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What should be done to the ISIS brides Hoda Muthana and Shamima Begum?

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Guest Umm Amira

Do you think they should be let back in the United States/United Kingdom for the safety of their children? I have compassion for most people but these girls willingly put themselves in a place where there is no value for human life. So why should we value theirs?  

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Guest Umm Amira
15 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

I'm not sure why people are sympathizing with her. She is a terrorist and should be treated like one. 

I fully agree she shouldnt be let back in. I don’t think people are sympathizing with her though, but sympathizing with her son. 

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She should be sent to the country that missed catching her departure and there she should be put on trial.

Poor Syria who has to deal with all these crazy people sent form all corners of the world.

Why not start investigating how they could get to Syria to begin with and through which country and then hold them responsible?

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I can see these women pushing hard for the Madonna image with the toddlers and newborns, but these are hard core, globally connected ISIS fanatics who would still be there if they had not been pushed out.  And they have no intention of changing. One was advocating fairly recently over social media very strongly for domestic terrorism in the US by driving cars and trucks into crowds to splatter as much blood as possible, and the other went to rallies by Anjem Choudary with her father from the age of 13.  She said she had a great time in Raqqa living the sweet life and has no regrets, just that she was forced from her home.  Unfortunately, the many many victims just outside her front steps did not share her sunshine and rainbows - and she said she was fine with that.  And to say they are not a friend to Shia is an understatement.  They should stay where they are and have the authorities there deal with them.. that is where they committed these atrocities.  If they go to their home countries for a trial, it would be impossible to address crimes committed in another  and they will be released to the general population.  They would require extensive supervision.  Twenty-four hour supervision would be incredibly expensive (3 teams each day for 8 hour shifts) and would be inadequate.  

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2 hours ago, IbnSina said:

She should be sent to the country that missed catching her departure and there she should be put on trial.

Poor Syria who has to deal with all these crazy people sent form all corners of the world.

Why not start investigating how they could get to Syria to begin with and through which country and then hold them responsible?

Can't Syria just execute them, since the rest of the world doesn't want be responsible and bring them back? (Rhetorical question)

If Syria executes these people, isn't a signal to the world that Syria has regained control and has no qualms about handling these terrorists justly?

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9 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Can't Syria just execute them, since the rest of the world doesn't want be responsible and bring them back? (Rhetorical question)

If Syria executes these people, isn't a signal to the world that Syria has regained control and has no qualms about handling these terrorists justly?

I would personally put them to forced labor. Force them to clean up and rebuild all the places daesh destroyed.

This would go on until all of Syria is clean and rebuilt or until they die from natural causes. Forced labor until the end of their lives, they have to rebuild what they destroyed.

If they refuse forced labor then execution. 

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She seemed unrepentent, I remember the first interview, the journalist had to really press her to get her to say sorry when asked if she has anything to say to her family. First thing she said was along the lines that she needs their help in coming back.

Ultimately I think Home Office will lose (I also think Sajid Javid is trying to score points as a potential Tory leader). The most they are hoping to achieve is to make it difficult and buy time, make her work for her right to cone back via appeals, etc. Or in the hope that Holland, where her IS husband is from will take her. Maybe one of these feminist Scandi countries can offer her asylum? Bangladesh rightly does not want to know.

The kid should be taken away from her. Her mind is not all there. She still refers to IS as "dawlah", so the conditioning is strong.

What dawlah? They have like a tiny village left.

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Everyone has to live with the consequences of their actions. Let them stay, or face charges for participation in terrorist conspiracies. 

I feel sorry for their children, same as for all children of terrorists. They're young enough now that the brainwashing could be reversed, but if they stay with their mothers for a few years they are doomed. 

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5 hours ago, Klanky said:

She was a 15 year old girl, she deserves another chance. It's shameful of the Brits to revoke her citizenship - she's one of their own and she needs help.

She WAS a 15 year old girl - she is now a hardened fanatic, with great connections, who stated she was totally OK with the inhumanities committed by ISIS.  Despite struggling in the last few months and losing her children, and having just given birth in a camp, she still has the cold superior arrogance of those who gave themselves the right to completely destroy the lives, livelihoods and homes of all those who did not share their beliefs.  Think for a moment with what she she agrees.  A lot of this took place in her Raqqa community while she played house and then participated or promoted in these horrors in ways she has no intention of sharing.

I feel sorry for their kids too.  I also feel sorry for the thousands of kids that witnessed horrors many of us cannot even watch on screen from the safety of our Western home, for the little girls who were beaten and repeatedly raped while calling out for their murdered fathers, and of course for the many orphans who managed to find enough food and shelter to survive and whose lives will remain uncertain.  I don't think we should be cherry picking which children deserve help more, based on the acts of their parents.

I did not sense any true remorse from either of them.  They both were pretty clear that they only wanted to come back for what the state could do for them.  There was not one word about what they could do for others. Not one.

When you have people in such a compromised position still bolstered and strengthened by their murderous ideology, how strong do you think they will be once fed, and housed in a secure situation?  They are both a huge threat.  I am not in favour of using innocent lives as a therapy mat to determine if they will  or will not reconnect with what are now, since their "diaspora", global connections.  These people are fanatics.  The ONLY reason they want to return is that they want to be taken care of and will tap any resource to get it.  To willingly put innocent lives in danger to gamble with what these two will do, puts the lives of many at great risk, including children.

Edited by forte

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who would have thought that out of all the people in ShiaChat, I would be conflicted over this? :)

We see teenage girls being duped by online predators all the time. It was similar in this case except the predator got them to go all the way to Syria. They were not forced or coerced into going but at least tricked into going.

People usually feel sorry for girls who run away from home to meet someone they met online if it turns out to be a predator so why not apply the same principles here?

These are not the first impressionable teenage girls who made a grave mistake.

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3 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

We see teenage girls being duped by online predators all the time. It was similar in this case except the predator got them to go all the way to Syria. They were not forced or coerced into going but at least tricked into going.

But usually when teenage girls are tricked into meeting an online predator, the girl is the only one harmed. In this case these women were participants in conspiracies to commit violent crimes against innocent people. Would you feel differently if they were teenage boys/young men? 

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17 minutes ago, notme said:

But usually when teenage girls are tricked into meeting an online predator, the girl is the only one harmed. In this case these women were participants in conspiracies to commit violent crimes against innocent people. Would you feel differently if they were teenage boys/young men? 

I am definitely being softer on them because they were girls at that time but I would probably say the same about a 15-yr old boy. 

I think instead of saying "just execute them", there should be trial to understand what drove them to their actions and them prosecute them accordingly. And if it found that they actively participated in killing people, then a death sentence would be applicable too.

I am against the "just kill them" attitude.

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11 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

 

I think instead of saying "just execute them", there should be trial to understand what drove them to their actions and them prosecute them accordingly. And if it found that they actively participated in killing people, then a death sentence would be applicable too.

I am against the "just kill them" attitude.

I can't disagree with this. In my opinion, they should be offered the option of staying where they are, or facing trial for criminal conspiracy. A person does not need to have blood on their hands to be guilty of conspiring to commit murder or other crimes. I didn't ever say these women should be executed without a trial. You can't solve a crime problem with more crime. 

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On 2/21/2019 at 6:55 PM, Umm Amira said:

Do you think they should be let back in the United States/United Kingdom for the safety of their children? I have compassion for most people but these girls willingly put themselves in a place where there is no value for human life. So why should we value theirs?  

Neither should be allowed back. They had their choices, now comes the part where the consequences of their chosen actions are determined.

They willingly left to join ISIS. They can rot in Syria for the rest of their lives.

However, an important point to be considered is that they both have years of valid intel in their heads. Even if they weren’t privy to important logistical or strategic info they still have years of time spent in the camps that can still be used. That’s the only value they bring to the table.

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On 2/22/2019 at 8:01 AM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Can't Syria just execute them, since the rest of the world doesn't want be responsible and bring them back? (Rhetorical question)

If Syria executes these people, isn't a signal to the world that Syria has regained control and has no qualms about handling these terrorists justly?

Salam if Syria execute one of these women whole world will turns against it by using excuse of human right violation that still Syria must proves that didn't use chemical weapons in war with ISIS ,at first these women must fix their error in Syria & Iraq then face a fair court 

ISIS: Widows of Terrorism

 

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Salam 

Shamima Begum: Dutch husband wants to take teenager to Netherlands
Detained Isis fighter Yago Riedijk says it was her ‘own choice’ to marry him aged 15

The Dutch husband of Shamima Begum, the teenager who fled the United Kingdom to join Isis, has said he wants to return to the Netherlands with his wife and newborn son.

Speaking to the BBC, Yago Riedijk, 27, said he rejected Islamic State, who reportedly tortured him on suspicion of being a Dutch spy.

He admitted to fighting for Isis and may face a six-year jail sentence if he returns to the Netherlands.

Riedijk is being held in a Kurdish-run detention center in northern Syria. Begum and Riedijk are said to have fled Baghuz, Isis’s last foothold in eastern Syria as it lost territory in recent months.

https://www.theguardian.com/United Kingdom-news/2019/mar/03/shamima-begum-dutch-husband-wants-to-take-teenager-to-netherlands

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