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In the Name of God بسم الله

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9 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

 Discipline does not equal faith , ever heard of Jaina Dharma? These people also practice asceticism  and do not believe in a creator.

Jain description of God, they do believe in a creator.

Ara is Param eish Ara 

0 Ara, the Highest Lord ! Although you are one, you appear as many (from the modal point of view). And yet you are indeed not many, (because the modes are not your totality}. You are always One, being a complete aggregate of the multiple (mode,;); but (when one looks only at the 
present moment) you are not a collection of modes, (but rather a single mode at a time). Hence you are one (from this latter viewpoint as well). You are full of the wonders of unified consciousness.

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On ‎3‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 3:21 AM, eThErEaL said:

The Prophet (S) is the wali of God par excellence.  I think this answer remains true for everyone despite what religion you follow.  Because the Christian follows Muhammad (S) through Christ (عليه السلام) and the Buddhists follow Muhammad (S) through the Buddha (عليه السلام).  The Muhammadan Shariah encompasses and contains all previous religions.  In fact the Prophet (S) contains everything within himself because he was sent as a mercy for all of existence.  He is the merciful womb (rhm) that contains the entire creation within himself.   He (S) was at the beginning even when Adam was between mud and clay (as a Hadith mentions), and he (S) is at the end.  The first of us is Muhammad, the Middle of us is Muhammad and the last of us is Muhammad (S) and everything in existence is Muhammad (S).

The same applies for Shias and Sunnis.  The Shias follow Muhammad (S) through the 12 infallibles.  

 

You have compared the Prophets of Islam: those, who uphold Tawheed, those that have been mentioned and those that have not been mentioned in the Qur'an, with a group of people who are non-theistic: Buddha and Buddhism.

You even have said, 'Alaysalam' after the title of Buddha. Are you serious?

 

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Because the Christian follows Muhammad (S) through Christ (عليه السلام) and the Buddhists follow Muhammad (S) through the Buddha

 

What do you mean?

You ought to explain yourself?

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On 5/19/2019 at 11:22 PM, ShiaMahamed said:

You have compared the Prophets of Islam: those, who uphold Tawheed, those that have been mentioned and those that have not been mentioned in the Qur'an, with a group of people who are non-theistic: Buddha and Buddhism.

You even have said, 'Alaysalam' after the title of Buddha. Are you serious?

I am serious. alhamdulillah.

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On 5/19/2019 at 11:22 PM, ShiaMahamed said:

You have compared the Prophets of Islam: those, who uphold Tawheed, those that have been mentioned and those that have not been mentioned in the Qur'an, with a group of people who are non-theistic: Buddha and Buddhism.

You even have said, 'Alaysalam' after the title of Buddha. Are you serious?

What do you mean?

You ought to explain yourself?

same here. please elaborate a little

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I've yet to see one of our ulema say "alayhi salaam" after Buddha, which is for the Prophets and messengers and Ahlul Bayt. 

There is no evidence he was a nabi, otherwise where do we draw the line in non Biblical past religious founders or personalities? 

Would you say Zoroaster (عليه السلام), Mani (عليه السلام), Mahavira (عليه السلام) or Laozi (عليه السلام) too?

Based on what exactly?

 

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4 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

I am serious. alhamdulillah.

 

"Where you were supposed to say 'Astakhfirullah!', you said, 'Alhamdulliah'?"

I think you are not aware, of the extent you have critically-mislearnt, your pronouncement.

 

I ask you, sincerely, would you care to explain?

What caused you to say 'Alaysalam' after the title of Buddha?

 

3 hours ago, Naam lewa e Panjetan ((عليه السلام) said:

same here. please elaborate a little

?

I didn't understand. Can you clarify?

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1 hour ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Would you say Zoroaster (عليه السلام), Mani (عليه السلام), Mahavira (عليه السلام) or Laozi (عليه السلام) too?

Based on what exactly?

Zoroaster was a Prophet that taught Pure Monotheism, 100%, however their religion obviously deviated in some smaller areas. As the first historically recognized Prophet of Monotheism (in secular history) it'd be silly to disregard him.

Mani is more complicated based on surviving texts, as I mentioned above he is more speculative (perhaps ironically, considering he came way after Zoroaster). 

I've no thought towards Mahavira.

Laozi? well there is a case you could make for it, the whole philosophy of Taoism doesn't have much that contradicts Islam at all.

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3 hours ago, HakimPtsid said:

Zoroaster was a Prophet that taught Pure Monotheism, 100%, however their religion obviously deviated in some smaller areas. As the first historically recognized Prophet of Monotheism (in secular history) it'd be silly to disregard him.

Mani is more complicated based on surviving texts, as I mentioned above he is more speculative (perhaps ironically, considering he came way after Zoroaster). 

I've no thought towards Mahavira.

Laozi? well there is a case you could make for it, the whole philosophy of Taoism doesn't have much that contradicts Islam at all.

My point is we don't know, not the same level of certainty and consesus we have for Biblical Prophets mentioned by name.

I'm not sure about agreement on Zoroaster, who as you said from a secular view is the first monothiestic Prophet but Sayid Sistani does consider their followers Ahlul Kitab, so that makes sense.

However, for instance, while permitting food prepared by Ahlul Kitab, he explicitly prohibits food prepared by Hindus and Buddhists. All these faiths, Kitabi and non Kitabi alike have been "corrupted".

https://www.Sistani.org/english/qa/01120/

Rather than speculating saying alayhi salam after Buddha, I think it is better to be silent in the face of insufficient evidence and conjecture. 

As always Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows best.

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4 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

My point is we don't know, not the same level of certainty and consesus we have for Biblical Prophets mentioned by name.

I'm not sure about agreement on Zoroaster, who as you said from a secular view is the first monothiestic Prophet but Sayid Sistani does consider their followers Ahlul Kitab, so that makes sense.

What I mean by "from a secular view" is that secular academia is obviously more willing to entertain Zoroaster as the first Prophet of Monotheism, than Prophet Adam ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)), due to clear historicity and archaeological evidence (as well as the dating of many ancient Zoroastrian texts). My emphasis is on that he is a historically important Prophet, that's all.

Zoroastrianism itself is inherently Monotheisic, I've studied it, I have great respect for our Mazdean brothers and sisters, I believe they're within the fold of Ahl al-Kitab (as your link also states). 

Thing is, just like Jews and Christians, their original Revelations (in the manner of the Qur'an) haven't survived and what Zoroastrianism has remaining are more Hymns and Rituals. The Hymns in particular are in the manner of the Psalms of David (from the Bible) and Al-Sahifa al-Sajjadiyya of our Imam Zayn al-Abidin ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)). 

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On 4/5/2019 at 9:47 AM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Not possible, he didn't believe in a Creator , encouraged his disciples to eat pork and practiced asceticism.   

Buddha did not encourage his disciples to eat pork, they were strictly vegetarian.

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7 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

I've yet to see one of our ulema say "alayhi salaam" after Buddha, which is for the Prophets and messengers and Ahlul Bayt.

What classifies one as among the Ulema? Is it those whom you consider as ulema?  If so, then your argument is not logical.  

7 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

There is no evidence he was a nabi, otherwise where do we draw the line in non Biblical past religious founders or personalities? 

There is no evidence he was NOT a Nabi.  Why do you arbitrary draw a line when the Qur’anic verses clearly state that there has not been a people except that a messenger was sent to them to speak to them in their own language.  

7 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Would you say Zoroaster (عليه السلام), Mani (عليه السلام), Mahavira (عليه السلام) or Laozi (عليه السلام) too?

Based on what exactly?

 

It is the same basis that you ultimately have faith (Iman) in Seyyidna Muhammad Mustafa(S) as a Prophet of God and His Book (Qur'an).  Do you have faith in him and his Book because of the “ulema”?  Do you have have faith in him and his Book because your parents said so?  

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On 5/23/2019 at 5:26 AM, eThErEaL said:

What classifies one as among the Ulema?  

Someone who is properly qualified and has credentials from a hawza, obviously.

On 5/23/2019 at 5:26 AM, eThErEaL said:

 Why do you arbitrary draw a line when the Qur’anic verses clearly state that there has not been a people except that a messenger was sent to them to speak to them in their own language.  

Because as a matter of precaution, I am not going to be boldly speaking out of that which I have no knowledge. Yes every nation had a Prophet, but none can say for sure regarding Buddha, and that is the honest truth. No one here will dispute Jesus (عليه السلام) being a Prophet, because there is consensus and explicit in the Qur'an.

There is NO consensus for Buddha being a Prophet and as I said no ulema have said so, unless you can provide some names of those whom YOU consider to be ulema.

On 5/23/2019 at 5:26 AM, eThErEaL said:

It is the same basis that you ultimately have faith (Iman) in Seyyidna Muhammad Mustafa(S) as a Prophet of God and His Book (Qur'an).  

If you want to hold Buddha being a Prophet of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) based on your iman that is your call. I believe and accept the Prophet Muhammad saw and in the Qur'an because it is the Haq. End of, no mu'min here will dispute this is the truth either.

If you want to blindly state (because that is what you are doing) that Buddha was sent by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and is one of the ma'soom Prophets, especially without any scholarship backing this view, then you are just talking on a whim. That is the difference.

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49 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Someone who is properly qualified and has credentials from a hawza, obviously.

So, ONLY those accredited from a Shia hawza are those whom you consider as ulema in Islam?  

Secondly, are ALL the “ulema” in denial that the Buddha is a Prophet of God?

Thirdly, why must the truth or falsity of my assertion that the Buddha is a Prophet of God be the sole prerogative of the “ulema” when I have never claimed this to be any sort of essential pillar of faith in Islamic doctrine.  In other words, I don’t consider one who holds his judgement on the Buddha as someone who is not a faithful Muslim.  And as a matter of fact, I also wouldn’t consider one who denies that the Buddha is a Prophet of God as someone who is not a faithful Muslim.

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Because as a matter of precaution, I am not going to be boldly speaking out of that which I have no knowledge.

And that is what you ought to do!  And neither should you boldly speak out against my assertion for it may be that I know something you don’t.  (And God knows best)

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Yes every nation had a Prophet, but none can say for sure regarding Buddha, and that is the honest truth. No one here will dispute Jesus (عليه السلام) being a Prophet, because there is consensus and explicit in the Qur'an.

I can say for sure that the Buddha had a prophetic function and that he was a man from God - to me this is very obvious and I would be lying about something that I can clearly see.  Alhamdulillah.

I cannot assert this as a doctrine of Islam though.

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There is NO consensus for Buddha being a Prophet and as I said no ulema have said so, unless you can provide some names of those whom YOU consider to be ulema.

As I mentioned before, this is not the prerogative of the ulema. 

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If you want to hold Buddha being a Prophet of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) based on your iman that is your call. I believe and accept the Prophet Muhammad saw and in the Qur'an because it is the Haq. End of, no mu'min here will dispute this is the truth either.

It is my call.  You are right.

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If you want to blindly state (because that is what you are doing) that Buddha was sent by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and is one of the ma'soom Prophets, especially without any scholarship backing this view, then you are just talking on a whim. That is the difference.

I am not blindly speaking, I have studied Buddhism.  

And on a side note, in case you are interested, I recommend you to read this book by a group of Muslim scholars (who, for the record are those I consider to be among the ulema):

http://www.islambuddhism.com/docs/CommonGround.pdf

Thanking you

ethereal

Edited by eThErEaL

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