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thuglife

Do you feel bad about idol worshipers going to hell?

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2 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

This is what Dua Kumayl says:

What? Is he who has been believer like unto him who has been ungodly? They are not equal)

أَفَمَن كَانَ مُؤْمِنًا كَمَن كَانَ فَاسِقًا ۚ لَّا يَسْتَوُونَ

Salam...

For those who are already declared themselves as Muslim,, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has set different categories that Muslims can lead their life before they die. Be one of this category

Siddiq, soleh, muttaqi, mukmin, fasiq, kafir, munafiq, taghut.... I may missed the total list.

A Muslim can be a kafir too...if they cover the truth.  Some so- called sahabah covered the truth about the imamat of Ali (عليه السلام).  Some opposed.  Some sahabah defended Imam Hussain to the death.

But for those are yet to declared their belief in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) openly, we don’t know their status.  Let say their actions were all goods.  

Some die to fight daesh, zionist, gave their entire life feeding the poor and charity works, uplift human right and fought injustice... because they believed that this is right things to do in their society..

Can we pass judgement? 

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21 minutes ago, layman said:

Some die to fight daesh, zionist, gave their entire life feeding the poor and charity works, uplift human right and fought injustice... because they believed that this is right things to do in their society..

Can we pass judgement? 

Allah describes the mu'min in surah al mu'minoon, and says that indeed they are the successful ones. The mu'min are described to be humble while they pray etc.

Yes we can theoretically pass a judgment that true mu'mins are superior to those who aren't.

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Salaam Brothers, @ Bowtie and @ Sumerian you guys are not each others enemies. Neither is Iraq and Lebanon enemies. don’t make fun of each others different nationalities. I think based on ample evidence far too many people have suffered and died in both countries and continue to do so. I"'ve noticed a certain truth about "Bowtie", brother can be so undiplomatic in his thinking and logic that it stings, actually hurts but but but but but..... you can’t fault his pure logic and extreme rational thinking no matter how it stings. I think brother "Bowtie" has spent far too much time and energy arguing and debating with people who are so ignorant, so hateful and so irrational in their perceptions that the Brother does not possess patience anymore with stupid people.

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On 1/22/2019 at 9:20 AM, thuglife said:

I saw this Indian family today. Two parents, two kids. I felt kinda bad that they are the ones who worship statues. They look like nice people. I felt bad that they're going to burn in hell. Especially the ones who don't eat meat due to ethics.

I also see Vietnamese and others from the Orient. I feel bad that they don't even have a religion because of communist governments they were under.

"Thuglife" I assume you took your AKA from 2PAC AMARU SHAKUR. You don’t think like him at all. in fact to look at people and just assume because of their religion they are going to burn in hell is exactly what will get you a scholarship to go study for a Doctorate in a Wahhabi madrassa. You are a man in desperate need of enlightenment. 

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17 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Allah describes the mu'min in surah al mu'minoon, and says that indeed they are the successful ones. The mu'min are described to be humble while they pray etc.

Yes we can theoretically pass a judgment that true mu'mins are superior to those who aren't.

I agreed that we can  passed judgement to those who called themselves Muslim after they die (documented with proofs).  Shah of Iran, Saddam Hussain and Yazid (la) were doomed to hell...they were not mukmin...  they are all of negative categories...fasiq, kufr, munafiq, and taghut.

Among Muslims...there are mukmins and there are successful ones.

All these we agreed.

But those who did not yet openly show that they believe in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), but may believe in Supreme Being that rules the Universe, and they do good deeds and they die.  

Are we here to judge them to go to hell? It would be better to say...Wallahualam.  Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows better.

Edited by layman

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2 minutes ago, layman said:

But those who did not yet openly show that they believe in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), but may believe in Supreme Being that rules the Universe, and they do good deeds and they die.  

Brother all my point is that if 'according to Allah' someone dies with true iman, then that person is superior, nothing complicated.

Yeah we shouldn't judge people in this world especially if we don't know what is in their hearts.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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1 hour ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Brother all my point is that if 'according to Allah' someone dies of true iman, then that person is superior, nothing complicated.

Yeah we shouldn't judge people in this world especially if we don't know what is in their hearts.

Brother,

I am with you on the above statement.

My concerns are for some of us, who may have perceptions that he/ she are not Muslim and will react differently.

In my society, there are Muslims, Buddhist, Hindus, qadiani, Christians...many are humble, polite, and very responsible and objectives. They really do good deeds. I see them just as normal humans ( disregards of their belief).  With this type of approach I can easily talk to them about God and the need for Prophet.

If I already labeled them hell dweller... then I will oppose them.

If I already have perception that their parents are hell dweller, it is very difficult to get closer to them.

So I free my mind on this issue.  Let Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) decide on the fate non Muslims who do good deeds when they die.

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On 1/23/2019 at 9:49 AM, Abbas. said:

How much time have you and I spent exploring other religions or even Atheism for that matter to ensure that Islam is the right path? If we have failed this standard, we better not expect it from others. In fact, we cannot expect this standard from the majority of laymen considering the realities of life and especially in the absence of a Divine Authority of God (Prophet/Messenger/Imam etc.).

This is a point not often said.

Many born Muslims who believe that Islam is the right path mainly because it’s the religion of their forefathers somehow don’t apply this standard to others, who are expected to drop their forefathers religion, study extensive theology, and choose Islam. Something many Muslims wouldn’t fathom if the shoe were on the other foot (hypothetically).

Of course many Muslims study and validate their religion with time, but I’m not referring to that.

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6 hours ago, Gabenowa said:

has spent far too much time and energy arguing and debating with people who are so ignorant, so hateful and so irrational in their perceptions that the Brother does not possess patience anymore with stupid people.

I know how this is:/ it drains my very life force...

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Do you feel bad about idol worshippers going to hell?

Should we feel bad about anyone going to hell?

What is really meant by this:  "feel bad about" ? What does it include? What are it borders?..


Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), Knows Best and is certainly Just.

But He gave the chance for those who end up in hell to enter heaven (at some point). And Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Loves the doers of Good. So what would Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) prefer for anyone to end up? 
Maybe we should feel bad, in a certain sense, yes. Especially if you consider... Hell... 

But hey what can you do?

" There is a piece of advice in everything for the clever, " 

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On 1/25/2019 at 12:27 AM, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Allah describes the mu'min in surah al mu'minoon, and says that indeed they are the successful ones. The mu'min are described to be humble while they pray etc.

Yes we can theoretically pass a judgment that true mu'mins are superior to those who aren't.

Just want to say; there are different kinds of Muimins if I'm not mistaken.
For example one could argue: Those who believe in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) are Muimin (of a kind).

But in another context; only the true Shia of Ali (عليه السلام) up to and including Imam Mehdi (AJTF), are The Believers.

There are also different "levels" in regards to (a specific understanding of) Believers. 

 

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59 minutes ago, Mohammed-Mehdi said:

Do you feel bad about idol worshippers going to hell?

Should we feel bad about anyone going to hell?

What is really meant by this:  "feel bad about" ? What does it include? What are it borders?..


Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), Knows Best and is certainly Just.

But He gave the chance for those who end up in hell to enter heaven (at some point). And Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Loves the doers of Good. So what would Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) prefer for anyone to end up? 
Maybe we should feel bad, in a certain sense, yes. Especially if you consider... Hell... 

But hey what can you do?

" There is a piece of advice in everything for the clever, " 

I think on the day of judgement nobody will wish that anybody goes to hell after we witness what lies ahead of us all. I think people get a taste of that on Earth when they are part of a tragedy, everybody feels like a brother or sister at such moments no matter where they are from or whatever their belief, I think that's our spirit reaching out.

But then Allah (subhana wa tala) tells us nobody will care for another on the day of judgment so I'm not sure hmm. Maybe our soul reaches out on Earth as Allah (subhana wa tala) says help your brother or sister at moment of tragedy. 

Edited by Murtaza1

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1 hour ago, Murtaza1 said:

I think on the day of judgement nobody will wish that anybody goes to hell after we witness what lies ahead of us all. I think people get a taste of that on Earth when they are part of a tragedy, everybody feels like a brother or sister at such moments no matter where they are from or whatever their belief, I think that's our spirit reaching out.

But then Allah (subhana wa tala) tells us nobody will care for another on the day of judgment so I'm not sure hmm. Maybe our soul reaches out on Earth as Allah (subhana wa tala) says help your brother or sister at moment of tragedy. 

When a person from a group of people involved in tragedy, the whole group members will likely to sympathize.  They will try to help especially if the person involved in tragedy is our loved one.

However, when the whole group will involve in a tragedy, everyone will find their own way to escape.  For example, if a group of us walking in the open desert, everyone sees a massive astroid is coming down toward them.  Everyone will find their way out...especially if the condition to be safe  from the astroid will defend on individual's knowledge and skills. 

In the day of judgement, everyone will be concerned on their own accounts of doing good or bad actions that we be judged on.  Very scary, we will worry only about own self.

Except, for Prophet and Ahlulbayts.  They will be  busy giving water and syafaat to those who deserved.

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On 1/24/2019 at 6:59 PM, Mohamed1993 said:

You were fortunate to be born Shia Muslim despite doing absolutely zilch to achieve this

Hmm, I am not sure that is the case brother. As I understand there was a test before this test. Maybe someone who has studied more about the existence of our souls before dunya could clarify this.

 

 

With regards to the subject of discussion, it is my understanding that just like there are different levels of heaven so are there different levels of hell. As I understand some levels of hell is much like life on dunya is right now, hard and you get nothing without having to make some efforts, you get hungry, cold, tired, lonely, etc. 

I don’t think it would be unfair for a person who spent his life in dunya not necessarily being a bad human (respecting haqqul nas) but not reflecting and researching the point of his existence to spend the afterlife in such living conditions either.

My personal belief is that very few persons will spend eternity in the bottom levels of hell, the ones that truly deserved it, I do not have any sources for this but from my own reflections I believe that neither the levels of hell nor the levels of heaven are static for everyone. Of course I do not believe a person who gets sent to hell can make their way to heaven. 

But I believe that for example a person in the bottom level of jannah can over time make their way higher up. For example, we are given hooris, the best of food, the best of clothes, the best of gardens, etc, and while we enjoy all of this, I believe that the people in the bottom level of jannah will overtime reflect and understand that what they love is not all the good things they have been given but the source of all those good things. The One who is so good that He has the capacity to create such good things. Heaven will become closeness to Him and the created rewards will be less appealing over time.

This conclusion will eventually through worship and duas lead them higher up in heaven I believe. This is my personal belief based on my own reflections and thoughts about Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

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6 hours ago, IbnSina said:

course I do not believe a person who gets sent to hell can make their way to heaven. 

But I believe that for example a person in the bottom level of jannah can over time make their way higher up. For example, we are given hooris, 

Don't certain people enter heaven after being in hell for a very long time? 

I am fascinated by the hoori’s characters, especially by their beauty, humility and loyalty to us as you may have read in one of my discussion threads here on them 

Edited by Murtaza1

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6 hours ago, layman said:

When a person from a group of people involved in tragedy, the whole group members will likely to sympathize.  They will try to help especially if the person involved in tragedy is our loved one.

However, when the whole group will involve in a tragedy, everyone will find their own way to escape.  For example, if a group of us walking in the open desert, everyone sees a massive astroid is coming down toward them.  Everyone will find their way out...especially if the condition to be safe  from the astroid will defend on individual's knowledge and skills. 

In the day of judgement, everyone will be concerned on their own accounts of doing good or bad actions that we be judged on.  Very scary, we will worry only about own self.

Except, for Prophet and Ahlulbayts.  They will be  busy giving water and syafaat to those who deserved.

Thats sounds quite similar to how most people are on Earth 

Edited by Murtaza1

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On 1/24/2019 at 11:29 PM, Gabenowa said:

Salaam Brothers, @ Bowtie and @ Sumerian you guys are not each others enemies. Neither is Iraq and Lebanon enemies. don’t make fun of each others different nationalities. I think based on ample evidence far too many people have suffered and died in both countries and continue to do so. I"'ve noticed a certain truth about "Bowtie", brother can be so undiplomatic in his thinking and logic that it stings, actually hurts but but but but but..... you can’t fault his pure logic and extreme rational thinking no matter how it stings. I think brother "Bowtie" has spent far too much time and energy arguing and debating with people who are so ignorant, so hateful and so irrational in their perceptions that the Brother does not possess patience anymore with stupid people.

Oh wow, where on Earth would ShiaChat be without your oh so diplomatic and respectful observations? Thank you so much for your so valued logical and mature contribution! The amount of hatred being shown is toxic. May Allah protect us all. 

Edited by 2Timeless

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59 minutes ago, IbnSina said:

No, not that I know of, not without intercession as far as I understand.

Okay I heard certain people will enter heaven after burning for a thousand years or something but will have a mark on them to show that they were in hell. So hell will remain very empty forever then?

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13 hours ago, Murtaza1 said:

Okay I heard certain people will enter heaven after burning for a thousand years or something but will have a mark on them to show that they were in hell. So hell will remain very empty forever then?

Salam their mark won't remain forever on them when they enter to Paradise ,it's inhabitants will see their mark but they will clean from any mark from hell by angles by order of Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) 

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7 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam their mark won't remain forever on them when they enter to Paradise ,it's inhabitants will see their mark but they will clean from any mark from hell by angles by order of Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) 

Ws, could you please provide the source for this?

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7 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam their mark won't remain forever on them when they enter to Paradise ,it's inhabitants will see their mark but they will clean from any mark from hell by angles by order of Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) 

Salam is it for non Muslims as well or only Muslims 

thanks

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