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King

Pakistan Vs India

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30 minutes ago, Khadim uz Zahra said:

Video of the captured pilot being interviewed by the Pakistani Army:

 

I hope what he's saying is not under pressure or forced. Pakistan must respect it's obligation under Article 3 of Geneva Conventions. 

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Imran Khan, PM of Pakistan just gave a press conference. He said:

We told India, if you do something, we will have to retaliate. I don't have an option but to retaliate if you violate our sovereignty. No country can be "Judge, Jury, and Executioner". I still knew they would do something because they are about to have elections. We had to do this. We tried to do no collateral damage. We didn't do anything yesterday because no one on our side died yesterday so it would not be fair to attack without knowing the overall situation.

We must use wisdom. Wars are started with miscalculations. World war 1 was a miscalculation. World war 2 was a miscalculation. America's war on terror and Vietnam war was a miscalculation. World's history tells us not to start wars.

I want to ask India, where do we go from here? I want to ask, the type of weapons we have, can we afford a miscalculation? If we escalate, it will be out of my control and it would be out of your control.

I want to repeat again, we are saddened by Pulwama tragedy. If you have some method to tackle terrorism, I am ready for dialogue. I am still waiting. Nevertheless, we should use diplomacy.

Edited by King

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No good can come of this war. We don't need more countries in that part of the world engaging in warfare. All this does is feed into the theory that war profiteers and defense contractors from the West perpetuate wars to incease profits.

As the son of Indian immigrants, who has a lot of family that is Pakistani, I fear for my families on both sides of the border. Its bad enough for Shi'a in Pakistan these days without having the spectre of war hanging over their heads. In India, the ignorant, uneducated or undereducated Hindu mobs are a major problem. Half of them can't read or write properly and only need to be incited with the smallest rumor and they go on a killing rampage wearing saffron looking for Muslims to attack.

Hopefully, this de-escalates quickly as it has in the past. We see a flare up every so often just so both sides can rattle their sabers and then within a week or so everything is forgotten.

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I can't stand a fact that some people cannot understand fold of events and trying to find excuses for Pakistan's mischief. 

For decades, they have been involved in producing terrorism on their soil and failed to reign in terrorists. Instead they are let loose and their leaders campaign for elections. Their power in Pakistan politically or otherwise is well-known and cannot be denied. These monsters have not only attacked 'enemies of Pakistan' but thousands of Shias are targeted in Pakistan alone. Exports to Afghanistan and other parts of the world has caused more Shias to die. Should you not thank India for clearing this mess for you? 

After all these happening for decades, common sense only dictates that either Pakistani government doesn't have enough prowess to kick menance of terrorism out of their land (which I don't believe to be true) or they're actively supporting them and providing land and other means to recruit and train youngsters to make them dream of virgins and become fidayeen. 

If these fidayeen coming straight from terror factory, enters our Nation and kill our people time and again without any accountability from the country who nurtured them then it's right for the victim nation to take matters in it's own hand and take steps to avoid any future misadventure. JeM had the terror factory booming right across the border and planning on more such attacks on Indian soil. Should we stand and wait for attack to happen and mourn the dead and condemn the attack or take preemptive measures to thwart any such attacks. India exactly did that and must repeat again if situation demands. 

Talking about Imran Khan's peace talks and investigations into the attack, Hafiz Saeed, proven mastermind of Mumbai 26/11 attack has not been handed to India nor has been tried in his country even after dossiers after dossiers handed to Pakistan by subsequent government. He is instead filling candidates and is involved in Politics. India already handed dossier to high commission of Pakistan regarding recent attack for those asking for proof. 

Hand over Hafiz Saeed, Masood Azhar and then we can sit for a dialogue. 

Let's walk the talk. 

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17 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

I can't stand a fact that some people cannot understand fold of events and trying to find excuses for Pakistan's mischief. 

For decades, they have been involved in producing terrorism on their soil and failed to reign in terrorists. Instead they are let loose and their leaders campaign for elections. Their power in Pakistan politically or otherwise is well-known and cannot be denied. These monsters have not only attacked 'enemies of Pakistan' but thousands of Shias are targeted in Pakistan alone. Exports to Afghanistan and other parts of the world has caused more Shias to die. Should you not thank India for clearing this mess for you? 

After all these happening for decades, common sense only dictates that either Pakistani government doesn't have enough prowess to kick menance of terrorism out of their land (which I don't believe to be true) or they're actively supporting them and providing land and other means to recruit and train youngsters to make them dream of virgins and become fidayeen. 

If these fidayeen coming straight from terror factory, enters our Nation and kill our people time and again without any accountability from the country who nurtured them then it's right for the victim nation to take matters in it's own hand and take steps to avoid any future misadventure. JeM had the terror factory booming right across the border and planning on more such attacks on Indian soil. Should we stand and wait for attack to happen and mourn the dead and condemn the attack or take preemptive measures to thwart any such attacks. India exactly did that and must repeat again if situation demands. 

Talking about Imran Khan's peace talks and investigations into the attack, Hafiz Saeed, proven mastermind of Mumbai 26/11 attack has not been handed to India nor has been tried in his country even after dossiers after dossiers handed to Pakistan by subsequent government. He is instead filling candidates and is involved in Politics. India already handed dossier to high commission of Pakistan regarding recent attack for those asking for proof. 

Hand over Hafiz Saeed, Masood Azhar and then we can sit for a dialogue. 

Let's walk the talk. 

Oh get over yourself.  This whole India Pakistan conflict goes back to Kashmir.  India has nearly a million troops stationed in Kashmir, it is the most militarized region in the world. nearly 100 000 innocent Kashmiris killed, tortured, raped and brutalized for simply wanting freedom. What do you expect? People will just sit back and not be radicalized? Not seek help from foreign states? Are you really that naive about how the world works? Go read the human rights reports, this isn't some Pakistani propaganda. The Indian state has carried out mass terrorism in Kashmir, where is your condemnation for this? These are your fellow Muslims, yet you decide to blame everything on another state. Pulwama attack was disgusting, but it was still an attack on forces and not civilians.

Pakistan of course is not innocent in any of this and does back militant outfits time to time, but Pakistan has been the biggest victim of terrorism.  Pakistani army has suffered the most losses in fighting these extremists.  The same Jaesh leader also tried to assassinate Musharraf.

Imran Khan asked for evidence and was willing to fully cooperate. India provided NO PROOF and instead violated a nations sovereignty and dropped bombs, it is basically an act of war.  Modi has gone insane and will now be forced to reign back to avoid total embarrassment.

Shame that Muslims in India sit and defend a state that kills and brutalizes Muslims.

India has no moral high ground on this.  Both states are instruments of their own kind of terror and violence. 

Edited by King

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1 minute ago, King said:

This whole India Pakistan conflict goes back to Kashmir. Kashmir. Kashmir.. 

Kashmir doesn't come into equation no matter how many times you say.

It's been a decade since we provided you with 26/11 proofs but Pakistan has granted him impunity. You expect us to sit back and wait for another attack.

A reminder:

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4 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Kashmir doesn't come into equation no matter how many times you say.

It's been a decade since we provided you with 26/11 proofs but Pakistan has granted him impunity. You expect us to sit back and wait for another attack.

A reminder:

 

LOL Kashmir doesn't come into the equation but you want to bring in 26/11? You don't make any sense.  Unlike you I do condemn the Pakistani state for its transgressions, I am not a hypocrite.  Now move on.

Edited by King

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Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum.

@starlight

@Marbles

As Shias are the minorities in Pakistan and victims of terrorism, almost every month, what is your take on what is happening now in the region.

Is everyone to blame both India and Pakistan or one more than the other?

Excuse my ignorance, how are Shias treated in the Pakistani army.  Can they reach high ranks?

This is what I have been receiving on Telegram.  Your take please.

 

Image may contain: 1 person, text

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

 

Edited by Laayla

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Just now, King said:

LOL Kashmir doesn't come into the equation but you want to bring in 26/11? You don't make any sense.  Unlike you I do condemn the Pakistani state for its transgressions, I am not a hypocrite.  Now move on.

It doesn't. Neither am I a hypocrite. I never said what Indian army does in Kashmir is justified or not but is a terrorist attack on security forces justified. Whatever be the case, Indian Air strikes on JeM terror camps (it was not on military installations) were totally justified. No nation can sit and wait for another terror attack. It has right to defend itself. 

About 26/11 - You have messed up things. 

You ask for Masood Azhar (or Pakistan's) involvement in terrorist attack to take action. So I gave you example of how 26/11 dossiers were simply ignored and no action was taken since a decade. It is absolutely useless to engage in dialogue or provide proof. 

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6 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

It doesn't. Neither am I a hypocrite. I never said what Indian army does in Kashmir is justified or not but is a terrorist attack on security forces justified. Whatever be the case, Indian Air strikes on JeM terror camps (it was not on military installations) were totally justified. No nation can sit and wait for another terror attack. It has right to defend itself. 

About 26/11 - You have messed up things. 

You ask for Masood Azhar (or Pakistan's) involvement in terrorist attack to take action. So I gave you example of how 26/11 dossiers were simply ignored and no action was taken since a decade. It is absolutely useless to engage in dialogue or provide proof. 

You have a new PM on board in Pakistan.  He asked you explicitly for any intel or evidence and assured you he would help you resolve the issue.  You didn't provide any evidence of Pakistani states involvement and violated another nations sovereignty in a way which hasn't been done since 71.  Did you expect Pakistan to sit back? Well it wasn't going to and it just embarrassed the Indian military today.  Go ahead, encourage India to escalate the war and carry out more strikes, it would only lead to more international embarrassment.

Edited by King

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8 minutes ago, King said:

You have a new PM on board in Pakistan.  He asked you explicitly for any intel or evidence and assured you he would help you resolve the issue.  You didn't provide any evidence of Pakistani states involvement and violated another nations sovereignty in a way which hasn't been done since 71.  Did you expect Pakistan to sit back? Well it wasn't going to and it just embarrassed the Indian military today.  Go ahead, encourage India to escalate the war and carry out more strikes, it would only lead to more international embarrassment.

PMs change every few years but such statements from Pakistan is all old vine. Take action on previous proven culprits then expect us to sit on other side of the table. 

You have been violating our land since decades breeding terrorists and giving free access to recruit more. Don't expect us to sit back and wait for another attack. You haven't been able to keep in check terrorism on your territory. Guess who was getting embarrassed all these years. 

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1 hour ago, Laayla said:

Excuse my ignorance, how are Shias treated in the Pakistani army.  Can they reach high ranks?

My father was in the Army and well on his way to become a general but he died an early death. 

General Musa Khan from the hazara community served as commander in chief in Pakistan Army. 

Mushaf Ali Mir serves as Air chief marshall in the park airforce and there are others. Things are difficult for Shias in Pakistan on the whole but I don't think any extra discrimination exists in the forces.

About the telegram message, I don't understand what is he trying to say. Pakistan is on extremely good terms with China and Turkey,  things aren't bad with Iran either. Afghanistan is a separate issue. So exactly which neighbours has Pakistan created unrest with??

Edited by starlight

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Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum Sister @starlight

God bless his soul sister.  Rahamtul Allah 3lee.

It was in response to the suicide bomber attack to the 27 Iranian elite security forces.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/02/suicide-bomber-Pakistani-Iran-revolutionary-guard-claims-190219142215207.html

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

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both are in the wrong...
Pakistan harbors terrorists... JeM killed Iranians and Indians just before MBS went to Pakistan and gave them all bonuses.. Pakistan needs to do something about these terrorists and wahhabism spreading in their country..

Edited by abuhaydar

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12 hours ago, Khadim uz Zahra said:

Video of the captured pilot being interviewed by the Pakistani Army:

 

 

11 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

I hope what he's saying is not under pressure or forced. Pakistan must respect it's obligation under Article 3 of Geneva Conventions. 

100% he is being forced to drink the tea, he knows modi’s tea tastes better :cry:

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10 hours ago, starlight said:

My father was in the Army and well on his way to become a general but he died an early death. 

General Musa Khan from the hazara community served as commander in chief in Pakistan Army. 

Mushaf Ali Mir serves as Air chief marshall in the park airforce and there are others. Things are difficult for Shias in Pakistan on the whole but I don't think any extra discrimination exists in the forces.

About the telegram message, I don't understand what is he trying to say. Pakistan is on extremely good terms with China and Turkey,  things aren't bad with Iran either. Afghanistan is a separate issue. So exactly which neighbours has Pakistan created unrest with??

Well, things have taken a turn recently with Iran due to the recent bombing and, I imagine, other previous incidents that neither side would disclose (e.g. if they successfully stopped terrorosits from crossing the border, I don't imagine they'd be too willing to let it be well known, not if they could help it). Both sides are planning on building a fence along the border. Obviously, this is about more than a single incident.

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Any nation where the army or intelligence agencies are above the law show that they can act outside of the constitution because they might need to resort to human rights violations.

Pakistan's ISI and army don't have clean hands, whether it be in Bangladesh or against Shias. Just because Shias are able to hold high ranking positions in the army doesn't mean Shias as a people are not mistreated by the army https://www.bbc.com/news/world-Asia-44280552. ISI is well-known to have the power to arrest anyone in the country anytime, with an unknown number of prisoner in their thousands of secret jails. Most of the Pakistanis I've met are very proud of the country and army, to the point where they prioritize nationality over religion/school of thought. We need to remember we are Shia Muslims first and citizens of 'x' country second.

That being said, India occupies Kashmir similar to Israel's occupation of Palestinian lands. Pakistan has every right to work towards getting their occupied lands back.

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6 minutes ago, Jaabir said:

Any nation where the army or intelligence agencies are above the law show that they can act outside of the constitution because they might need to resort to human rights violations.

Pakistan's ISI and army don't have clean hands, whether it be in Bangladesh or against Shias. Just because Shias are able to hold high ranking positions in the army doesn't mean Shias as a people are not mistreated by the army https://www.bbc.com/news/world-Asia-44280552. ISI is well-known to have the power to arrest anyone in the country anytime, with an unknown number of prisoner in their thousands of secret jails. Most of the Pakistanis I've met are very proud of the country and army, to the point where they prioritize nationality over religion/school of thought. We need to remember we are Shia Muslims first and citizens of 'x' country second.

That being said, India occupies Kashmir similar to Israel's occupation of Palestinian lands. Pakistan has every right to work towards getting their occupied lands back.

Pakistan does not claim Kashmir for itself.  Their position is to let Kashmiris choose their own fate.  If that happens to be an independent Kashmiri state away from Pakistan then it is fine.  This is their official position, of course they would probably try and influence Kashmir to join up but I doubt it will happen.

Edited by King

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4 hours ago, King said:

Pakistan does not claim Kashmir for itself.  Their position is to let Kashmiris choose their own fate.  If that happens to be an independent Kashmiri state away from Pakistan then it is fine.  This is their official position, of course they would probably try and influence Kashmir to join up but I doubt it will happen.

brother if Pakistan does not claim ..but India claim kashmir is India's integral part ..Thats why IOK Indian occupied kashmir correct ..? pakist does claim kashmir ..but stilll there is POK .Pakistan occupied kashmir ..???..just confused if someone who talk about free kashmir clarify this to me ......

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22 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

The solution seems obvious, to me anyway. Let Kashmir become an independent country. That way, no more conflict and risk of nuclear conflict between India and Pak. 

 

In its entirety. Problem is laypeople on both sides of the argument forget China occupies a significant part too, some of which Pakistan ceded.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSTyYYtzoU8ogIpCoAfBbV

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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54 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

The solution seems obvious, to me anyway. Let Kashmir become an independent country. That way, no more conflict and risk of nuclear conflict between India and Pak. 

 

America may establish military base in “independent” kashmir

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24 minutes ago, Heavenly_Silk said:

Pakistan is releasing detained Indian pilot as a peace gesture. 

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/Pakistan-to-release-Indian-pilot-tomorrow-as-peace-gesture-11650654

I know it is the sensible thing to do but kinda looks weak.

They shoulda waited it out and done an "Iran" on them, like how the hostages were released on the day Reagan was sworn in, thus humiliating the President during the crisis, Carter. 

It is clear Modi is doing the most to stay in power, and this POW being returned under his watch, helps BJP.

I think they shoulda kept him a little longer.

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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53 minutes ago, Heavenly_Silk said:

Pakistan is releasing detained Indian pilot as peace gesture

Someone ask him if he even wants to go back :grin:

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57 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

I know it is the sensible thing to do but kinda looks weak.

They shoulda waited it out and done an "Iran" on them, like how the hostages were released on the day Reagan was sworn in, thus humiliating the President during the crisis, Carter. 

It is clear Modi is doing the most to stay in power, and this POW being returned under his watch, helps BJP.

I think they shoulda kept him a little longer.

I’d rather they just do the sensible thing now before this escalates any further. Also shows that Pak are sincere in wanting to keeping the peace. 

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