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Murtaza1

Could this "Personal Care Assistant" job be haram?

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Salam a laikum,

I have been offered a job as a Personal Care Assistant. Would this job be haram for me to do?

The job entails supporting people in their own homes because of their  physical or mental weakness, illness or social problems that prevents them from taking care of themselves? 

The tasks of the job would include dealing with their personal hygiene such as giving them a shower and even toiletry tasks, assisting them with their medications and cooking and serving food and drinks which could include pork and alcohol. 

I have just come to realise this problem. So I am starting to have doubts about this job, even though I have been offered this job now but it didn't cross my mind during the job interview.

However the employer is flexible with me and said they would assist me by designating jobs around my prayer needs in advance, so I will have a chance to accept or reject certain assignments depending if there are any local mosques around for me to perform my daily prayers. 

I am now considering turning down this job or telling my employer that I will not be able to make or serve pork or alcohol. I also hope that other tasks such as showering and personal care won't be haram for me to do. Although they said personal care tasks will only be for their male clients. I am also a male so I hope that makes it more okay. 

Any opinions on what I should do and what are the rulings for such a case ? 

Jazakalah 

Edited by Murtaza1

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3 hours ago, Hassan- said:

If showering them means you have to see their private parts, then it’s haram.

Nurses and doctors see this too. His job sounds commendable too as it is caring for people imcapable of doing so themselves.

Best to ask your marja @Murtaza1 

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15 hours ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

Nurses and doctors see this too. His job sounds commendable too as it is caring for people imcapable of doing so themselves.

Best to ask your marja @Murtaza1 

Doesn’t matter if it’s the norm and doctors do it, it’s impermissible for a man to see the two private parts of any baligh man or women except for his wife , unless it is absolutely necessary.

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9 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

Doesn’t matter if it’s the norm and doctors do it, it’s impermissible for a man to see the two private parts of any baligh man or women except for his wife , unless it is absolutely necessary.

In regards to medical practioners Sistani permits this, like you said if absolutely necessary. 

Now I'm sure there are female carers, but presuppose a baligh man is, as @Murtaza1 said, are unable to care for themselves, as a matter of dignity someone needs to help them, and not everyone has family to help. I am not saying a personal care assistant is on par with medical practise, but it may be neccessary to carry out some of the work required, which is needed.

Anyway, do post the reply from a marja once you have the reply @Murtaza1 as far as I know no one here is one.

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2 minutes ago, Propaganda_of_the_Deed said:

In regards to medical practioners Sistani permits this, like you said if absolutely necessary. 

Now I'm sure there are female carers, but presuppose a baligh man is, as @Murtaza1 said, are unable to care for themselves, as a matter of dignity someone needs to help them, and not everyone has family to help. I am not saying a personal care assistant is on par with medical practise, but it may be neccessary to carry out some of the work required, which is needed.

Anyway, do post the reply from a marja once you have the reply @Murtaza1 as far as I know no one here is one.

These patients genuinely need help but it is not an extreme necessity and there are other carers available too. For me it is not a necessity to do the job. I may just need to look for another job, I could live without it. Sure I will try and post the answer from the marja. 

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Hopefully these people get the help they need. Not sure how people deem what's "absolutely necessary" or not.

Looks like the duty for their care will be up to non-Muslims. If there were only Muslims around this area who interpreted rulings as stated above, I guess these ill people would be out of luck.

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6 minutes ago, Reza said:

Hopefully these people get the help they need. Not sure how people deem what's "absolutely necessary" or not.

Looks like the duty for their care will be up to non-Muslims. If there were only Muslims around this area who interpreted rulings as stated above, I guess these ill people would be out of luck.

@Reza you are right but I'm sure there must be Muslim care agencies in Muslim populated areas but this area is not. The good news is non of these clients are near life ending stage, so they are doing quite well. 

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2 hours ago, Reza said:

Hopefully these people get the help they need. Not sure how people deem what's "absolutely necessary" or not.

Looks like the duty for their care will be up to non-Muslims. If there were only Muslims around this area who interpreted rulings as stated above, I guess these ill people would be out of luck.

:salam:

 

2 hours ago, Murtaza1 said:

@Reza you are right but I'm sure there must be Muslim care agencies in Muslim populated areas but this area is not. The good news is non of these clients are near life ending stage, so they are doing quite well. 

Looking beyond the point @Reza made. That would also mean such care would be impossible in a 100% Muslim country ? 

That is a sad reasoning. Isn't someone supposed to provide care for his elders, parents etc? (Incl intimate hygiene)?

Then why not to Muslim brothers, and for daily sustenance? 

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49 minutes ago, realizm said:

:salam:

 

Looking beyond the point @Reza made. That would also mean such care would be impossible in a 100% Muslim country ? 

That is a sad reasoning. Isn't someone supposed to provide care for his elders, parents etc? (Incl intimate hygiene)?

Then why not to Muslim brothers, and for daily sustenance? 

First you got to ask yourself a few questions. Is it possible for a person to care for the elderly without seeing their private parts (e.g. cover their parts with a small towel when showering them) ? If that’s not possible, then are their non-Muslims around that are able to care for them? If not, then it will be permissible for the man to see his private parts just for the purpose of caring for him, if the elder needs it. If any questions are a yes, then it is impermissible to see his private parts.

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3 hours ago, realizm said:

:salam:

 

Looking beyond the point @Reza made. That would also mean such care would be impossible in a 100% Muslim country ? 

That is a sad reasoning. Isn't someone supposed to provide care for his elders, parents etc? (Incl intimate hygiene)?

Then why not to Muslim brothers, and for daily sustenance? 

I am not saying that Muslim clients do not deserve care, of course they do. I think it depends on the carers intentions. Naturally caring for parents or the elderly would not bring lustful intentions. There are Muslim populated areas in the United Kingdom such as Southall and Birmingham. I'm sure they probably have care givers to serve them according to Islamic principles. 

@Hassan- has a interesting point too. So if seeing private parts is a definite no no then a non Muslim person may be able to do it but I don’t think that would solve the problem because if the whole country became Muslim then it would still be a dilemna. That's why I say it should depend on the care givers intentions. Doctors are allowed to see private parts and they do not have lustful intension and those are their practical principles too. So maybe we should review the situation in the same way.

I spoke to my employer today. They said alcohol will definetly not be an issue because they do not serve alcohol to anyone. I may have to serve beef but they have made a note about pork and I do not have to worry about that. They would also not give me assignments that require washing the client, which means I will get less work. I am still considering if I should except the job. They have asked me to give my answer to them on Tuesday. 

Edited by Murtaza1

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6 hours ago, Murtaza1 said:

I spoke to my employer today. They said alcohol will definetly not be an issue because they do not serve alcohol to anyone. I may have to serve beef but they have made a note about pork and I do not have to worry about that. They would also not give me assignments that require washing the client, which means I will get less work. I am still considering if I should except the job. They have asked me to give my answer to them on Tuesday. 

Salam if these problem solved , I recommend you to take the job if you like it.

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8 hours ago, Hassan- said:

First you got to ask yourself a few questions. Is it possible for a person to care for the elderly without seeing their private parts (e.g. cover their parts with a small towel when showering them) ? If that’s not possible, then are their non-Muslims around that are able to care for them? If not, then it will be permissible for the man to see his private parts just for the purpose of caring for him, if the elder needs it. If any questions are a yes, then it is impermissible to see his private parts.

Lol so before accepting a job one should make sure there is no non-Muslim in the area that could do the job ?

Sorry, but that is when those practical laws of Islam become impractical. If a job is vacant that means no one has taken it, Muslim or not. 

Oh and by the way brother, how does one adult male Muslim get circumcised ? Wait until just before death to bring up the emergency card so the doctor can be allowed to circumcise him for haj purposes otherwise it will be deemed non wajib?

How do gynecologists still have work ? Not perform regular checkups, and wait for uterus cancer or serious infections to examine their patients?

Come on brothers, there is lust, and there is medicine. There is sin, and there is duty. 

Last question for you, would you be allowed to perform toilet for your old parents?

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6 hours ago, Murtaza1 said:

I am not saying that Muslim clients do not deserve care, of course they do. I think it depends on the carers intentions. Naturally caring for parents or the elderly would not bring lustful intentions. There are Muslim populated areas in the United Kingdom such as Southall and Birmingham. I'm sure they probably have care givers to serve them according to Islamic principles. 

@Hassan- has a interesting point too. So if seeing private parts is a definite no no then a non Muslim person may be able to do it but I don’t think that would solve the problem because if the whole country became Muslim then it would still be a dilemna. That's why I say it should depend on the care givers intentions. Doctors are allowed to see private parts and they do not have lustful intension and those are their practical principles too. So maybe we should review the situation in the same way.

I spoke to my employer today. They said alcohol will definetly not be an issue because they do not serve alcohol to anyone. I may have to serve beef but they have made a note about pork and I do not have to worry about that. They would also not give me assignments that require washing the client, which means I will get less work. I am still considering if I should except the job. They have asked me to give my answer to them on Tuesday. 

:salam:

See, verily with hardship comes ease :)

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5 hours ago, realizm said:

Lol so before accepting a job one should make sure there is no non-Muslim in the area that could do the job ?

Sorry, but that is when those practical laws of Islam become impractical. If a job is vacant that means no one has taken it, Muslim or not. 

Oh and by the way brother, how does one adult male Muslim get circumcised ? Wait until just before death to bring up the emergency card so the doctor can be allowed to circumcise him for haj purposes otherwise it will be deemed non wajib?

How do gynecologists still have work ? Not perform regular checkups, and wait for uterus cancer or serious infections to examine their patients?

Come on brothers, there is lust, and there is medicine. There is sin, and there is duty. 

Last question for you, would you be allowed to perform toilet for your old parents?

Before accepting a job you should see what scope of work they will make you do. If they want you to do something haram, you should reject it if you live in a non-Muslim country, because a kafir will most likely take that job. If it’s in a Muslim country and there is only Muslims around, then that’s a different story and I’ve mentioned already that it becomes permissible if it’s necessary.

It is wajib for a baligh man to circumcise himself, and one of the scholars (Sayed Sabah shubbar) talked about this issue. It’s haram for another person to circumcise another man, unless it’s absolutely necessary. First the man must take lessons on how to circumcise himself safely, or get his wife to do it. But if for some reason that’s not possible then someone else can do it for him.

Generally speaking, In Islam doing something haram should be your last resort. You must always try to go for the halal way first.

As for your question, it’s pretty simple. It is haram to see the private parts of an old person the same way it’s haram for an old person to show his private parts to someone else. However, if it’s necessary, then it’s halal, and you as their child can give them the care they need.

Edited by Hassan-

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11 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam if these problem solved , I recommend you to take the job if you like it.

Walaikum a salam,

Thank you for your advice brother. I don't like this job mainly because of personal toilet care tasks. The employer told me most people don't do this job because of this reason. I'm not sure if it will be worth my time with this job as I also wouldn't earn much money because of restricticting myself. 

Edited by Murtaza1

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