Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
ali_fatheroforphans

Justice of Allah - Important Read!!!

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Salam,

Unfortunately we have many people who are confused when it comes to the topic of justice. Polluted ideas and thoughts being spread by people who don't value faith. It is our duty to be rational and prove that Allah is just. 

Many people take a certain tragedy and say "look Allah is so evil, people are suffering and he is doing nothing about it". Let me say one thing! Allah does not do any evil act as he knows the value of good. There is absolutely no reason for God to do evil. In fact, Allah has not even created evil, rather he created creatures who misuse their faculties to do evil deeds. Allah is wise and all his works must display wisdom. People who claim that God is evil and cruel to his creatures, need to assume the following points:

(1) God is ignorant of the action and does not know that it is evil, nor does he know the effects of that action.

(2) God knows what he has done, but has been compelled to do it.

(3) It is necessary for God to do it although he knows it is evil (implying God is in need of something)

(4) God does it at his pleasure

Consider the following assumptions, and you'll realise how they are deficiencies and limit God. This is not the belief held by us, because we believe in a perfect God. 

God is never ignorant of an action as his eternal knowledge allows him to know the outcome. God can never be compelled to do an evil act as he is powerful. Allah is also not in need of anything, therefore it is not necessary for him to do evil to gain something, unlike humans who may do evil acts simply for power. Finally, Allah will never do something evil for pleasure, as he is not in need to seek pleasure, and he does not have emotions which change.

I just listed these rational proofs which have been provided by our great scholars. Just don't give in to the countless rubbish views that people are throwing at us! People just want to promote skepticsm and make all confused. Justice of Allah is the pillar of our faith, and you should be certain that we believe in a God who can't do evil.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

I just listed these rational proofs which have been provided by our great scholars. Just don't give in to the countless rubbish views that people are throwing at us! People just want to promote skepticsm and make all confused. Justice of Allah is the pillar of our faith, and you should be certain that we believe in a God who can't do evil.

Salam. Yes, God is Just and can do no wrong. This is a basic concept in Shia Islam. Allah does nothing without a purpose, and we might not understand His reasons for His actions, but we believe in Aslah, that everything He does is most beneficial according to His knowledge. 

https://www.al-Islam.org/justice-God-Sayyid-saeed-akhtar-Rizvi

Get PDF

Edited by Hameedeh
PDF link

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Salam,

There is absolutely no reason for God to do evil. In fact, Allah has not even created evil, rather he created creatures who misuse their faculties to do evil deeds.

 

Salam,

I also do not believe that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) created evil.

I would like to ask aphilosophical question, who created syaitans.  And syaitans are pure evil.

Wassalam.

Layman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, layman said:

Salam,

I also do not believe that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) created evil.

I would like to ask aphilosophical question, who created syaitans.  And syaitans are pure evil.

Wassalam.

Layman.

Salaam Aleikum,

Then how Evil came to existence when it is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) who have power to make all things happen. Evil is the conciseness of disobeying God, and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) gave human beings the will to disobey him, thus Evilness comes from conciseness of Human actions, but at the same time Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) actualize it. He says Be and It Is.

Edited by Abu Nur

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Salam,

Unfortunately we have many people who are confused when it comes to the topic of justice. Polluted ideas and thoughts being spread by people who don't value faith. It is our duty to be rational and prove that Allah is just. 

Many people take a certain tragedy and say "look Allah is so evil, people are suffering and he is doing nothing about it". Let me say one thing! Allah does not do any evil act as he knows the value of good. There is absolutely no reason for God to do evil. In fact, Allah has not even created evil, rather he created creatures who misuse their faculties to do evil deeds. Allah is wise and all his works must display wisdom. People who claim that God is evil and cruel to his creatures, need to assume the following points:

(1) God is ignorant of the action and does not know that it is evil, nor does he know the effects of that action.

(2) God knows what he has done, but has been compelled to do it.

(3) It is necessary for God to do it although he knows it is evil (implying God is in need of something)

(4) God does it at his pleasure

Consider the following assumptions, and you'll realise how they are deficiencies and limit God. This is not the belief held by us, because we believe in a perfect God. 

God is never ignorant of an action as his eternal knowledge allows him to know the outcome. God can never be compelled to do an evil act as he is powerful. Allah is also not in need of anything, therefore it is not necessary for him to do evil to gain something, unlike humans who may do evil acts simply for power. Finally, Allah will never do something evil for pleasure, as he is not in need to seek pleasure, and he does not have emotions which change.

I just listed these rational proofs which have been provided by our great scholars. Just don't give in to the countless rubbish views that people are throwing at us! People just want to promote skepticsm and make all confused. Justice of Allah is the pillar of our faith, and you should be certain that we believe in a God who can't do evil.

 

Great post, learned a lot reading it.

Edited by AStruggler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, layman said:

Salam,

I also do not believe that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) created evil.

I would like to ask aphilosophical question, who created syaitans.  And syaitans are pure evil.

Wassalam.

Layman.

Evil is something ugly done with ones actions and intentions. Since djinn have freewill their creation was not evil rather those evil doers did evil, same for a human hence all creation has a good and purpose. Evil an attributable only to something that has done evil with its freewill. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, layman said:

I would like to ask aphilosophical question, who created syaitans.  And syaitans are pure evil.

 

I hope this helps


039:62  "Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is, over all things, Disposer of affairs."

In the Qur'an: ...
007.27 Verily We have made the Shaitans to be the guardians of those who do not believe. 
002.030 YUSUFALI: Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on Earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- 
113.001 SHAKIR: Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of the dawn,
113.002 SHAKIR: From the evil of what He has created,


In the Bible: 
I form the light, and create darkness: make peace, and create evil : I the LORD do all these things.(Isaiah 45:7) 

ws.

*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By the names of Allah, the Rahman, the Raheem

6:59. And with Him are the keys of the unseen,none knows them except  Him And He knows what is on the land and in the sea. And not a leaf falls but He knows it. And there is not a grain in the darkness of the Earth and not anything moist or dry but is written in a Clear Record.

6:67. For every occurrence there is a pre-determined and specific time... You will know soon!

[22:76] He knows their past and their future. To Allah belongs the ultimate control of all matters.

57:22. No disaster befalls on the Earth nor in your own Nafs, but it is in a book before We bring it into existence; surely that is easy to Allah: 

On 3/21/2019 at 7:23 PM, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Salam,

Unfortunately we have many people who are confused when it comes to the topic of justice. Polluted ideas and thoughts being spread by people who don't value faith. It is our duty to be rational and prove that Allah is just. 

Many people take a certain tragedy and say "look Allah is so evil, people are suffering and he is doing nothing about it". Let me say one thing! Allah does not do any evil act as he knows the value of good. There is absolutely no reason for God to do evil. In fact, Allah has not even created evil, rather he created creatures who misuse their faculties to do evil deeds. Allah is wise and all his works must display wisdom. People who claim that God is evil and cruel to his creatures, need to assume the following points:

(1) God is ignorant of the action and does not know that it is evil, nor does he know the effects of that action.

(2) God knows what he has done, but has been compelled to do it.

(3) It is necessary for God to do it although he knows it is evil (implying God is in need of something)

(4) God does it at his pleasure

Consider the following assumptions, and you'll realise how they are deficiencies and limit God. This is not the belief held by us, because we believe in a perfect God. 

God is never ignorant of an action as his eternal knowledge allows him to know the outcome. God can never be compelled to do an evil act as he is powerful. Allah is also not in need of anything, therefore it is not necessary for him to do evil to gain something, unlike humans who may do evil acts simply for power. Finally, Allah will never do something evil for pleasure, as he is not in need to seek pleasure, and he does not have emotions which change.

I just listed these rational proofs which have been provided by our great scholars. Just don't give in to the countless rubbish views that people are throwing at us! People just want to promote skepticsm and make all confused. Justice of Allah is the pillar of our faith, and you should be certain that we believe in a God who can't do evil.

 

Allah knows everything, nothing (evil or good) happens without his permission.

We only witness it.

Edited by Raheel Yunus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/21/2019 at 5:23 PM, ali_fatheroforphans said:

God is never ignorant of an action as his eternal knowledge allows him to know the outcome. God can never be compelled to do an evil act as he is powerful. Allah is also not in need of anything, therefore it is not necessary for him to do evil to gain something, unlike humans who may do evil acts simply for power. Finally, Allah will never do something evil for pleasure, as he is not in need to seek pleasure, and he does not have emotions which change.

I just listed these rational proofs which have been provided by our great scholars. Just don't give in to the countless rubbish views that people are throwing at us! People just want to promote skepticsm and make all confused. Justice of Allah is the pillar of our faith, and you should be certain that we believe in a God who can't do evil.

the evil problem is a old and has long history .
almost all philosopher faced with this problem and I think this issue has hight impact in faith,
our belief is obvious and as you mentioned Gad do not do evil at all 

but the problem is "God is creator of all thing in the word and we face with many evils", how can justify this paradox ?

our answer of this paradox are following points :

1-there is no intrinsic evil but we in the world there are clashing and encountering in benefits, prerequisite

for example coldness is not bad and some time is necessary but if we encounter with  coldness , because of our body's nature ,may causes for our body evil
so there clash of benefits not evil in general view 

2-some evil is caused by bad chooses  of human's freewill, but God's righteousness does not allow the cruel  and oppressed to be equal in the end, so he will compensate in other way
3-if one creature has 30% evil and 70% good , God will do this because degree of good is more and God will not give up good actions for less degree of evil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam,

This is a philosophical discussion.  Anyone can agree or disagree.  

I believe that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) allows evil to happen when humans or jinns create (through intention and action) it through their free wills.  But Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) does not originate it.  All evils originated from humans and jinns who opposed Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) or cover the truth.

Iblis disobeyed Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) using his own logics.  Iblis belief and action has created an entity that is called "syaitan".  Iblis was the first to create and breed syaitans.  Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) allows syaitans to exist as an entity and can live in Iblis and outside (but we cannot see through physical eyes).  Syaitans can penetrate and tell was-was to humans and jinns. Syaitans are pure evil, or pure darkness, and no goodness in it at all.

Can syaitans breed and live on?  Even though the creator of syaitans maybe dead, these syaitans will live on if the evil belief that created these syaitans on the first place is still part of human practice, .  The more people believe in that belief the more syaitans are produced.

For example, the zionist believe that they own the world.  In itself is a new belief (may become a religion among Israelis) that opposes the truth, and it is satanic in nature.  There will be real syaitans that born from this belief.  Now these syaitans have infiltrated the media and have influence on the people of the world through their wealth.

The same with US administration that Imam Khomeini has called them as "Big Satan".  Now the satan has grow bigger and killing Muslims together with the cooperation of many other breeder of syaitans (Zionist and Wahabbi from Ahlul Saud).

We also can create or breed syaitans in ourselves if we have jealousy, bad intention, or lack of sincerity to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and Ahlulbayts.  There was a sayings, if there are no syaitans roaming in our heart, we will see the real government of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) (through our heart).

There are so many ideologies created by humans and each one has created specific type of syaitans.  These syaitans came to life and alive even though we can't see with our physical eyes. To name a few: Arab nationalism,   marxism,  white supremacy , Isis, Islamophobia, ... so on.  Syaitans are breed more and more through internet such pornography, entertainment, musics, drugs....so on.  If we get influenced and accepted it, we ourselves breed more syaitans and be their followers.

Can we kill these created syaitans that have many human followers? We have to kill the ideology for those syaitans to be eliminated.  This process is not easy because we cannot simply kill humans that subservient to and believe in these ideologies or their infrastructures....let say US imperialism and pornography. .  We have to fight them through worldly ways such intellectual means, good aklaq, financial means, research, modernization, knowledge, technology, unity, human rights...so on.  Good aklaq can weakened syaitans that exist in those people that interface with us.  We can read duas to strengthen our shield for our souls from syaitans.  Humans have to be united in believing in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to fight syaitans.  We need the helps from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  

Muslims also have created their first grand syaitans when Rasul said "give me pen and paper that I will write to you so that Muslims will not go astray", the first group of grant syaitans were born because so called sahabahs disobeyed the directive. Many more grand syaitans were born during saqifah, Jamal, Siffeen, Karbala...and finally so many of these syaitans around today in Muslim world that we cannot see with our physical eyes.  We fight and kill each other because our souls are directly controlled or polluted by there syaitans. Bear in mind, I did not said so-called sahabahs are syaitans, rather their actions on preventing the ummah from astray, had created the new ideology that against Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), and grand syaitans were born from this event.  Yazid was totally controlled by Syaitans.

We might not see these syaitans by our physical eyes, but there people (with Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) permission) that can see them.

Syaitans are now ruling majority of people on the Earth especially leaders of many countries.  Syaitans have enough physical wealth and weapons by controlling certain leaders  to kill anyone on this planet.  Syaitans by themselves cannot kill, but when humans take syaitans (unknowingly or knowlingly) into their souls through their deviated ideology , Muslims will be killed.  Saudis are killing Yemenis on daily basis.

Can we kill syaitans? The weapons that can kill syaitans are still mystery to many of us.  But Muslims can shield our souls from syaitans by be sincere to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and following Ahlul Bayt.  On the physical side, we need to be united with leaders that are direct fighting satanic leaders.  Of cause, the main Leader for us to follow is Imam Mahdi (عليه السلام), and also those leaders that align with Imam Mahdi (عليه السلام).

In summary,

1.  Humans and jinns can create syaitans through evil intentions and actions at any time.  Allah allows syaitans to exist as an entity.  Syaitans can only give was-was to other humans.  Syaitans are weak by nature.  Once human believe in it, syaitans are their master or guardian.  Then syaitans are no longer weak.  Humans and jinns make syaitans powerful.  Repentance will put syaitans in jails.

2.  Syaitans will live on and breed as long as humans believe on wrong and evil practices that were created earlier.

3.  Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) did not created syaitans but humans and jinns are their creator though evils intentions and actions, but Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) allows syaitans to exist as an entity (separate from humans and jinns).  The same thing that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) allow humans to create running machines using their mind in physical world.  We can create syaitans in unseen world just by our evil belief, intention and actions.

Wallahualam

Layman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is inconsistent with reasoning to call Allah as unjust. All the wise people, religions and the ruling States have very clearly codified the just and the unjust. We all consider as unjust the attempts to intervene in the sovereignty and authority of someone’s possession or justifiable freedom from outside. It becomes justifiable if the intervening is done by the person concerning his possession or rights by himself. All true religions, specially the verses of the Qur'an declare that only Allah exist uniquely and nothing else. All that exist is the manifested form of Allah. If Allah is the life, form, owner and the director of this manifested form, how can one consider that Allah is unjust to his own existence!

The creation is owned by Allah and he has absolute sovereignty over his creation. Allah has absolute freedom to do whatever he wants with his creations. There is nothing just or unjust about it. It is only a tradition to call Allah just. If there is no unjust, just cannot exist. Allah is absolutely free from all limitations of just and unjust. Just and unjust are the characteristics of the creations.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really wish if the emphasis were more on God’s mercy rather than God’s justice.  Shias tend to be so concerned about God’s Justice even though the Duas of the Imams talk about seeking God’s mercy instead of His justice.  There are plethora of Hadith that tell us that God’s mercy precedes His justice.  There are verses of the Qur'an that point to how God has compelled Himself to be Merciful and the Qur'an itself starts off introducing God as Merciful (not Just).   Isn’t this ironic?  

Where did this overwhelming concern for God’s Justice arise?  Well we all know where it came about.  It was a mixture of something political and theological.  

In any case, the Justice of God implies that creation not exist at all, since justice dictates that only the Real (al-Haq) should exist and falsehood (batil) should not exist.  It is only because God’s mercy precedes His justice that the creation (other than God) exists.

 

Edited by eThErEaL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@eThErEaL

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum brother 

When Shias ask for Justice of God, it is towards the enemies of Islam and all those who oppressed AhulBayt, and the tyrants.

However, when it comes towards Muslims, Mo2mneen, and ourselves, of course we plead to God for His Mercy.

Everyday we ask during salat, when reading Qur'an, and we say :bismillah:

 

1. al-Fatihah: The Opening

1 In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

 

2 Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,

 

3 The Beneficent, the Merciful.

 

4 Master of the Day of Judgment,

 

5 Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.

 

6 Show us the straight path,

 

7 The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People need to learn about the principles of tawheed especially the third principle called Tawheed ul Afhad about unity of deeds. It tells us that Allah subhana wa tala gives us the power and free will to do as we wish. When we mususe this power it is because of our own choice and we end up with evil. It is a test for us. Also when innocent people suffer it is a blessing for them in disguise. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Observer
On 3/22/2019 at 12:53 AM, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Salam,

Unfortunately we have many people who are confused when it comes to the topic of justice. Polluted ideas and thoughts being spread by people who don't value faith. It is our duty to be rational and prove that Allah is just. 

Many people take a certain tragedy and say "look Allah is so evil, people are suffering and he is doing nothing about it". Let me say one thing! Allah does not do any evil act as he knows the value of good. There is absolutely no reason for God to do evil. In fact, Allah has not even created evil, rather he created creatures who misuse their faculties to do evil deeds. Allah is wise and all his works must display wisdom. People who claim that God is evil and cruel to his creatures, need to assume the following points:

(1) God is ignorant of the action and does not know that it is evil, nor does he know the effects of that action.

(2) God knows what he has done, but has been compelled to do it.

(3) It is necessary for God to do it although he knows it is evil (implying God is in need of something)

(4) God does it at his pleasure

Consider the following assumptions, and you'll realise how they are deficiencies and limit God. This is not the belief held by us, because we believe in a perfect God. 

God is never ignorant of an action as his eternal knowledge allows him to know the outcome. God can never be compelled to do an evil act as he is powerful. Allah is also not in need of anything, therefore it is not necessary for him to do evil to gain something, unlike humans who may do evil acts simply for power. Finally, Allah will never do something evil for pleasure, as he is not in need to seek pleasure, and he does not have emotions which change.

I just listed these rational proofs which have been provided by our great scholars. Just don't give in to the countless rubbish views that people are throwing at us! People just want to promote skepticsm and make all confused. Justice of Allah is the pillar of our faith, and you should be certain that we believe in a God who can't do evil.

 

I think this point of evil is misconstrued, think about it this way

when bacteria enter your body, they make u ill and sick and you suffer and you can’t function so hence you do all that you can to remove this bacteria , so technically and in the frame of reference to bacteria ur doing evil by killing them, but in reference from u to the bacteria ur doing good or the doctor is doing good by killing the bacteria or finding ways to kill the bacter hence he is praised in society or whatever is developed is looked at as "good", but from the bacteria point of view all they want to do is live and survive like u and meand they are not intending you harm but they are just doing what they are made to do , I can use alot of examples here and analogies to repeat this statement

but even things that are considered evil here are not going to be evil for example in after life, so its all a point of reference according to which system it works in, so in reality there is no evil everything is just functioning as it is supposed to, and what we define as evil and good is related tot he system we are in and what purpose we have in that system

however the difference being that we were put in a world where things eliminate each other, God of course could create a world where nothing has to die or suffer but due to the intention of why we are here then we live in such a world and related to other things we define things evil or good, but in reality there is no evil or good

things have to die in this world, thats the mechanics of this world, a lion hunts a gazelle in order so that it can eat and live , one has to die for another , either the lion goes against its nature or kills the gazelle, we kill sheeps and goats and chickens in order to eat, heck we even kill plants in reality, the plants don’t want to de clearly their mechanism shows they are striving to live and sprout etc , but does it have to be that way, are we evil related to the chickens and goats and sheep? do they look at us as some evil dictator crazy oppressors that hate them and just want to kill them all and when we give them food its all a trick just to make their meat more tasty so that in the end we will kill them and eat them

but the system that we live in this is required death and suffering and somebody getting over the other, so related to how much it hurts us or gains us it is defined evil or good, but in reality it is neither

this is just the way the system is for this purpose of existence, however what has not been changed is the environment what we are originally created to live in, so the way we function has been left as is, that desire for whatever , the nafs the drive is still as if we are living in heaven , but here what has been turned is that instead of giving u benefit from following ur nature, it instead give u destruction and death , and what was commanded was resistance to our own self(self sacrifice) in order to show dedication and adoration to Him

so the whole concept of evil and good doesnt exist, nothing is evil nothing is good, everything is functioning as it has been told to function, the only time it can turn bad is if it stops functioning as it is supposed to, when it goes against its nature when it hasnt been commanded to, it turns bad, but this quickly causes its own self destruction, like as if it activates a self destruct button

this is a deeper discussion of the nature of good and evil, I hope nobody misunderstands me and says that I am saying that there is no haram and no evil and anything goes

the point was that in its true reality essence going back to its roots, nothing is evil, the only time things fall into these categories is when things are compounded to function in a certain way in some system, and actually that systems mechanism defines what is evil or good, based on the purpose of that system/mechanism based on what God created it to do

so hence God never creates evil, if anything is create for some functionality and it carries out its functionality then it is simply functional , thats all, if it stops carrying out its functionality then it becomes "bad" and hence by its own nature it will self destruct because its existence relies on its natural functionality

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Guest Observer said:

so the whole concept of evil and good doesnt exist, nothing is evil nothing is good, everything is functioning as it has been told to function, the only time it can turn bad is if it stops functioning as it is supposed to, when it goes against its nature when it hasnt been commanded to, it turns bad, but this quickly causes its own self destruction, like as if it activates a self destruct button.

Like the destruction of aad samood and firaun etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...