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Hadi5

What is Shia view on Rumi.

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32 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Not mutually exclusive. Sufi orders exist amongst both Shias and Sunnis.

I wouldn't go as far as to say they disagree on "many" things, in a lot of ways they are quite aligned. Especially in holding Imam Ali as in high esteem and focussing on the inward/spirituality.

The sofi and Irfan are different names one thing .So I don't think that there's anything significant to disagree with Rumi(sofi).

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Allama Iqbal and Rumi were great poets and philosophers, they both had immense veneration for Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) which is why they are liked amongst the Shias. However they were both either Sufis or Sunni.

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5 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Rumi was a man with mixed beliefs. He has praised Imam Ali (عليه السلام) as well as enemies of Ali. You cannot have two swords in one sheath. 

Unfortunate that how people see it, not what he really writes.

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3 hours ago, Hadi5 said:

Some Shias disagree.But others highly praise Rumi.

Salam,

Spirituality / mystic and philosophy are part of Islamic knowledge. 

Just as humans have different languages to communicate and to express their views,  Rumi has his own ways to express his love toward Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  

When a person expresses his love to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), we are with him.  When he expresses his love to Prophet and Ahlul Bayt, we are with him.

If he expresses his love to those who are not aligned with Ahlul Bayt, we will screen his expression...it is pure love or taqqiya.  If it is taqqiya, then it is different story. 

When a Shia discusses with a Sunni, the Shia will quote hadiths from Sunni sources to make his point clear, even though the hadith was transmitted through Abu Huraira.  But, in reality a Shia will not put his trust on Abu Huraira.  This is taqiyya.  What it important is the message, not who transmitted it.  And to allow a smooth discussion and to prove point.

Whether Rumi was using taqqiya because of his situation, then it is upto to the readers to investigate.

Many Sufis, love Ali and love Abu Bakr too.  If he truly love both Ali and Abu Bakr with full sincerity, and not taqqiya, then that love has gone wrong. But, if he live among Sunnis and he wants to be accepted by them, so that he gets the chance to tell Sunnis about how great Ali is... then it is different story.  Because a Sunni will not tolerate if a Sufi / Shia telling them that Ali is much much greater than Abu Bakr.

Edited by layman

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2 hours ago, layman said:

Salam,

Spirituality / mystic and philosophy are part of Islamic knowledge. 

Just as humans have different languages to communicate and to express their views,  Rumi has his own ways to express his love toward Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  

When a person expresses his love to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), we are with him.  When he expresses his love to Prophet and Ahlul Bayt, we are with him.

If he expresses his love to those who are not aligned with Ahlul Bayt, we will screen his expression...it is pure love or taqqiya.  If it is taqqiya, then it is different story. 

When a Shia discusses with a Sunni, the Shia will quote hadiths from Sunni sources to make his point clear, even though the hadith was transmitted through Abu Huraira.  But, in reality a Shia will not put his trust on Abu Huraira.  This is taqiyya.  What it important is the message, not who transmitted it.  And to allow a smooth discussion and to prove point.

Whether Rumi was using taqqiya because of his situation, then it is upto to the readers to investigate.

Many Sufis, love Ali and love Abu Bakr too.  If he truly love both Ali and Abu Bakr with full sincerity, and not taqqiya, then that love has gone wrong. But, if he live among Sunnis and he wants to be accepted by them, so that he gets the chance to tell Sunnis about how great Ali is... then it is different story.  Because a Sunni will not tolerate if a Sufi / Shia telling them that Ali is much much greater than Abu Bakr.

16

 

Firstly, if one studies his poetry Rumi would say that most Shias and Sunnis are stuck in useless theological quibbling, judgments, and arguments (that they have lost sight of what is important) They talk about love for Ali or love for Abu Bakr, but it is just on the lips.  

By the way....why would someone who does Taqiyya express so beautifully, a love that doesn't exist?  Wouldn't the wisest thing be to not say anything and remain silent?

All exemplary people like Ibn Arabi and Rumi were doing taqiyya....  

No, they were not.  They were full blown Sunnis, they prayed like Sunnis, they taught Sunni fiqh, and they did everything Sunnis do! and on top  and on top of all that they were one of the greatest Arifs that have walked on this Earth.  They are so great that any Shia scholar worth his or her salt would be acquainted with their teachings if not at the very least appreciate their legacy.   

So there are THREE possibilities.

Either Shiaism is invalid,

Both Shias and Sunnis are somehow both valid (two similar paths that lead to an identical peak)

OR

Those great people were doing Taqiyya and Sunniism is invalid!

This last one is, to me, a bit insulting to them.  And the first one is clearly wrong since there are Shia urafa (like Mulla Sadra, and Afdal al-Din Kashani)... but then again may these Shia urafa were doing taqiyya and were really Sunnis. (sarcasm)

 

 

Edited by eThErEaL

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I have no issues with those who pray like Sunnis, follow and teach like Sunni fiqh..  as long they do not insult Ahlul Bayt.

For us, the greatest Ariffs are Ahlul Bayt, not Rumi or others.

Brother eThErEaL,

Do you love both Ali and Abu Bakr?  If yes, here where we depart spiritually.  We embark on different ship to the destiny.

 

Edited by layman

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11 minutes ago, layman said:

I have no issues with those who pray like Sunnis, follow and teach like Sunni fiqh..  as long they do not insult Ahlul Bayt.

For us, the greatest Ariffs are Ahlul Bayt, not Rumi or others.Brother eThErEaL,

1

And for me, the Prophet (S) and his Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) and the Ambiya (عليه السلام) are beyond the title of "Arif".  So when I say the greatest of arifs that walked this Earth I don't mean to put them and Rumi or Ibn Arabi on the same pedestal.

Quote

If yes, here where we depart spiritually.  We embark on different ship to the destiny.

And what does "departing spiritually" entail?  What could one possibly mean by this?

Quote

Do you love both Ali and Abu Bakr? 

If God loves everything that exists how can I not love Abu Bakr?  

 

Edited by eThErEaL

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7 hours ago, layman said:

Salam,

Spirituality / mystic and philosophy are part of Islamic knowledge. 

Just as humans have different languages to communicate and to express their views,  Rumi has his own ways to express his love toward Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  

When a person expresses his love to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), we are with him.  When he expresses his love to Prophet and Ahlul Bayt, we are with him.

If he expresses his love to those who are not aligned with Ahlul Bayt, we will screen his expression...it is pure love or taqqiya.  If it is taqqiya, then it is different story. 

When a Shia discusses with a Sunni, the Shia will quote hadiths from Sunni sources to make his point clear, even though the hadith was transmitted through Abu Huraira.  But, in reality a Shia will not put his trust on Abu Huraira.  This is taqiyya.  What it important is the message, not who transmitted it.  And to allow a smooth discussion and to prove point.

Whether Rumi was using taqqiya because of his situation, then it is upto to the readers to investigate.

Many Sufis, love Ali and love Abu Bakr too.  If he truly love both Ali and Abu Bakr with full sincerity, and not taqqiya, then that love has gone wrong. But, if he live among Sunnis and he wants to be accepted by them, so that he gets the chance to tell Sunnis about how great Ali is... then it is different story.  Because a Sunni will not tolerate if a Sufi / Shia telling them that Ali is much much greater than Abu Bakr.

Brother when it comes to spirituality it has nothing to do with Shia or Sunni etc label.And it is what spirituality is.

Spirituality is function heart that is loving Allah to an extreme level  .We all (Sunni and Shia) claim to love Allah.But I know we lie.And Allah knows who is real lover. So now if a sunny really loves Allah( more than what ever else exists ) then what ever Shia call him hardly matrers.So when a Shia really loves Allah'(more than everything that exist) then it hardly matter's what common Sunni call him.

And Rumi is real lover of Allah'.So it hardly matter's what some Shia call him.

@eThErEaL

So rumi will be loved by all those who love Allah.

Yes Rumi was beliver of willayah of Imam Ali.

Loving Abu Bakar or not loving has nothing to do with spirituality.

Yes baseless having grudge against anyone is against anyone is against spirituality.

 

Edited by Hadi5

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5 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

And for me, the Prophet (S) and his Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) and the Ambiya (عليه السلام) are beyond the title of "Arif".  So when I say the greatest of arifs that walked this Earth I don't mean to put them and Rumi or Ibn Arabi on the same pedestal.

And what does "departing spiritually" entail?  What could one possibly mean by this?

If God loves everything that exists how can I not love Abu Bakr?  

 

We depart on the spiritual vehicles to reach Him (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

Hold on Qur'an and Ahlul Bayt.  This is ship that I need to embark is capable to sail through rough seas.  From syariah, aqlaq...other knowledge and spiritual... this ship has solutions.    

Love of Ali is a sign of faith, hate of Ali is sign of hypocrisy.  If Abu Bakr followed Ahlul Bayt, then he was in the ship.  But he has a different ship.

When you said Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) loves everything that exist how come I not love Abu Bakr?  Let change Abu Bakr to Yazid or Saddam Hussain.  Will the same statement apply?

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2 hours ago, Hadi5 said:

Brother when it comes to spirituality it has nothing to do with Shia or Sunni etc label.And it is what spirituality is.

Spirituality is function heart that is loving Allah to an extreme level  .We all (Sunni and Shia) claim to love Allah.But I know we lie.And Allah knows who is real lover. So now if a sunny really loves Allah( more than what ever else exists ) then what ever Shia call him hardly matrers.So when a Shia really loves Allah'(more than everything that exist) then it hardly matter's what common Sunni call him.

And Rumi is real lover of Allah'.So it hardly matter's what some Shia call him.

 

 

When comes to loving Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), we are all together.

When comes to loving the Prophet (عليه السلام), we are all together.

When comes to loving Ahlul Bayt, some are not with us.

We are one NAFS..nafs wahidah.  It should not break up from top to bottom, from Names of Allah to Muhammad and to Ali...that spirituality.

Khawarij are also extreme lover of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), history recorded and their forehead has thick scar due prostration to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  But fought against Ali (عليه السلام). The NAFS broken in term of unity.

Edited by layman

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10 hours ago, layman said:

Salam,

Spirituality / mystic and philosophy are part of Islamic knowledge. 

Just as humans have different languages to communicate and to express their views,  Rumi has his own ways to express his love toward Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  

When a person expresses his love to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), we are with him.  When he expresses his love to Prophet and Ahlul Bayt, we are with him.

If he expresses his love to those who are not aligned with Ahlul Bayt, we will screen his expression...it is pure love or taqqiya.  If it is taqqiya, then it is different story. 

When a Shia discusses with a Sunni, the Shia will quote hadiths from Sunni sources to make his point clear, even though the hadith was transmitted through Abu Huraira.  But, in reality a Shia will not put his trust on Abu Huraira.  This is taqiyya.  What it important is the message, not who transmitted it.  And to allow a smooth discussion and to prove point.

Whether Rumi was using taqqiya because of his situation, then it is upto to the readers to investigate.

Many Sufis, love Ali and love Abu Bakr too.  If he truly love both Ali and Abu Bakr with full sincerity, and not taqqiya, then that love has gone wrong. But, if he live among Sunnis and he wants to be accepted by them, so that he gets the chance to tell Sunnis about how great Ali is... then it is different story.  Because a Sunni will not tolerate if a Sufi / Shia telling them that Ali is much much greater than Abu Bakr.

I agree, it’s certainly possible for him to be doing the latter half of what you’re saying

despite his sensibility in poetry(so I’m told), he was a just a guy like you and me

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