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thuglife

Do you feel bad about idol worshipers going to hell?

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I saw this Indian family today. Two parents, two kids. I felt kinda bad that they are the ones who worship statues. They look like nice people. I felt bad that they're going to burn in hell. Especially the ones who don't eat meat due to ethics.

I also see Vietnamese and others from the Orient. I feel bad that they don't even have a religion because of communist governments they were under.

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we can't judge them that they will go to hell or not ,it's clear that they are in ignorance because of their culture for Indians & their government for Vietnamese that even they hear about any religion it's very hard for them to leave their current faith that they get used to it from birth  , I think the best way is to introduce them the right path with kindness but accepting it by them needs great patience from both sides but even after they find out after this process that Islam is right but they refuse to accept it because of their hatred they can be in hell not now that they are in ignorance.

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3 hours ago, shia_100 said:

Why would they go to hell if they’ve never heard about Islam or misunderstood Islam?

Dear shia_100

It is obligatory on person when he/she becomes baligh to search for the right religion and path for his journey, before attending the age of Bulugh its responsibility of parents.The person has to search for the correct path because Allah gave him Mind, decision to make etc. At the end person cannot say that I didn't have enough ways to search for correct path or no one guided me what is right or wrong.

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I think Indians know about Islam. I mean, that whole partition thing. Did happen.

I saw this Vietnamese guy returning an item to a store. Apparently, he bought one a while ago, and returned it under the warranty for a new one. The new one would not have the warranty, and he was trying to return the new one, which broke down. He thought the warranty applied to the new one, too. So, in his mind, he can just perpetually bring in and exchange the product for a new one because the warranty starts fresh with each exchange. Later on, they found out the product was going bad because of bad electric lines at his house, not because the product was defective. I felt bad for the employees trying to explain this to him. His daughter got it and tried to explain it. But he must have lived through the carpet bombings and/or after effects. I think that may have affected his logic. Imagine walking outside and everyone in the country is like this guy.

It's kinda hard to convince such a person about anything, let alone why we are here.

I feel bad for the North Koreans. Such a desperate situation. The defectors might as well be from another realm. No religion, other than dear leader being God.

There are also the uncontacted tribes. One of them haven't even discovered the fire yet. The one that killed that Christian missionary, I believe.

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On 1/22/2019 at 9:30 PM, MohdAkhtar said:

Dear shia_100

It is obligatory on person when he/she becomes baligh to search for the right religion and path for his journey, before attending the age of Bulugh its responsibility of parents.The person has to search for the correct path because Allah gave him Mind, decision to make etc. At the end person cannot say that I didn't have enough ways to search for correct path or no one guided me what is right or wrong.

Ye how is a non Muslim supposed to know that it’s their duty to search for the right religion, even more these days where we have so many distractions 

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On 1/22/2019 at 1:23 AM, shia_100 said:

Why would they go to hell if they’ve never heard about Islam or missunderstood Islam?

There is a fine line between "never heard about" or "misunderstood"

People who never heard about it may have some leniency but the people who have misunderstanding must clear them and choose the right path!!

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On 1/22/2019 at 1:20 AM, thuglife said:

I saw this Indian family today. Two parents, two kids. I felt kinda bad that they are the ones who worship statues. They look like nice people. I felt bad that they're going to burn in hell. Especially the ones who don't eat meat due to ethics.

I also see Vietnamese and others from the Orient. I feel bad that they don't even have a religion because of communist governments they were under.

Look we don’t know who will go to hell or heaven..... its Allah and His apostles matter.What if they were not even informed of Islam? No one knows at what time and to whom Allah may give Hidayat. And there is an other side of this question as well that people like mother teressa will enter heaven? again we don’t know that if she does shirk or not or if she has any knowledge of Islam or not?Even though she served humanity and there are some Muslims who spread violence and chaos in name of Islam. I feel bad for everyone especially those Muslims. Alhamdulillah we are born Shia Muslims and it is a great blessing upon us.

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3 hours ago, Abbas. said:

How much time have you and I spent exploring other religions or even Atheism for that matter to ensure that Islam is the right path? If we have failed this standard, we better not expect it from others. In fact, we cannot expect this standard from the majority of laymen considering the realities of life and especially in the absence of a Divine Authority of God (Prophet/Messenger/Imam etc.).

Hazrat Moosa (عليه السلام) didn't explore other religions, he saw the sunset and said "God can't set", saw the moon and said " God can't hide", saw the stars, fire etc and made his argument!! It isn't about go through other religions its about how much factual and reasonable ours is... We can look into other's if we see a loophole in ours!!

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Hidayat (light of understanding) can come in many ways.

Verse 29:69

And those who strive for Us - We will surely guide them to Our ways. And indeed, Allah is with the doers of good.

To those who has intention to find HIM or to be in HIS path, and show struggle,  Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is there to guide.

The end results of those whom Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) guide...will do good deeds.

And Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is with those who are muhsinin.

if we are Muslim and we don't end up to show struggle to be with HIM ( (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)), what is the use.

And if we have non Muslim and they did good deeds... let Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) judge them. 

Islam is a short cut to reach Him.  Non Muslims might not see it yet and they died.  And they did good deeds.  Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is True Judge.

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On 1/22/2019 at 1:20 AM, thuglife said:

I saw this Indian family today. Two parents, two kids. I felt kinda bad that they are the ones who worship statues. They look like nice people. I felt bad that they're going to burn in hell. Especially the ones who don't eat meat due to ethics.

I also see Vietnamese and others from the Orient. I feel bad that they don't even have a religion because of communist governments they were under.

What made you sure you will be in heaven while they burn in hell? :birthday:

10 hours ago, Fakeha said:

There is a fine line between "never heard about" or "misunderstood"

People who never heard about it may have some leniency but the people who have misunderstanding must clear them and choose the right path!!

And what if they know about Islam but didn't get to understand it. Then what? Do you think people will magically believe in our religion because...........? We are born Muslim thats easy to say. And just like we have people converting to Islam, there are Muslims who convert to other religions. So please don't give examples that many people convert to Islam.

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5 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

I feel bad they chose the wrong path but I don't feel bad for their fate because too bad. That's justice.

What happened to

“A person is either your brother in faith, or your equal in humanity.” -Imam Ali

or we suddenly feel superior over others now?

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1 hour ago, BowTie said:

What happened to

“A person is either your brother in faith, or your equal in humanity.” -Imam Ali

or we suddenly feel superior over others now?

How is him going to Hell make him any less human than me? He is still a human, he just ended up in Hell and was served justice. 

And yes, certain humans are superior to other humans. A mu'min is not the same as an axe murderer or a serial killer. lol

Here's a reliable, perhaps mutawatir, hadith on classes among humans;

Ibrahim b. Hashim (reliable) narrated to us from Yahya b. Abi `Imran (good in narration) from Yunus (reliable) from Jamil (reliable).  He said: I heard Abu `Abdillah عليه السلامsaying:

Mankind becomes three types: an `alim, a learner, and scum.  So we are the `ulama’, our Shi`a are the learners, and the rest of mankind are scum.

http://www.imamiyya.com/hadith/sahih-basair

Maybe you misunderstood me :grin:

Edited by Sumerian

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6 hours ago, Sumerian said:

How is him going to Hell make him any less human than me? He is still a human, he just ended up in Hell and was served justice. 

And yes, certain humans are superior to other humans. A mu'min is not the same as an axe murderer or a serial killer. lol

Here's a reliable, perhaps mutawatir, hadith on classes among humans;

Ibrahim b. Hashim (reliable) narrated to us from Yahya b. Abi `Imran (good in narration) from Yunus (reliable) from Jamil (reliable).  He said: I heard Abu `Abdillah عليه السلامsaying:

Mankind becomes three types: an `alim, a learner, and scum.  So we are the `ulama’, our Shi`a are the learners, and the rest of mankind are scum.

http://www.imamiyya.com/hadith/sahih-basair

Maybe you misunderstood me :grin:

You can throw this Hadith in the garbage because what kind of religion do you follow that calls other people scum. If you actually believe this is our school of thought, then you follow this religion out of emotion, not brain.

 

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1 hour ago, BowTie said:

You can throw this Hadith in the garbage because what kind of religion do you follow that calls other people scum. If you actually believe this is our school of thought, then you follow this religion out of emotion, not brain.

 

Lol. Whether you accept this hadith or not, the fact of the matter is people who end up in Heaven on Judgement Day are superior to those who end up in Hell. It isn't rocket science.

Then is one who was a believer like one who was defiantly disobedient? They are not equal. [32:18]

Again, may be you understood me?:dry:

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7 hours ago, Sumerian said:

How is him going to Hell make him any less human than me? He is still a human, he just ended up in Hell and was served justice. 

And yes, certain humans are superior to other humans. A mu'min is not the same as an axe murderer or a serial killer. lol

Here's a reliable, perhaps mutawatir, hadith on classes among humans;

Ibrahim b. Hashim (reliable) narrated to us from Yahya b. Abi `Imran (good in narration) from Yunus (reliable) from Jamil (reliable).  He said: I heard Abu `Abdillah عليه السلامsaying:

Mankind becomes three types: an `alim, a learner, and scum.  So we are the `ulama’, our Shi`a are the learners, and the rest of mankind are scum.

http://www.imamiyya.com/hadith/sahih-basair

Maybe you misunderstood me :grin:

They are not different versions of this narration saying that those who search the truth even without being Shias could be classified as learners? 

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43 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Lol. Whether you accept this hadith or not, the fact of the matter is people who end up in Heaven on Judgement Day are superior to those who end up in Hell. It isn't rocket science.

Then is one who was a believer like one who was defiantly disobedient? They are not equal. [32:18]

Again, may be you understood me?:dry:

Seems like the men with low confidence and weak personalities are now turning to Islam to feel superior within the faith.

:bye:

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2 hours ago, Sumerian said:

Lol it is obvious those with shaky faith have an inferiority complex towards others :NH:

I understand where your mentality is coming from. Its a cultural thing I guess. Let me take a guess, you’re Iraqi? :party:

45 minutes ago, alidu78 said:

What is "shaky faith"? 

Translating Arabic to English. 

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@BowTie 

I think you have misunderstood Sumerian. 

We aren't ever allowed to think we are superior to other people, because people can turn towards faith anytime. It is not for us to read the content of people's hearts. The thing is that only Allah knows who has true iman. Therefore it is arrogant of us to ever make such a claim that we are superior to someone else.

However we can say that person A is superior to person B, if according to Allah, person A has belief.

"A mu'min is not the same as a kafir". This is a fact.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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13 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

@BowTie 

I think you have misunderstood Sumerian. 

We aren't ever allowed to think we are superior to other people, because people can turn towards faith anytime. It is not for us to read the content of people's hearts. The thing is that only Allah knows who has true iman. Therefore it is arrogant of us to ever make such a claim that we are superior to someone else.

However we can say that person A is superior to person B, if according to Allah, person A has belief.

"A mu'min is not the same as a kafir". This is a fact.

Exactly, I'm speaking about a lost case. Meaning after Judgement has been given on Judgement Day. Lol.

20 minutes ago, BowTie said:

I understand where your mentality is coming from. Its a cultural thing I guess. Let me take a guess, you’re Iraqi? :party:

Translating Arabic to English. 

Not really, it's an Islamic thing backed by texts. People are superior to others based on faith and deeds. Not hard to fathom. Lol. Are you superior to a convicted [insert huge crime]? I hope so lol.

Lol and at least I have a culture. I don’t belong to just a tiny piece of land that's actually part of another country :grin:

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33 minutes ago, BowTie said:

I understand where your mentality is coming from. Its a cultural thing I guess. Let me take a guess, you’re IraqI?

That's awful seeing someone judge other based on their nationality. 

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53 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

That's awful seeing someone judge other based on their nationality. 

I know its terrible right. But its weird when you can guess someones nationality by their replies. :book:

1 hour ago, Sumerian said:

Lol and at least I have a culture. I don’t belong to just a tiny piece of land that's actually part of another country :grin:

You know since you are a hardcore blind Iraqi Shia you are making yourself look worse. 

See as a person who comes from a tiny piece of land. Lebanese Shia are approx. 2/2.5 million. Of course I feel pride. Not As an identity of being Lebanese Shia, but because of what Lebanese Shia contributed to from knowledge, education, and most important rise up like their Imam al Hussayn against oppression, give blood for freedom of Lebanese and gave blood for countries like Palestine, Syria, Bosnia, your country even; Iraq.

You as an Iraqi Shia that are approx 15 million and have a huge land. What did you contribute to in this Ummah besides beating your head, crying, walking thousands of miles and victimizing yourselves till this day because you once accepted oppression by Saddam Hussein?

Save it brother.

1 hour ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

"A mu'min is not the same as a kafir". This is a fact.

And who chooses who is Mu’min, Munafiq or Kafir? ShiaChat members or Allah?

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Salam I want to quote this from Brother Qa’im:

Quote

A companion asked the Messenger of Allah (s), "Inform me, will Allah punish a person without a proof?"

The Messenger replied, "God forbid."

The companion asked, "So are the children of the polytheists in Paradise or in the Fire?"

 The Messenger said, "Allah has more of a right over them.

 When Allah gathers the creatures on the Day of Resurrection to cast judgment, He will begin with the children of the polytheists.

He will say to them, 'My male and female servants, who is your Lord, what is your religion, and what are your deeds?'

So they will say, 'O Allah, You are our Lord, You created us, and we created nothing. You caused us to die, and we caused nothing to die. You did not give us a speaking tongue, nor a discerning ear, nor a book that we could read, nor a messenger that we could follow. We do not have knowledge, for You have not taught us.'

So He will say to them, 'My male and female servants, if I were to command you to do something, would you do it?'

So they will say, 'We hear and obey You, O our Lord.'

So Allah will bring a fire called al-Falaq, which is the most severe punishment in Hell, and burns dark black with chains and shackles. Then Allah will order it to blow into the faces of the creatures. The severity of its blow will sever the heavens, obliterate the stars, freeze the seas, shake the mountains, grieve the sight [of the creation], cause the pregnant to miscarry, and cause the children to grey due to its horror on the Day of Resurrection.

Then, Allah will order the children of the polytheists to throw themselves into that Fire. So those whom Allah knows would be good will throw themselves into it, and it will be cool and peaceful for them, just as it was for Abraham [a]. And those whom Allah knows would be wretched will not throw themselves into the fire, so Allah will order the fire to overtake them for abandoning His order, and they will follow their forefathers into Hell."

في كتاب التوحيد باسناده إلى عبد الله بن سلام مولى رسول الله صلى عليه وآله قال: سألت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله فقلت: اخبرني أيعذب الله عز وجل خلقا بلا حجة؟فقال: معاذ الله، قلت: فأولاد المشركين في الجنة أم في النار؟فقال: الله تبارك و تعالى أولى بهم، انه إذا كان يوم القيامة وجمع الله عز وجل الخلائق لفصل القضاء يأتي بأولاد المشركين فيقول لهم عبيدي وإمائي من ربكم وما دينكم وما أعمالكم؟قال: فيقولون: اللهم ربنا أنت خلقتنا ولم نخلق شيئا، وأنت أمتنا ولم نمت شيئا، ولم تجعل لنا ألسنة ننطق بها ولا اسماعا نسمع ولا كتابا نقرؤه ولا رسولا فنتبعه، و لا علم لنا الا ما علمتنا، قال: فيقول لهم عز وجل: عبيدي وإمائي ان أمرتكم بأمر أتفعلونه؟فيقولون: السمع والطاعة لك يا ربنا، قال: فيأمر الله عز وجل نارا يقال لها الفلق أشد شئ في جهنم عذابا فتخرج من مكانها سوداء مظلمة بالسلاسل والأغلال، فيأمرها الله عز وجل ان تنفخ في وجوه الخلائق نفخة فتنفخ، فمن شدة نفختها تنقطع السماء وتنطمس النجوم وتجمد البحار وتزول الجبال وتظلم الابصار وتضع الحوامل حملها، وتشيب الولدان من هولها يوم القيامة ثم يأمر الله تبارك وتعالى أطفال المشركين أن يلقوا أنفسهم في تلك النار، فمن سبق له في علم الله عزوجل أن يكون سعيدا ألقى نفسه فيها فكانت عليه بردا وسلاما كما كانت على إبراهيم عليه السلام، ومن سبق له في علم الله عزوجل أن يكون شقيا امتنع فلم يلق نفسه في النار، فيأمر الله تبارك و تعالى النار فتلقطه لتركه أمر الله وامتناعه من الدخول فيها فيكون تبعا لآبائه في جهنم

Also please check this link out for non Muslims and hellfire according to Shia position:

https://www.al-Islam.org/faith-and-reason-ayatullah-Mahdi-hadavi-tehrani/question-13-non-Muslims-and-hell

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I don't spend time thinking about it. It's pretty irrational thinking in my opinion. You were fortunate to be born Shia Muslim despite doing absolutely zilch to achieve this and for this reason you could potentially earn paradise.

Someone else who may not be as fortunate again for no fault of his own may be born Hindu and live his life the same way you live yours, him believing his faith is right just as you believe yours is. One of you gets put in hell and one of you may get sent to heaven. You might claim they could've done their research but it's easy for you to say that, while excluding the fact that they think exactly the same about you.

Most people are often trapped in whatever ideology they were born and raised with and don't really question it and even if they do, it's unlikely their research will be a straighforward path that will lead them to Islam. Again if you believe that is the case, it's purely because you're too attached to your ideology to think someone else could reach different conclusions.There is no rational mind that can accept this, it's purely ideological and dare may I say it, arrogant and entitled.

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20 hours ago, BowTie said:

 

And what if they know about Islam but didn't get to understand it. Then what? Do you think people will magically believe in our religion because...........? We are born Muslim thats easy to say. And just like we have people converting to Islam, there are Muslims who convert to other religions. So please don't give examples that many people convert to Islam.

Ok.. You born in your family but is there something, anything with in your family you tried to fix?? You feel than you keenly observed and conclude that this isn't right... Than you think another way to fix that!! That, thinking in another way isn't a magic, it's being the only creation with "intellect, knowledge and ability to decide" The Humans.

 

And sometimes Allah make a good and a bad both examples to choose!! That's why we have a free will.. 

Edited by Fakeha

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10 hours ago, BowTie said:

And who chooses who is Mu’min, Munafiq or Kafir? ShiaChat members or Allah?

This is what Dua Kumayl says:

What? Is he who has been believer like unto him who has been ungodly? They are not equal)

أَفَمَن كَانَ مُؤْمِنًا كَمَن كَانَ فَاسِقًا ۚ لَّا يَسْتَوُونَ

12 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

However we can say that person A is superior to person B, if according to Allah, person A has belief.

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