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In the Name of God بسم الله

Tawheed in action .

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Hadi5

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24 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

All attributes that humans have where from he got

Your Tawheed is off limit. 

You don't understand the difference between what is Rabb  (Lord) and what is Abd (slave).  These two exist.  You are saying Abd does not exist...only Rabb

When the human made zina...why attribute it to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)?

You don't understand why Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) create Souls and He wants the souls to return to Him (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

You don't understand the difference between Creator vs Created human being.  Why Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) created human being in the first place.  To serve or worship Him (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  If everything is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)...why worship is needed.

You don't understand the  verse 2:156

Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un (Arabic: إِنَّا لِلّهِ وَإِنَّـا إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعُونَ‎)

AND you are answering questions...just statement and assumptions.

This type of sufism is off limits.

Edited by layman
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6 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

Whose action is zina? 

All the creatures of God are but a single existentiating Act of God, this act is the saying of God’s “Be” and it is.  This has nothing to do with God’s legislative command (al-amr at-tashri’I).  

Seen from the existentiating command every single thing that exists (even if it is a disobeying person or a a disobedience) is in fact ontologically good.  Something can be morally reprehensible, ugly and bad while being ontologically good.

the categories of bad and good at the level of morality and shariah are but an aspect of the human condition or situation (which is relative or conditioned existence).  But from an ontological point of view, there is nothing but the lack of conditioning, the lack of relativity (this lack of relative good and relative evil) is pure goodness and pure peace (we call it pure because it has no real opposite).  It is neither good nor bad, even to describe it as “purely good” is a limitation and a fallacy.  

 

 

 

 

Edited by eThErEaL
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1 hour ago, eThErEaL said:

All the creatures of God are but a single existentiating Act of God, this act is the saying of God’s “Be” and it is.  This has nothing to do with God’s legislative command (al-amr at-tashri’I).  

Seen from the existentiating command every single thing that exists (even if it is a disobeying person or a a disobedience) is in fact ontologically good.  Something can be morally reprehensible, ugly and bad while being ontologically good.

the categories of bad and good at the level of morality and shariah are but an aspect of the human condition or situation (which is relative or conditioned existence).  But from an ontological point of view, there is nothing but the lack of conditioning, the lack of relativity (this lack of relative good and relative evil) is pure goodness and pure peace (we call it pure because it has no real opposite).  It is neither good nor bad, even to describe it as “purely good” is a limitation and a fallacy.  

 

 

 

 

Too high level to understand.

If Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) created a knife to cut and when the knife is used it will cut.  The very purpose of a knife is to cut. Infact, the knife that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) created can be said pure good.  Everything Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) created is for good purposes.

When the knife is given to humans to use in this world, then the hand that use the knife must be responsible for what purpose it will be used.  To cut vegetables then it is ok.  To cut throat of a mukmin ( by ISIS), then it is not okay (even though we all know that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) gives the ability of a knife to cut). 

Sexual drive in human is created by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for survival of human species.  To use it for raping a girl, that was not the intended use of sexual drive.

Don't associate negative attributes to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the Most Intelligent, stupidity doesn't exist in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  Stupidity cannot be attributed to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), even though humans are acting stupid.  

Edited by layman
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4 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

All the creatures of God are but a single existentiating Act of God, this act is the saying of God’s “Be” and it is.  This has nothing to do with God’s legislative command (al-amr at-tashri’I).  

 Seen from the existentiating command every single thing that exists (even if it is a disobeying person or a a disobedience) is in fact ontologically good.  Something can be morally reprehensible, ugly and bad while being ontologically good.

the categories of bad and good at the level of morality and shariah are but an aspect of the human condition or situation (which is relative or conditioned existence).  But from an ontological point of view, there is nothing but the lack of conditioning, the lack of relativity (this lack of relative good and relative evil) is pure goodness and pure peace (we call it pure because it has no real opposite).  It is neither good nor bad, even to describe it as “purely good” is a limitation and a fallacy.  

  

 

 

 

So there is a legislative command that have category of good and evil (this is the state where we can be injustice to ourselves because of sinning and disobeying Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). It is sin because the action will veil ourselves between God and make us to not be thankful to Him or remember Him thus we will follow our own desires) and in ontologically everything is Good, because whatever manifest and is defined it is because of God's "Be" and it can only be good?

Edited by Abu Nur
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10 hours ago, Hadi5 said:

That is the right question.

Probably action means means physical actions.

Selecting the inappropriate objective is not action rather forgetting Allah over lower desire.

Then who committed the act? Was it the disobeyer or was it Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)?

you can't pick and choose 

you're asking questions to which you have no answers and in effect are causing your own time to be wasted and adding to your own confusion

 

 

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8 hours ago, layman said:

You statement contradicts the Qur'an that says in 2:156

Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un

(Arabic: إِنَّا لِلّهِ وَإِنَّـا إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعُونَ‎)

If everything is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), why we need to return to Him ?

The return to Him (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), according to your statement is not needed because everything is already Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and humans are not entity by it own.

 

As salaamun aleikum,

Something  I read recently proposed that the returning that we  do is by our choice/will in the sense that we can  either choose to live a life of complete disregard and non- recognition of our reality, which would be that we are seperate,  and are our "own selves",  and Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is oitside us somewhere in some fashion, therefore persisting in the false idea of duality (technically shirk) or, instead, choose to recognize and return to our TRUE reality, which is that we are nothing BUT Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), which is nothing more than different combinations of Allahs (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Names which make up each of our unique, personal constitutions.. 

Each of us is different in the sense that we are like the channels on an equalizer. Some people are more treble, less midrange, tiny bit of bass, or any other type of combination of these, but of course, the Names of Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) are much more than just 3 channels,lol. Anyhow, we each have our own unique Names constitution. Our job is to infuse ourselves with and manifest as many of His names in the best ways possible while we are here.

Anyhow, by recognizing our true reality, we are returning to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

This is something I read lately, and am still pondering and looking into this perspective. Im not claimimg to be correct, just providing another view. 

I know there are many other angles that I could be presented with showing this may not be correct, such as "how can all actions be returned to Allah if this is the case", so I don’t profess to "know" anything, really. Im just here to learn and investigate.

W/s

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Can someone please fill this in for me?

I can see because Allah is All-Seeing!

I can hear because Allah is All-Hearing!

I can touch because Allah is _________.

I can smell because Allah is _________.

I can taste because Allah is _________.

 

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34 minutes ago, Shia farm girl said:

As salaamun aleikum,

Our job is to infuse ourselves with and manifest as many of His names in the best ways possible while we are here.

W/s

Salam, we should melt our souls with HIS Names, until His Names control the Souls...

يَا أَيَّتُهَا النَّفْسُ الْمُطْمَئِنَّةُ ارْجِعِي إِلَى رَبِّكِ رَاضِيَةً مَرْضِيَّةً

 To the righteous it will be said “oh reassured soul, return to your Lord well pleased, and pleasing to Him”

[89:27-28]

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5 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

Something can be morally reprehensible, ugly and bad while being ontologically good.

Yes, it can.

But why we feel the need to view the matter of human actions ontologically? I mean when God is not owning our actions why & how can anyone say or justify an immoral act as an act of God?

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1 hour ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Can someone please fill this in for me?

I can see because Allah is All-Seeing!

I can hear because Allah is All-Hearing!

I can touch because Allah is _________.

I can smell because Allah is _________.

I can taste because Allah is _________.

 

What ever you touch see or taste or hear is all Allahs.

Edited by Hadi5
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1 hour ago, Ralvi said:

Then who committed the act? Was it the disobeyer or was it Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)?

you can't pick and choose 

you're asking questions to which you have no answers and in effect are causing your own time to be wasted and adding to your own confusion

 

 

I presented my understanding of Tawheed in action.If you deny or have some better understanding you can come forward..I agree that this is complex subject and it is not necessary what I have understood is correct.

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@Ralvi @ShiaMan14.

All Movements are the Names of Allah

The praise you make of Allah is His name. When you go to the mosque after washing your feet, you go with the name of Allah. You cannot part with the name of Allah because you yourselves are His name. The beat of pulse, the throbbing of heart and the blowing of wind are all names of Allah. 

Imam Khomine.

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:bismillah:

Surah Ar-Room, Verse 44:

مَن كَفَرَ فَعَلَيْهِ كُفْرُهُ وَمَنْ عَمِلَ صَالِحًا فَلِأَنفُسِهِمْ يَمْهَدُونَ

Whoever disbelieves, he shall be responsible for his disbelief, and whoever does good, they prepare (good) for their own souls, (English - Shakir)

Surah Hud, Verse 121:

وَقُل لِّلَّذِينَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ اعْمَلُوا عَلَىٰ مَكَانَتِكُمْ إِنَّا عَامِلُونَ

And say to those who do not believe: Act according to your state; surely we too are acting. (English - Shakir) 

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1 hour ago, Hadi5 said:

According Imam Khomine ra worship other' than Allah doesn't note exist.Who so ever you worship is Allahs worship.

Use your sense here

if someone else is praying and worshipping and praising a ‘deity’ other than Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), and actively and purposely doing, that is NOT worship of Allah

its like comparing the lovers of The Prophet (SAAWS)

to haters of the Prophet(SAAWS)

they are incomparable, with one being praised and the other a Sinner, Damned and cut off from guidance 

just because you don’t actively see them getting punished doenst mean it’s not going to happen

Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) gives his justice by his own command, and it’s through his wali. The sword of zulfiqar should suffice as explanation 

I swear I feel like I saw a post just like this a while ago...

Edited by Ralvi
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1 hour ago, Hadi5 said:

@Ralvi @ShiaMan14.

All Movements are the Names of Allah

The praise you make of Allah is His name. When you go to the mosque after washing your feet, you go with the name of Allah. You cannot part with the name of Allah because you yourselves are His name. The beat of pulse, the throbbing of heart and the blowing of wind are all names of Allah. 

Imam Khomine.

This is SPECIFIC to MOMIN

not everyone is momin

like Iblis for example

don’t get confused here brother 

 

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On 2/20/2019 at 11:25 PM, Ralvi said:

This is SPECIFIC to MOMIN

not everyone is momin

like Iblis for example

don’t get confused here brother 

Mr...I think you didn't read the heading "all movement's are names of Allah.

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On 2/20/2019 at 11:23 PM, Ralvi said:

Use your sense here

if someone else is praying and worshipping and praising a ‘deity’ other than Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), and actively and purposely doing, that is NOT worship of Allah

its like comparing the lovers of The Prophet (SAAWS)

to haters of the Prophet(SAAWS)

they are incomparable, with one being praised and the other a Sinner, Damned and cut off from guidance 

just because you don’t actively see them getting punished doenst mean it’s not going to happen

Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) gives his justice by his own command, and it’s through his wali. The sword of zulfiqar should suffice as explanation 

I swear I feel like I saw a post just like this a while ago...

The above was not my but Imam Khomine ra view that worship other' than Allah doesn't exists.Defnitely he is more knowledgeable than you and me.

We are ignorant and so we can't concieve it.

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On 2/20/2019 at 10:13 PM, Hadi5 said:

@Ralvi @ShiaMan14.

All Movements are the Names of Allah

The praise you make of Allah is His name. When you go to the mosque after washing your feet, you go with the name of Allah. You cannot part with the name of Allah because you yourselves are His name. The beat of pulse, the throbbing of heart and the blowing of wind are all names of Allah. 

Sprituality is a journey...from plurality to tawheed.

At the very bottom of the journey or station is this physical world.

You are talking about spiritual journey that at the level of Imam Khomeini and Ayatullah Tabatabaie.  And it took years for them to reach.  

And these Ariffs already have clean up their souls from physical needs and reached to level of Names of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), a station that so high.  All their heart see is Light.

The station in not in this physical world.  The spiritual levels are in hundred.  

The highest level during mi'raj of the Prophet...even Jibrail cannot reach.  

Hadi5, you cannot just qoute writings of Ariffs and in wrong context and for public consumptions. 

You are just a teacher in primary school and talk about quantum physics at the level of a Professor. And your audience is just ordinary people.  

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On 2/21/2019 at 12:20 AM, layman said:

Sprituality is a journey...from plurality to tawheed.

At the very bottom of the journey or station is this physical world.

You are talking about spiritual journey that at the level of Imam Khomeini and Ayatullah Tabatabaie.  And it took years for them to reach.  

And these Ariffs already have clean up their souls from physical needs and reached to level of Names of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), a station that so high.  All their heart see is Light.

The station in not in this physical world.  The spiritual levels are in hundred.  

The highest level during mi'raj of the Prophet...even Jibrail cannot reach.  

Hadi5, you cannot just qoute writings of Ariffs and in wrong context and for public consumptions. 

You are just a teacher in primary school and talk about quantum physics at the level of a Professor. And your audience is just ordinary people.  

I don't know what you mean. I have read something and understood according to my capacity. So I forwarded it for discussion.

May be your point is valid that it is not for people of our level.

How you say I have qouted it in wrong context. Even if it is in wrong context, someone should give it's correct context so I willl learn.

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On 2/20/2019 at 11:31 PM, Hadi5 said:

Mr....I think you didn't read the heading "all movement's are names of Allah.

I don’t think you truly understand physical from metaphorical

finiteness to infiniteness

what you’re posing is not something our Prophet(SAAWS) has said. 

Its your own idea, fair enough you’re allowed to have your own ideas

but don’t attribute them to to Islam and Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

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19 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

I don't know what you mean. I have read something and understood according to my capacity. So I forwarded it for discussion.

May be your point is valid that it is not for people of our level.

How you say I have qouted it in wrong context. Even if it is in wrong context, someone should give it's correct context so I willl learn.

The problem is when you keep quoting and it is out of contact.

We are discussion the condition of people on Earth, but you are quoting condition people on pluto.  

Two different basis.

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1 hour ago, layman said:

The problem is when you keep quoting and it is out of contact.

We are discussion the condition of people on Earth, but you are quoting condition people on pluto.  

Two different basis.

You mean Khomine was not people of Earth.

To whom did wrote all this.

For us or for people of Pluto.

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2 hours ago, Shia farm girl said:

I can touch,smell, taste, etc because Allah is:

Ar Rahman,(The Mercifull, its His mercy manifesting through the senses given to us)  Ar Rahim, (His compassion is manifesting tjrough these senses) Al Baseer (reading brail, for example) Al Muqeet (The Maintainer of our abilities) Al Kareem, Al Hakim (we learn through all our senses) Al Wadud (these senses are granted to us as He is the All Loving and his lovingness is manifested through our use of these faculties) and on and on...

Allahs Names do need to manifest in the most obvious ways, such as  Al Baseer=seeing.  He IS  Al Lateef, (The Subtle) so sometimes seeing Allah in actions may not be so obvious or cut and dry as it is with the first 3 in the example given.

This is how I understand things to be, but im open to different takes and perspectives.

W/s

Very pretty mashallah 

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13 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

Yes, it can.

But why we feel the need to view the matter of human actions ontologically? I mean when God is not owning our actions why & how can anyone say or justify an immoral act as an act of God?

Because there is nothing to “justify” unless you INSIST on view the situation ONLY with respect  to God’s legislative command.  

You must see both sides.  There isn’t just a legislative command, there is also an existentiating command.  And the two should not be conflated. 

The discussion of justice vs injustice is only relevant  to God’s legislation, not in His to His granting of existence to things.

Edited by eThErEaL
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8 hours ago, Shia farm girl said:

I can touch,smell, taste, etc because Allah is:

Ar Rahman,(The Mercifull, its His mercy manifesting through the senses given to us)  Ar Rahim, (His compassion is manifesting tjrough these senses) Al Baseer (reading brail, for example) Al Muqeet (The Maintainer of our abilities) Al Kareem, Al Hakim (we learn through all our senses) Al Wadud (these senses are granted to us as He is the All Loving and his lovingness is manifested through our use of these faculties) and on and on...

Allahs Names do need to manifest in the most obvious ways, such as  Al Baseer=seeing.  He IS  Al Lateef, (The Subtle) so sometimes seeing Allah in actions may not be so obvious or cut and dry as it is with the first 3 in the example given.

This is how I understand things to be, but im open to different takes and perspectives.

W/s

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Our senses are because of Allah blessing us with them;.

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On 2/20/2019 at 8:30 PM, ShiaMan14 said:

Can someone please fill this in for me?

I can see because Allah is All-Seeing!

I can hear because Allah is All-Hearing!

I can touch because Allah is _________.

I can smell because Allah is _________.

I can taste because Allah is _________.

Simple:

God is All-Seeing, All-Hearing, All-Touching, All-Smelling, and God is All-Tasting.  

Which means that that you are not hearing, seeing, touching, smelling, and tasting!

if you think you are hearing, touching, smelling, tasting, you are mistaken!  Only God has those qualities not you.  

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