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In the Name of God بسم الله
islam25

Why to call ourselves Shia and not Muslim.

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If we really want to be United then we should leave the tittle of "Shia" and "Sunni" and own the "Muslim" title.

Because the  name of sects  too have  divisive effect and adds to hatred and prejudice.

@ShiaMan14 @Anonymous2144 @layman @eThErEaL @Abu Nur @Ralvi @Salsabeel

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Ibrahim AS has been called as Shia of Nuh as and he is also called as Muslim.

Are both names not mentioned in Qur'an?

What ambiguity can you find in the light of verses of Qur'an, please?

 

Edited by skyweb1987

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7 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

Ibrahim AS has been called as Shia of Nuh as and he is also called as Muslim.

Are both names not mentioned in Qur'an?

What ambiguity can you find in the light of verses of Qur'an, please?

 

You didn't got my question.

What about those Prophets who don't call themselves Shia.

And my q question was Both Shia and Sunni should giveup  their titles and own one name and that is Muslim (instead of Shia and Sunni).

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51 minutes ago, islam25 said:

If we really want to be United then we should leave the tittle of "Shia" and "Sunni" and own the "Muslim" title.

Because the  name of sects  too have  divisive effect and adds to hatred and prejudice.

@ShiaMan14 @Anonymous2144 @layman @eThErEaL @Abu Nur @Ralvi @Salsabeel

I agree with you Brother. Everyone have their own journey and should always be uniting with Muslims and never divide.

And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided

Edited by Abu Nur

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15 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

Ibrahim AS has been called as Shia of Nuh as and he is also called as Muslim.

Are both names not mentioned in Qur'an?

What ambiguity can you find in the light of verses of Qur'an, please?

 

To become Shia of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) is different than sect Shia'ism or belonging to that sect. If one follow the footstep of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) then they will become their followers, and those followers will see all Muslims in unite group, one Ummah and they don't divide. 

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3 minutes ago, islam25 said:

And my q question was Both Shia and Sunni should giveup  their titles and own one name and that is Muslim (instead of Shia and Sunni).

I don't see how this will practically bring about unity, just in theory.

How exactly will there be true unity, when all these Muslims will do wudhu differently, pray differently, even at different times in some cases. Some will express admiration for individuals who wronged the Prophet's family.

Most Muslims do not believe we have an Imam of our time.

What exactly does everyone calling themselves only as Muslim achieve other than unity on paper?

 

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We all are Muslims on paper but our beliefs and fiqh are different. We have one Allah and believe in his justice but the difference in Tawheed and Adl is huge. We differ in concept of Nobuwwat. They don't have Imamat, we do. Their Ma'ad is different and our different. We differ in fiqh everywhere. 

Assume after all this difference, everyone of us agrees to be called as 'Muslim' alone then how would you distinguish a 'Muslim' of particular belief from another. How would you classify sects in '72 sects' hadith.

The term Shi'a has been used by Ahlulbait (عليهم اسلام) for their followers and we should be proud to carry it as a label for us. 

There's no room for unity in matters of religion. 

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Nobody can be sure they are Shia of the current Imam anyway so one should not be too confident and sure of ones status infront of God (and the Imam himself fears God) . Anybody who fears Allah will not be too sure they are following the sunah of Allah, let alone judging others relation with Allah. If you ask me whether I'm a good person, I can only say that I 'hope' so. Imagine me saying "I'm good", and you are "bad", because your opinion of history is different. Definitely would be wrong and the opposite of humble. 

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Let's think outside the matrix. This whole Sunni Shia thing is totally nonsensical on it's own. Suna means way, and in itself has no quality or reference. Suna can be suna of shaytan. Same with the word Shia. Shia is like people of x. It could be Shia of iblis or Shia of Mohammed. Anybody who is a Shia of Mohammed will be the Shia of the current inheritor of Mohammed, and will embody the suna of God and his Prophet. (Hence a person who is on suna of Allah will be a Shia of the true leadership.)

Additionally let me repeat that current Shia refer to themselves as Shia of a man who  was the leader of mankind 1400 years ago, while the true sunah of God is to be Shia of the current Imam. During the time of Ali (عليه السلام), his Shia referred to themselves as Shia of Ali because he was their current Imam. They didn't say they are Shia of Mohammed or Jesus.

Saying I'm Shia and not suni, or I'm suni and not Shia does not make any real sense. I see it as an illogical baseless firewood for fitna and division. 

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Qur'an makes clear there are those who call themselves Muslims yet are not believers or momins. Shia are momin

and it makes clear there would be 72 sects. Obviously Islam is truth yet all sects are not

One of them is obviously the true path for a believer

we as Shi’a hear and we hold true onto the rope of Allah. his Qur'an and Ahlul Bayt 

Shia are follower of that rope. First being the apppinted successor for a Momin. 

Imam Ali(عليه السلام)

:NH:

 

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20 minutes ago, Ralvi said:

Qur'an makes clear there are those who call themselves Muslims yet are not believers or momins. Shia are momin

and it makes clear there would be 72 sects. Obviously Islam is truth yet all sects are not

One of them is obviously the true path for a believer

we as Shi’a hear and we hold true onto the rope of Allah. his Qur'an and Ahlul Bayt 

Shia are follower of that rope. First being the apppinted successor for a Momin. 

Imam Ali(عليه السلام)

:NH:

 

Out of 72 sects about 12 are self proclaimed Shia of al bayt who are going to hell. Nobody can be sure they are going to paradise. Nobody but a fool feels safe from Allah, as per the Qur'an. Saying that one is moomin is easy, but the ultimate proof is in the next life after we face the balance and return to God with our book either on the left or right side. I don't think it's a good idea to be so sure that one is among that one group of 72 who are actually against division, as they follow the Prophets way and the way if the One.

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Defining Islamic Unity

It is essential that we define what is meant by “Islamic unity”. There are various ideas and conceptions of Islamic unity. According to the highly intellectual scholar and prolific writer, Martyr Ayatullah Murtaza Mutahhari states that there are three definitions of what Islamic unity is. The first is that all Islamic schools of thought should come together, give up their differences and form a new single denomination. The second definition is that one school of thought should be followed and all the others forsaken. Both these ideas are incorrect, impractical and do not represent the true conception of Islamic unity.

The third idea is that Islamic unity is, as Ayatullah Mutahhari says, “in no way related to the unity of the different schools of Fiqh (jurisprudence) but signifies the unity of the Muslims and the unity of the followers of different schools of Fiqh, with their different religious ideas and views.”11

This is the correct definition of Islamic unity.

According to this definition of Islamic unity, we do not need to make any compromises on our principles, practices or beliefs for the sake of Islamic unity. Furthermore, we do not necessarily have to stop talking about the differences between the various Islamic schools of thought or avoid engaging in discussions and dialogue about them.

Some people believe that in order for us to unite with other schools of thought we must compromise some of our beliefs, otherwise the achievement of unity would not be possible, and therefore we cannot possibly unite if it entails compromising our beliefs. This belief is akin to the “all or nothing” principle. If we look at the example of Ameerul Mu’mineen, Imam Ali (عليه السلام), who tried everything in his power to preserve the foundation of imamah and, at the same time, the unity of the ummah, we can see that he did not adhere to the idea of “all or nothing”. Imam Ali (عليه السلام) did not ignore or deny the usurpation of his right to the khilafah but at the same time nor did he wage war against the unjust usurpers of the Divinely-appointed leadership.

------------------

Complete text: https://www.al-Islam.org/articles/plea-Islamic-unity-yasser-al-madani 

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3 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

I agree with you Brother. 

 

So you dismiss all hadiths in which the Imams (عليه السلام) explain who is a real Shia?
You dismiss all of our scholars' texts in which they talk about Shia identity, etc. etc. etc.?

Read my comment before this one. Islamic unity does not mean we have to abandon our different schools of thought etc. That is a false idea.

Of course, we should not divide without a good reason. But there are different schools of thought and there are different opinions and believes. If we act like we are all the same and only the same then we are dodging the obvious truth. We all should seek the truth.
Seek unity, yes, but we shouldn't be unrealistic. 

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5 hours ago, islam25 said:

If we really want to be United then we should leave the tittle of "Shia" and "Sunni" and own the "Muslim" title.

Because the  name of sects  too have  divisive effect and adds to hatred and prejudice.

@ShiaMan14 @Anonymous2144 @layman @eThErEaL @Abu Nur @Ralvi @Salsabeel

I agree that we should focus on what we have in common as Muslims; and try to understand and respect our differences; but we can't eliminate these differences, without causing more schism. Unity is not the same thing as uniformity. 

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“Unity” between Shi’a and Sunni cannot exist whatsoever but tolerance and decency can be shown between each other, our history is extremely important and the truth should be taught and not hidden. The truth is the reason why Sunni and Shi’a cannot “unite”. One school of thought supports the enemies of Islam and one school of thought send Lanat on those who the other school of thought love. Saying Shia and Sunni should “Unite” is like saying the  Khawarij and Shi’a should “Unite” it is simply not possible, in Omen is clear that khawarij can show tolerance and decency between other school of thoughts even though we(Shia) know they are dead wrong. Now I’m not saying we should help them and etc but both school of thoughts should mind their own business and not get on each other’s nerves, our history (even though it is the truth) gets on other school of thoughts nerves, aslong as our history exists and is being preached no tolerance will exist  between both school of thoughts, and that’s the Sunni’s problem not Shi’a. Sunni Islam is very well known to be violent and will always be violent, thus it is normal for them to react violently against anybody. 

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3 hours ago, Mohammed-Mehdi said:

So you dismiss all hadiths in which the Imams (عليه السلام) explain who is a real Shia?
You dismiss all of our scholars' texts in which they talk about Shia identity, etc. etc. etc.?

Salaam Aleikum,

No, actually when I was referring to following the footstep of Imams (عليه السلام) means exactly to what is described on those hadiths about Real Shias.

Quote

Read my comment before this one. Islamic unity does not mean we have to abandon our different schools of thought etc. That is a false idea.

Of course, we should not divide without a good reason. But there are different schools of thought and there are different opinions and believes. If we act like we are all the same and only the same then we are dodging the obvious truth. We all should seek the truth.
Seek unity, yes, but we shouldn't be unrealistic. 

You are right and in we should never abandon our Shariah or mix it with sects and we should always follow the best of it. We can never unite in the way of beliefs and laws where we start to follow other people Islamic ways, rather by unity we should not think that other Muslims are going to hell or they are not part of Islam religion, rather we unity because we believe in same God and Qur'an and same Laa Ilaaha Illallaah, same universal laws etc and that we should always be good for all Muslims and practicing goodness to them. They are all one Ummah and one body. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) hate separation, so we should not separate anyone from Islam religion, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) loves unity, so we should always consider one Ummah and not causing fitna.

The Muslim title is universal title and have been so many times mentioned in Qur'an of followers of Ibrahim. It is the best, non-sectarian and humble title to have. The following verse is best of example why it is so important to be only called by this title:

O you who have believed, fear Allah as He should be feared and do not die except as Muslims [in submission to Him].

There is no "and do not die expect as Shia, or Sunni", but as Muslims. I believe the OP wanted to show exactly this part where we should only called by Muslims.

Edited by Abu Nur

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