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In the Name of God بسم الله
Darth Vader

Nusayriat Pandemic on the Loose in Pakistan

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:bismillah:

:salam:

How are you friends?

I did not know where else to make this thread. Except on Shiachat. I think its a safe haven we can all return to when disturbed.

As the title indicates, I have recently been exposed to a lot of nusayri especially the "zakir" speakers in the Imam bargah made by my grandfather. They steal tunes from bollywood then sing their praises which are too excessive. Last night during his song one of them called Imam Ali (عليه السلام) "the God of nusayris" and the speaker before him read polytheistic poetry. That is when I left. How hurt would Ali (عليه السلام) be to hear that title. I also don't think its praising. The people here are poor and pretty ignorant and have been brain washed by speakers who hate the maraja and scholars. Its very bad. Of course it was foretold that the Shia will be tested and milled like the grain so that chaff will be separated from the flour. But since along with the other progeny of my grandfather I also will be held responsible nevertheless for lending the pulpit to such people. So I have thought of a solution. I implore and encourage all senior and knowledgeable members to also share their thoughts.

My solution is simple. There is a room where the speakers have to wait and then inside the hall there is a stage. I will get two signs made and put on display in both places so they can see. On it I will write "Attention: People who do not do taqleed please do not approach the mimbar e Rasool (the pulpit)". And "Any polytheism, hate speech or political sedition or even the mention of the word nusayri is strictly prohibited in any form. In case of breach of these guidelines the organizers will not be held responsible". In fact I will make a few of these display cards and put them all over their waiting room and the passage to the stage to be sure.

I am sorry I seem to always bring drama oriented contribution to the site. But its a serious thing. I don't know of another community that may be mostly intact or won't decide to attack me instead on this. If you can think of any improvements please suggest them. I will be eternally grateful of course. I really don't want to burn in the oven with the polytheists so help me.

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Brother DV,

Please explain what does nusayriat mean?  

What part of Pakistan is this taking place, or is this done all over the country?

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

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13 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

The people here are poor and pretty ignorant and have been brain washed by speakers who hate the maraja and scholars. Its very bad.

So I have thought of a solution. I implore and encourage all senior and knowledgeable members to also share their thoughts.

Brother such people can also be found in the west and on this forum too. I had my fair share of experiences at United Kingdom Sunni mosques few years ago. Last two days have been pretty bad on this forum too. 

Your ideas for a solution at your mosque are good. I don't know what the legislation of Pakistan is when it comes to religious law but I would encourage Pakistanis to urge your government and media to make religious discrimination a crime. Make protests and write to media personalities and ministers. 

I would also suggest installing cameras and audio recording equipment at your mosque and put signs to inform people about it. 

Edited by Murtaza1

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@Darth Vader Do you have a committee in place who regulates which speakers and reciters get to be on the pulpit? That is the only solution in my opinion. Hopefully, someone else will be able to come up with a better one.

Knowing Pakistanis,  I doubt anyone is going to pay heed to the signs. It's really sad this is happening. I personally have never been able to stand most Noha reciters.Their love for Ahlebayt(عليه السلام) doesn't go far enough to acquire real knowledge about their lives. 

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19 hours ago, Darth Vader said:

"Attention: People who do not do taqleed please do not approach the mimbar e Rasool (the pulpit)"

Perhaps this is wrong and you need to correct it!!! 

Scholars specially the "Mujtahideen" usually do not need to do taqleed. Taqleed is for those who don't know. 

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Never met in my life time with any Nusayri here in Pakistan. You can say some as "Ghali" or "Mufawwidah" but none says that Imam Ali (asws) is God. I have heard about them, but I think these are just stories and these person are non-existent in Pakistan.

Edited by Salsabeel

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17 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

but none says that Imam Ali (asws) is God

Does someone has to say outright that 'Ali is God' for him to be a Nusayri ? What if someone says 'we do sajdah to Ali'? 

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4 hours ago, starlight said:

@Darth Vader Do you have a committee in place who regulates which speakers and reciters get to be on the pulpit? That is the only solution in my opinion. Hopefully, someone else will be able to come up with a better one. 

A committee as learned as possible to select speakers.

Someone from as close in the family as possible to get acquainted with Islamic studies on a formal basis so that he can in turn run the place as one.

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1 hour ago, starlight said:

Does someone has to say outright that 'Ali is God' for him to be a Nusayri ? What if someone says 'we do sajdah to Ali'? 

If his intention is sajdah e ibadah (worship) then I would say he is a nusayri and deviated from the fundamentals of tawhid.

But if his intention is not for worship (like you see some Shias doing sajdah in front of alam) then I would say he is not nusayri.

But I would refrain from making such statements

Wallahu A’lam

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54 minutes ago, Ejaz said:

But if his intention is not for worship (like you see some Shias doing sajdah in front of alam)

Who does sajdah to Alam??? I have never heard of this.

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On 3/18/2019 at 6:26 AM, Darth Vader said:

If you can think of any improvements please suggest them. I will be eternally grateful of course. I really don't want to burn in the oven with the polytheists so help me.

Mod Note: Extremely long quote was shortened in length.

Brother act quickly before it is too late.you are right that many Zakir have hihjacked the real Islam and missled the poor people.

Try to guide and educate local sensible persons so that you may be effective.

Edited by Hameedeh
Mod Note in the quote.

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7 hours ago, starlight said:

Does someone has to say outright that 'Ali is God' for him to be a Nusayri ? What if someone says 'we do sajdah to Ali'? 

Yes, if not saying from tongue then he should keep this belief in his heart to be considered as Nusayri.

Sajda, like this one:

وَرَفَعَ أَبَوَيْهِ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ وَخَرُّواْ لَهُ سُجَّدًا

12:100

Or one offereing ssjdah to him considering him the God? 

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9 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

Never met in my life time with any Nusayri here in Pakistan. You can say some as "Ghali" or "Mufawwidah" but none says that Imam Ali (asws) is God. I have heard about them, but I think these are just stories and these person are non-existent in Pakistan.

There are people who consider Imam Ali AS as Rab and promote this as principle which is considered by Marajy kram as idea of ghulat.

I was reading the book written by Allama Talib jauhri named as "Alamate Zahoor Imam Mahdi As" (~1990).  One sermon attributed to Imam Ali as mentioned various signs of appearance of Imam Mahdi as..It also mentioned that in last days there will be persons from my followers who will consider him (Imam Ali AS) as Rab. They are Ghali and Imam Ali mentioned him as hated to those.

It is surprising to read this that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) has expressed the presence of such people in the days before appearance of Imam Mahdi (عليه السلام).

Edited by skyweb1987

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On 3/18/2019 at 11:26 AM, Darth Vader said:

I have recently been exposed to a lot of nusayri especially the "zakir" speakers in the Imam bargah made by my grandfather.

WS. I am surprised that you've only recently been exposed to this considering Pakistan is like a central hub for this type of spread. I've been aware of it since probably close to a decade now. It's as if they, the zakirs, are competing on how to out do each other, so they go to and beyond Nusayri levels. I used to like listening to Pakistani zakirs but now I just see them as entertainers. Other than seeing their videos on YouTube, they've been coming here to the United Kingdom since a while.

Your best bet is to take it up with the masjid's committee and perhaps involve the resident alim, if you have one. Best not to have these types of reciters come to the masjid at all for everyone's sanity.

United Kingdom is infested with weird ghuluu and nusayri type groups; Sajdas to alams, Insha Ali instead of Insha Allah, Ali Rabb, Azadari is important while namaz is not, anti-taqleed, anti-scholar, been exposed to this since a decade here. No wonder I ran from Shiaism :D

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13 hours ago, skyweb1987 said:

It also mentioned that in last days there will be persons from my followers who will consider him (Imam Ali AS) as Rab. They are Ghali and Imam Ali mentioned him as hated to those.

Well certainly I have met with those who say Imam Ali (asws) as Rabb. But they believe on tafweed, they believe that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has granted Imam Ali (asws) the authority to distribute rizq, life & death etc. They believe that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is "Rabbul-Arbaab". 

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On 3/20/2019 at 1:29 AM, Salsabeel said:

Well certainly I have met with those who say Imam Ali (asws) as Rabb. But they believe on tafweed, they believe that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has granted Imam Ali (asws) the authority to distribute rizq, life & death etc. They believe that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is "Rabbul-Arbaab". 

But the sermon I have mentioned from the book in my last post Imam Ali (عليه السلام) has termed those as Ghalia" ie ghali.

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