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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Prophet Mohammed's bani Israel Roots?

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Salam,

Lately I have been researching about the lineage of Prophet Mohammed's ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) from his maternal grandfather called Abdul Mutalib.

Abdul Mutalib's mother (Salma bint Amr) is from Bani Najjar, and from what I found it seems that she is from a Jewish tribe. Does anybody know more about this?

Thanks

 

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Salam from your previous posts I think you want to participate in zionist Jewish prophecies like helping to building of third temple & etc anyway Prophet Muhammad always mentioned that he is completely from Ismail branch only Imam Mahdi (aj) has jewish roots.

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1 hour ago, Shia farm girl said:

Can you expand a little about Imam Mahdis Jewish roots? I find that very intrig

His mother is from descendants of peter the true successor of Prophet Isa (a) but before him all  Imams & Prophet Muhammad  (pbu) we’re from descendants of Ismael/Ishmael (عليه السلام) until by marrying 11th Imam (عليه السلام) with Lady Narjis (a) from descendants of saint peter bloodline of sons of Ismael & ishaq joined toghether .

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Narjis_(a)

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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12 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

His mother is from descendants of peter the true successor of Prophet Isa (a)

I always read how James was the true successor, founder of the Nazarene Church of Jerusalem (a more "Jewish" Christianity which still kept the Law), as opposed to the Gentile church of Peter and Paul, which would be Catholicism.

James as founder of the Jerusalem church makes a lot more sense, as Peter founded the Church in Rome and preached to Gentiles, which Prophet Eesa (عليه السلام) didn't do - he was sent specifically to Bani Israel, not universal like Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)

Although an Ismaili site, this is probably more accurate:

https://ismailignosis.com/2019/01/25/the-imamat-of-james-brother-of-jesus-successor-of-christ-leader-of-early-christianity/

 

Also the wikishia link you posted mentions at the end why the narration has not been universally accepted among Shia scholars.

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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36 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Also the wikishia link you posted mentions at the end why the narration has not been universally accepted among Shia scholars.

They don’t agree that she was white Roman as eastern Roman prince or black African from north of Africa but all agree that she were from descendants of Saint Peter alsoIsmailis are trying to adopt their ideas with other Christians as Aghakhani Ismailis take rein reincreation idea from Hinduism & Buddhism so their idea is not accurate & just godfor acceptance by Europeans as they try to make digeist & accept in European countries like as Purtogal so they adopt their ideas with Christians in Portugal & Spain & beside that prove their idea of imammateof Ismail Grand son of Imam Sadiq by a text that is not accepted by all Christians & Sheikh tusi Hadith doesn’t match with Ismail the grand son of Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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10 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

They don’t agree that she was white Roman as eastern Roman prince or black African from north of Africa but all agree that she were from descendants of Saint Peter alsoIsmailis are trying to adopt their ideas with other Christians as Aghakhani Ismailis take rein reincreation idea from Hinduism & Buddhism so their idea is not accurate & just godfor acceptance by Europeans as they try to make digest & accept in European countries like as Purtogal so they adopt their ideas with Christians in Portugal & Spain 

Peter was the first Pope of the Catholic Church, they became the dominant church which persecuted the "unitarian" Nazarenes into near extinction.

James being the true successor has little to do with Ismaili beliefs, it was just an article with an Islamic perspective of James. You can find other literature on James being the rightful successor, but became overshadowed by the Gentile (non-Jewish) Church.

I don't see how Peter and his companion Paul could be the rightful successors when James was closer to Jesus than either of them and kept the early Judaic roots rather than changing the religion as we know it today.

 

Quote

“Jewish Christian movement that existed during the early centuries of the Christian Era. They regarded Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah while rejecting his divinity and insisted on the necessity of following Jewish law and rites. The Ebionites used only one of the Jewish Gospels, revered James the Just, and rejected Paul the Apostle as an apostate from the Law.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/monkeymind/2017/10/james-just-first-bishop-jerusalem-jesus-brother-successor.html

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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16 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

don't see how Peter and his companion Paul could be the rightful successors when James was closer to Jesus than either of them and kept the early Judaic roots rather than changing the religion as we know it today.

Peter & Paul were always against each other also peter position forgot or censored by followers of Paul

also succeessorship of a Prophet (عليه السلام) like as Imamate doesn’t transfer by close relationships like as successor of Prophet Solomon was a person that didn’t has any close relationship to him that it happened for Prophet Isa (عليه السلام) as we know he doesn’t has a father so mentioning a person as his brother has very weak base but Allah honored progeny of Prophet Muhammad (pbu) & from them progeny of Imam Hussain( as) to be successors & Imams that their names & attributes announced by Allah to Prophet (pbu) that he teach them to some close companions like as Jamir Ibn Abdullah Ansary that before that the matter of people from descendants of Imam hussain(عليه السلام) lie as Jaffa Kadhab talked before also Imam Kadhim (عليه السلام) & Imam Java (عليه السلام) proved their Imamate from their similarities to prophethood of Prophet Isa (عليه السلام) from childhood.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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1 minute ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Peter & Paul were always against each other also peter position forgot or censored by followers of Paul

also succeessorship of a Prophet (عليه السلام) like as Imamate doesn’t transfer by close relationships like as successor of Prophet Solomon was a person that didn’t has any close relationship to him that it happened for Prophet Isa (عليه السلام) as we know he doesn’t has a father so mentioning a person as his brother has very weak base 

James allegedly being brother of Jesus is a side issue and does not discount the fact that he was head of early non-Trinitarian Christianity, which did not regard Jesus as divine and followed the Law.

Peter as I said preached to Gentiles, whilst the sect of James was only for Bani Israel, as Jesus was sent specifically to them.

The church in Rome was universal and believed Jesus was sent for mankind etc

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3 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

James allegedly being brother of Jesus is a side issue and does not discount the fact that he was head of early non-Trinitarian Christianity, which did not regard Jesus as divine and followed the Law.

 

If we accept term of brother for Prophet Isa(عليه السلام) so we can choose term of child for him as it mentioned in Christian sources also mentioned by story books like as Davinci code that supports idea of his marriage & having a child 

 

5 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Peter as I said preached to Gentiles, whilst the sect of James was only for Bani Israel, as Jesus was sent specifically to them.

It’s based on Christianity doctrine so has no real value also we have Banabas gospel that not accepted trinity like as James & not accepted by collectors of current gospel & founders of current Christianity 

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20 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

If we accept term of brother for Prophet Isa(عليه السلام) so we can choose term of child for him as it mentioned in Christian sources also mentioned by story books like as Davinci code that supports idea of his marriage & having a child  

That's my point, we do not need to accept he was the biological brother. It is a seperate issue to discuss. However, James was the founder of the Jerusalem Church, a monothiestic early "Christianity" predating Catholicism.

22 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

It’s based on Christianity doctrine so has no real value also we have Banabas gospel that not accepted trinity like as James & not accepted by collectors of current gospel & founders of current Christianity 

Gospel of Barnabas was widely deemed a hoax. Most Muslims of today no longer refer to it in debates with Christians.

My main argument is that it is very debatable as to whether Peter was the "true sucessor" as you so boldly stated, and from my understanding James was moreso a successor than the others.

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19 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

My main argument is that it is very debatable as to whether Peter was the "true sucessor" as you so boldly stated, and from my understanding James was moreso a successor than the others.

I only saw that you support it based on Ismailis doctrine & Ismailis doctrine has no value 

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19 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

I only saw that you support it based on Ismailis doctrine & Ismailis doctrine has no value 

No, that's not the reason, hence why I said

2 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Although an Ismaili site, this is probably more accurate:

I have read on this years before, I only provided the link because it had some Islamic perspective. But as I said, you can find a lot of information on the early Church under James the Just.

Anyhow, I'll leave the thread for it's original topic.

And Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Knows best

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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9 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

I have read on this years before, I only provided the link because it had some Islamic perspective. But as I said, you can find a lot of information on the early Church under James the Just.

 Anyhow, I'll leave the thread for it's original topic.

After a brief look the Ismaili link just wants to prove Imamate of Aghakhan IV In it’s last diagram but this thread from beginning created on wrong mentality because nor Prophet nor any Imams claimed that they are from descendants of Issac but whole them always highlited that they are descendants of Ismail (عليه السلام) the son of Prophet ibrahim (عليه السلام) because in Jewish community people inherit religion from mother side & if we accept idea of creator of thread we will reject Qur'an word that says the great sacrifice will from descendants of Prophet Ismail (عليه السلام) because Jews & Christians say that great sacrifice would be from descendants of Issac that for Jews it comes from mother side & idea of creator of thread is against Qur'an.

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I know I said I'd leave the off topic posts, but in case others may benefit, found an old post by @Qa'im

Leaves an interesting passage referring to successorship too.

 

Also in this thread, someone argued how Abu Bakr was to Peter as Ali as was to James. In the sense Peter seized the power, while Jesus said to follow James- his relative.

Another interesting parallel that James was also known for his Adalah, hence his title.

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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