are free of sin because they chose not to indulge in sins but wouldn't that just confirm the invalidity of the Hadith?

This Hadith smacks of being an intentional lie designed to protect sinners by attempting to justify their flaws. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Akbar673 said:

Shi'a don't accept any Hadith narrated by Abu Huraira.

Secondly, sins are something which pollute our soul. Why would Allah want something that pollutes the purity of his creation? Also, isn't sinning a violation of the laws and guidance of Allah which always cause harm to either yourself or someone else? Why would that be encouraged?

Also, if sins are necessary then why are the Ahle Bayt (عليه السلام) free of sins? You can argue that they are free of sin because they chose not to indulge in sins but wouldn't that just confirm the invalidity of the Hadith?

This Hadith smacks of being an intentional lie designed to protect sinners by attempting to justify their flaws. 

 

41 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Should one then sin to survive in this world? 

Sounds like 'Jesus died for our sins'. 

Each and everyone of us are filled with sin from head to toe.  Your very existence is sin.  One doesn’t have to “try not to sin” unless you think you are a pure angel by default. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, SyedOfBarha said:

I respect your point of view.  My first impression was the same as yours in that I was touched by the Hadis.  It highlights the importance of istaghfar and of Allah's mercy towards those who see istaghfar.  I am, however, trying to understand if sin is a necessity as is indicated by this Hadis.  From the Quranic verses shared above, necessity does not seem to be the case.  Allah wants us to avoid sin to the best of our abilities.  Why would he destroy someone if they reached the level of sinlessness?  Does Allah love the repentant sinner more than his humble servant who through hard work controls his nafs and reaches a state of sinlessness (or a level close to it)?

Allah knows best about the authenticity of particular narrations. 

Allah loves a sinner who becomes humble and repents. Than those whose not sinning make them arrogant.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...