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In the Name of God بسم الله
Darth Vader

Nusayriat Pandemic on the Loose in Pakistan

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7 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

Well certainly I have met with those who say Imam Ali (asws) as Rabb. 

Brother if you like to see the sermon  (Khutba al Bayan, page 133 & 145 / 332  of book) by Imam Ali (عليه السلام) regarding the appearance of Imam Mahdi (عليه السلام) the following is the link of book in Urdu:

http://ebooks.rahnuma.org/1497218519-Alamat Zahoor Imam Mehdi.pdf.html

Edited by skyweb1987

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On 3/19/2019 at 3:06 PM, Salsabeel said:

Yes, if not saying from tongue then he should keep this belief in his heart to be considered as Nusayri.

Sajda, like this one:

وَرَفَعَ أَبَوَيْهِ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ وَخَرُّواْ لَهُ سُجَّدًا

12:100

Or one offereing ssjdah to him considering him the God? 

https://www.al-Islam.org/philosophy-Islamic-laws-nasir-makarim-shirazi-jafar-subhani/question-48-it-allowed-prostrate-anyone

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On 3/19/2019 at 9:43 AM, Ejaz said:

 

But if his intention is not for worship (like you see some Shias doing sajdah in front of alam) then I would say he is not nusayri.

 

He is probably worst than Nusary. Never even encourage such a deviant belief. 

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On 3/19/2019 at 11:41 AM, starlight said:

Who does sajdah to Alam??? I have never heard of this.

This sajdah is meant for thanking Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Some of them do it to thank Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for them to allow visit the Imams (عليه السلام). All sajdah is meant for Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), if not then it is wrong.

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9 hours ago, haideriam said:

Thanks for the link. 

What I was trying to say is that sometimes the actual matter is different from what we see. Like we see a person prostrating before another, it seems like one is prostrating to other but in actual he is not, like 12:100 and your referred tafseer is proof. 

The matter becomes clear to us when one discloses his secret of heart as to why & with which intention one is prostrating & prostrating to whom. 

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On 3/20/2019 at 6:26 AM, skyweb1987 said:

But the sermon I have mentioned from the book in my last post Imam Ali (عليه السلام) has termed those as Ghalia" ie ghali.

Yes, by the definition of "ghulu" (I.e., exceeding proper limits by doing something more than what is legally ordained), they can be termed as ghali. 

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8 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

This sajdah is meant for thanking Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Some of them do it to thank Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for them to allow visit the Imams (عليه السلام). All sajdah is meant for Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), if not then it is wrong.

Still we should not encourage this right because of how it would look in non Shia eyes

11 hours ago, haideriam said:

He is probably worst than Nusary. Never even encourage such a deviant belief. 

Yes we should not encourage this. But only Allah knows his intention & if he has worse beliefs than a nusayri as Abu Nur has said here^

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7 minutes ago, Ejaz said:

Still we should not encourage this right because of how it would look in non Shia eyes

I agree with you. Not only that but I don't think we have any proof for doing such an act. Using Prophet Yusuf (عليه السلام) verse is very dangerous to accept any sajdah. 

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6 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

Thanks for the link. 

What I was trying to say is that sometimes the actual matter is different from what we see. Like we see a person prostrating before another, it seems like one is prostrating to other but in actual he is not, like 12:100 and your referred tafseer is proof. 

The matter becomes clear to us when one discloses his secret of heart as to why & with which intention one is prostrating & prostrating to whom. 

I understand where you are coming from brother, and think it is safest to just do sajdah to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and thank HIM for blessing us with these Guides. 

Sometimes circumstances and their misunderstandings can be far worse for the Shia image. In actual fact we are prostrating to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) only and only as becomes clear from the write up. 

I had read another place that their was this prohibition thereafter once Al Islam came into place, hence you will never ever find such examples after the coming of Al Islam. (from the time of Rasool Allah(sawws)) 

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3 hours ago, Ejaz said:

Still we should not encourage this right because of how it would look in non Shia eyes

Yes we should not encourage this. But only Allah knows his intention & if he has worse beliefs than a nusayri as Abu Nur has said here^

Agreed brother.

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On 3/18/2019 at 8:23 PM, Laayla said:

Brother DV,

Please explain what does nusayriat mean?  

What part of Pakistan is this taking place, or is this done all over the country?

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

Polytheism. Pure and simple. Read below please.

On 3/19/2019 at 7:25 AM, Salsabeel said:

Perhaps this is wrong and you need to correct it!!! 

Scholars specially the "Mujtahideen" usually do not need to do taqleed. Taqleed is for those who don't know. 

I see. Instead, I think it should read "anyone who does not believe in taqleed..." instead of "do" taqleed?

On 3/19/2019 at 7:28 AM, Salsabeel said:

Never met in my life time with any Nusayri here in Pakistan. You can say some as "Ghali" or "Mufawwidah" but none says that Imam Ali (asws) is God. I have heard about them, but I think these are just stories and these person are non-existent in Pakistan.

I have spoken to several people here. I believe its the way they are raised, in ignorance. When you discuss theology with them in a comfortable place or privately a surprising large percentage of these people, especially those past their youths, told me that "Ali is the embodiment of Allah on Earth" "what else could it be?". Then they cite evidences like "Allah sook hands with the Prophet on mairaaj and the hand looked like Ali's and he spoke in Ali's voice" And then "Ali was born in Kaaba, isn't it obvious?" and so on. If someone disagrees the polytheists / nusayri whatever will exclaim that the person objecting to what they said is a munafiq who could not tolerate the high station of Ali (عليه السلام). Lol... And I don't know about many places not feel responsible rather my concern is my local community and because my grandfather along with his father converted many people back when at a time people did not even know what "Shia" means. So now I feel obligated to do my part and sad that so many now have been misguided so greatly.

On 3/19/2019 at 8:33 AM, haideriam said:

A committee as learned as possible to select speakers.

Someone from as close in the family as possible to get acquainted with Islamic studies on a formal basis so that he can in turn run the place as one.

Yes brother. I had an uncle with knowledge and wise and he would have the final say but he passed away and now my cousins my nephews my brothers do not feel the same level of motivation nor they have the knowledge. At least I have managed to convince most of them and my elder brother has encouraged me to go ahead with the effort. But since I feel that all of us are not very knowledgeable in this regard is specifically why I have brought the matter here to ShiaChat'ers.

I have made a plan, not only how to put up warning signs, but also to have each speaker sign paperwork. Also I have made plans to contact the local pesh-Imam and try to have him onboard. That night I had words with him because he was the one responsible for deciding the speakers. The event was community funded. However this Imam is someone we asked over to take care of the mosque's affairs and teach Qur'an and masail to the children which he has been doing well. But I don't know how he tolerated ghuluw. I think he has become greedy now. Recently he has started organizing caravans of pilgrims to Iran and Iraq along with a deviant person from a neighboring little town. May have been influenced. Any way, if he does not cooperate and mend his ways I have an older cousin who is powerful and feared and he also believes in taqleed / is usooli. He nominated me to take care of the mosque. I think I'll use him as a wildcard if need be. If nothing else, I can certainly not allow polytheism or deviance on my watch. I don't want to burn for eternities.

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