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In the Name of God بسم الله
Anonymous2144

Nature of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

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45 minutes ago, Anonymous2144 said:
1 hour ago, islam25 said:

We are manifestation of Allah'.But we are unaware.

 All religious custums are to  make our heart understand and realise that we are nothingness and only Allah is reality.

It is said that highest value of person is for those we recognise this nothingness and are  free from all sort of slef Praise and EGO.And sees all praises and attributes are of Allah'.

 So we manifest a part of Him, we are nothingness. In a sense that we are a manifestation of Him (a part of Him) and He created limbs for us and the rest, so we are nothing but we just appear to be something correct ? 

@islam25 below is what I said.

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4 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Even limbs too are not yours.

That’s because Allah created them, not me or someone else, Allah turns them into dust then recreates them again in the hereafter maintaing it’s beauty for ever. Correct? 

Edited by Anonymous2144

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12 minutes ago, Anonymous2144 said:

That’s because Allah created them, not me or someone else, Allah turns them into dust then recreates them again in the hereafter maintaing it’s beauty for ever. Correct? 

I don't know what is in your mind.

Everything is Allah's attributes as well as essence.

Edited by islam25

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16 minutes ago, islam25 said:

I don't got what you mean by saying we manifest only part of him.

His attributes is His essence but not His full essence so we only manifest a part of God not fully. But the His attributes that He gave to us are not as great as His, they are limited. 

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1 minute ago, Anonymous2144 said:

His attributes is His essence but not His full essence so we only manifest a part of God not fully. But the His attributes that He gave to us are not as great as His, they are limited. 

Definitely that is true'.

Mohhamad Hussain Tabtabie says "Salvation means when one sees his all actions 'attributes and essence is Allah's attributes , actions and essence.

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10 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Definitely that is true'.

Mohhamad Hussain Tabtabie says "Salvation means when one sees his all actions 'attributes and essence is Allah's attributes , actions and essence.

What does he mean by that? I didn’t quiet understand that

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19 minutes ago, Anonymous2144 said:

What does he mean by that? I didn’t quiet understand that

I don't know.It is known only to Allah.It is only highest rank that one can achieve 

It needs a heart that is free from all sorts open and concealed shrik.

That is one's heart should be free from everything other' than Allah' and Love of Allah'.

Since we drowned with love for world and occupied with Love for money' prestige' gread, hatred .we can't understand it .

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There can be many different angles of viewing. Some times it is realized that we and God are two different things and some times it is realized that we actually are nothing and there is only He.

For instance, God is mentioned as 4th in a verse where secret counsil between 3 persons is mentioned:

Surah Al-Mujadila, Verse 7:

أَلَمْ تَرَ أَنَّ اللَّهَ يَعْلَمُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ مَا يَكُونُ مِن نَّجْوَىٰ ثَلَاثَةٍ إِلَّا هُوَ رَابِعُهُمْ وَلَا خَمْسَةٍ إِلَّا هُوَ سَادِسُهُمْ وَلَا أَدْنَىٰ مِن ذَٰلِكَ وَلَا أَكْثَرَ إِلَّا هُوَ مَعَهُمْ أَيْنَ مَا كَانُوا ثُمَّ يُنَبِّئُهُم بِمَا عَمِلُوا يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ

Do you not see that Allah knows whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the Earth? Nowhere is there a secret counsel between three persons but He is the fourth of them, nor (between) five but He is the sixth of them, nor less than that nor more but He is with them wheresoever they are; then He will inform them of what they did on the day of resurrection: surely Allah is Cognizant of all things. (English - Shakir) 

I emphasize on phrase "wala adna min thalika wala akthar" (nor less than that nor more). So we are not Him clearly. 

Then when we say a phrase "la howla wala quwata illa billah", we negate everything other than Him. It is the denial of one's possession of autonomous power and ability, and the simultaneous confession of the existence of that (relative) power and ability to make choices that He has given His servants to be their own.

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On 1/18/2019 at 8:36 AM, Anonymous2144 said:

Are we Allah, or part of Allah or do we represent a part of Allah (I.e His attributes)?

Salamun alaykum,

BismiLlah,

I would like to know your perspective on this matter.  What do you think, believe or see regarding all of this?

 

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9 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

Salamun alaykum,

BismiLlah,

I would like to know your perspective on this matter.  What do you think, believe or see regarding all of this?

 

What I see right now is, Allah is everywhere and He is close to everything by that I mean He is close/near to the things that the eyes can grasp and what the eyes can’t garsp (such as very small particles and atoms). Here’s my small analogy which will explain and elaborate on what I mean on close/near to everything, a human is a great example. Allah is next us(human) He is next to what’s inside us (Into extreme details), and He is next whats after us. , we manifest Him by that I mean we manifest His attributes His attributes are His essence but only part of His essence that He has made evident and revealed to us. 

Now the issue is, can is be said that we are simlair to Allah or part of Allah...?

The Qur'an says nothing is simlair to Him.

we have have sight and Allah also has sight but our sight is very limited Allah’s sight is unlimited, we use limbs to see, Allah does not use limbs too see.

Allah hears and we also hear but our hearing is very limited while with Allah it’s unlimited.

can it be said we are simlair to Him because we have sight and He has sight, we hear and He hears? 

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22 hours ago, Anonymous2144 said:

What I see right now is, Allah is everywhere and He is close to everything by that I mean He is close/near to the things that the eyes can grasp and what the eyes can’t garsp (such as very small particles and atoms). Here’s my small analogy which will explain and elaborate on what I mean on close/near to everything, a human is a great example. Allah is next us(human) He is next to what’s inside us (Into extreme details), and He is next whats after us. , we manifest Him by that I mean we manifest His attributes His attributes are His essence but only part of His essence that He has made evident and revealed to us. 

Now the issue is, can is be said that we are simlair to Allah or part of Allah...?

The Qur'an says nothing is simlair to Him.

we have have sight and Allah also has sight but our sight is very limited Allah’s sight is unlimited, we use limbs to see, Allah does not use limbs too see.

Allah hears and we also hear but our hearing is very limited while with Allah it’s unlimited.

can it be said we are simlair to Him because we have sight and He has sight, we hear and He hears? 

The Qur'an describes God in both of the perspectives at the same time.  In other words, it talks about God as both similar and incomparable, near and distant, beautiful and majestic, immanent and transcendent (or to use more Toaist terminology, God is both yin and yang).  In Islamic Terminology we call similarity of God with creation "tashbih", and we call God's incomparability to His creation "tanzih".  So although God says in the Qur'an that "There is nothing like Him", He says straight after that, "He is the Hearing, the Seeing".  Although God says in the Qur'an that He is Unique and One, He also says that "Wherever you turn there is His Face (and linguistically in Arabic, the wajh of something is its essence).  There are some people who like to emphasize and focus on the tanzih aspect of God and this is fine (it is what their hearts need at that moment!).  There are others who like to emphasize and focus on the tashbih aspect of God (and this too is fine for it is what their hearts need at that moment!)  Regardless of what you like to emphasize at any given moment, the fact of the matter remains that God in Himself is beyond such complementary pairs (which seemingly oppose each other); HE is beyond them because He is the very coincidence of these opposites. 

So, whatever you feel of God at this very moment, alhamdulillah!   How can it be untrue?  After all, God is doing nothing but showing Himself to you in that way and at that moment.  So just "be in the moment" as it is often said.  Simply be present, surrender, let go, and bask in His Eternal, Ever Present and Timeless Reality as He shows Himself to you as the ever-flowing stream of the various forms and qualities.          

Edited by eThErEaL

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42 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

tashbih

Can you translate that in English, I’m very terrible at Arabic Lol. 

43 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

tanzih

Same with this one please, thanks brother.

My understanding on Allah manifesting half of Himself  (I.e His attributes) is that He is Greatness itself, He is Love itself, He is the Merciful itself, He is the Beneficial itself. Am I correct ? 

His attributes are His essence, this is why it is said that He has made Himself partially evident to us but we cannot see Him fully His Full essence with our own eyes. 

Also is my human analogy correct? On describing how near is God is. 

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38 minutes ago, Anonymous2144 said:

Can you translate that in English, I’m very terrible at Arabic Lol. 

Same with this one please, thanks brother.

My understanding on Allah manifesting half of Himself  (I.e His attributes) is that He is Greatness itself, He is Love itself, He is the Merciful itself, He is the Beneficial itself. Am I correct ? 

His attributes are His essence, this is why it is said that He has made Himself partially evident to us but we cannot see Him fully His Full essence with our own eyes. 

Also is my human analogy correct? On describing how near is God is. 

Tashbih = God’s similarity, God’s nearness, God’s Immanence, God’s beautiful names.

 

Tanzih = God’s incomparability, God’s distance, God’s transcendence, God’s majestic names.

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2 hours ago, Anonymous2144 said:

My understanding on Allah manifesting half of Himself  (I.e His attributes) is that He is Greatness itself, He is Love itself, He is the Merciful itself, He is the Beneficial itself. Am I correct ? 

When you look at some mirror and you see a colorful reflection that is flickering on and off and then moving from one area of the mirror to another area, what are you seeing?  Are you seeing a flickering thing or are you seeing a mirror?  Notice how the flickering thing depends on the mirror and how the mirror does not depend on the flickering thing.  Notice how when the flickering thing moves and turns off and on the mirror itself does not move and does not turn off and on.  Notice also that the flickering thing exists in the mirror, with the mirror, by the mirror and through the mirror (so much so that there is nothing about the the flickering thing that is not the mirror).  So How much of the mirror are you seeing when you look at the flickering thing?  Half the mirror?  The whole mirror?  Part of the mirror?   

 

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From Ali (many blessings be upon him) in the Nahjul Balagha:

 

Quote

He who assigns to Him (different) conditions does not believe in His oneness, nor does he who likens Him grasp His reality. He who illustrates Him does not signify Him. He who points at Him and imagines Him does not mean Him. Everything that is known through itself has been created, and everything that exists by virtue of other things is the effect (of a cause). He works but not with the help of instruments. He fixes measures but not with the activity of thinking. He is rich but not by acquisition. 

Times do not keep company with Him, and implements do not help Him. His Being precedes times. His Existence precedes non-existence and His eternity precedes beginning. By His creating the senses it is known that He has no senses. By the contraries in various matters it is known that He has no contrary, and by the similarity between things it is known that there is nothing similar to Him. He has made light the contrary of darkness, brightness that of gloom, dryness that of moisture and heat that of cold. He produces affection among inimical things. 

He fuses together diverse things, brings near remote things and separates things which are joined together. He is not confined by limits, nor counted by numbers. Material parts can surround things of their own kind, and organs can point out things similar to themselves. The word(1) "mundhu" (I.e. since) disproves their eternity, the word "qad" (that denotes nearness of time of occurrence), disproves their being from ever and the word "lawla" (if it were not) keep them remote from perfection. 

Through them the Creator manifests Himself to the intelligence, and through them He is guarded from the sight of the eyes. 
Stillness and motion do not occur in Him, and how can that thing occur in Him which He has Himself made to occur, and how can a thing revert to Him which He first created, and how can a thing appear in Him which He first brought to appearance. If it had not been so, His Self would have become subject to diversity, His Being would have become divisible (into parts), and His reality would have been prevented from being deemed Eternal. If there was a front to Him there would have been a rear also for Him . He would need completing only if shortage befell Him. In that case signs of the created would appear in Him, and He would become a sign (leading to other objects) instead of signs leading to Him. Through the might of His abstention (from affectedness) He is far above being affected by things which effect others. 

He is that which does not change or vanish. The process of setting does not behove Him. He has not begotten any one lest He be regarded as having been born. He has not been begotten otherwise He would be contained within limits. He is too High to have sons. He is too purified to contact women. Imagination cannot reach Him so as to assign Him quantity. Understanding cannot think of Him so as to give him shape. Senses do not perceive Him so as to feel Him. Hands cannot touch Him so as to rub against Him. He does not change into any condition. He does not pass from one state to another. Nights and days do not turn Him old. Light and darkness do not alter Him. 

It cannot be said that He has a limit or extremity, or end or termination; nor do things control Him so as to raise Him or lower Him, nor does anything carry Him so as to bend Him or keep Him erect. He is not inside things nor outside them. He conveys news, but not with the tongue or voice. He listens, but not with the holes of the ears or the organs of hearing. He says, but does not utter words. He remembers, but does not memorise. He determines, but not by exercising His mind. He loves and approves without any sentimentality (of heart). He hates and feels angry without any painstaking. When He intends to create someone He says "Be" and there he is, but not through a voice that strikes (the ears) is that call heard. His speech is an act of His creation. His like never existed before this. If had been eternal it would have been the second God. 

It cannot be said that He came into being after He had not been in existence because in that case the attributes of the created things would be assigned to Him and there would remain no difference between them and Him, and He would have no distinction over them. Thus, the Creator and the created would become equal and the initiator and the initiated would be on the same level. He created (the whole of) creation without any example made by someone else, and He did not secure the assistance of any one out of His creation for creating it. 

He created the Earth and suspended it without being busy, retained it without support, made it stand without legs, raised it without pillars, protected it against bendings and curvings and defended it against crumbling and splitting (into parts). He fixed mountains on it like stumps, solidified its rocks, caused its streams to flow and opened wide its valleys. Whatever He made did not suffer from any flow, and whatever He strengthened did not show any weakness. 
He manifests Himself over the Earth with His authority and greatness. He is aware of its inside through his knowledge and understanding. He has power over every thing in the Earth by virtue of His sublimity and dignity. Nothing from the Earth that he may ask for defies Him, nor does it oppose Him so as to overpower Him. No swift-footed creature can run away from Him so as to surpass Him. He is not needy towards any possessing person so that he should feed Him. All things bow to Him and are humble before His greatness. They cannot flee away from His authority to someone else in order to escape His benefit or His harm. There is no parallel for Him who may match Him and no one like Him so as to equal Him. 

He will destroy the Earth after its existence, till all that exists on it will become non-existent. But the extinction of the world after its creation is no stranger than its first formation and invention. How could it be? Even if all the animals of the Earth, whether birds or beasts, stabled cattle or pasturing ones, of different origins and species, dull people and sagacious men -- all jointly try to create (even) a mosquito they are not able to bring it into being and do not understand what is the way to its creation. Their wits are bewildered and wandering. Their powers fall short and fail, and return disappointed and tired, knowing that they are defeated and admitting their inability to produce it, also realizing that they are too weak (even) to destroy it. 

Surely, after the extinction of the world, Allah the Glorified will remain alone with nothing else beside Him. He will be, after its extinction, as He was before its production: without time or place or moment or period. At this moment, period and time will not exist, and years and hours will disappear. There will be nothing except Allah, the One, the All-powerful. To Him is the return of all matters. Its initial creation was not in its power; and the prevention of its extinction was (also) not in its power. If it had the power to prevent it, it would have existed for ever. When He made anything of the world, the making of it did not cause Him any difficulty, and the creation of anything which He created and formed did not fatigue Him. He did not create it to heighten His authority nor for fear of loss or harm, nor to seek its help against an overwhelming foe, nor to guard against any avenging opponent with its help, nor for the extension of His domain by its help, nor for boasting (over largeness of His possession) against a partner, nor because He felt lonely and desired to seek its company. 
Then after its creation He will destroy it, but not because any worry has overcome Him in its upkeep and administration, nor for any pleasure that will accrue to Him, nor for the cumbrousness of anything over Him. The length of its life does not weary Him so as to induce Him to its quick destruction. But Allah, the Glorified, has maintained it with His kindness, kept it intact with His command and perfected it with His power. Then after its destruction, He will resuscitate it, but not for any need of His own towards it, nor to seek the assistance of any of its things against it, nor to change over from the condition of loneliness to that of company, nor from the condition of ignorance and blindness to that of knowledge and search, nor from paucity and need towards needlessness and plenty, nor from disgrace and lowliness towards honor and prestige. 
 

 

Edited by HakimPtsid

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5 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

When you look at some mirror and you see a colorful reflection that is flickering on and off and then moving from one area of the mirror to another area, what are you seeing?  Are you seeing a flickering thing or are you seeing a mirror?  Notice how the flickering thing depends on the mirror and how the mirror does not depend on the flickering thing.  Notice how when the flickering thing moves and turns off and on the mirror itself does not move and does not turn off and on.  Notice also that the flickering thing exists in the mirror, with the mirror, by the mirror and through the mirror (so much so that there is nothing about the the flickering thing that is not the mirror).  So How much of the mirror are you seeing when you look at the flickering thing?  Half the mirror?  The whole mirror?  Part of the mirror?   

 

Just correct me if I am wrong.

What I have understood that nature of essence of Allah is not known completely to anyone.But Prophets as and awlias know Allah but not entirely.

The Allah I know academically  is  what ever exists is Allah both apparently and in reality in this domain (relm).

In otherwards Allah' has not created what are we see rather Allah has made Himself apparent in this form (universes). Even though We see multiple things in cosmos but in reality it is  one (unity).

And in Hidden relm is too only Allah but at higher level appearence (manifestation.)

And the apparent cosmos and Hidden relm are not two different things,but one with  different degrees of appearance.

Edited by islam25

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6 hours ago, islam25 said:

What I have understood that nature of essence of Allah is not known completely to anyone.But Prophets as and awlias know Allah but not entirely.

3

One who "knows" God is simply knowing his self (not some imagined, fanciful idea, or thought of what or who he is - but his actual self!).  Furthermore, your actual self is not something to get to know as you already know your actual self (you are that, and so you already are what you know).  Your true self IS itself knowing (it knows itself because it is itself and it is what it means to know, so it knows itself by itself and with itself).  There is nothing that needs to happen to you, there is nothing that you need to become and there is nothing that needs to be gained by you.  Your self is already absolutely perfect and absolutely knowing of itself.  Initially one has to constantly recall the fact that who he thinks he is and who he usually imagines himself to be (I.e. some individual or person that is limited and imperfect, was born and will die, has a name and a status etc..) is not who he actually is.  It is very hard to believe his initially because of societal and environmental conditioning.  For example, if I take a picture of you and I show you the photograph you will tell yourself, "that's me!".  But that is just a glossy piece of paper (are you a glossy piece of paper?)  But the reason you said "that's me!" is because of your conditioning.  Besides that simple example, we have more serious conditioning that gives us all kinds of thoughts and ideas about who we are.  We are conditioned into think that you are (e.g. John Smith), was born (on the year XYZ, and on such and such a date), that you are the emotions you feel and the sensations you feel, the body that you have and the person in the mirror that is gazed upon, that you wake up and you go to sleep etc etc.  If one strongly "associates" (shirk) their actual self with such an imaginary and fanciful idea of a self then obviously such statements that say "He who knows his self has known his Lord" will never make any sense to him unless he tries to interpret it in a way that best suits the God of his belief.  

So to answer your question:

You are not other than what you know.    

Quote

Whatever exists is Allah both apparently and in reality in this domain (relm).

Yes.  "He is the manifestand the hidden" as the Qur'an says.  

Quote

Allah' has not created what are we see rather Allah has made Himself apparent in this form (universes). Even though We see multiple things in cosmos but in reality it is  one (unity).

Yes.  This is because He is the manifest.  The mirror is manifest, not the flickering object in the mirror.  There is nothing but the mirror!  The mirror is at once, manifest and hidden, first and last.  (to go back to the analogy of the mirror)

Quote

And in Hidden relm is too only Allah but at higher level appearence (manifestation.)

Think of the mirror.  The hidden IS the manifest and the manifest is the hidden.   They are not two as you kind of alluded to.

Quote

And the apparent cosmos and Hidden relm are not two different things,but one with  different degrees of appearance.

 

Edited by eThErEaL

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