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#58 Speaking the Truth vs Good Manners?

Poll #58  

74 members have voted

  1. 1. Which is your line of thought?

    • It's important to speak "truth" no matter the context or sensitivities involved, as speaking "truth" urgently and directly is best.
      30
    • Maintaining harmony, good manners, and peace is more important, as the "truth" will reveal itself in more indirect means at a later time
      43


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1 hour ago, Ralvi said:

Could you explain more the latter half you’re saying? Thanks!

If for example your sitting with a Muslim and he starts to do gheeba, your are obligated under the wajib duty of amr bil maroof wa nahi anil munkar to ask him to either stop doing gheeba or to remove yourself if he does not stop. This is regardless of if he will be happy or sad about you saying that. This is the truth of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) given through the holy Qur'an.

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It’s one think to speak the truth, but another thing to be a complete jerk. Speaking the truth doesn’t mean hurting people’s feelings and doesn’t give anyone the justification to be rude. 

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38 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

If for example your sitting with a Muslim and he starts to do gheeba, your are obligated under the wajib duty of amr bil maroof wa nahi anil munkar to ask him to either stop doing gheeba or to remove yourself if he does not stop. This is regardless of if he will be happy or sad about you saying that. This is the truth of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) given through the holy Qur'an.

This is something entirely different than what the original poll was. In the example you provided, yes, you must speak the truth, but if you do it rudely, even if you’re enjoining good and forbidding evil, no one will listen to you.  

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Sure, we're obligated to enjoin good and forbid evil, but how far does that obligation go? For example, if your grandfather makes a racist or sexist comment, are you obligated to correct him, or must you "respect your elders"? Or does the correct action depend on the specific circumstances? 

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1 hour ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

This is something entirely different than what the original poll was. In the example you provided, yes, you must speak the truth, but if you do it rudely, even if you’re enjoining good and forbidding evil, no one will listen to you.  

Sometimes it is not necessarily about if the person listens to you or not, rather it is about you doing right by yourself.

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2 hours ago, IbnSina said:

If for example your sitting with a Muslim and he starts to do gheeba, your are obligated under the wajib duty of amr bil maroof wa nahi anil munkar to ask him to either stop doing gheeba or to remove yourself if he does not stop. This is regardless of if he will be happy or sad about you saying that. This is the truth of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) given through the holy Qur'an.

Yeah I agree, Iam talking about other situations.

like if your praying alongside Sunnis, I can’t really come up to them say that the truth is praying with your hands by your side and your kalma is not the truth. It would only cause infighting honestly

So time and place 

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2 hours ago, notme said:

Sure, we're obligated to enjoin good and forbid evil, but how far does that obligation go? For example, if your grandfather makes a racist or sexist comment, are you obligated to correct him, or must you "respect your elders"? Or does the correct action depend on the specific circumstances? 

We can approach gently I would say 

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Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum.

Now I understand the threads like GHB and John McCain why members answered the way they did.

But they never went back and spoke against the individual.

So this part of the statement is totally lost. 

as the "truth" will reveal itself in more indirect means at a later time

You cannot guarantee yourself that there is a later.

You have the opportunity to speak the truth during the time frame.  Once that time frame elapses, the event is forgotten about.

Time is essential.

Brother @IbnSina you know why they put truth in quotations?  It's because what we see as truth, others won't consider it truth as well.  For example, you and I believe in Rasoul Allah as the last messenger of Allah, ask a devout Christian they don't see it as truth.

It's also like the saying, one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.  Different people see different truths.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah
Edited by Laayla

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Guest Umm Amira

Speaking the truth in a sincere, non-hurtful way with evidence and kindness.

I know that's not an option on the poll but that is the best method. 

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Salaams, 

While reading this thread, I just to quickly ask, does anyone know if there are any Shia sources for a Hadith from the Holy Prophet (p) where he states: “kindness is a mark of faith and whoever is not kind has no faith”. 

I only seem to come accross Sunni sources. If someone  could let me know that would be great. 

Many thanks in advance,

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5 hours ago, Mohammed-Mehdi said:

I don't agree with the options.

 

For example the first option" no matter the context " , this would never be a option because context is always important.

Poll choices aren't meant to be complete reflections of reality. They require some suspension of belief and have to be taken at face value. If that's unacceptable to some, then don't vote.

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Anyone who doesn't want to vote in a poll can always reply to say why. 

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48 minutes ago, Hameedeh said:

Anyone who doesn't want to vote in a poll can always reply to say why. 

We are on a discussion forum, after all. 

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Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum.

Brother Soroush,

Taqiyah is done when your life is in danger or fear of something awful will happen to you because of your love for Amir al Mo2mineen.  

Lying is permissible in Islam in certain circumstances.

 

It is worth mentioning that sometimes telling a lie is permissible and even necessary. The late Allamah Majlisi has written: “Some scholars have said: telling lies is not forbidden by itself, rather it is forbidden because it entails losses. Hence, if it entails no loss, or if it entails benefits for human beings, it is not only not unlawful, but recommended and sometimes obligatory. Examples on this are that when you make peace between two persons. When you play a trick on the enemy in Jihad … and when you ward off a loss from yourself or another Muslim whether it is a life loss or something financial or related to the honor of some one. Moralists have considered all these cases as exceptions.

https://www.al-Islam.org/taqwa-piety-advice-ahl-al-bayt-sayyed-hussain-tooyserkani/33-telling-lies

 

Otherwise Rasoul Allah and Ahlul Bayt say always tell the truth, otherwise you are not from us.

 

Telling Lies

'Anas-ibn-Mlaik narrates from the Messenger of Allah (S) who said: "Accept six things from me, then I will accept (and guarantee) the entrance of Heaven for you:

1. When you speak, tell no lies.

2. When you promise, do not break it.

3. When you are trusted (by others), be honest.

4. Lower your eyes (from committing sin).

5. Guard your modesty.

6. Hold your hands and tongues."

Khisal al-Saduq, p. 321

Imam Abi-Muhammad-al-al-’Askari, the eleventh Imam, (‘a) said: "Wickedness was put inside a house, and the key (of its door) was rendered to be lies."

Bihar-ul-Anwar, vol. 72, p. 263

Imam Sajjad (‘a) said: "Avoid telling lies irrespective of small or great, whether it is in earnest or joking, because when a person tells a lie in small (things), he dares to tell a lie in great things, too."

Tuhaful-Uqul, p. 201

Once Imam Amir-ul-Mu'mineen ‘Ali (‘a) was asked about the distance between the truth and untruth and, while he (‘a) was showing the distance between his eye and ear with his four fingers in order to illustrate this distance as his answer, he said: "What your eyes see is 'truth' and what your ears hear is for the most part 'untruth'."

Bihar-ul-Anwar, vol. 75, p. 196

Imam al-Baqir (‘a) said: "Verily, Allah, the exalted, has put some locks on vices, the key of which He has put in wine, but the vice of lying is worse than wine."

Al-Kafi, vol. 2, p. 339

Imam Ridha’ (‘a) said: "Be truthful and avoid telling lies."

Bihar-ul-Anwar, vol. 78, p. 347

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On 2/21/2019 at 12:17 PM, Reza said:

Poll choices aren't meant to be complete reflections of reality. They require some suspension of belief and have to be taken at face value. If that's unacceptable to some, then don't vote.

So it is ok to have mistakes in a suggestion/answer?

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