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Tawheed in action .

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3 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Just you can qoute where in initial conversation which indicates it..

The love of Ahlebayt as , Prophet saww and Qur'an are basics.

I don't think any body deny it.

It’s ok dude

it was about Imam khomenie quote

I emphasized that we could never directly reach Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), wether physically or methaphorically etc

what we could do is reach ahulbayt and in turn they will complete the connection and send our Duas etc to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

so when we feel close to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) keep in mind it’s actaully the ahulbayt and they are in turn helping you to feel close to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

its like a boss who only hears his appointed directors

the directors in turn write down the complaints, adoration, questions of he workers and send it to the Boss.

otherwise our Duas are veiled

The workers can’t bypass the directors, the directors help to get your emails to him

in That way the boss is pretty much an unreachable mystery who sees all but does whatever he wants out of his own wisdom

which Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) makes clear he is

and truly Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is Akbar

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9 minutes ago, Ralvi said:

It’s ok dude

it was about Imam khomenie quote

I emphasized that we could never directly reach Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), wether physically or methaphorically etc

what we could do is reach ahulbayt and in turn they will complete the connection and send our Duas etc to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

so when we feel close to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) keep in mind it’s actaully the ahulbayt and they are in turn helping you to feel close to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

its like a boss who only hears his appointed directors

the directors in turn write down the complaints, adoration, questions of he workers and send it to the Boss.

otherwise our Duas are veiled

The workers can’t bypass the directors, the directors help to get your emails to him

in That way the boss is pretty much an unreachable mystery who sees all but does whatever he wants out of his own wisdom

which Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) makes clear he is

and truly Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is Akbar

Where did in khomines qoute he denied Ahlebayt as . Definitely he is more lover and knower Ahlebayt as.

You yourself prsented as if Khomine ra said Ahlebayt as are needed.

I will simplify it.

My understanding is the our only reason of creation is knowing Allah' and journey towards Allah'.

And Ammbias, Qur'an and Ahlebayt as have shown the guidelines of this journey.

And journey ends when one completely annihilates in Allah'.

Mohammed Hussain Tabtabie says that salvation is when one acknowledges that his all actions and attributes and essence is Allahs.

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21 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Just you can qoute where in initial conversation which indicates it..

The love of Ahlebayt as , Prophet saww and Qur'an are basics.

I don't think any body deny it.

we say one thing with different accents & languages & slangs as Imam Khomenini (رضي الله عنه) said that each group have same agenda but their languages are different like as in rumi story that a group people that have different language wanted same food but because of language barrier they stand against each other until a person that knew language of all of them bought the food & they see that they were wanting same food also mysticall text will heavily damages when comes from Arabic or Farsi with Islamic base to english & other western languages that have Latin & Christian base that translatore can't bring some words & rest of the text will change too much that he had to make a conclusion between two different worlds.

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1 hour ago, islam25 said:

Where did in khomines qoute he denied Ahlebayt as . Definitely he is more lover and knower Ahlebayt as.

You yourself prsented as if Khomine ra said Ahlebayt as are needed.

I will simplify it.

My understanding is the our only reason of creation is knowing Allah' and journey towards Allah'.

And Ammbias, Qur'an and Ahlebayt as have shown the guidelines of this journey.

And journey ends when one completely annihilates in Allah'.

Mohammed Hussain Tabtabie says that salvation is when one acknowledges that his all actions and attributes and essence is Allahs.

I never said any of those things...

why are you confused?

I disagree our purpose is to love Muhammed and ahl Muhammed(SAAWS)

we don’t really have any work to do but to witness them as our masters. They do all the work. Message,law, government and justice they do it all

it’s up to us to follow them without question and love them

and through that will Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) be satisfied with us, only if the Ahlul Bayt are satisfied with us(it’s like a circle, because whatever they feel, do, think are all Allahs(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) etc)

iam saying we can never reach Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) doesn’t need anything

he is self-sustained

he is merciful and he is forgiving 

and Allahs(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) essence, actions and attributes are Muhammad and ahl Muhammed(SAAWS)

thats where true submission comes from

this doesnt have to be an argument

its a discussion

so you can agree dude

I understand English is your second language, just take your time reading 

and I don’t who Mr..tatbatie is, who is he? 

Edited by Ralvi

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22 minutes ago, Ralvi said:

I never said any of those things...

why are you confused?

I disagree our purpose is to love Muhammed and ahl Muhammed(SAAWS)

we don’t really have any work to do but to witness them as our masters. They do all the work. Message,law, government and justice they do it all

it’s up to us to follow them without question and love them

and through that will Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) be satisfied with us, only if the Ahlul Bayt are satisfied with us(it’s like a circle, because whatever they feel, do, think are all Allahs(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) etc)

iam saying we can never reach Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) doesn’t need anything

he is self-sustained

he is merciful and he is forgiving 

and Allahs(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) essence, actions and attributes are Muhammad and ahl Muhammed(SAAWS)

thats where true submission comes from

this doesnt have to be an argument

its a discussion

so you can agree dude

I understand English is your second language, just take your time reading 

and I don’t who Mr....tatbatie is, who is he? 

The central point discussion was Tawheed in action.

If you disagree then knowing Allah' is our aim of creation then I can't help you.

I may say you need revisit understanding of Isalam and teaching of Ahlebayt as.

Now you say we may not reach Allah' Tala.I again say read the narration of Imams and teachings of great Shia scholars.

Because you are saying opposite to them.

You don't know Mohhamad Hussain.

He was top most Shia scholar and mystic of 20th century.

And author of Almizaan. Almizaan is the topmost commenty on Qur'an in Shia world.

Edited by islam25

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38 minutes ago, islam25 said:

The central point discussion was Tawheed in action.

If you disagree then knowing Allah' is our aim of creation then I can't help you.

I may say you need revisit understanding of Isalam and teaching of Ahlebayt as.

Now you say we may not reach Allah' Tala.I again say read the narration of Imams and teachings of great Shia scholars.

Because you are saying opposite to them.

You don't know Mohhamad Hussain.

He was top most Shia scholar and mystic of 20th century.

And author of Almizaan. Almizaan is the topmost commenty on Qur'an in Shia world.

Brother you’re unnecessarily rude

I think you don’t understand what Iam saying, there is a clear language barrier

in the first place I don’t need anything from you

I know the teachings of my masters, I never said that about you, but you feel you can say that about me?

please get off your arbitrary throne 

you couldn’t see that we were actually agreeing

you add in extra words though, at what point did I say anything opposite of what ahulbayt have taught? 

This isn’t a contest, people are allowed to chime in to a discussion with their thoughts and opinions. 

You claimed we can reach Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)in this life, I asked how? And I asked for clarification of a quote you provided. You didn’t explain just brought in philosophical concepts and somebody else quote, not even from an infallible. 

We all return to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), so just what are you arguing? This life is different than the afterlife.

God is G O D!!!!. He is higher, higher than what you thought, and the only way to reach him is through the ahulbayt (I’ve said this in EVERY post)

I suggest you work on your writing and reading skills 

Becuase you can’t just pull quotes out of thin air, without context. It’s essentially meaningless without. You may for some people even have to provide context for quranic verses. If it supports your argument then you must frame it properly. The quotes you pulled neither agreed with you or really even substantiated your claims. So that’s why I requested time, place etc

so please work on that

becuase you are no judger nor watcher over me, that is only Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

Edited by Ralvi

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On 2/20/2019 at 7:31 AM, Shia farm girl said:

As salaamun aleikum,

All actions emanate form Allahs Names. We "see", but the power of seeing is Allahs- He is the real Seer. Of course our intentions are judged, but I am beyond that point. Im looking at the active action of seeing and Who is really doing it...

W/s

 

Agree.

One should understand the Self to be distinct from the body, sense-organs, mind, intellect, and its tendencies (fitrat and desires) and always a witness of their functions, as a king.
To the non-discriminating, the Self appears to be active when the sense organs are functioning, just as the moon appears to be moving when the clouds are moving. 
The body, sense-organs, mind and intellect perform their respective activities due to the Light and Energy of the Self just as all beings are dependent upon the light and energy of the Sun.
But, owing to non-discrimination, the qualities and activities of the body and the sense organs (Nafs) are superimposed on the stainless Self (which is absolute Existence, Consciousness and Bliss), just as we attribute the blue color to the sky.

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3 hours ago, Ralvi said:

Brother you’re unnecessarily rude

I think you don’t understand what Iam saying, there is a clear language barrier

in the first place I don’t need anything from you

I know the teachings of my masters, I never said that about you, but you feel you can say that about me?

please get off your arbitrary throne 

you couldn’t see that we were actually agreeing

you add in extra words though, at what point did I say anything opposite of what ahulbayt have taught? 

This isn’t a contest, people are allowed to chime in to a discussion with their thoughts and opinions. 

You claimed we can reach Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)in this life, I asked how? And I asked for clarification of a quote you provided. You didn’t explain just brought in philosophical concepts and somebody else quote, not even from an infallible. 

We all return to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), so just what are you arguing? This life is different than the afterlife.

God is G O D!!!!. He is higher, higher than what you thought, and the only way to reach him is through the ahulbayt (I’ve said this in EVERY post)

I suggest you work on your writing and reading skills 

Becuase you can’t just pull quotes out of thin air, without context. It’s essentially meaningless without. You may for some people even have to provide context for quranic verses. If it supports your argument then you must frame it properly. The quotes you pulled neither agreed with you or really even substantiated your claims. So that’s why I requested time, place etc

so please work on that

becuase you are no judger nor watcher over me, that is only Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

I have nothing personal .I just forwarded what great scholars say.If they are wrong you are free to go to Qom and challenge them.

It our main purpose of life is journey to Allah and know Him.And it is not my  but great Shia scholars teaching ,who definitely have spent their life by studying teachings of Qur'an and Ahlebayt as. I can't help your denial.

How this journey is travelled I have written above What the scholars say.This journey has stages and needs guide.

Following is Quranic verse with its commentry that may help you.

Allah, the Most High, says:

And whoever leaves his house migrating to Allah and His Messenger, and then death overtakes him, his reward is, indeed, with Allah.”2

The formal migration, or the form of migration, is the corporeal migration from the formal house to the ka'bah or to the shrines of the holy men [awliyā'] ('a), but the spiritual migration is the going out of the house of the soul and the house of this world to Allah and His Messenger. To migrate to the Messenger and the guardian [walī] is also a migration to Allah.

As long as one's soul has an inclination to oneself and to egotism, it is not journeying. And so long as there are residues of Oneness in the sālik's eyes, and as long as the walls of his own town and the adhānannouncing selfishness have not yet disappeared, he is regarded as a staying one, not a traveler or an emigrant.

It is stated in Misbāh ash-Sharī'ah that Imām as-Sādiq ('a) said: “Servitude is a gem whose core is Lordship [rubūbiyyat]. Whatever is lost of servitude is found in the Lordship, and whatever is hidden of Lordship is obtained by servitude.” 3

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8 hours ago, islam25 said:

I have nothing personal .I just forwarded what great scholars say.If they are wrong you are free to go to Qom and challenge them.

It our main purpose of life is journey to Allah and know Him.And it is not my  but great Shia scholars teaching ,who definitely have spent their life by studying teachings of Qur'an and Ahlebayt as. I can't help your denial.

How this journey is travelled I have written above What the scholars say.This journey has stages and needs guide.

Following is Quranic verse with its commentry that may help you.

Allah, the Most High, says:

And whoever leaves his house migrating to Allah and His Messenger, and then death overtakes him, his reward is, indeed, with Allah.”2

The formal migration, or the form of migration, is the corporeal migration from the formal house to the ka'bah or to the shrines of the holy men [awliyā'] ('a), but the spiritual migration is the going out of the house of the soul and the house of this world to Allah and His Messenger. To migrate to the Messenger and the guardian [walī] is also a migration to Allah.

As long as one's soul has an inclination to oneself and to egotism, it is not journeying. And so long as there are residues of Oneness in the sālik's eyes, and as long as the walls of his own town and the adhānannouncing selfishness have not yet disappeared, he is regarded as a staying one, not a traveler or an emigrant.

It is stated in Misbāh ash-Sharī'ah that Imām as-Sādiq ('a) said: “Servitude is a gem whose core is Lordship [rubūbiyyat]. Whatever is lost of servitude is found in the Lordship, and whatever is hidden of Lordship is obtained by servitude.” 3

You previously only quoted an ambiguous quote from Imam khomenie, without context, I gave my opinion

then you moved onto saying I was against what scholars or Imams are saying...a baseless claim. You took personal offense, I never said a thing against their teachings. I don’t kow what you took offense at but it’s badly misplaced

the quotes you just provided don’t really go against what Iam saying and in fact kinda reinforce it

so the discussion has not moved along

I think I’ll leave it at that 

Edited by Ralvi

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12 hours ago, Shams of tabriz said:

Agree.

One should understand the Self to be distinct from the body, sense-organs, mind, intellect, and its tendencies (fitrat and desires) and always a witness of their functions, as a king.
To the non-discriminating, the Self appears to be active when the sense organs are functioning, just as the moon appears to be moving when the clouds are moving. 
The body, sense-organs, mind and intellect perform their respective activities due to the Light and Energy of the Self just as all beings are dependent upon the light and energy of the Sun.
But, owing to non-discrimination, the qualities and activities of the body and the sense organs (Nafs) are superimposed on the stainless Self (which is absolute Existence, Consciousness and Bliss), just as we attribute the blue color to the sky.

Hmm interesting perspective 

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1 hour ago, Ralvi said:

You previously only quoted an ambiguous quote from Imam khomenie, without context, I gave my opinion

then you moved onto saying I was against what scholars or Imams are saying...a baseless claim. You took personal offense, I never said a thing against their teachings. I don’t kow what you took offense at but it’s badly misplaced

the quotes you just provided don’t really go against what Iam saying and in fact kinda reinforce it

so the discussion has not moved along

I think I’ll leave it at that 

If the qoutes I provided do not go against what you say,and we are agreeing it then yes discussion is ended. 

But I will paste below your two qoutes which indicates that you were differing .

1 "And sir with all due respect, nobody can travel to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)"

2 " disagree our purpose is to love Muhammed and ahl Muhammed(SAAWS.)

 

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1 hour ago, islam25 said:

If the qoutes I provided do not go against what you say,and we are agreeing it then yes discussion is ended. 

But I will paste below your two qoutes which indicates that you were differing .

1 "And sir with all due respect, nobody can travel to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)"

2 " disagree our purpose is to love Muhammed and ahl Muhammed(SAAWS.)

 

Travel-can you go right now to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)? Can you make dua to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) without doing ash hado Anna Muhammad Rasoolullah? Ash hado Anna Aliyun waliyulla? Can your Duas be unveiled if you don’t do tasbee e Fatima? 

2- how is that contradicting anything?

Did Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) actually make you testify Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is one? Did you actaully eitness it?iam drawing parables for you... in actuality we don’t really have anything to do except love the ones he put into place. Then and only then can our hearts reach Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)...hard to put into words. It’s something your heart and soul feels 

loving Muhammed and ahl Muhammed(SAAWS) is the only way to get to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), without that you can never even think about connecting to him

he wants us to love them, just like he said in the Qur'an, we can’t bypass them. Loving them IS loving Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), is connecting to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), is reaching Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

no contradictions

look at this way

youre giving me a piece of the pie

but Iam giving you the whole pie

youre giving me a piece of the puzzle

iam giving you the entire puzzle

 

spiritual journeys are different person to person. That’s your personal story. It’s what makes every human unique. I connect via fleeting feelings, reflection, dreams and dua

you probably have your own unique way, that’s cool. Just earnestly follow Muhammed and ahl Muhammed(SAAWS) and what will be the problem?

Edited by Ralvi

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2 hours ago, Ralvi said:

Travel-can you go right now to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)? Can you make dua to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) without doing ash hado Anna Muhammad Rasoolullah? Ash hado Anna Aliyun waliyulla? Can your Duas be unveiled if you don’t do tasbee e Fatima? 

2- how is that contradicting anything?

Did Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) actually make you testify Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is one? Did you actaully eitness it?iam drawing parables for you... in actuality we don’t really have anything to do except love the ones he put into place. Then and only then can our hearts reach Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)...hard to put into words. It’s something your heart and soul feels 

loving Muhammed and ahl Muhammed(SAAWS) is the only way to get to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), without that you can never even think about connecting to him

he wants us to love them, just like he said in the Qur'an, we can’t bypass them. Loving them IS loving Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), is connecting to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), is reaching Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

no contradictions

look at this way

youre giving me a piece of the pie

but Iam giving you the whole pie

youre giving me a piece of the puzzle

iam giving you the entire puzzle

 

spiritual journeys are different person to person. That’s your personal story. It’s what makes every human unique. I connect via fleeting feelings, reflection, dreams and dua

you probably have your own unique way, that’s cool. Just earnestly follow Muhammed and ahl Muhammed(SAAWS) and what will be the problem?

Now if you agree that we have to travel to Allah then definitely the disagreement is over.

Second point is  how to reach .There is well established guidelines and requirements for.One has follow that'.

Nobody denies the love of Mohammed saww and Ahlebayt as.

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1 hour ago, islam25 said:

Now if you agree that we have to travel to Allah then definitely the disagreement is over.

Second point is  how to reach .There is well established guidelines and requirements for.One has follow that'.

Nobody denies the love of Mohammed saww and Ahlebayt as.

Ok brother that’s great! We agree! Nice nice, a lover of Muhammed and Ahl Muhammed(SAAWS) is a friend of mine!

haha let’s move on now! Im going to explode! 

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37 minutes ago, Ralvi said:

Ok brother that’s great! We agree! Nice nice, a lover of Muhammed and Ahl Muhammed(SAAWS) is a friend of mine!

haha let’s move on now! Im going to explode! 

This was a good discussion.Our disagreement was because of poor communication.Still there's long distance to go.

I appreciate your patience .We need to read good scholars and debate.so that our misunderstanding will be cleared.

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4 minutes ago, islam25 said:

This was a good discussion.Our disagreement was because of poor communication.Still there's long distance to go.

I appreciate your patience .We need to read good scholars and debate.so that our misunderstanding will be cleared.

Yes completely agree

May Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) ease your burdens and give you success

wasalam brother 

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On 2/26/2019 at 1:36 AM, ShiaMan14 said:

Did you write this or Allah?

LA ILAHA ILLALLAH.

"I" do not exist neither "my" writing nor the tablet on which "I am" writing. Only Allah exist.

We must understand that, so long as we perceive a “world,” there is an apparent duality; apparent, because, while there is always One and One alone, there is the appearance of two-ness. Take, for example, the Sun and its rays: it appears to be two things, but, in fact, it is one thing. Or take the mind and its thoughts: they are apparently two. But no, there is only the mind. Shall we say, then, that the rays are unreal, imaginary? Or that the thoughts are non-existent? No. Nor can we say they are real. They have no independent reality; that is to say, they do not exist independent of their source. It is like that also with Allah and the world. The world is a manifestation of 
Allah, and from that perspective, the two are one. But Allah is eternal, while the world has but an ephemeral transient appearance, like a thought. Therefore, like a thought, the world is neither real nor unreal. The one who understand Tawheed call it “Illusion.”

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