Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
313 Seeker

Prophet Mohammed's bani Israel Roots?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Salam,

Lately I have been researching about the lineage of Prophet Mohammed's ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) from his maternal grandfather called Abdul Mutalib.

Abdul Mutalib's mother (Salma bint Amr) is from Bani Najjar, and from what I found it seems that she is from a Jewish tribe. Does anybody know more about this?

Thanks

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam from your previous posts I think you want to participate in zionist Jewish prophecies like helping to building of third temple & etc anyway Prophet Muhammad always mentioned that he is completely from Ismail branch only Imam Mahdi (aj) has jewish roots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shia farm girl said:

Can you expand a little about Imam Mahdis Jewish roots? I find that very intrig

His mother is from descendants of peter the true successor of Prophet Isa (a) but before him all  Imams & Prophet Muhammad  (pbu) we’re from descendants of Ismael/Ishmael (عليه السلام) until by marrying 11th Imam (عليه السلام) with Lady Narjis (a) from descendants of saint peter bloodline of sons of Ismael & ishaq joined toghether .

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Narjis_(a)

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

His mother is from descendants of peter the true successor of Prophet Isa (a)

I always read how James was the true successor, founder of the Nazarene Church of Jerusalem (a more "Jewish" Christianity which still kept the Law), as opposed to the Gentile church of Peter and Paul, which would be Catholicism.

James as founder of the Jerusalem church makes a lot more sense, as Peter founded the Church in Rome and preached to Gentiles, which Prophet Eesa (عليه السلام) didn't do - he was sent specifically to Bani Israel, not universal like Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)

Although an Ismaili site, this is probably more accurate:

https://ismailignosis.com/2019/01/25/the-imamat-of-james-brother-of-jesus-successor-of-christ-leader-of-early-christianity/

 

Also the wikishia link you posted mentions at the end why the narration has not been universally accepted among Shia scholars.

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Also the wikishia link you posted mentions at the end why the narration has not been universally accepted among Shia scholars.

They don’t agree that she was white Roman as eastern Roman prince or black African from north of Africa but all agree that she were from descendants of Saint Peter alsoIsmailis are trying to adopt their ideas with other Christians as Aghakhani Ismailis take rein reincreation idea from Hinduism & Buddhism so their idea is not accurate & just godfor acceptance by Europeans as they try to make digeist & accept in European countries like as Purtogal so they adopt their ideas with Christians in Portugal & Spain & beside that prove their idea of imammateof Ismail Grand son of Imam Sadiq by a text that is not accepted by all Christians & Sheikh tusi Hadith doesn’t match with Ismail the grand son of Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

They don’t agree that she was white Roman as eastern Roman prince or black African from north of Africa but all agree that she were from descendants of Saint Peter alsoIsmailis are trying to adopt their ideas with other Christians as Aghakhani Ismailis take rein reincreation idea from Hinduism & Buddhism so their idea is not accurate & just godfor acceptance by Europeans as they try to make digest & accept in European countries like as Purtogal so they adopt their ideas with Christians in Portugal & Spain 

Peter was the first Pope of the Catholic Church, they became the dominant church which persecuted the "unitarian" Nazarenes into near extinction.

James being the true successor has little to do with Ismaili beliefs, it was just an article with an Islamic perspective of James. You can find other literature on James being the rightful successor, but became overshadowed by the Gentile (non-Jewish) Church.

I don't see how Peter and his companion Paul could be the rightful successors when James was closer to Jesus than either of them and kept the early Judaic roots rather than changing the religion as we know it today.

 

Quote

“Jewish Christian movement that existed during the early centuries of the Christian Era. They regarded Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah while rejecting his divinity and insisted on the necessity of following Jewish law and rites. The Ebionites used only one of the Jewish Gospels, revered James the Just, and rejected Paul the Apostle as an apostate from the Law.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/monkeymind/2017/10/james-just-first-bishop-jerusalem-jesus-brother-successor.html

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

don't see how Peter and his companion Paul could be the rightful successors when James was closer to Jesus than either of them and kept the early Judaic roots rather than changing the religion as we know it today.

Peter & Paul were always against each other also peter position forgot or censored by followers of Paul

also succeessorship of a Prophet (عليه السلام) like as Imamate doesn’t transfer by close relationships like as successor of Prophet Solomon was a person that didn’t has any close relationship to him that it happened for Prophet Isa (عليه السلام) as we know he doesn’t has a father so mentioning a person as his brother has very weak base but Allah honored progeny of Prophet Muhammad (pbu) & from them progeny of Imam Hussain( as) to be successors & Imams that their names & attributes announced by Allah to Prophet (pbu) that he teach them to some close companions like as Jamir Ibn Abdullah Ansary that before that the matter of people from descendants of Imam hussain(عليه السلام) lie as Jaffa Kadhab talked before also Imam Kadhim (عليه السلام) & Imam Java (عليه السلام) proved their Imamate from their similarities to prophethood of Prophet Isa (عليه السلام) from childhood.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Peter & Paul were always against each other also peter position forgot or censored by followers of Paul

also succeessorship of a Prophet (عليه السلام) like as Imamate doesn’t transfer by close relationships like as successor of Prophet Solomon was a person that didn’t has any close relationship to him that it happened for Prophet Isa (عليه السلام) as we know he doesn’t has a father so mentioning a person as his brother has very weak base 

James allegedly being brother of Jesus is a side issue and does not discount the fact that he was head of early non-Trinitarian Christianity, which did not regard Jesus as divine and followed the Law.

Peter as I said preached to Gentiles, whilst the sect of James was only for Bani Israel, as Jesus was sent specifically to them.

The church in Rome was universal and believed Jesus was sent for mankind etc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

James allegedly being brother of Jesus is a side issue and does not discount the fact that he was head of early non-Trinitarian Christianity, which did not regard Jesus as divine and followed the Law.

 

If we accept term of brother for Prophet Isa(عليه السلام) so we can choose term of child for him as it mentioned in Christian sources also mentioned by story books like as Davinci code that supports idea of his marriage & having a child 

 

5 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Peter as I said preached to Gentiles, whilst the sect of James was only for Bani Israel, as Jesus was sent specifically to them.

It’s based on Christianity doctrine so has no real value also we have Banabas gospel that not accepted trinity like as James & not accepted by collectors of current gospel & founders of current Christianity 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

If we accept term of brother for Prophet Isa(عليه السلام) so we can choose term of child for him as it mentioned in Christian sources also mentioned by story books like as Davinci code that supports idea of his marriage & having a child  

That's my point, we do not need to accept he was the biological brother. It is a seperate issue to discuss. However, James was the founder of the Jerusalem Church, a monothiestic early "Christianity" predating Catholicism.

22 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

It’s based on Christianity doctrine so has no real value also we have Banabas gospel that not accepted trinity like as James & not accepted by collectors of current gospel & founders of current Christianity 

Gospel of Barnabas was widely deemed a hoax. Most Muslims of today no longer refer to it in debates with Christians.

My main argument is that it is very debatable as to whether Peter was the "true sucessor" as you so boldly stated, and from my understanding James was moreso a successor than the others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

My main argument is that it is very debatable as to whether Peter was the "true sucessor" as you so boldly stated, and from my understanding James was moreso a successor than the others.

I only saw that you support it based on Ismailis doctrine & Ismailis doctrine has no value 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

I only saw that you support it based on Ismailis doctrine & Ismailis doctrine has no value 

No, that's not the reason, hence why I said

2 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Although an Ismaili site, this is probably more accurate:

I have read on this years before, I only provided the link because it had some Islamic perspective. But as I said, you can find a lot of information on the early Church under James the Just.

Anyhow, I'll leave the thread for it's original topic.

And Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Knows best

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

I have read on this years before, I only provided the link because it had some Islamic perspective. But as I said, you can find a lot of information on the early Church under James the Just.

 Anyhow, I'll leave the thread for it's original topic.

After a brief look the Ismaili link just wants to prove Imamate of Aghakhan IV In it’s last diagram but this thread from beginning created on wrong mentality because nor Prophet nor any Imams claimed that they are from descendants of Issac but whole them always highlited that they are descendants of Ismail (عليه السلام) the son of Prophet ibrahim (عليه السلام) because in Jewish community people inherit religion from mother side & if we accept idea of creator of thread we will reject Qur'an word that says the great sacrifice will from descendants of Prophet Ismail (عليه السلام) because Jews & Christians say that great sacrifice would be from descendants of Issac that for Jews it comes from mother side & idea of creator of thread is against Qur'an.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know I said I'd leave the off topic posts, but in case others may benefit, found an old post by @Qa'im

Leaves an interesting passage referring to successorship too.

 

Also in this thread, someone argued how Abu Bakr was to Peter as Ali as was to James. In the sense Peter seized the power, while Jesus said to follow James- his relative.

Another interesting parallel that James was also known for his Adalah, hence his title.

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/19/2019 at 11:57 PM, Shia farm girl said:

As salaamun aleikum,

@Ashvazdanghe salaam brother, in sha Allah your well. 

Can you expand a little about Imam Mahdis Jewish roots? I find that very intriguing.

W/s

Wasalaam, well the term Jew is technically any descendant of Judas from the 12 tribes of Israel. I'm not 100% sure but I read that the Prophet has a grandparent who is bani Israel. From bani najar. I don't know if they are from Judas tribe. If this is the case, then the Prophet and hence the Mahdi have at least one bani Israel ancestor.

Edited by 313 Seeker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/19/2019 at 10:40 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam from your previous posts I think you want to participate in zionist Jewish prophecies like helping to building of third temple & etc anyway Prophet Muhammad always mentioned that he is completely from Ismail branch only Imam Mahdi (aj) has jewish roots.

The holy mount Zion and its prophesies have as much to do with modern "zionism", as ISIS has to do with Islam. The founder of Zionism is atheist, so that proves it all for me.

I never read the Prophet saying he is "completely" from ismail. Do you have references on that? I did hear about Mahdi. Could be from his non Arab side or both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/20/2019 at 2:00 PM, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

James being the true successor

I had a huge discussion years ago with @placid, the father of @Son of Placid, and there is talk that James is the physical brother of Jesus. I love this topic and am still confused about it. I'd appreciate it if somebody revives this topic for the sake of the spirit of God (عليه السلام).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

The holy mount Zion and its prophesies have as much to do with modern "zionism", as ISIS has to do with Islam. The founder of Zionism is atheist, so that proves it all for me.

I never read the Prophet saying he is "completely" from ismail. Do you have references on that? I did hear about Mahdi. Could be from his non Arab side or both.

 Our Lord! I have settled part of my descendants in a barren valley, by Your sacred House, our Lord, that they may maintain the prayer. So make the hearts of a part of the people fond of them, and provide them with fruits, so that they may give thanks. (37)

رَّبَّنَا إِنِّي أَسْكَنتُ مِن ذُرِّيَّتِي بِوَادٍ غَيْرِ ذِي زَرْعٍ عِندَ بَيْتِكَ الْمُحَرَّمِ رَبَّنَا لِيُقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ فَاجْعَلْ أَفْئِدَةً مِّنَ النَّاسِ تَهْوِي إِلَيْهِمْ وَارْزُقْهُم مِّنَ الثَّمَرَاتِ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَشْكُرُونَ ﴿٣٧﴾

http://tanzil.net/#14:37

اَلْبَاقِرُ عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ : فِي قَوْلِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ إِنِّي أَسْكَنْتُ مِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي بِوٰادٍ نَحْنُ بَقِيَّةُ تِلْكَ اَلْعِتْرَةِ وَ قَالَ عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ كَانَتْ دَعْوَةُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ لَنَا خَاصَّةً.

المناقب , جلد 4 , صفحه 179

Imam Baqir (عليه السلام) : in saying of Ibrahim (عليه السلام) " I have settled part of my descendants in a barren valley", we are that descendants & Imam (عليه السلام) said the saying of Ibrahim was just about us.

Al Manaqib , V 4 ,P 179

Also Bani Israel stamped with poverty by Allah that Prophet Muhammad (pbu) and his descendants don't stamped with it &  ancestors of Prophet Muhammad (pub) didn't commit transgression & whole of them were pious people that were following Hanif way of Prophet Ibrahim (عليه السلام) 

رِبَتْ عَلَيْهِمُ الذِّلَّةُ أَيْنَ مَا ثُقِفُوا إِلَّا بِحَبْلٍ مِّنَ اللَّـهِ وَحَبْلٍ مِّنَ النَّاسِ وَبَاءُوا بِغَضَبٍ مِّنَ اللَّـهِ وَضُرِبَتْ عَلَيْهِمُ الْمَسْكَنَةُ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ كَانُوا يَكْفُرُونَ بِآيَاتِ اللَّـهِ وَيَقْتُلُونَ الْأَنبِيَاءَ بِغَيْرِ حَقٍّ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ بِمَا عَصَوا وَّكَانُوا يَعْتَدُونَ ﴿١١٢﴾ 

Wherever they are found, abasement is stamped upon them, except for an asylum from Allah and an asylum from the people. They have earned the wrath of Allah, and poverty has been stamped upon them. That, because they would deny the signs of Allah and kill the Prophets unjustly. That, because they would disobey and commit transgression. (112) 

http://tanzil.net/#3:112

https://hadith.inoor.ir/hadith/379596/المناقب/امام-باقر-(علیه-السلام)-?SourceID=1566&PageType=ViewExplanation

https://hawzah.net/fa/Question/View/11004/اجداد-پیامبر(ع)-و-زبان-حضرت-ابراهیم(ع)

http://wiki.ahlolbait.com/اجداد_رسول_خدا_(ص)

https://www.pasokhgoo.ir/content/دقيقا-نسل-پيامبر-اسلام-از-كيست؟

http://askdin.com/thread/اثبات-اینکه-حضرت-محمد-ازنسل-حضرت-اسماعيل-می-باشند

with your idea pan Turks are claiming that Prophet Muhammad (pbu) was Turk too because they call him Mehmet & Nabi Qedar that buried in Zanjan city at Iran was a Turk too  because majority of Zanjan residents are talking Turkish (Azeri) & Turkey made a shrine & Museum in border city before entering to Iran from land border of Azerbaijan of Iran in name of Prophet Ibrahim (عليه السلام) & Iranians can claim that Prophet Muhammad (pbu) was an Iranian too because he born in Urr city that was a part of Babylon as Territory of Iran from time of Achaemenids that many Prophets of Bani Israel buried inside current Iran territory .:grin:

https://www.yjc.ir/fa/news/6325963/آیا-پیامبر-اسلامصلی-الله-علیه-و-آله-وسلم-از-نژاد-ایرانی-بود

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qedarite

https://article.tebyan.net/282849/جد-پیامبر-حضرت-اسحاق-است-

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

with your idea pan Turks are claiming that Prophet Muhammad (pbu) was Turk too because they call him Mehmet & Nabi Qedar that buried in Zanjan city at Iran was a Turk too  because majority of Zanjan residents are talking Turkish (Azeri) & Turkey made a shrine & Museum in border city before entering to Iran from land border of Azerbaijan of Iran in name of Prophet Ibrahim (عليه السلام) & Iranians can claim that Prophet Muhammad (pbu) was an Iranian too because he born in Urr city that was a part of Babylon as Territory of Iran from time of Achaemenids that many Prophets of Bani Israel buried inside current Iran territory .:grin:

Salaam

Why not? Let people find ancestral connection of Prophet Mohammed to their land. In the end we are all related anyway. So you didn't get me a proof showing that the Prophet was 'entirely' intermarried from Ismailites. Did you read about his bani najar grandmother? In this case he has a near relative who is from bani Israel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/19/2019 at 10:40 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

think you want to participate in zionist Jewish prophecies like helping to building of third temple & etc

Salaam sorry I forgot to answer this part.

Yes of course I'd be honoured could help in constructing a house of God for anyone, especially if it is devoted to a Prophet of the stature of Soleiman (عليه السلام). . But from what I've studied I don't think that the 'temple mount', is the right place according to bible description. (This needs to be studied without bias and prejudice by experts who are not paid by some non religious atheists or satanics)

Also I would like to support any prophecy that is genuine from the holy Torah and the Prophets among the blessed bani Israel. They will inherit the Earth just like all the just descendants of all 128,000 Prophets, as well as their true friends and companions, in sha Allah.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The strongest argument (I could find so far) for Prophet Mohammed having a near Jewish ancestor is that his great grandmothers tribe is mentioned in the charter of Medinah in relation to Jews .

Quote

#31 The same applies to Jews of Bani Al-Najjar, Bani Al Harith, Bani Saeeda, Bani Jusham, Bani Al Aws, Thaalba, and the Jaffna, (a clan of the Bani Thaalba) and the Bani Al Shutayba.

Source

caliph.thumb.PNG.6c5e6255bd3df12f8ea9b8611bf30010.PNG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...