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In the Name of God بسم الله
Propaganda_of_the_Deed

Did Imam Ali ((عليه السلام)) set fire to female couple?

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Hadiths like these are taking the people out of the fold of Islam and such narrations are quoted by many in the western world to shun away people from Islam and make them believe that Islamic Sharia is some barbaric code of law.

Once we know that some people are genetically prone to homosexuality , who can justify such a barbaric stone age punishment inflicted upon a couple for just being homosexual? I wonder what was going in minds of the Hadithists when they were penning down such narrations and those who were "authenticating" them down the line.

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32 minutes ago, Leibniz said:

Hadiths like these are taking the people out of the fold of Islam and such narrations are quoted by many in the western world to shun away people from Islam and make them believe that Islamic Sharia is some barbaric code of law.

Once we know that some people are genetically prone to homosexuality , who can justify such a barbaric stone age punishment inflicted upon a couple for just being homosexual? I wonder what was going in minds of the Hadithists when they were penning down such narrations and those who were "authenticating" them down the line.

I agree, we see many Shias proudly distancing and dustinguishing from the likes of IS who spawned from Salafism.

One of the arguments in supporting Assad in Syria for example was to prevent the barbarism and brutal rule of IS, much of their Shariah implementation being widely criticised and giving Islam a bad name, they literally tied people (not disimilar to Ayatollah Khoei's description quoted earlier) to a chair and chucked them off buildings.

In a true Islamic state according to Shi'I fiqh, would gays face the same consequences as IS who everyone says are extremists?

Also the beheading of the child seems harsh if true and I always believed Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was known for justice, so not quite sure how I feel about that.

That being said, I am not one of these liberals who stand for lgbtxyz and whatever else is out there, but just personally think a death penalty is a bit harsh.

Allah knows best of course

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1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

but I don't find any relation to Sharh of Man la Yahduruhu Al-Faqih

 

Not sure if I should post the link as it is an anti Shia site but they post a lot of scans from prominent Shia literature, at the end of the article is a scan from that book apparently authenticating the narration. Not sure how legit.

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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2 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

but I don't find any relation to Sharh of Man la Yahduruhu Al-Faqih

There are many hadith on the subject where the punishment of Sodomy (men) &  that of Sehaq (women) has been detailed on the basis of the severity / categorization including the lashes and killing like adultery

http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/الكتب/1598_جامع-أحاديث-الشيعة-السيد-البروجردي-ج-٢٥/الصفحة_444#top

However the grading of the hadith is not mentioned in this collection.

Edited by skyweb1987

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12 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

brother - Sodom and Gomorah...way before Islam and even Christianity

Yes of course brother I remember now.

I know the story of Sodom and Gomorah very well. I used to do some acting work. I played a role of one of two messengers that brought the message of gods wrath on the city in a television documentary about Sodom and Gomorah.

I am not so familiar with other stories from the bible but that one was an interesting way of learning. 

Edited by Murtaza1

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Hey. You guys want to know a secret?

In hell, people actually burn and as their skin melts, new skin replaces it so the pain repeats. Imagine that, its even in the holy Qur'an. Must be fake.

Making people get out of the fold of Islam...

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I think one has to understand the wisdom behind such punishments as demonstrated through hadiths, the Prophet and Imams (peace and blessings be upon them all) were merciful towards these offenders possibly meaning that these punishments rather act as deterrents AND also something very curious is that someone who commits murder can be forgiven by the family of the victim and he would not be punished for it then why wouldn’t Allah the Most Merciful forgive someone who commits a less severe sin than murder such as a homosexual act

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3 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Also the beheading of the child seems harsh if true and I always believed Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was known for justice, so not quite sure how I feel about that.

We do have the example of Khidr [a] slaying a child in the Qur'an, a preemptive strike, because of what the child was going to grow up and do.

That's punishment before the crime was even committed. Quite the eye brow raiser. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) works in mysterious ways. Whatever He does is just.

I agree the punishments are brutal. There I was brought up being taught that a single strike beheading is how it's done to make it as painless as possible. Perhaps the more a criminal suffers here, the lesser the punishment up there, where the punishment is deadly.

You'd think, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) the Most Merciful, can punish with such severity? An eternal burning in the Flame. Such is the recompense for one's earnings.

*Shudders*

Edited by Jaane Rabb

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3 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

I agree, we see many Shias proudly distancing and dustinguishing from the likes of IS who spawned from Salafism.

One of the arguments in supporting Assad in Syria for example was to prevent the barbarism and brutal rule of IS, much of their Shariah implementation being widely criticised and giving Islam a bad name, they literally tied people (not disimilar to Ayatollah Khoei's description quoted earlier) to a chair and chucked them off buildings.

In a true Islamic state according to Shi'I fiqh, would gays face the same consequences as IS who everyone says are extremists?

Also the beheading of the child seems harsh if true and I always believed Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was known for justice, so not quite sure how I feel about that.

That being said, I am not one of these liberals who stand for lgbtxyz and whatever else is out there, but just personally think a death penalty is a bit harsh.

Allah knows best of course

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Brother PD

Assalam Alikum.

What is the problem of the punishment?  Don't you think a person who committed a grave sin would rather be punished in dunya instead of akheera?  

Many times Imam Ali would turn away the person who came to him and they would say to him to cleanse them of their sins, he would turn them away and say to leave.  When people are insistent of the sin they committed over three times, he implements the punishment.  

I always ask Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to punish me in the dunya instead of taking the sins with me to akheera.  I'd rather face the burns of dunya instead of hell, that's a no brainer for me.

We need to do constant Istigfar, and to frequently ask for forgiveness from the sins we know we committed, forgotten, or didn't pay attention or realized we were sinning.

What will you call the Imam of your Time, are you going to call him an extremist too if he implements God's laws?  Please be careful how you are stating your words brother, if you don't know something say I don't know and I would rather not say something to displease Allah, Rasoul Allah or my Imams.

The sin of homosexuality is a grave sin.  It should not be taken lightly or to encourage others to practice this sin publicly.

You have this freak of nature, Freddie Mercury who is getting recent attention by Rami Malek's role and receiving Best Actor in the Oscars.  Please don't think that a first generation American from Egypt happened to receive this award by accident.  This was done intentionally.  They are trying to make homosexuality in our region acceptable like it is in West.  We don't want this filth openly infested in our countries.


 

Quote

 

 “Thank you, Queen. Thank you, guys, for allowing me to be the tiniest part of your phenomenal, extraordinary legacy. I am forever in your debt . . . I may not have been the obvious choice, but I guess it worked out . . . My crew and my cast, I love you. You are my equals. You are my betters . . . To anyone struggling with [their identity] and trying to discover their voice. Listen, we made a film about a gay man, an immigrant . . . We’re longing for stories like this. I am the son of immigrants from Egypt. I’m a first-generation American. Part of my story is being written right now.”


 

 

Not even a significant awards-season scandal could stop Malek. The day after the actor was nominated for an Oscar, The Atlantic published a massive and damning piece on Bohemian Rhapsody director Bryan Singer, which allegedly corroborated long-gestating rumors about Singer’s relationships with underage boys. Singer has denied the allegations. Initially, Malek and his cohort tried to ignore the Singer issue on the circuit, neglecting to thank the director in their acceptance speeches and declining to discuss him at the Golden Globes. That strategy was undermined by Singer’s own social media, when the director took credit for Rhapsody’s big night at the Golden Globes.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/02/oscars-2019-rami-malek-wins-best-actor-speech-bryan-singer

Millions of people tuned in to the Oscars to see “Bohemian Rhapsody,” the biopic of Queen frontman Freddie Mercury, compete for best picture, which “Green Book” ended up winning.

There were a lot of people cheering against “Bohemian Rhapsody.” The film has been dogged by accusations of homophobia, and the film’s director, Bryan Singer, was accused of rape and sexual abuse.

But as a gay historian, I keep coming back to something else – the tragic history that’s glaringly absent from this movie.

Mercury, along with all the other men and women who tested positive for HIV in the 1980s, was a victim not just of a pandemic but of the failures of his own governments and of the scorn of his fellow citizens. The laughable initial response to the HIV pandemic helped seal Mercury’s fate.

None of that is in the movie.

https://theprint.in/culture/the-freddie-mercury-story-that-goes-untold-in-bohemian-rhapsody/200145/

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

Edited by Laayla

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6 hours ago, Leibniz said:

Once we know that some people are genetically prone to homosexuality , who can justify such a barbaric stone age punishment inflicted upon a couple for just being homosexual? I wonder what was going in minds of the Hadithists when they were penning down such narrations and those who were "authenticating" them down the line.

Homosexual is not a punishable but doing the sexual act is. The severe sin the more severe punishment, this severity is meant for the ummah to take very seriously so the act can't spread to masses.

Edited by Abu Nur

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These hadiths are not suitable for average Muslims, and they shouldn’t be posted on public forums like this because it will only confuse people, and hadiths like these cause people to doubt in their validity, but there is things in Islam that are difficult to comprehend. Allah has His unique ways of punishments for certain sins and we cannot question them. Imam Ali (عليه السلام) being the ruler of the Muslims during his time, implemented severe punishments to people for certain sins in order to purify their soul and show others the severity of that sin. The punishment in this world will save you the pain and torture in the next world, and if you ask me that’s a very good deal. Not many people think about it that way, they just judge what they see with their eyes and what they understand from their limited intellect.

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18 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Not sure if I should post the link as it is an anti Shia site but they post a lot of scans from prominent Shia literature, at the end of the article is a scan from that book apparently authenticating the narration. Not sure how legit.

Salam they point on issues that abandoned or doesn't practice in Shia fiqh from time of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) because these type of ruling only can be done by an infallible Imam (عليه السلام) that has governance in his hands & can judges people based on their divine knowledge that can read minds & hearts of people than judges them that only happened by Prophet Davood (David) (عليه السلام) & one time happened with Prophet Khidr (عليه السلام) that Prophet Musa (عليه السلام) can't handle it even Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was judging based on evidences although he could read minds & hearts of people that this type of judgment will revive after reappearance of Imam Mahdi (aj) that he & his judges will judge based on reading minds & hearts of people that they won't need evidence but their judgment are completely flawless & will accept by all people but also the anti Shia sites ignore the stories before it that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was providing ways for forgiving people but their muftis in KSA (Hijaz) & ISIS  behead & crucify & burn people for matters that is not defined as sin in Islam.

18 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

I agree, we see many Shias proudly distancing and dustinguishing from the likes of IS who spawned from Salafism.

One of the arguments in supporting Assad in Syria for example was to prevent the barbarism and brutal rule of IS, much of their Shariah implementation being widely criticised and giving Islam a bad name, they literally tied people (not disimilar to Ayatollah Khoei's description quoted earlier) to a chair and chucked them off buildings.

In a true Islamic state according to Shi'I fiqh, would gays face the same consequences as IS who everyone says are extremists?

Also the beheading of the child seems harsh if true and I always believed Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was known for justice, so not quite sure how I feel about that.

That being said, I am not one of these liberals who stand for lgbtxyz and whatever else is out there, but just personally think a death penalty is a bit harsh.

Allah knows best of course

the practices of ISIS & Salafism are coming from ignorance time & jewish sources that don't have any connection to Islam but they portrayed it as Shariah to make people away from Islam 

"In a true Islamic state according to Shi'I fiqh" people only judge based on their actions not their intention ,being a gay is not a sin but committing homosexuality is a grave sin 

the term of "غلام" here refers to a teenager that becomes mature enough after 15 that clearly knows right & wrong I never read or see that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) punished a child it's just an bad translation that translated to child 

death penalty is last choice in Islam but people are yelling for death penalty there is many stories in Sunni sources that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) prevented from doing many death penalties by second caliph but anti Shia sites just focus on a tradition that is has a strong base to condemn Shias but they praise second caliph for his rude behavior & doing extreme harsh punishments specially against women 

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Anybody can paint anything Islamic with their own colors of narrow prejudices and preferences. The matter of fact is this: in Islam, you love the creation for the sake of Allah, and you dislike the creation for the sake Allah. 

Here are more one liners for your next posts!

Did Prophet Muhammad (sawaw) order all men of a rebellious tribe in Medina to be beheaded?

Did Prophet Muhammad’s grandfather invite the wrath of Allah on the elepalhant army so all thousand of them would be smashed into shreds?

Did Prophet Suleman (عليه السلام) order all of his SLAVE Humans and Djins to toil in building him new cities and towns?

Did Prophet David (عليه السلام) kill rebellious giants and left them to be eaten by worms and birds?

Did Prophet Lut (عليه السلام) move out of his town, ‘silently so others won’t be spared’ before God destroyed the whole town by crushing each one of them?

Did Prophet Noah (عليه السلام) board the Ship leaving everybody else to die by painful death of drowning?

 

Edited by AMR5

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@AMR5 Mate you need to relax.

There is no harm in asking questions, rather than burying seemingly umcomfortable events as may be perceived by non-Muslims or non Shia or shutting down discussion altogether.

Another sect chooses to sweep things under the rug.

At the very least others have found out about various punishments for this according to our fiqh who did not know otherwise.

Admins - you can close the thread if you see fit.

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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Bismehe Ta3ala 

Assalam Alikum Brother PD

Please do continue to ask questions.  There are many other people who are thinking the same way, but Alhamd'Allah you go a step further and ask.  

If I came off as harsh, I'm sorry I didn't mean to communicate in such a way.  

God reward you for asking about the punishments in Islam.

M3 Salamah, Fe Amin Allah 

 

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