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Miss Wonderful

I need Diplomatic explanation why Muslim women can’t marry non Muslims?

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Salam all, I need 

1.) verses of Qur'an that state women cannot marry non Muslim

2.) a diplomatic way of why. I already stated cuz of religious confusion about he children would go through and because Firstly Allah stated so. But he responds back with “we are all human beings why would Islam be unfair.” I told him those are the boundaries but he wants more explanation...

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I think this is mostly due to cultural hierarchy in which people have raised their sons to be dominant and uptain patriarchal standards. One way is the belief that the man will influence his wife to take on his religion. And in the case of non-Muslim men, his children will become non-Muslim as well.

Of course, in reality this doesn’t always play out. The children often turn to the religion of the mother since mothers typically raise their children. 

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Islam is the final religion thats preserved and uncorrupted. Men are naturally more stronger mentaly and physically than women. In this world even the fathers ancestry takes precedence in a child's life than a mothers but its the other way round in the afterlife I think. So I think its important to keep away from non mahram men in order to fulfil Allah's (subhana wa tala) great plan through preserving Islam because if you married a non Muslim man then with his power he can succeed in taking you away from Islam, disrupting our creators great plan for us as his loyal creatures. 

Edited by Murtaza1

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6 hours ago, Raheel Yunus said:

2:221. Do not marry (dualist) women who associate partners with Allah until 
they believe. A believing slave woman is definitely better than a (dualist)
woman who associates partners with Allah, however pleasing she may 
seem to you. Nor give believing women in marriage to (dualist) men who associate partners with 
Allah until they believe. A believing slave man is certainly better than a 
(dualist) man who associates partners with Allah, however pleasing he may 
seem to you (for beauty is not in the body but in the sharing of faith). Such people (dualists) call you to the fire but Allah invites you (as much as the qualities of the Names comprising your essence allow) to Paradise and forgiveness. Allah makes clear His signs (of the reality) to 
people so they (these truths) are remembered.

You know the answer.........

Thanks for the verse but it’s not that easy to make a person of another belief understand cuz they will deny associating partners with God

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2 hours ago, Miss Wonderful said:

2.) a diplomatic way of why. I already stated cuz of religious confusion about he children would go through and because Firstly Allah stated so. But he responds back with “we are all human beings why would Islam be unfair.” I told him those are the boundaries but he wants more explanation...

Awwwwww hes so cute. Why don’t you make him convert - the interfaith love :love:

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@Miss Wonderful in sha Allah it will be of some help to you, sister. Im one of those people that the more I understood the "whys" of Islam, the more of fell in love with it. That doesnt mean that it hasnt been hard implementing some of the knowledge ive come to learn, just that it all started somewhere, and that was through exposure and questioning. In sha Allah whoever it is thats questioning will be guided as well.

W/s

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11 hours ago, Miss Wonderful said:

Salam all, I need 

1.) verses of Qur'an that state women cannot marry non Muslim

2.) a diplomatic way of why. I already stated cuz of religious confusion about he children would go through and because Firstly Allah stated so. But he responds back with “we are all human beings why would Islam be unfair.” I told him those are the boundaries but he wants more explanation...

In our household there is nothing diplomatic. We tell them the hard core truth, in plain and simple way, about same-sex cr-p, about najasa of certain humans, about halal and haram foods, about who they could befriend with and who don’t, about who they could marry with and who don’t, about how much distance to keep between men and women, about hijab, about non-vegetarianism and about the ills of modern feminism, and so on.

Once that is done -

Then we also tell them how to handle, this time we teach them diplomacy, the situations when they encounter someone or a situation all the way down to teaching them how to articulate their message without offending anyone. 

Our method is to first have them ‘grow their spine’, meaning not be confirming to the society and then present it to others so they don’t sound like some religious nuts. 

In my honest (harsh) opinion, if you need to be diplomatic to your children you already have lost half of the battle. You need to rethink your parenting and atmosphere in your household. Your children are YOUR children and not school system’s children. They need to be your ally who need to learn and cater to your version of truth, and take their lifestyle from you as the right version of lifestyle. And take everything else that is taught out there with a big grain of salt.

My apologies if my reply was not what you were expecting.  

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22 minutes ago, Irfani313 said:

In our household there is nothing diplomatic. We tell them the hard core truth, in plain and simple way, about same-sex cr-p, about najasa of certain humans, about halal and haram foods, about who they could befriend with and who don’t, about who they could marry with and who don’t, about how much distance to keep between men and women, about hijab, about non-vegetarianism and about the ills of modern feminism, and so on.

Once that is done -

Then we also tell them how to handle, this time we teach them diplomacy, the situations when they encounter someone or a situation all the way down to teaching them how to articulate their message without offending anyone. 

Our method is to first have them ‘grow their spine’, meaning not be confirming to the society and then present it to others so they don’t sound like some religious nuts. 

In my honest (harsh) opinion, if you need to be diplomatic to your children you already have lost half of the battle. You need to rethink your parenting and atmosphere in your household. Your children are YOUR children and not school system’s children. They need to be your ally who need to learn and cater to your version of truth, and take their lifestyle from you as the right version of lifestyle. And take everything else that is taught out there with a big grain of salt.

My apologies if my reply was not what you were expecting.  

@Irfani313 I don’t have kids for clarification but I do appreciate your answer

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34 minutes ago, Miss Wonderful said:

@Irfani313 I don’t have kids for clarification but I do appreciate your answer

In this case, we don’t know who your “he” is and in what context he is asking you this.

 
But the simple answer is this:
Islam doesn’t believe in the Hollywood soulmate but Islam does believe in its own style of soulmate between spouses hence Qur'an calls husband and wife to be the ‘libas’ or the garment / adornment / covering / protection / shield / shelter of each other. 
 
Spouse A who is inferior in belief system (to be diplomatic you could replace the inferior with different) than the spouse B doesn’t come close to fulfilling the ‘libas’ ideal of a Muslim wife and husband. This is one angle.
 
One of the other is, Islam is very pro-women in its roots. A Muslim woman enjoys infinitely more status, rights, and privileges than a woman from a pagan or materialistic society (in one she is an inferior child bearing cattle, in other she is a pure object of 15 minutes satisfaction) call it what you may. A high self esteem / high status woman of Moslems is completely incompatible with a human body with male organs attached but carrying a soul who doesn’t even recognize his Creator and all the good things about Him, and from Him. 

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14 hours ago, Miss Wonderful said:

1.) verses of Qur'an that state women cannot marry non Muslim

1. The verses of Qur'an like (5:5) do mention the permission of Muslim man to marry believing woman and the woman of the people of the book, but these and alike  do not mention any permission to marry the believing ie Muslims woman to the man of the people of the book.

Since the permission to marry the believing woman to man of people of the book is absent from Qur'an it is concluded obviously that the woman cannot be married to the people of the book.

2. All the Muslim scholars are in agreement that Muslim believing woman cannot be married to the people pf the book. The following link can be seen for further details:

https://archive.islamonline.net/?p=1187

wasalam

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19 hours ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

I think this is mostly due to cultural hierarchy in which people have raised their sons to be dominant and uptain patriarchal standards. One way is the belief that the man will influence his wife to take on his religion. And in the case of non-Muslim men, his children will become non-Muslim as well.

 

Not so. It is an Islamic edict.

Obedience to husband is obligatory so a non-Muslim husband may make an unislamic demand from his wife. The wife would be in a precarious position of obeying her husband but breaking an Islamic principle OR disobeying her husband and still breaking an Islamic principle.

20 hours ago, Miss Wonderful said:

2.) a diplomatic way of why. I already stated cuz of religious confusion about he children would go through and because Firstly Allah stated so. But he responds back with “we are all human beings why would Islam be unfair.” I told him those are the boundaries but he wants more explanation...

Islam allows mutah with Ahle-Kitab but at least Sistani recommends marriage for men with Muslim women only.

"We are all humans" but only some will make it to heaven so choose wisely.

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17 hours ago, Shia farm girl said:

Assalamualaikum, one of the reasons is, because men have 101, if I'm not mistaken, wajib responsibilities to the wife that are MANDATORY that he follows in regatds to her treatment.

Other religions and  non-religious lifestyles do not hold women in such a high regard as Islam does, nor do they make it mandatory upon men to respect these other 101 rights and conditions of their marriage. Islam protects the woman, and makes clear and defined the guidelines for the protection of her and any subsequent children that are produced in a marriage.

Outside of Islam, there isn't another religion that protects women as such. This is the most rational reason for why it's not permissible for a Muslim woman to marry a man other than a Muslim man, however he must be a GOOD and OBSERVANT Muslim man, and be willing to follow God's rules and laws pertaining to how he supposed to take care of his wife and children.

Men (and women) come in all different shades, everything from black to white and all the grey in the middle, so how much a particular man adheres to his wajib responsibilities to his wife, will vary from person to person,.

If a Muslim man marries outside of Islam to a Christian or a Jewish woman, it's okay, because her status will be improved and raised by the rules and rights in Islam that the man must follow in respecting and maintaining his wife and children. If a Muslim man wants to invite a woman from outside of Islam into Islam and under his care, then it's better for her, but if a woman goes outside of Islam to marry,she's putting herself in a danger zone because no other religion out there makes it mandatory upon the husband to take as good of care of the wife as Islam does.

Sorry that wasn't very well thought-out  or worded very well, I'm in a hurry right now!

W/s

Do you know where we could find a list of all these recommandations? 

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Guest Umm Amira
On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 10:22 AM, Islandsandmirrors said:

I think this is mostly due to cultural hierarchy in which people have raised their sons to be dominant and uptain patriarchal standards. One way is the belief that the man will influence his wife to take on his religion. And in the case of non-Muslim men, his children will become non-Muslim as well.

Of course, in reality this doesn’t always play out. The children often turn to the religion of the mother since mothers typically raise their children. 

Samina wa athona "we hear and we obey".... are you Muslim? Why are you going against the Qur'an? Do you presume that you know more than Allah? 

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Salaam, keep also in mind the in Shia Islam that even men cannot permanently outside the faith either (they are only allowed to partake in Mutah marriage with Ahle e Kitab "people of the book", not permanent marriage). This may be dependent on taqlid however, but I believe for the most case this is true.

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23 hours ago, Kirmani said:

Salaam, keep also in mind the in Shia Islam that even men cannot permanently outside the faith either (they are only allowed to partake in Mutah marriage with Ahle e Kitab "people of the book", not permanent marriage). This may be dependent on taqlid however, but I believe for the most case this is true.

The majority believe it’s lawful besides Sistani and some scholars 

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On 1/20/2019 at 12:14 AM, Miss Wonderful said:

@Irfani313 I don’t have kids for clarification but I do appreciate your answer

The two main reasons are (I have said this in other threads with similar topics, but it is worth repeating) 

1) Wikalat (Guardianship). In Islam, a women is under the Wikalat, or guardianship of her husband. It says in the Holy Qur'an, 

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ لاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ الْيَهُودَ وَالنَّصَارَى أَوْلِيَاء بَعْضُهُمْ أَوْلِيَاء بَعْضٍ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّهُم مِّنكُمْ فَإِنَّهُ مِنْهُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ 

O YOU who have attained to faith! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your awliaya: they are but awliya of one another and whoever of you takes them as a guardian for  himself  becomes, verily, one of them; behold, God does not guide such evildoers.

The word awliya (which I deliberately did not translate) is the plural of 'wali'. Wali, in this context, has the same meaning as 'wakil'. I.e. a guardian. The word 'wali' also has a more general meaning when it is used in other contexts. A wakil, or wali (in this context) is a person who who guards and ensures the safety and security of another person or group of individuals. 

Since a wakil needs to ensure the safety and security of those who are under their wikalat, under any circumstances, this sometimes involves putting their own life, safety, or property at risk. Noone will become the wakil of someone else unless they have an absolute dedication and loyalty to that person. A non Muslims cannot have this type of realtionship of wikalat, with a Muslim. They may pretend, in certain situations, that this is the case in order to get some sort of short term benefit for themselves, but Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) states in the Holy Qur'an that we, as Muslim/a cannot put ourselves in this situation. 

On a side note, this term 'awliaya' is sometimes translated as 'friend', meaning Muslims cannot be friends with non Muslims. This is not true and this is a wrong translation of the word 'awliya'. There is nothing wrong with friendship between Muslims and non Muslims so long as this friendship does not involve 'wakilat' (explained above). 

2) Lineage. In Islam, the lineage is through the father, except as Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) stated in his famous hadith, 'The lineage is through the Father except in my case, and my lineage is through Fatima((عليه السلام)) and Imam Ali((عليه السلام))'. But in all other cases, the lineage is through the father. So a Muslim women is not allowed to put herself in a situation where her progeny would be attached to the lineage of a non Muslim. 

 

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