What should be done to the ISIS brides Hoda Muthana and Shamima Begum?

[Guest Umm Amira]

Do you think they should be let back in the United States/United Kingdom for the safety of their children? I have compassion for most people but these girls willingly put themselves in a place where there is no value for human life. So why should we value theirs?  

[Sirius_Bright]

I'm not sure why people are sympathizing with her. She is a terrorist and should be treated like one. 

[Guest Umm Amira]

15 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

I'm not sure why people are sympathizing with her. She is a terrorist and should be treated like one. 

I fully agree she shouldnt be let back in. I don’t think people are sympathizing with her though, but sympathizing with her son. 

[Soldiers and Saffron]

She should be sent to the country that missed catching her departure and there she should be put on trial.

Poor Syria who has to deal with all these crazy people sent form all corners of the world.

Why not start investigating how they could get to Syria to begin with and through which country and then hold them responsible?

[forte]

I can see these women pushing hard for the Madonna image with the toddlers and newborns, but these are hard core, globally connected ISIS fanatics who would still be there if they had not been pushed out.  And they have no intention of changing. One was advocating fairly recently over social media very strongly for domestic terrorism in the US by driving cars and trucks into crowds to splatter as much blood as possible, and the other went to rallies by Anjem Choudary with her father from the age of 13.  She said she had a great time in Raqqa living the sweet life and has no regrets, just that she was forced from her home.  Unfortunately, the many many victims just outside her front steps did not share her sunshine and rainbows - and she said she was fine with that.  And to say they are not a friend to Shia is an understatement.  They should stay where they are and have the authorities there deal with them.. that is where they committed these atrocities.  If they go to their home countries for a trial, it would be impossible to address crimes committed in another  and they will be released to the general population.  They would require extensive supervision.  Twenty-four hour supervision would be incredibly expensive (3 teams each day for 8 hour shifts) and would be inadequate.  

[Gaius I. Caesar]

2 hours ago, IbnSina said:

She should be sent to the country that missed catching her departure and there she should be put on trial.

Poor Syria who has to deal with all these crazy people sent form all corners of the world.

Why not start investigating how they could get to Syria to begin with and through which country and then hold them responsible?

Can't Syria just execute them, since the rest of the world doesn't want be responsible and bring them back? (Rhetorical question)

If Syria executes these people, isn't a signal to the world that Syria has regained control and has no qualms about handling these terrorists justly?

[Soldiers and Saffron]

9 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Can't Syria just execute them, since the rest of the world doesn't want be responsible and bring them back? (Rhetorical question)

If Syria executes these people, isn't a signal to the world that Syria has regained control and has no qualms about handling these terrorists justly?

I would personally put them to forced labor. Force them to clean up and rebuild all the places daesh destroyed.

This would go on until all of Syria is clean and rebuilt or until they die from natural causes. Forced labor until the end of their lives, they have to rebuild what they destroyed.

If they refuse forced labor then execution. 

[Klanky]

She was a 15 year old girl, she deserves another chance. It's shameful of the Brits to revoke her citizenship - she's one of their own and she needs help.

[Propaganda_of_the_Deed]

She seemed unrepentent, I remember the first interview, the journalist had to really press her to get her to say sorry when asked if she has anything to say to her family. First thing she said was along the lines that she needs their help in coming back.

Ultimately I think Home Office will lose (I also think Sajid Javid is trying to score points as a potential Tory leader). The most they are hoping to achieve is to make it difficult and buy time, make her work for her right to cone back via appeals, etc. Or in the hope that Holland, where her IS husband is from will take her. Maybe one of these feminist Scandi countries can offer her asylum? Bangladesh rightly does not want to know.

The kid should be taken away from her. Her mind is not all there. She still refers to IS as "dawlah", so the conditioning is strong.

What dawlah? They have like a tiny village left.

[Sirius_Bright]

8 hours ago, Umm Amira said:

I don’t think people are sympathizing with her though, but sympathizing with her son. 

There are people who are sympathizing with her. Search Twitter with #Shamimabegum. 

[notme]

Everyone has to live with the consequences of their actions. Let them stay, or face charges for participation in terrorist conspiracies. 

I feel sorry for their children, same as for all children of terrorists. They're young enough now that the brainwashing could be reversed, but if they stay with their mothers for a few years they are doomed. 

[forte]

5 hours ago, Klanky said:

She was a 15 year old girl, she deserves another chance. It's shameful of the Brits to revoke her citizenship - she's one of their own and she needs help.

She WAS a 15 year old girl - she is now a hardened fanatic, with great connections, who stated she was totally OK with the inhumanities committed by ISIS.  Despite struggling in the last few months and losing her children, and having just given birth in a camp, she still has the cold superior arrogance of those who gave themselves the right to completely destroy the lives, livelihoods and homes of all those who did not share their beliefs.  Think for a moment with what she she agrees.  A lot of this took place in her Raqqa community while she played house and then participated or promoted in these horrors in ways she has no intention of sharing.

I feel sorry for their kids too.  I also feel sorry for the thousands of kids that witnessed horrors many of us cannot even watch on screen from the safety of our Western home, for the little girls who were beaten and repeatedly raped while calling out for their murdered fathers, and of course for the many orphans who managed to find enough food and shelter to survive and whose lives will remain uncertain.  I don't think we should be cherry picking which children deserve help more, based on the acts of their parents.

I did not sense any true remorse from either of them.  They both were pretty clear that they only wanted to come back for what the state could do for them.  There was not one word about what they could do for others. Not one.

When you have people in such a compromised position still bolstered and strengthened by their murderous ideology, how strong do you think they will be once fed, and housed in a secure situation?  They are both a huge threat.  I am not in favour of using innocent lives as a therapy mat to determine if they will  or will not reconnect with what are now, since their "diaspora", global connections.  These people are fanatics.  The ONLY reason they want to return is that they want to be taken care of and will tap any resource to get it.  To willingly put innocent lives in danger to gamble with what these two will do, puts the lives of many at great risk, including children.

Edited February 22, 2019 by forte

[ShiaMan14]

who would have thought that out of all the people in ShiaChat, I would be conflicted over this?

We see teenage girls being duped by online predators all the time. It was similar in this case except the predator got them to go all the way to Syria. They were not forced or coerced into going but at least tricked into going.

People usually feel sorry for girls who run away from home to meet someone they met online if it turns out to be a predator so why not apply the same principles here?

These are not the first impressionable teenage girls who made a grave mistake.

[notme]

3 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

We see teenage girls being duped by online predators all the time. It was similar in this case except the predator got them to go all the way to Syria. They were not forced or coerced into going but at least tricked into going.

But usually when teenage girls are tricked into meeting an online predator, the girl is the only one harmed. In this case these women were participants in conspiracies to commit violent crimes against innocent people. Would you feel differently if they were teenage boys/young men? 

[ShiaMan14]

17 minutes ago, notme said:

But usually when teenage girls are tricked into meeting an online predator, the girl is the only one harmed. In this case these women were participants in conspiracies to commit violent crimes against innocent people. Would you feel differently if they were teenage boys/young men? 

I am definitely being softer on them because they were girls at that time but I would probably say the same about a 15-yr old boy. 

I think instead of saying "just execute them", there should be trial to understand what drove them to their actions and them prosecute them accordingly. And if it found that they actively participated in killing people, then a death sentence would be applicable too.

I am against the "just kill them" attitude.

[notme]

11 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

 

I think instead of saying "just execute them", there should be trial to understand what drove them to their actions and them prosecute them accordingly. And if it found that they actively participated in killing people, then a death sentence would be applicable too.

I am against the "just kill them" attitude.

I can't disagree with this. In my opinion, they should be offered the option of staying where they are, or facing trial for criminal conspiracy. A person does not need to have blood on their hands to be guilty of conspiring to commit murder or other crimes. I didn't ever say these women should be executed without a trial. You can't solve a crime problem with more crime. 

[Akbar673]

On 2/21/2019 at 6:55 PM, Umm Amira said:

Do you think they should be let back in the United States/United Kingdom for the safety of their children? I have compassion for most people but these girls willingly put themselves in a place where there is no value for human life. So why should we value theirs?  

Neither should be allowed back. They had their choices, now comes the part where the consequences of their chosen actions are determined.

They willingly left to join ISIS. They can rot in Syria for the rest of their lives.

However, an important point to be considered is that they both have years of valid intel in their heads. Even if they weren’t privy to important logistical or strategic info they still have years of time spent in the camps that can still be used. That’s the only value they bring to the table.

[Ashvazdanghe]

http://en.abna24.com/news//us-woman-blocked-from-returning-home-over-isis-links_930052.html

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 2/22/2019 at 8:01 AM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Can't Syria just execute them, since the rest of the world doesn't want be responsible and bring them back? (Rhetorical question)

If Syria executes these people, isn't a signal to the world that Syria has regained control and has no qualms about handling these terrorists justly?

Salam if Syria execute one of these women whole world will turns against it by using excuse of human right violation that still Syria must proves that didn't use chemical weapons in war with ISIS ,at first these women must fix their error in Syria & Iraq then face a fair court 

ISIS: Widows of Terrorism

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

Salam 

Shamima Begum: Dutch husband wants to take teenager to Netherlands
Detained Isis fighter Yago Riedijk says it was her ‘own choice’ to marry him aged 15

The Dutch husband of Shamima Begum, the teenager who fled the United Kingdom to join Isis, has said he wants to return to the Netherlands with his wife and newborn son.

Speaking to the BBC, Yago Riedijk, 27, said he rejected Islamic State, who reportedly tortured him on suspicion of being a Dutch spy.

He admitted to fighting for Isis and may face a six-year jail sentence if he returns to the Netherlands.

Riedijk is being held in a Kurdish-run detention center in northern Syria. Begum and Riedijk are said to have fled Baghuz, Isis’s last foothold in eastern Syria as it lost territory in recent months.

https://www.theguardian.com/United Kingdom-news/2019/mar/03/shamima-begum-dutch-husband-wants-to-take-teenager-to-netherlands

[Mohammadi_follower]

For these persons it is simple : death penalty. While for there children they must be place in special environnement where they could be desindoctrinated.

[Panzerwaffe]

Children should be brought up as Shias Christian's

Ultimate revenge on ISIS 

Kill these women they are terrorists 

[power]

She has not shown any remorse, therefore the child should be taken into custody, and the mother imprisoned,

[Akbar673]

Its really the sitation regarding their children that has me in a quandry. They are innocent of any crimes their parents committed and as such need to be a primary concern when judging their Mothers.

If the Mothers are found guilty enough of warranting the death penalty, then great care must be taken for whom the children end up with. I'm not talking about a random orphanage. Those children should be made to be examples of how the children of a villain can be raised to be the most pious and loving Muslims.

I hope those children are raised the way Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr was raised. An example of how a person regardless of their parentage can become a pious and honorable example for others to follow.

[Qa'im]

Revoking citizenship may be a dangerous precedent. But these are no doubt terrorists, responsible mainly for the deaths of Muslims - classic mufsideena fil ard - they’re lucky to live anywhere, let alone in the West.

[Don'tMakeAس]

I know less about these cases in particular than the ones we've had in Canada, so feel to take my words with a grain of salt. But the image of bloodthirsty, psychopathic terrorists reared by ISIS trying to return to the civilised West to further torment its citizens is—by and large—a manufactured one. These two women aside, in the majority of cases the 'terrorists' are themselves victims of terrorist groups, whether through actual physical or emotional abuse that caused them to flee Syria or through their indoctrination at the hands of a media-savvy, globally visible organisation. Most of the times it's the former, and the 'terrorists' have no wish to be associated with the ideologies ISIS promoted any longer.

These facts aside, the more important consideration in this matter is not the crimes these handful of individuals may or may not have committed, but rather the narrative that instrumentalizes this issue. The larger paradigm that is being constructed is that of the Islamic World as the illiberal other to which the violence of the liberal West is justified. It's through this logic that mass murderers of the Muslim variety can have their citizenship stripped from them so that they can rot in some Muslim country, where their illiberalism will the norm, anyway. If some other, more conventionally Western, individual engages in mass murder, there is no need for a reactionary backlash when they're given due process and a fair trail.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Don'tMakeA١٠١س

[Zulfiqar1472]

On 3/5/2019 at 7:35 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam 

Shamima Begum: Dutch husband wants to take teenager to Netherlands
Detained Isis fighter Yago Riedijk says it was her ‘own choice’ to marry him aged 15

The Dutch husband of Shamima Begum, the teenager who fled the United Kingdom to join Isis, has said he wants to return to the Netherlands with his wife and newborn son.

Speaking to the BBC, Yago Riedijk, 27, said he rejected Islamic State, who reportedly tortured him on suspicion of being a Dutch spy.

He admitted to fighting for Isis and may face a six-year jail sentence if he returns to the Netherlands.

Riedijk is being held in a Kurdish-run detention center in northern Syria. Begum and Riedijk are said to have fled Baghuz, Isis’s last foothold in eastern Syria as it lost territory in recent months.

https://www.theguardian.com/United Kingdom-news/2019/mar/03/shamima-begum-dutch-husband-wants-to-take-teenager-to-netherlands

As they have must have done crimes of extreme nature on foreign land; they can be put behind bars under terrorism act

Edited March 6, 2019 by Zulfiqar1472

[Propaganda_of_the_Deed]

Her 3rd baby died

https://www.theguardian.com/United Kingdom-news/2019/mar/09/sajid-javid-denounced-shamima-begums-baby-dies-Syria

[Abu Nur]

1 hour ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Her 3rd baby died

https://www.theguardian.com/United Kingdom-news/2019/mar/09/sajid-javid-denounced-shamima-begums-baby-dies-Syria

It should not change her situation to not allow to come back. Or let her be free if they allow her to come back. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Abu Nur

[Abu Hadi]

I think she should only be allowed back if she publicly renounces her allegiance to Da'ish and exposes any information she may have about them publically. If she does that, then she should be allowed back and given her full rights of citizenship in the United Kingdom.  Doing this will help those in the future who may be misguided by such terrorist groups. 

[Abu Hadi]

I also wanted to add that if they committed crimes (like murder, theft, etc) in the process of them being involved with Da'esh, then they should be prosecuted and these should be dealt with as a criminal case, outside of the fact of their allegiance to Dai'sh and travel to the theater of battle. But most likely these crimes took place outside of the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom legal system. So then they could be extradited to the country where the crimes occurred and be prosecuted there. If they are found guilty, then they would have to endure the punishment according to the laws of that country. If they are found innocent, or after serving their jail sentence, then they should be returned to the United Kingdom after fulfilling the condition I said in my first post. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

Orphans of ISIS:A grandmother’s journey to rescue her grand children from Syria| four corners

ISIS bride , Aussie baby :Part one - should we let them call Australia home ? |60 minutes Australia 

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by Ashvazdanghe

[Propaganda_of_the_Deed]

Wonder what happened to OP she randomly left after joining not too long ago. 

[Bakir]

I see lots of posts in ShiaChat trying to justify in the weirdest "logical" ways possible death penalty for apostates or homosexuals, and people question what to do with terrorists?

[Faruk]

ISIS was invented by imperialist/zionist powers to topple the Assad-administration.

Now they failed they take distance from them while Assad gave them amnesty.

We should take the example from Assad.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Faruk