Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Anonymous2144

Nature of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, islam25 said:

This is not  true'.

But He Himself is manifest .What ever exists animals ,humans and everything is Allah manifestation.

That the simlair saying of trinitarians saying God manifested himself in Jesus Christ furthermore you said everything, that’s pantheism that’s shirk. 

Edited by Anonymous2144

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Anonymous2144 said:

That the simlair saying of trinitarians saying God manifested himself in Jesus Christ furthermore you said everything, that’s pantheism that’s shirk. 

Everything manifests Allah is not only my belief rather all great Shia scholars particularly Arifs 

Christianity's is wrong because they limited Allah's manifestation only to Jesus .

But Islam teachs everything manifests Allah.

I willl qoute again What Imam Khomeini says"Infact there is no existent other than Allah"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Anonymous2144 said:

He Himself is not manifest but His partially manifest by making His attributes manifest,

Things have two sides, zahir & batin. Since we see God through His creations which have these two sides, we understand that whatever is manifest & hidden is the reflection of that One pure existence.

Surah Al-Hadid, Verse 3:

هُوَ الْأَوَّلُ وَالْآخِرُ وَالظَّاهِرُ وَالْبَاطِنُ وَهُوَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ

He is the First and the Last and the Ascendant (over all) and the Knower of hidden things, and He is Cognizant of all things. (English - Shakir) 

And perhaps that is the reason why this verse ends on "wa huwa bekulle shay'in aleem".

Edited by Salsabeel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Whatever little information man can get about the Divine Being, he can acquire it through His names. Otherwise man has no access to His Person. Even the Holy Prophet did not have, though he was the most learned and the noblest of all human beings. No one other than Him can know Him. Man can have access only up to the Divine names.

The knowledge of the Divine names has several grades. Some of them we can comprehend. Others can be grasped only by the Holy Prophet and some of his chosen followers.

https://www.al-Islam.org/light-within-me-mutahhari-tabatabai-Khomeini/part-3-1-interpretation-surah-al-hamd-ayatullah-ruhullah

 

 

Edited by S.M.H.A.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

is

 

7 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

Things have two sides, zahir & batin. Since we see God through His creations which have these two sides, we understand that whatever is manifest & hidden is the reflection of that One pure existence.

Surah Al-Hadid, Verse 3:

هُوَ الْأَوَّلُ وَالْآخِرُ وَالظَّاهِرُ وَالْبَاطِنُ وَهُوَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ

He is the First and the Last and the Ascendant (over all) and the Knower of hidden things, and He is Cognizant of all things. (English - Shakir) 

And perhaps that is the reason why this verse ends on "wa huwa bekulle shay'in aleem".

Here’s the meaning of congnizant 

having knowledge or awareness.
"statesmen must be cognizant of the political boundaries within which they work"
 
 
 
How can we see God through His creation when His creation is just His attributes manifested, furthermore how can it be said that Allah can be seen through His creation when whatever our eyes have seen has limited it. 
 
Have a look at this video and you will see what I mean.
 
 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Anonymous2144 said:

How can we see God through His creation when His creation is just His attributes manifested, furthermore how can it be said that Allah can be seen through His creation

I thought that with the analogy of light, I have made clear that we cannot see pure light. Whatever is seen is "ITS" reflection. Here "Its" is what with which we points towards  light. And that is why I said in the beginning that I have just a "hu"(هُوَ) with me 

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is Noor like of which there is no noor. 

 

12 minutes ago, Anonymous2144 said:

What does He mean by that? Is there a metaphorical explaination??? 

Yes, these divine words too have zahir & batin of meanings. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

I thought that with the analogy of light, I have made clear that we cannot see pure light. Whatever is seen is "ITS" reflection. Here "Its" is what with which we points towards  light. And that is why I said in the beginning that I have just a "hu"(هُوَ) with me 

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is Noor like of which there is no noor. 

 

Yes, these divine words too have zahir & batin of meanings. 

From what I understand from the light analogy is that Allah is the Pure Light and we cannot see the Pure Light but we can see it’s reflection from other physical things (referring to Allah attributes being manifest through His creation). This is why it is said that He is manifest but not physically, Allah’s Essence and Attributes are one which we call the Unity of God, this is why the Qur'an says He is manifest and hidden, He Allah is partially manifest but not fully manifest. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Yes, these divine words too have zahir & batin of meanings

Does it mean that Allah is close to His creation in the sense He is close to us(our body) and close to what’s within us(what’s inside our bodies) and what’s outside of our body(what comes out of our body) all at the same time, The same analogy can be used with all His creations and what we have created, am I correct ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Anonymous2144 said:

From what I understand from the light analogy is that Allah is the Pure Light and we cannot see the Pure Light but we can see it’s reflection from other physical things (referring to Allah attributes being manifest through His creation). This is why it is said that He is manifest but not physically, Allah’s Essence and Attributes are one which we call the Unity of God, this is why the Qur'an says He is manifest and hidden, He Allah is partially manifest but not fully manifest. 

Analogy of Allah' and creation.

If Allah is Ocean it's waves are creation.

So Allah and creation are not separate from one another.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Analogy of Allah' and creation.

If Allah is Ocean it's waves are creation.

So Allah and creation are not separate from one another.

But we are not part of Allah we are physical beings the He created, Allah is not a physical being, we cannot gives Allah any physical attributes to Him but He has given us some of His attributes such as Love,mercy,generosity,sight,hearing and ect. 

We are separate from Allah but we have some of His attributes but  they are limited while with God they are unlimited. 

Edited by Anonymous2144

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Anonymous2144 said:

But we are not part of Allah we are physical beings the He created, Allah is not a physical being, we cannot gives Allah any physical attributes to Him but He has given us some of His attributes such as Love,mercy,generosity,sight,hearing and ect. 

We are separate from Allah but we have some of His attributes but  they are limited while with God they are unlimited. 

What is relation between ocean and wave.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Anonymous2144 said:

But we are not part of Allah we are physical beings the He created, Allah is not a physical being, we cannot gives Allah any physical attributes to Him but He has given us some of His attributes such as Love,mercy,generosity,sight,hearing and ect. 

We are separate from Allah but we have some of His attributes but  they are limited while with God they are unlimited. 

Allah and creation are not  mutually exclusive.

Andvnot like builder and building.where building is separate from builder.And both are mutually exclusive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, islam25 said:

both are mutually exclusive.

But you said 

 

2 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Allah and creation are not  mutually exclusive.

 

Both are contradicting each other, 

the analogy of the Light poves my point that I’m making that Allah’s creation has some attributes of Him but they are limited to us but unlimited to Him. For example eye sight we cannot see what’s behind us and infront of us at the same time or over the west and the east at the exact same time, only with Allah that’s possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Anonymous2144 said:

But you said 

 

Both are contradicting each other, 

the analogy of the Light poves my point that I’m making that Allah’s creation has some attributes of Him but they are limited to us but unlimited to Him. For example eye sight we cannot see what’s behind us and infront of us at the same time or over the west and the east at the exact same time, only with Allah that’s possible.

I said Allah and creation are not mutually exclusive.

But builder that we see here is mutually exclusive from building.

Edited by islam25

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, islam25 said:

I said Allah and creation are not mutually exclusive.

But builder that we see here is mutually exclusive from building.

So what trying to say is we’re Allah’s creation and Allah’s creation is not Allah-free, correct ? 

Edited by Anonymous2144

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Salsabeel @islam25

Isaiah 44:34 “Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the One who formed you from the womb, “I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by Myself and spreading out the Earth all alone”  -The bible  

The Qur'an confirms this, Allah Created us, we cannot Be a literal manifestation of Him fully nor Like Him but we are a manifestation of His attributes.

 

 

Edited by Anonymous2144

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@islam25 

the building analogy, 

the builder builds a building he then after building it, has to maintain it by cleaning it and preventing faults from happening to it outside and inside. 

Now, Allah created us, He can take our life or extend our life whenever He likes and as He please, He is the Sutainer and Nourisher, The Giver of health and wealth and withdraws them, and He doesn’t act on compulsion and more 

Now the difference is that we have some attributes of Allah while the building doesn’t have the attributes of us, but we have a limited version of Allah’s attributes while Allah’s is unlimited, how can it be said that we are a manifestation of Allah when Allah is far greater. 

Edited by Anonymous2144

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Anonymous2144 said:

So what trying to say is we’re Allah’s creation and Allah’s creation is not Allah-free, correct ? 

Yes.

Allah' is not at different place and taking care of creation..

Edited by islam25

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Yes.

So you agree that we are not a fully manifestation of Allah rather we are a manifestation of His attributes in a way that is not greater then Him, and Allah is near/close to everything in every way  possible without being inside it, from the smallest particles that the eyes cannot grasp to the largest things that the eye can see,from within and out of it. And that Allah is the Lord of all His creation and everything, and we partially rely on Him, and we are not part of Him. 

Edited by Anonymous2144

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Anonymous2144 said:

So you agree that we are not a fully manifestation of Allah rather we are a manifestation of His attributes in a way that is not greater then Him, and Allah is near/close to everything in every way  possible without being inside it, from the smallest particles that the eyes cannot grasp to the largest things that the eye can see,from within and out of it. And that Allah is the Lord of all His creation and everything, and we partially rely on Him, and we are not part of Him. 

Allah is clser by being inside and outside 'before and after .Hideen and manifest.

Because everything is appearance whose reality is Allah.

Imam Ali as I don't any thing but Allah before it, into it and after it.

Edited by islam25

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Allah is clser by being inside and outside 'before and after .Hideen and manifest.

Because everything is appearance whose reality is Allah.

Imam Ali as I don't any thing but Allah before it, into it and after it.

You mean Allah is closer to the thing’s particles and close to it and close to what’s after it(behind it), all at the same time?Correct ? 

Edited by Anonymous2144

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Anonymous2144 said:

Allah’s Essence and Attributes are one

 

4 hours ago, Anonymous2144 said:

we cannot Be a literal manifestation of Him fully nor Like Him but we are a manifestation of His attributes.

 

Can you explain as to why there is difference in the above two highlighted statements?

At one place you were saying Allah's essence & attributes are one while at other place you are mentioning them as they are something other than Him. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Anonymous2144 said:

You mean Allah is closer to the thing’s particles and close to it and close to what’s after it(behind it), all at the same time?Correct ? 

Mr. things all are just appearce but what really  is  that isAllah 

How close is wave to the Ocean.

How close is soul to us.

Mohammed Hussain Tabtabie "Soul of souls is Allah" .

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Sermon 65:
Praise be to Allah for Whom one condition does not proceed another so that He may be the First before being the Last or He may be Manifest before being Hidden. Everyone called one (alone) save Him is by virtue of being small (in number); and everyone enjoying honor other than Him is humble. Every powerful person other than Him is weak. Every master (owner) other than Him is slave (owned). 
 

Quote

Sermon 49:  
Praise be to Allah Who lies inside all hidden things, and towards Whom all open things guide. He cannot be seen by the eye of an onlooker, but the eye which does not see Him cannot deny Him while the mind that proves His existence cannot perceive Him. He is so high in sublimity that nothing can be more sublime than He, while in nearness, He is so near that no one can be nearer than He. But his sublimity does not put Him at a distance from anything of His creation, nor does His nearness bring them on equal level to Him. He has not informed (human) wit about the limits of His qualities. Nevertheless, He has not prevented it from securing essential knowledge of Him. So he is such that all signs of existence stand witness for Him till the denying mind also believes in Him. Allah is sublime beyond what is described by those who liken Him to things or those who deny Him. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

 

Can you explain as to why there is difference in the above two highlighted statements?

At one place you were saying Allah's essence & attributes are one while at other place you are mentioning them as they are something other than Him. 

If we are a manifestation of Allah’s full Essence and Attributes then we are God ourselves, that’s shirk Allah has no limbs and limitations His for greater then His creation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Anonymous2144 said:

If we are a manifestation of Allah’s full Essence and Attributes then we are God ourselves

So which one of the following is correct statement:

1. Allah’s Essence and Attributes are one
2. we cannot Be a literal manifestation of Him fully nor Like Him but we are a manifestation of His attributes.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

So which one of the following is correct statement:

1. Allah’s Essence and Attributes are one
2. we cannot Be a literal manifestation of Him fully nor Like Him but we are a manifestation of His attributes.

 

We believe in the unity of Allah so it’s 1 but also 2

Edited by Anonymous2144

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Anonymous2144 said:

I don’t understand that because of the typo

لَمْ يُطْلِعِ الْعُقُولَ عَلَى تَحْدِيدِ صِفَتِهِ

He has not informed (human) with about the limits of His qualities. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Salsabeel said:

لَمْ يُطْلِعِ الْعُقُولَ عَلَى تَحْدِيدِ صِفَتِهِ

He has not informed (human) with about the limits of His qualities. 

 

So we are not aware of the limits of His attributes? Correct?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...