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In the Name of God بسم الله

WHY TABOOT AND ALAM IN Shia ASHURKHANA

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Why Shia people create alam and taboot ?? why you asking from Imam Ali ((عليه السلام)) ???  why there start a think like Israel people (as per below reference)  ? 

And We took the Children of Israel across the sea; then they came upon a people intent in devotion to [some] idols of theirs. They said, "O Moses, make for us a God just as they have gods." He said, "Indeed, you are a people behaving ignorantly.

_

Verse (7:138)

 

I hope a good reply 

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When we are kissing the alam which has Imam Hussain’s name written on it, this is a sign of respect to Imam Hussain. Just like when someone kisses the Qur’an he is not glorifying or respecting the cov

You must have your metal health checked if you really think that they believe the horse is going to listen to their "dau" or even understand what they're saying.  What would be they saying to horse

Those who object on Zuljanah, should see chapter 100, how Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is praising the horses of mujahideen. Surah Al-Adiyat, Verse 1: وَالْعَادِيَاتِ ضَبْحًا I swear

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Salam this practices first appeared in buyyid dynasty in Persia. In all likelyhood it was a mix of zaidi and suffi practices that came up with these concepts. As a zaidi Shia I can tell you there is no connection to Islam or more specifically teachings of Ahlul Bayt and was a mistake that became popular. Unfortunately it's widely practiced now 

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All religions have unorthodox practices , I'm not opposed to Alam , coffin and horse as I used to be as I think imagery is sometimes important in religious commemoration.

problem is sometimes these rituals become the end in itself and that's where the problem starts 

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I think with the right niyat the symbolism initself is not a problen. But the devil is in the detail when it comes to these practices. But I'd say it's best avoided and to stick to those practices thought by the Prophet.

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^ indeed they were big cottage industries right upto 20th century 

I'm old brothers I'm not so full of fire and fury against bidah and ghuluu like I used to be 

I say much bigger evil is when our grand religious leaders mislead and misinform people while claiming to be custodians of faith 

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13 hours ago, NASRULLAH Ali said:

And We took the Children of Israel across the sea; then they came upon a people intent in devotion to [some] idols of theirs. They said, "O Moses, make for us a God just as they have gods." He said, "Indeed, you are a people behaving ignorantly.

_

Verse (7:138)

It seems to me that you keep a lot of idols in your mind & heart. Your heart is not yet reserved only for the One besides whom there is no God, and perhaps that is the reason you doubt on the sincerety of other believers.

أَإِلَهٌ مَّعَ اللَّهِ قَلِيلًا مَّا تَذَكَّرُونَ

Could there be any divine power besides Allah? How seldom do you keep this in mind!

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13 hours ago, NASRULLAH Ali said:

Why Shia people create alam and taboot ?? why you asking from Imam Ali ((عليه السلام)) ???  why there start a think like Israel people (as per below reference)  ? 

And We took the Children of Israel across the sea; then they came upon a people intent in devotion to [some] idols of theirs. They said, "O Moses, make for us a God just as they have gods." He said, "Indeed, you are a people behaving ignorantly.

_

Verse (7:138)

 

I hope a good reply 

Read more about what tawassul means in Shia Islam .

creating alam and taboot are for respect to our Imams (عليه السلام) , not to worship them. A lot of Sunnis tend to misunderstand that and accuse us for committing shirk.

we don’t make Alams to make different gods, how dare you compare us to them.

We don’t start ‘a think’ like them. 

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8 hours ago, Warilla said:

Salam this practices first appeared in buyyid dynasty in Persia. In all likelyhood it was a mix of zaidi and suffi practices that came up with these concepts. As a zaidi Shia I can tell you there is no connection to Islam or more specifically teachings of Ahlul Bayt and was a mistake that became popular. Unfortunately it's widely practiced now 

using these signs like as current Alam started from Safavid period in response of using cross by Christians that every unit of Safavid army had a sign that through time it becomes more decorated & heavier than before during buyyid dynasty the mourning was very simple that they may were using drums to invite & inform people about it & using Taboot & Nakhl is exagerating of people that turns to a ritual stuff but there is nothing un Islamic in these stuff 

6 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

^ indeed they were big cottage industries right upto 20th century 

I'm old brothers I'm not so full of fire and fury against bidah and ghuluu like I used to be 

I say much bigger evil is when our grand religious leaders mislead and misinform people while claiming to be custodians of faith 

the using these symbols many times condemned by Shia scholars but because it's popularity people are using these stuff there is a famous story that one of Great Shia Marjas in Iraq one time gathered people people in day of Ashura & talked with them to not use these symbols in their procession suddenly one man stand & said " we obey you in whole of year but today doesn't belong to you & we don't listen to you in this day that after that people take the stuffs and scatterd & leave him alone"

Edited by Ashvazdanghe
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Mawla Abbas(عليه السلام) carried Alam, and he touched the tongue of Imam Ali(عليه السلام), and is Imam Ali’s representative in Karbala, who is Allah appointed. The status of the Alam bearer is beyond any league we comprehend and is the symbol of ultimate justice and sacrifice 

we created nothing, we follow what Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) loves

 

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On 2/19/2019 at 12:49 PM, Ralvi said:

Mawla Abbas(عليه السلام) carried Alam, and he touched the tongue of Imam Ali(عليه السلام), and is Imam Ali’s representative in Karbala, who is Allah appointed. The status of the Alam bearer is beyond any league we comprehend and is the symbol of ultimate justice and sacrifice 

we created nothing, we follow what Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) loves

 

Assalaamualaykum,

Alam, Taboot and Horses might not be wrong as we do not worship them, rather we just show our respect to them as it help us to commemorate the martyrdom of Imam Hussain(عليه السلام). But I believe, it can be extremely dangerous in long run or for our upcoming generations, this hadeeth led me to believe. And History do repeats
 

1 أبي (رحمه الله) قال حدثنا سعد بن عبد الله قال حدثنا أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى قال حدثني محمد بن خالد البرقي قال حدثني حماد بن عيسى عن حريز بن عبد الله السجستاني عن جعفر بن محمد (ع) في قول الله عز وجل و قالوا لا تذرن آلهتكم و لا تذرن ودا و لا سوطا و لا يغوث و يعوق و نسرا قال كانوا يعبدون الله عز و جلمات فقاوا فضج قومهم و شق ذلك عليهم ف أهلهم إبليس لعنه الله فقال لهم أتخذ لكم أصناما على صورهم فتنظرون إليهم و تأنسون بهم و تعبدون الله فأعد لهم أصناما على سبيل المثال فكانوا يعبدون الله عز وجل و ينظرون إلى تلك الأصنام فلما جاء الشتاء و الأمطار أدخلوا الأصنام البيوت فلم يزالوا يعبدون الله عز و جل حتى هلك ذلك القرن و نشأ أولادهم فقالوا إن آباءنا كانوا يعبدون هاو تو ذي سومر أوف ذي غودس أوف ذي غودس أوف ذي غود،

My father said, ‘Sa’ad Bin Abdullah narrated to us, from Ahmad Bin Muhammad Ibn Isa, from Muhammad Bin Khalid Al barqy, from Hamaad Bin Isa, from Hareyz Ibn Abdullah Al Sajastany,

(It has been narrated) from Ja’far Bin Muhammad (عليه السلام) regarding the Words of Allah Mighty and Majestic [71:23] And they have said (to each other), 'Abandon not your gods: Abandon neither Wadd nor Suwa', neither Yaguth nor Ya'uq, nor Nasr. The Imam said: ‘They (the mentioned) used to be worshiping Allah Mighty and Majestic. They died. It was grievous upon their people, so Iblees came to them and said to them, ‘Take idols for yourselves upon their images, so that you can look towards them, and be cordial with them and you can (still) be worshiping Allah’.

So he prepared idols for them upon their resemblances. So they used to be worshiping Allah Mighty and Majestic, and were looking towards those idols. So when the winter came upon them, and the rains, they entered the idols into their houses. So they did not stop worshiping Allah Mighty and Majestic until that generation died off, and their children grew up. So they (new generation) said, ‘Our fathers used to worship these, therefore worship them besides Allah Mighty and Majestic’. So these are the Words of Allah Blessed and High [71:23] Abandon neither Wadd nor Suwa – the Verse’.

Source:

  1. Ilail as-Sharai by Shaykh Sadooq, Vol 1, Pg 3, Ch 3, H 1.

Grading:

  1. Shaykh Asif Muhsini said hadeeth has "Mo'tabar Sanad" (Reliable Chain) in Masharat Behar al-Anwar, Vol 1, Pg 109.

 

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Those who object on Zuljanah, should see chapter 100, how Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is praising the horses of mujahideen.

Surah Al-Adiyat, Verse 1:

وَالْعَادِيَاتِ ضَبْحًا

I swear by the runners breathing pantingly, (English - Shakir) 

Surah Al-Adiyat, Verse 2:

فَالْمُورِيَاتِ قَدْحًا

Then those that produce fire striking, (English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Adiyat, Verse 3:

فَالْمُغِيرَاتِ صُبْحًا

Then those that make raids at morn, (English - Shakir)

"Taboot" in the verses of Qur'an:

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 248:

وَقَالَ لَهُمْ نَبِيُّهُمْ إِنَّ آيَةَ مُلْكِهِ أَن يَأْتِيَكُمُ التَّابُوتُ فِيهِ سَكِينَةٌ مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ وَبَقِيَّةٌ مِّمَّا تَرَكَ آلُ مُوسَىٰ وَآلُ هَارُونَ تَحْمِلُهُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ إِنَّ فِي ذَٰلِكَ لَآيَةً لَّكُمْ إِن كُنتُم مُّؤْمِنِينَ

And the Prophet said to them: Surely the sign of His kingdom is, that there shall come to you the chest in which there is tranquillity from your Lord and residue of the relics of what the children of Musa and the children of Haroun have left, the angels bearing it; most surely there is a sign in this for those who believe. (English - Shakir) 

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1 hour ago, Aquib Rizvi said:

Assalaamualaykum,

Alam, Taboot and Horses might not be wrong as we do not worship them, rather we just show our respect to them as it help us to commemorate the martyrdom of Imam Hussain(عليه السلام). But I believe, it can be extremely dangerous in long run or for our upcoming generations, this hadeeth led me to believe. And History do repeats
 

1 أبي (رحمه الله) قال حدثنا سعد بن عبد الله قال حدثنا أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى قال حدثني محمد بن خالد البرقي قال حدثني حماد بن عيسى عن حريز بن عبد الله السجستاني عن جعفر بن محمد (ع) في قول الله عز وجل و قالوا لا تذرن آلهتكم و لا تذرن ودا و لا سوطا و لا يغوث و يعوق و نسرا قال كانوا يعبدون الله عز و جلمات فقاوا فضج قومهم و شق ذلك عليهم ف أهلهم إبليس لعنه الله فقال لهم أتخذ لكم أصناما على صورهم فتنظرون إليهم و تأنسون بهم و تعبدون الله فأعد لهم أصناما على سبيل المثال فكانوا يعبدون الله عز وجل و ينظرون إلى تلك الأصنام فلما جاء الشتاء و الأمطار أدخلوا الأصنام البيوت فلم يزالوا يعبدون الله عز و جل حتى هلك ذلك القرن و نشأ أولادهم فقالوا إن آباءنا كانوا يعبدون هاو تو ذي سومر أوف ذي غودس أوف ذي غودس أوف ذي غود،

My father said, ‘Sa’ad Bin Abdullah narrated to us, from Ahmad Bin Muhammad Ibn Isa, from Muhammad Bin Khalid Al barqy, from Hamaad Bin Isa, from Hareyz Ibn Abdullah Al Sajastany,

(It has been narrated) from Ja’far Bin Muhammad (عليه السلام) regarding the Words of Allah Mighty and Majestic [71:23] And they have said (to each other), 'Abandon not your gods: Abandon neither Wadd nor Suwa', neither Yaguth nor Ya'uq, nor Nasr. The Imam said: ‘They (the mentioned) used to be worshiping Allah Mighty and Majestic. They died. It was grievous upon their people, so Iblees came to them and said to them, ‘Take idols for yourselves upon their images, so that you can look towards them, and be cordial with them and you can (still) be worshiping Allah’.

So he prepared idols for them upon their resemblances. So they used to be worshiping Allah Mighty and Majestic, and were looking towards those idols. So when the winter came upon them, and the rains, they entered the idols into their houses. So they did not stop worshiping Allah Mighty and Majestic until that generation died off, and their children grew up. So they (new generation) said, ‘Our fathers used to worship these, therefore worship them besides Allah Mighty and Majestic’. So these are the Words of Allah Blessed and High [71:23] Abandon neither Wadd nor Suwa – the Verse’.

Source:

  1. Ilail as-Sharai by Shaykh Sadooq, Vol 1, Pg 3, Ch 3, H 1.

Grading:

  1. Shaykh Asif Muhsini said hadeeth has "Mo'tabar Sanad" (Reliable Chain) in Masharat Behar al-Anwar, Vol 1, Pg 109.

 

Alam isn’t an idol? In fact Imam e Zaman will be carrying one?

just what’s dangerous here?

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On 2/19/2019 at 8:13 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

using these signs like as current Alam started from Safavid period in response of using cross by Christians that every unit of Safavid army had a sign that through time it becomes more decorated & heavier than before during buyyid dynasty the mourning was very simple that they may were using drums to invite & inform people about it & using Taboot & Nakhl is exagerating of people that turns to a ritual stuff but there is nothing un Islamic in these stuff 

the using these symbols many times condemned by Shia scholars but because it's popularity people are using these stuff there is a famous story that one of Great Shia Marjas in Iraq one time gathered people people in day of Ashura & talked with them to not use these symbols in their procession suddenly one man stand & said " we obey you in whole of year but today doesn't belong to you & we don't listen to you in this day that after that people take the stuffs and scatterd & leave him alone"

:salam:

Imagine how Imam Mahdi (aj) will feel when people will leave him alone.

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2 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

Those who object on Zuljanah, should see chapter 100, how Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is praising the horses of mujahideen.

Surah Al-Adiyat, Verse 1:

وَالْعَادِيَاتِ ضَبْحًا

I swear by the runners breathing pantingly, (English - Shakir) 

Surah Al-Adiyat, Verse 2:

فَالْمُورِيَاتِ قَدْحًا

Then those that produce fire striking, (English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Adiyat, Verse 3:

فَالْمُغِيرَاتِ صُبْحًا

Then those that make raids at morn, (English - Shakir)

"Taboot" in the verses of Qur'an:

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 248:

وَقَالَ لَهُمْ نَبِيُّهُمْ إِنَّ آيَةَ مُلْكِهِ أَن يَأْتِيَكُمُ التَّابُوتُ فِيهِ سَكِينَةٌ مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ وَبَقِيَّةٌ مِّمَّا تَرَكَ آلُ مُوسَىٰ وَآلُ هَارُونَ تَحْمِلُهُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ إِنَّ فِي ذَٰلِكَ لَآيَةً لَّكُمْ إِن كُنتُم مُّؤْمِنِينَ

And the Prophet said to them: Surely the sign of His kingdom is, that there shall come to you the chest in which there is tranquillity from your Lord and residue of the relics of what the children of Musa and the children of Haroun have left, the angels bearing it; most surely there is a sign in this for those who believe. (English - Shakir) 

Those are not holy relics or horses of mujahideen. They are made in China fabrics and farm animals brought in a superstitious gathering.

Please stop condoning ridiculous stuff.

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53 minutes ago, realizm said:

Please stop condoning ridiculous stuff.

And with due respect, I request you to stop displaying ignorance. 

Holy Qur’an has kept the memory of Prophet Ibrahim's sacrifice alive and called all the animals of sacrifice as ‘signs of Allah'.

And stop being partners of those who put on us false allegations of worshiping idols. At least fear Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)!!

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3 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

And with due respect, I request you to stop displaying ignorance. 

Holy Qur’an has kept the memory of Prophet Ibrahim's sacrifice alive and called all the animals of sacrifice as ‘signs of Allah'.

And stop being partners of those who put on us false allegations of worshiping idols. At least fear Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)!!

I do not accuse any of you of worshipping idols. I just find it completely ridiculous to bow to a white horse thinking it is holy. 

And I am struggling to find the link between the animal of sacrifice and this masquerade. And by the way do you bow to a sheep or cow when you meet one?

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Unless someone can show authentic historical accounts of the Prophet (S) and/or the holy saints [a] specifically bringing out such items during times of mourning, it would be classed as innovation in religion. And that is a serious crime.

Imagine congregational tarawih prayers hadn’t taken place in front of the Prophet (S) for him to pass judgement on the act. We’d be practising such a thing today too. And that’s the problem. There’s acts that we pass off as religious which haven’t had any judgement passed on them. So you have no idea if you gain His (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) pleasure in doing them.

Not to mention the ridiculous analogies being used to prove their validity. All the while analogical reasoning to deduce law has been blasted by the Prophet (S).

Better safe than sorry; Do only what’s been prescribed and avoid invention.

Edited by Jaane Ya Ali
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Ask yourself

What am I doing

Why am I doing it

And what is the perceived outcome.

If it's a mubha act it neither praiseworthy or objectionable so why do it unless it has a function.

If it's anything other than mubha then you need a clear ayat or hadith to support it.

If you are treating as part of your religious rituals and have no proof then it's wrong.

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40 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Perhaps you would have same thoughts if you would have been asked to prostrate or bow down before Adam.

Enjoy yourself 

Allah commanded the angels to do so. Where did he say to bow to a horse? lol I can’t believe I’m having to argue why animal worship is not allowed.

Edited by 786:)
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2 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

Perhaps you would have same thoughts if you would have been asked to prostrate or bow down before Adam.

Enjoy yourself 

What am I even supposed to answer. 

Please enlighten me with litterature explaining merits of bowing down to animals, maybe some scholars will be better than you at it.

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Jaane Ya Ali said:

Unless someone can show authentic historical accounts of the Prophet (S) and/or the holy saints [a] specifically bringing out such items during times of mourning, it would be classed as innovation in religion. And that is a serious crime.

Imagine congregational tarawih prayers hadn’t taken place in front of the Prophet (S) for him to pass judgement on the act. We’d be practising such a thing today too. And that’s the problem. There’s acts that we pass off as religious which haven’t had any judgement passed on them. So you have no idea if you gain His (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) pleasure in doing them.

Not to mention the ridiculous analogies being used to prove their validity. All the while analogical reasoning to deduce law has been blasted by the Prophet (S).

Better safe than sorry; Do only what’s been prescribed and avoid invention.

Ok buddy 

Just go ahead and ignore Karbala 

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6 hours ago, realizm said:

Please enlighten me with litterature explaining merits of bowing down to animals, maybe some scholars will be better than you at it.

Your failure of understanding the "nisbat", portraying as people have started worshiping animals or they have started to give respect to all animals like they give to zuljanah. 

I will call it yours & @786:)'s "shirk mania".

By the way, the heart of a true mowahhid bows down whenever he see's birds & their flight:

Surah Al-Mulk, Verse 19:

أَوَلَمْ يَرَوْا إِلَى الطَّيْرِ فَوْقَهُمْ صَافَّاتٍ وَيَقْبِضْنَ مَا يُمْسِكُهُنَّ إِلَّا الرَّحْمَٰنُ إِنَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ بَصِيرٌ

Have they not seen the birds above them expanding (their wings) and contracting (them)? What is it that withholds them save the Beneficent Allah? Surely He sees everything. (English - Shakir)

And the heart of true muwahhid bows down when he see animals and their walk:

Surah An-Noor, Verse 45:

وَاللَّهُ خَلَقَ كُلَّ دَابَّةٍ مِّن مَّاءٍ فَمِنْهُم مَّن يَمْشِي عَلَىٰ بَطْنِهِ وَمِنْهُم مَّن يَمْشِي عَلَىٰ رِجْلَيْنِ وَمِنْهُم مَّن يَمْشِي عَلَىٰ أَرْبَعٍ يَخْلُقُ اللَّهُ مَا يَشَاءُ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

And Allah has created from water every living creature: so of them is that which walks upon its belly, and of them is that which walks upon two feet, and of them is that which walks upon four; Allah creates what He pleases; surely Allah has power over all things. (English - Shakir)

What a mowahhid's heart sees is beyond your comprehension so keep you blame game and live with your shirk mania.

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1 hour ago, Ralvi said:

brother you know I’m referring to Alam 

Okay. Karbala allows for bowing down to alams? Having alam for remembrance and symbolism is one thing. Then when we start bowing down to it and touch it for blessings this becomes idolatry. How will the alam benefit you when it was made by Rajesh Kumar Fabrics (example)?

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42 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Okay. Karbala allows for bowing down to alams? Having alam for remembrance and symbolism is one thing. Then when we start bowing down to it and touch it for blessings this becomes idolatry. How will the alam benefit you when it was made by Rajesh Kumar Fabrics (example)?

Sure project your erroneous  conclusiosn onto the alam

It’s enough to say not everyone will be able to accept our last Imam

even so called ‘Shia’

 a Christian and a  Hindu would faster see him and probably die for him than ‘Shia’ like you

Your provocations don’t faze me 

Edited by Ralvi
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13 hours ago, Jaane Ya Ali said:

it would be classed as innovation in religion. And that is a serious crime.

Imagine congregational tarawih prayers hadn’t taken place in front of the Prophet (S) for him to pass judgement on the act. We’d be practising such a thing today too.

Salam bringing such stuff is not innovation in religion you are free to use these stuff or not & using them don't make distortion in our principles but Tarawih prayes is a direct attack to Namaz(Salat) as pillar of religion & about it documented in Sunni sources that was an innovation by second caliph that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) prohibited it after him but people except few ones rest of people didn't obey him but he & rest of Shia Imams remaind firm againt it so everybody that prays Tarawih is doing innovation & every Muslim knows that destiny of every innovator & his/her followers is hell fire.

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2 hours ago, 786:) said:

Then when we start bowing down to it and touch it for blessings this becomes idolatry.

And he raised his parents upon the throne, and they bowed to him in prostration. (Surah 12, Yusuf verse 100).

Your "shirk mania" is just reminding us the Iblis. 

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41 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam bringing such stuff is not innovation in religion you are free to use these stuff or not & using them don't make distortion in our principles but Tarawih prayes is a direct attack to Namaz(Salat) as pillar of religion & about it documented in Sunni sources that was an innovation by second caliph that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) prohibited it after him but people except few ones rest of people didn't obey him but he & rest of Shia Imams remaind firm againt it so everybody that prays Tarawih is doing innovation & every Muslim knows that destiny of every innovator & his/her followers is hell fire.

:salam:

Sorry but aren't bowing and prostrating to various things or beings a distortion to namaz itself ?

4 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

Your failure of understanding the "nisbat", portraying as people have started worshiping animals or they have started to give respect to all animals like they give to zuljanah. 

I will call it yours & @786:)'s "shirk mania".

By the way, the heart of a true mowahhid bows down whenever he see's birds & their flight:

Surah Al-Mulk, Verse 19:

أَوَلَمْ يَرَوْا إِلَى الطَّيْرِ فَوْقَهُمْ صَافَّاتٍ وَيَقْبِضْنَ مَا يُمْسِكُهُنَّ إِلَّا الرَّحْمَٰنُ إِنَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ بَصِيرٌ

Have they not seen the birds above them expanding (their wings) and contracting (them)? What is it that withholds them save the Beneficent Allah? Surely He sees everything. (English - Shakir)

And the heart of true muwahhid bows down when he see animals and their walk:

Surah An-Noor, Verse 45:

وَاللَّهُ خَلَقَ كُلَّ دَابَّةٍ مِّن مَّاءٍ فَمِنْهُم مَّن يَمْشِي عَلَىٰ بَطْنِهِ وَمِنْهُم مَّن يَمْشِي عَلَىٰ رِجْلَيْنِ وَمِنْهُم مَّن يَمْشِي عَلَىٰ أَرْبَعٍ يَخْلُقُ اللَّهُ مَا يَشَاءُ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

And Allah has created from water every living creature: so of them is that which walks upon its belly, and of them is that which walks upon two feet, and of them is that which walks upon four; Allah creates what He pleases; surely Allah has power over all things. (English - Shakir)

What a mowahhid's heart sees is beyond your comprehension so keep you blame game and live with your shirk mania.

Brother, you should write your own tafsir.

You calling me shirk mania, while I did not refer to shirk, rather to ridiculous superstitions, what about me quoting verses to prove how wrong such practices are ?

وَأَنَّ الْمَسَاجِدَ لِلَّـهِ فَلَا تَدْعُوا مَعَ اللَّـهِ أَحَدًا

Meaning any act of prostration made to other than Allah equals to associating Him partners ?

I think I have Qur'an mania doctor. 

Yes, you quote Qur'an too, but the verses you quote are completely ambiguous, it seems you did not read what Allah says about people who use them at their convenience.

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1 minute ago, realizm said:

:salam:

Sorry but aren't bowing and prostrating to various things or beings a distortion to namaz itself ?

Brother, you should write your own tafsir.

You calling me shirk mania, while I did not refer to shirk, rather to ridiculous superstitions, what about me quoting verses to prove how wrong such practices are ?

وَأَنَّ الْمَسَاجِدَ لِلَّـهِ فَلَا تَدْعُوا مَعَ اللَّـهِ أَحَدًا

Meaning any act of prostration made to other than Allah equals to associating Him partners ?

I think I have Qur'an mania doctor. 

Yes, you quote Qur'an too, but the verses you quote are completely ambiguous, it seems you did not read what Allah says about people who use them at their convenience.

:bismillah:

وَرَفَعَ أَبَوَيْهِ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ وَخَرُّوا لَهُ سُجَّدًا ۖ وَقَالَ يَا أَبَتِ هَٰذَا تَأْوِيلُ رُؤْيَايَ مِنْ قَبْلُ قَدْ جَعَلَهَا رَبِّي حَقًّا ۖ وَقَدْ أَحْسَنَ بِي إِذْ أَخْرَجَنِي مِنَ السِّجْنِ وَجَاءَ بِكُمْ مِنَ الْبَدْوِ مِنْ بَعْدِ أَنْ نَزَغَ الشَّيْطَانُ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَ إِخْوَتِي ۚ إِنَّ رَبِّي لَطِيفٌ لِمَا يَشَاءُ ۚ إِنَّهُ هُوَ الْعَلِيمُ الْحَكِيمُ 
12:100

[Shakir 12:100] And he raised his parents upon the throne and they fell down in prostration before him, and he said: O my father! this is the significance of my vision of old; my Lord has indeed made it to be true; and He was indeed kind to me when He brought me forth from the prison and brought you from the desert after the Shaitan had sown dissensions between me and my brothers, surely my Lord is benignant to whom He pleases; surely He is the Knowing, the Wise.
[Pickthal 12:100] And he placed his parents on the dais and they fell down before him prostrate, and he said: O my father! This is the interpretation of my dream of old. My Lord hath made it true, and He hath shown me kindness, since He took me out of the prison and hath brought you from the desert after Satan had made strife between me and my brethren. Lo! my Lord is tender unto whom He will. He is the Knower, the Wise.
[Yusufali 12:100] And he raised his parents high on the throne (of dignity), and they fell down in prostration, (all) before him. He said: "O my father! this is the fulfilment of my vision of old! Allah hath made it come true! He was indeed good to me when He took me out of prison and brought you (all here) out of the desert, (even) after Satan had sown enmity between me and my brothers. Verily my Lord understandeth best the mysteries of all that He planneth to do, for verily He is full of knowledge and wisdom.

One Prophet is prostrating before another Prophet: neither is the prostrating Prophet hesitant nor is the Prophet who is prostrated to objecting. Further, Allah does not say that this is disliked by Him. 
I once again request you brother, please try to get rid of your shirk mania.

 


 

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4 minutes ago, realizm said:

Sorry but aren't bowing and prostrating to various things or beings a distortion to namaz itself ?

if someone do it with intention of Namaz & praying to these stuff it's shirk & disbelief that is not acceptable from any Shia that we talked about here in below thread

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235056274-can’t-shake-the-paganistic-ritesritualstradition/

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5 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

:bismillah:

وَرَفَعَ أَبَوَيْهِ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ وَخَرُّوا لَهُ سُجَّدًا ۖ وَقَالَ يَا أَبَتِ هَٰذَا تَأْوِيلُ رُؤْيَايَ مِنْ قَبْلُ قَدْ جَعَلَهَا رَبِّي حَقًّا ۖ وَقَدْ أَحْسَنَ بِي إِذْ أَخْرَجَنِي مِنَ السِّجْنِ وَجَاءَ بِكُمْ مِنَ الْبَدْوِ مِنْ بَعْدِ أَنْ نَزَغَ الشَّيْطَانُ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَ إِخْوَتِي ۚ إِنَّ رَبِّي لَطِيفٌ لِمَا يَشَاءُ ۚ إِنَّهُ هُوَ الْعَلِيمُ الْحَكِيمُ 
12:100

[Shakir 12:100] And he raised his parents upon the throne and they fell down in prostration before him, and he said: O my father! this is the significance of my vision of old; my Lord has indeed made it to be true; and He was indeed kind to me when He brought me forth from the prison and brought you from the desert after the Shaitan had sown dissensions between me and my brothers, surely my Lord is benignant to whom He pleases; surely He is the Knowing, the Wise.
[Pickthal 12:100] And he placed his parents on the dais and they fell down before him prostrate, and he said: O my father! This is the interpretation of my dream of old. My Lord hath made it true, and He hath shown me kindness, since He took me out of the prison and hath brought you from the desert after Satan had made strife between me and my brethren. Lo! my Lord is tender unto whom He will. He is the Knower, the Wise.
[Yusufali 12:100] And he raised his parents high on the throne (of dignity), and they fell down in prostration, (all) before him. He said: "O my father! this is the fulfilment of my vision of old! Allah hath made it come true! He was indeed good to me when He took me out of prison and brought you (all here) out of the desert, (even) after Satan had sown enmity between me and my brothers. Verily my Lord understandeth best the mysteries of all that He planneth to do, for verily He is full of knowledge and wisdom.

One Prophet is prostrating before another Prophet: neither is the prostrating Prophet hesitant nor is the Prophet who is prostrated to objecting. Further, Allah does not say that this is disliked by Him. 
I once again request you brother, please try to get rid of your shirk mania.

 


 

Let us wish good luck to Imam Mahdi (aj).

Let me put it in simple words : Allah or a Prophet says so = you do it.

Random laymen start doing condemnable practices and systematize it as religious adoration = you abstain from doing it.

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