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In the Name of God بسم الله

Which One Do You Love More: God or...?

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Love is very subjective. I relate to Imam Ali the most to be honest. (Not saying he is higher or any shirk type of comparison.) So there is a strong connection for me.

It's one of the reasons I chose zaidi I feel they represent Imam Ali the best.

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Salaam

Loving the Prophets and Imams and believing in what they preached would be loving Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), as they were His divine representatives on this Earth, a reflection of His holy attributes. Imam Ali (عليه السلام) said “in everything I see, I see Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) before it, in it and after it”. But of course the short answer to your question is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

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On 3/1/2019 at 8:14 PM, Ralvi said:

[EDIT] you’re conflating

just how is loving one not loving the other?

thats the real question 

Well, I love the latter more for the following reasons (I know that there is something wrong in my arguments but I don’t know what it is):

1. God could have prevented many bad incidents (wars, massacres, tortures, child abuse cases,...) which happened throughout history but he didnt. I know it was against his laws but were these laws more important than the suffering of his creatures?!

But when the Prophets and Imams were alive, they helped people whenever they could. They were very kind and empathetic.

2. God is infallible. So were the Prophets and Imams but their infallibility was different in nature. I know that God can be cruel but since there is no anger, envy, greed,... in his nature, therefore it is very easy for him to be infallible. Since He knows everyone and everything it is too easy for him to be a good judge and have correct judgements. But it is not so for humans due to their lack of knowledge.

3. Prophets and Imams had difficult lives. They suffered a lot. But God never suffered. He has always been in full welfare!

I know that we don’t know many things about him and that our perception of him is incomplete; like an incomplete puzzle. But such questions inevitably come to your mind.

Edited by Hassan-
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57 minutes ago, shadow_of_light said:

None of them.

I was just filling in the banks. As in whomever loves something other than or besides God is of those three. My comment was not meant to be a personal attack towards you if you thought that.

32 minutes ago, shadow_of_light said:

1. God could have prevented many bad incidents (wars, massacres, tortures, child abuse cases,...) which happened throughout history but he didnt. I know it was against his laws but were these laws more important than the suffering of his creatures?!

You forget that He gave us freewill and the ability to do good or bad as a way to test us. It's less about the laws and more about being just and doing good. Inevitably, when people have a choice, bad things will happen. He could have prevented them but don't think that they won't be punished for their actions in the Afterlife. 

45 minutes ago, shadow_of_light said:

2. God is infallible. So were the Prophets and Imams but their infallibility was different in nature. I know that God can be cruel but since there is no anger, envy, greed,... in his nature, therefore it is very easy for him to be infallible. Since He knows everyone and everything it is too easy for him to be a good judge and have correct judgements. But it is not so for humans due to their lack of knowledge.

Indeed  and although, you may relate to them better, long for a chance to have met and love the stories behind the Imams/Prophets. What we have of them may not be legit  or real hadiths. The Qur'an doesn't have that problem and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is always near you and is perpetually forgiving.

1 hour ago, shadow_of_light said:

3. Prophets and Imams had difficult lives. They suffered a lot. But God never suffered. He has always been in full welfare!

He knows you better than anyone, forgives you again and again and will give you a way out of your suffering. Human suffering is not a reason put to the Imams  as equal or greater than Allah in respect or love. This type of thinking is getting close to ghulww.

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2 hours ago, shadow_of_light said:

Well, I love the latter more for the following reasons (I know that there is something wrong in my arguments but I don’t know what it is):

1. God could have prevented many bad incidents (wars, massacres, tortures, child abuse cases,...) which happened throughout history but he didnt. I know it was against his laws but were these laws more important than the suffering of his creatures?!

But when the Prophets and Imams were alive, they helped people whenever they could. They were very kind and empathetic.

2. God is infallible. So were the Prophets and Imams but their infallibility was different in nature. I know that God can be cruel but since there is no anger, envy, greed,... in his nature, therefore it is very easy for him to be infallible. Since He knows everyone and everything it is too easy for him to be a good judge and have correct judgements. But it is not so for humans due to their lack of knowledge.

3. Prophets and Imams had difficult lives. They suffered a lot. But God never suffered. He has always been in full welfare!

I know that we don’t know many things about him and that our perception of him is incomplete; like an incomplete puzzle. But such questions inevitably come to your mind.

I think it’s enough to say that you love Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) but you don’t understand him

you can’t attribute those things you just said

he is the most merciful. How could we know what he knows, feels and sees?

we can’t even apply those descriptors to him because he is greater

I suggest for your own benefit to not think this way, those were rather shocking words

for me loving Imam Ali(عليه السلام)and Rasoolullah (SAAWS) and all the ahulbayt is loving Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), they are basis through which I can claim legitimacy in my love for him and asking of him and praying to him. It’s one and the same. Loving one doesn’t mean I don’t love the other. And because of them this love doenst become stagnant it only grows bigger becuase I love my creator more and more. 

indeed we humans are the selfish ones not him

if I could relate a feeling we share, is to that of a parent. For parents out there how much does it pain you to even think of someone abusing and murdering your precious child? Now imagine someone doing it despite your pleading, in front of your eyes

in the end ahulbayt and all of us are Allahs(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) children. So can you imagine the pain we caused with the senseless and incessant murdering of his precious ones?

we can’t even fathom Janabe Sayedas(SA) pain

how could we know what Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) tolerates?

subhanallah my God is merciful, patient, caring, forgiving and the best of all judgers, the love he possesses- that it shines through his creations

the capacity for emotions and bonds all emanating  from the one who originated them

It hurts to even think how much pain we have caused our creator. Even if the word I chose are not correct and are lacking, still I know you understand what I mean 

Edited by Ralvi
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11 hours ago, Ralvi said:

I think it’s enough to say that you love Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) but you don’t understand him

you can’t attribute those things you just said

he is the most merciful. How could we know what he knows, feels and sees?

we can’t even apply those descriptors to him because he is greater

I suggest for your own benefit to not think this way, those were rather shocking words

for me loving Imam Ali(عليه السلام)and Rasoolullah (SAAWS) and all the ahulbayt is loving Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), they are basis through which I can claim legitimacy in my love for him and asking of him and praying to him. It’s one and the same. Loving one doesn’t mean I don’t love the other. And because of them this love doenst become stagnant it only grows bigger becuase I love my creator more and more. 

indeed we humans are the selfish ones not him

if I could relate a feeling we share, is to that of a parent. For parents out there how much does it pain you to even think of someone abusing and murdering your precious child? Now imagine someone doing it despite your pleading, in front of your eyes

in the end ahulbayt and all of us are Allahs(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) children. So can you imagine the pain we caused with the senseless and incessant murdering of his precious ones?

we can’t even fathom Janabe Sayedas(SA) pain

how could we know what Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) tolerates?

subhanallah my God is merciful, patient, caring, forgiving and the best of all judgers, the love he possesses- that it shines through his creations

the capacity for emotions and bonds all emanating  from the one who originated them

It hurts to even think how much pain we have caused our creator. Even if the word I chose are not correct and are lacking, still I know you understand what I mean 

@eThErEaL @Ralvi @ShiaMan14.

Definitely loving Prophet saww and Imams is loving Allah.But this love should be primarily because of Love of Allah.

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@islam25

I think this whole conversation about who do you love more between God and XYZ is moot.

There are different kinds of love. The love a mother has for a child than the love a mother has for Allah and it is different than the love the same woman has for her mother.

So I can say I love Allah more as my creator but I love Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) more as my Prophet and there would no elements of shirk in this.

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On 3/1/2019 at 1:43 PM, shadow_of_light said:

God or the Prophets and Imams?

Why this question?

If I would ask you if you love the angels or God more?

How would you feel considering yourself to be a Muslim?

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14 hours ago, shadow_of_light said:

Well, I love the latter more for the following reasons (I know that there is something wrong in my arguments but I don’t know what it is):

1. God could have prevented many bad incidents (wars, massacres, tortures, child abuse cases,...) which happened throughout history but he didnt. I know it was against his laws but were these laws more important than the suffering of his creatures?!

But when the Prophets and Imams were alive, they helped people whenever they could. They were very kind and empathetic.

2. God is infallible. So were the Prophets and Imams but their infallibility was different in nature. I know that God can be cruel but since there is no anger, envy, greed,... in his nature, therefore it is very easy for him to be infallible. Since He knows everyone and everything it is too easy for him to be a good judge and have correct judgements. But it is not so for humans due to their lack of knowledge.

3. Prophets and Imams had difficult lives. They suffered a lot. But God never suffered. He has always been in full welfare!

I know that we don’t know many things about him and that our perception of him is incomplete; like an incomplete puzzle. But such questions inevitably come to your mind.

And [yet], among the people are those who take other than Allah as equals [to Him]. They love them as they [should] love Allah. But those who believe are stronger in love for Allah. And if only they who have wronged would consider [that] when they see the punishment, [they will be certain] that all power belongs to Allah and that Allah is severe in punishment.

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Salam...

Love is not easy to define.  Love has levels,  results and consequences.

We can say we love Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) the most.  How do we love Him? And that love should transformed us into a slave.  And then Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will in return love us and made all Angels love us.  A real slave see everything is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

All humans, in reality and by nature love the Creator.  Ali, Abu Bakr, Umar, Othman and us love Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), and what the results and consequences?

We need to love the Prophet and Imams in order to know the secret on how to show the true love to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

While we make the intention to truly love Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) the highest, because He is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). We need to love the Prophet and Imams to manifest our true love to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) in a purest manner.

There is one method to show true love to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) with results and consequences...but that method is with the Slaves of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), Muhammad and His Ahlul Bayt.  Be with them and love them, the method will be revealed...and not everything.

Edited by layman
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1 hour ago, layman said:

Salam...

Love is not easy to define.  Love has levels,  results and consequences.

We can say we love Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) the most.  How do we love Him? And that love should transformed us into a slave.  And then Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will in return love us and made all Angels love us.  A real slave see everything is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

All humans, in reality and by nature love the Creator.  Ali, Abu Bakr, Umar, Othman and us love Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), and what the results and consequences?

We need to love the Prophet and Imams in order to know the secret on how to show the true love to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

While we make the intention to truly love Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) the highest, because He is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). We need to love the Prophet and Imams to manifest our true love to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) in a purest manner.

There is one method to show true love to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) with results and consequences...but that method is with the Slaves of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), Muhammad and His Ahlul Bayt.  Be with them and love them, the method will be revealed...and not everything.

Yup yup 

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On 3/2/2019 at 1:45 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I was just filling in the banks. As in whomever loves something other than or besides God is of those three. My comment was not meant to be a personal attack towards you if you thought that.

 

He knows you better than anyone, forgives you again and again and will give you a way out of your suffering. Human suffering is not a reason put to the Imams  as equal or greater than Allah in respect or love. This type of thinking is getting close to ghulww.

I knew you were just filling in the blanks. I meant that loving the latter more than the former doesnt necessarily mean that the person is a, b or c. There can be other options too. A pagan and and an atheist even don’t believe in Prophets/ Imams.

Considering that loving someone is out of control, do you think that loving the Prophets/ Imams more than God is a sin or shirk even if the person believes that no one is equal or superior to God?

 

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On 3/2/2019 at 2:36 PM, Ralvi said:

I think it’s enough to say that you love Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) but you don’t understand him

you can’t attribute those things you just said

he is the most merciful. How could we know what he knows, feels and sees?

we can’t even apply those descriptors to him because he is greater

I suggest for your own benefit to not think this way, those were rather shocking words

for me loving Imam Ali(عليه السلام)and Rasoolullah (SAAWS) and all the ahulbayt is loving Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), they are basis through which I can claim legitimacy in my love for him and asking of him and praying to him. It’s one and the same. Loving one doesn’t mean I don’t love the other. And because of them this love doenst become stagnant it only grows bigger becuase I love my creator more and more. 

indeed we humans are the selfish ones not him

if I could relate a feeling we share, is to that of a parent. For parents out there how much does it pain you to even think of someone abusing and murdering your precious child? Now imagine someone doing it despite your pleading, in front of your eyes

in the end ahulbayt and all of us are Allahs(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) children. So can you imagine the pain we caused with the senseless and incessant murdering of his precious ones?

we can’t even fathom Janabe Sayedas(SA) pain

how could we know what Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) tolerates?

subhanallah my God is merciful, patient, caring, forgiving and the best of all judgers, the love he possesses- that it shines through his creations

the capacity for emotions and bonds all emanating  from the one who originated them

It hurts to even think how much pain we have caused our creator. Even if the word I chose are not correct and are lacking, still I know you understand what I mean 

Actually a question in my mind is that if God has feelings or not?! If he "becomes" sad, happy,...?! We know that there is no change in his nature, so....?!

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18 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

@islam25

I think this whole conversation about who do you love more between God and XYZ is moot.

There are different kinds of love. The love a mother has for a child than the love a mother has for Allah and it is different than the love the same woman has for her mother.

 

Yes, it is true. Now, what do you think about loving your children more than God?! It is out of control so you can not decide to love one more than the other. Besides, this is God himself which gives you this motherly love.

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13 hours ago, Faruk said:

Why this question?

If I would ask you if you love the angels or God more?

How would you feel considering yourself to be a Muslim?

A Muslim is a person who believes in Allah, Qur'an, the next world and His messengers.

How much you love Him, can determine the level of your cognition and iman.

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6 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

I would like to request the mods to lock and delete this topic. It goes against the fundamental beliefs of our religion.

Wallahu a'lam 

don’t be strict. Let people ask their questions as long as they don’t insult. Without asking, we cannot find the answers to our questions. It is not against the fundamental beliefs of our religion.

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