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In the Name of God بسم الله

Can we find 12 Imams in Kalima? (Shahadah)

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Muslim2010

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The imammah of 12 Imams is defined as principle in Qur'an in many verses.. There are many hadith both in Sunni and Shia about 12 Imams/ caliphs / ameers.

Can we link to find this basis in kalima in any form as confirmation? Would members of ShiaChat like to respond?

Hadith, Verses of Qur'an and logical comments are welcome

@Salsabeel   @Ralvi   @Asghar Ali Karbalai  @Ashvazdanghe  @just a Muslim

wasalam

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4 hours ago, skyweb1987 said:

The imammah of 12 Imams is defined as principle in Qur'an in many verses.. There are many hadith both in Sunni and Shia about 12 Imams/ caliphs / ameers.

Can we link to find this basis in kalima in any form as confirmation? Would members of ShiaChat like to respond?

Hadith, Verses of Qur'an and logical comments are welcome

@Salsabeel   @Ralvi   @Asghar Ali Karbalai  @Ashvazdanghe  @just a Muslim

wasalam

The first part of kalima 'لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله' has 14 letters and the second part 'لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله' has 12 letters.

What else is left brother to say? :-)

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Interesting! I like this! I’ll try my best ahah I’m still learning and not all that smart aha. 

But @Asghar Ali Karbalai Is right on the nose! 

Well we know that 12 caliphs are also the 12 princes from the line of Propeht Ismael(عليه السلام) like the Qur'an mentions.

in the kalima of course we mention Prophet Muhammed(SAAWS) first and the Imam Ali(عليه السلام) as wali but also the caliphate. And then [...Bila Fasl]

 so they go into that one line and continue from the line of Bani Hashim. Establishing caliphate are also from that one line and will always exist. 

And so All of our 12 Imams are either Muhammeds or then Ali. The order is described (with the flow of the Kalma) and they are established as one! And we know they are portions of each other. And that they do not end, but continue with our current Imam.

but they are...forever 

blessing and peace be to all of them.

thus establishing caliphs as being Muhammed and Ali.  And they are always either Muhammed or Ali. Imam Hassan just Like Rasoolullah, Imam Hussein just like Rasoolullah and Moula Abbas like Imam Ali(عليه السلام) 

And we also know the 3rd and 4th caliphs of earth are Propeht Muhammed(SAWAS) and Imam Ali(عليه السلام) 

haha I don’t know if I properly expressed what i meant. I pray Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) makes me better at this.  

Forgive me if I got anything wrong! I always wish to grow and know more. So thanks for tagging me!! Im interested in your perspective as well brother 

wasalam

 

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Allah swt made it compulsory for Himself and Angles to send blessings to the Prophet (عليه السلام). Also Mukminin must do the same ...ayat 33:56

 "اللهم صل علی محمد و آل محمد" (O Allah, May you grant peace and honor on Muhammad and his family

Three components on salawat

Allah ....laa illaha illa Allah

Muhammad ....Muhammad ur Rasulullah

Wa aali Muhammad....

When saying salawat...it is inline with kalima, plus Imamat.

Without salawat, the solat will not be accepted.

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21 hours ago, Asghar Ali Karbalai said:

The first part of kalima 'لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله' has 14 letters and the second part 'لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله' has 12 letters.

What else is left brother to say? :-)

You have rightly nailed the concept of 12 Imams present in this numerical form. However, I like to add the following in this regard for clarity:

1.  First Part of Kalima "La illaha ill  il Allah": 

لا الہ الا اللہ : 

First part of kalima has 12 letters that are: ل ا ا ل ہ ا ل ا ا ل ل ہ

The following hadith are quoted in this regard:

-" Muhammad ibn al-Husayn ibn Ahmed ibn al-Walid (may Allah be pleased with him) said: Muhammad ibn al-Husayn al-Saffar said: Ibrahim ibn Hashim said on the authority of  Husayn ibn Yazid al-Nawfili on the authority of Isma’il ibn Muslim al-Sakuni from Abu `Abd Allah Ja’far ibn Muhammad (عليه السلام) on the authority of his father (عليه السلام) on the
authority of his forefathers (عليه السلام) that  The Messenger of Allah said: “The best act of service [`ibadah] is to say: `There is no God but Allah’ [La ilaha illa Allah].”

- Muhammad ibn Musa ibn al-Mutawakkil (رضي الله عنه) said: Abu al-Husayn Muhammad ibn Ja`far al-Asadi said: Muhammad ibn al-Husayn al-Sufi said: Yusub ibn `Aqil on the authority of Ishaq ibn Rahwayh said:

When Abu al-Hasan al-Risa (عليه السلام) reached Naysabur, and intended to go from there to al-Ma’mum, some traditionists met him. They asked him, “O son of the Messenger of Allah! You are gong from us without relating any Hadith to us so that we can derive benefit from you.” He was sitting in a camel-borne sedan, so he leaned his head out, and  replied: I heard my father, Musa ibn Ja’far say: I heard my father Ja’far ibn Muhammad say: I heard my father Muhammad ibn `Ali say: I heard my father `Ali ibn Husayn say: I heard my father Husayn ibn `Ali ibn Abu Talib say: I heard my father the Commander of the faithful `Ali ibn Abu Talib (عليه السلام) say: I heard the Messenger of Allah (SA) say: I  heard Jibra’il say: I heard Allah, Exalted be His Glory, say, `There is no God but Allah’ is my Fortress. Whoever enters My Fortress is safe from My Chastisement.” When the camel passed by, he (عليه السلام) called out to us, “That is subject to conditions. And I am among its conditions.”

The Compiler of this book explains: Among the conditions (of the statement; there is no God but Allah) is the acknowledgment that Al-Rida (عليه السلام) is an Imam appointed by Allah, the Mighty and High, over the people [`ibad], and the one to whom obedience is due.

(Chapter 1: Thawab al-Muwahhidin wa-al-Arifin. Reward for the Monotheists and Gnostics, Al Tauheed by Sheikh Saduq)

The following sentences are taken for examples to mention the importance of 12 letters used as part of the relevant verses of Qur'an:

ٱلرَّحْمَٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ

٢_٢٤٧         وَقَالَ لَهُمْ نَبِيُّهُمْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ قَدْ بَعَثَ لَكُمْ طَالُوتَ مَلِكًۭا ۚ قَالُوٓا۟ أَنَّىٰ يَكُونُ لَهُ ٱلْمُلْكُ عَلَيْنَا وَنَحْنُ أَحَقُّ بِٱلْمُلْكِ مِنْهُ وَلَمْ يُؤْتَ سَعَةًۭ مِّنَ ٱلْمَالِ ۚ قَالَ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ ٱصْطَفَىٰهُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَزَادَهُۥ بَسْطَةًۭ فِى ٱلْعِلْمِ وَٱلْجِسْمِ ۖ وَٱللَّهُ يُؤْتِى مُلْكَهُۥ مَن يَشَآءُ ۚ وَٱللَّهُ وَٰسِعٌ عَلِيمٌۭ

٢_٢٦١         مَّثَلُ ٱلَّذِينَ يُنفِقُونَ أَمْوَٰلَهُمْ فِى سَبِيلِ ٱللَّهِ كَمَثَلِ حَبَّةٍ أَنۢبَتَتْ سَبْعَ سَنَابِلَ فِى كُلِّ سُنۢبُلَةٍۢ مِّا۟ئَةُ حَبَّةٍۢ ۗ وَٱللَّهُ يُضَٰعِفُ لِمَن يَشَآءُ ۗ وَٱللَّهُ وَٰسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ

٢_٢٦٨         ٱلشَّيْطَٰنُ يَعِدُكُمُ ٱلْفَقْرَ وَيَأْمُرُكُم بِٱلْفَحْشَآءِ ۖ وَٱللَّهُ يَعِدُكُم مَّغْفِرَةًۭ مِّنْهُ وَفَضْلًۭا ۗ وَٱللَّهُ وَٰسِعٌ عَلِيمٌۭ

٢_١٦٣         وَإِلَٰهُكُمْ إِلَٰهٌۭ وَٰحِدٌۭ ۖ لَّآ إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنُ ٱلرَّحِيمُ

٣_٥١  إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ رَبِّى وَرَبُّكُمْ فَٱعْبُدُوهُ ۗ هَٰذَا صِرَٰطٌۭ مُّسْتَقِيمٌۭ

٢_٢٦٣         ۞ قَوْلٌۭ مَّعْرُوفٌۭ وَمَغْفِرَةٌ خَيْرٌۭ مِّن صَدَقَةٍۢ يَتْبَعُهَآ أَذًۭى ۗ وَٱللَّهُ غَنِىٌّ حَلِيمٌۭ

٣_١١٨         يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ لَا تَتَّخِذُوا۟ بِطَانَةًۭ مِّن دُونِكُمْ لَا يَأْلُونَكُمْ خَبَالًۭا وَدُّوا۟ مَا عَنِتُّمْ قَدْ بَدَتِ ٱلْبَغْضَآءُ مِنْ أَفْوَٰهِهِمْ وَمَا تُخْفِى صُدُورُهُمْ أَكْبَرُ ۚ قَدْ بَيَّنَّا لَكُمُ ٱلْءَايَٰتِ ۖ إِن كُنتُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ

٦_١٠٢         ذَٰلِكُمُ ٱللَّهُ رَبُّكُمْ ۖ لَآ إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ ۖ خَٰلِقُ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ فَٱعْبُدُوهُ ۚ وَهُوَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ وَكِيلٌۭ

١٦_٥١         ۞ وَقَالَ ٱللَّهُ لَا تَتَّخِذُوٓا۟ إِلَٰهَيْنِ ٱثْنَيْنِ ۖ إِنَّمَا هُوَ إِلَٰهٌۭ وَٰحِدٌۭ ۖ فَإِيَّٰىَ فَٱرْهَبُونِ

٣٦_٤  عَلَىٰ صِرَٰطٍۢ مُّسْتَقِيمٍۢ

٣٨_٦٧         قُلْ هُوَ نَبَؤٌا۟ عَظِيمٌ

٤٣_٦٤         إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ هُوَ رَبِّى وَرَبُّكُمْ فَٱعْبُدُوهُ ۚ هَٰذَا صِرَٰطٌۭ مُّسْتَقِيمٌۭ

٨٩_٢٩         فَٱدْخُلِى فِى عِبَٰدِى

All the sentences in red color as part of relevant verses have 12 letters. 

These are sufficient examples for mindful one to think on the truth about importance of 12 letters in resemblance of 12 Imams.

2. Second Part               محمد رسول اللہ

The second part of kalima also has 12 letters , these include:  م ح م د ر س و ل ا ل ل ہ

The following verse is taken from Qur'an

:٤٨_٢٩    مُّحَمَّدٌۭ رَّسُولُ ٱللَّهِ ۚ وَٱلَّذِينَ مَعَهُۥٓ أَشِدَّآءُ عَلَى ٱلْكُفَّارِ رُحَمَآءُ بَيْنَهُمْ ۖ تَرَىٰهُمْ رُكَّعًۭا سُجَّدًۭا يَبْتَغُونَ فَضْلًۭا مِّنَ ٱللَّهِ وَرِضْوَٰنًۭا ۖ سِيمَاهُمْ فِى وُجُوهِهِم مِّنْ أَثَرِ ٱلسُّجُودِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ مَثَلُهُمْ فِى ٱلتَّوْرَىٰةِ ۚ وَمَثَلُهُمْ فِى ٱلْإِنجِيلِ كَزَرْعٍ أَخْرَجَ شَطْـَٔهُۥ فَـَٔازَرَهُۥ فَٱسْتَغْلَظَ فَٱسْتَوَىٰ عَلَىٰ سُوقِهِۦ يُعْجِبُ ٱلزُّرَّاعَ لِيَغِيظَ بِهِمُ ٱلْكُفَّارَ ۗ وَعَدَ ٱللَّهُ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ وَعَمِلُوا۟ ٱلصَّٰلِحَٰتِ مِنْهُم مَّغْفِرَةًۭ وَأَجْرًا عَظِيمًۢا
The phrase امَنُوا۟ وَعَمِلُوا۟ ٱلصَّٰلِحَٰتِ has been mentioned in Qur'an exactly 51 times:

The detail about ءَامَنُوا۟ وَعَمِلُوا۟ ٱلصَّٰلِحَٰتِ can be seen at the given links

 

 

 

 

Conclusion:

A person can be a Muslim by accepting and reciting the kalima ie shahdah but to be  momin / believer he/she believes 12 Imams too after the Prophet Muhamamd saww from his pure progeny ie Ah  albayt AS and follow them as per hadith thaqlayn.

 

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On 1/15/2019 at 7:29 PM, skyweb1987 said:

Can we link to find this basis in kalima in any form as confirmation? Would members of ShiaChat like to respond?

There can be multiple ways to conclude this, I like your approach of looking into numbers and letters of the text of kalima. 

However, I would like to address it with a different prospective. And for it I would like to take help of few verses of Qur'an which contains "La ilaha ilallah" & "Muhammadun Rasoolullah":

إِنَّهُمْ كَانُوا إِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لَا إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا اللَّهُ يَسْتَكْبِرُونَ
37:35)  Surely they used to behave proudly when it was said to them: There is no God but Allah;

وَيَقُولُونَ أَئِنَّا لَتَارِكُو آلِهَتِنَا لِشَاعِرٍ مَجْنُونٍ
37:36) And to say: What! shall we indeed give up our gods for the sake of a mad poet?

Here their denial of the messenger & the message is mentioned as proud which is tantamount to kufr. And the reason is given in the following verse:

بَلْ جَاءَ بِالْحَقِّ وَصَدَّقَ الْمُرْسَلِينَ  
37:37)  Nay: he has come with the truth and verified the messengers.

The verification/confirmation of messengers is of importance. Earlier messengers gave glad tidings of the last Prophet and this again shows that these kafireen have denied the messengers and their message. 

Now there indeed important messages given by Prophet Muhammad (S) and that include the message delivered at ghadeer.  That also include the ones where Prophet (S) mentioning his purified household as the bearer of his minniyat. 

مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ۚ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ أَشِدَّاءُ عَلَى الْكُفَّارِ رُحَمَاءُ بَيْنَهُمْ ۖ تَرَاهُمْ رُكَّعًا سُجَّدًا يَبْتَغُونَ فَضْلًا مِنَ اللَّهِ وَرِضْوَانًا ۖ سِيمَاهُمْ فِي وُجُوهِهِمْ مِنْ أَثَرِ السُّجُودِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ مَثَلُهُمْ فِي التَّوْرَاةِ ۚ وَمَثَلُهُمْ فِي الْإِنْجِيلِ
48:29)  Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration; that is their description in the Taurat and their description in the Injeel; 

Interestingly, the above verse mentions that not only the last Prophet was mentioned in the earlier scriptures. There are some others mentioned too as وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ , It is worth noting that how Allah described them in the verse: 

كَزَرْعٍ أَخْرَجَ شَطْأَهُ فَآزَرَهُ فَاسْتَغْلَظَ فَاسْتَوَىٰ عَلَىٰ سُوقِهِ يُعْجِبُ الزُّرَّاعَ لِيَغِيظَ بِهِمُ الْكُفَّارَ
48:29) like as seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the unbelievers on account of them;

Is this not the description of the 12 Imams from Ahlul Bayt (asws)? They are from the same stem I.e., Prophethood And let me relate a hadith here to further explain وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ in light of the above portion of the verse: 

The Holy Prophet (S) has said: Awwalona Muhammad, Ausatona Muhammad, Aakhirona Muhammad (First of us is Muhammad, Middle of us is Muhammad, Last of us is Muhammad). 

Edited by Salsabeel
typo
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Also the ayah mentioning 'Aaleen' in which Allah is asking shaitan if he is among the 'aaleen'

أَمْ كُنتَ مِنَ الْعَالِينَ

This ayah number is 75 which is 7+5=12 and this part of ayah that I mentioned above has 14 letters.

Also note surah is 38 and ayah is 75 so 3+8+7+5=23=2+3=5

5,12,14 :-)

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44 minutes ago, Asghar Ali Karbalai said:

Also the ayah mentioning 'Aaleen' in which Allah is asking shaitan if he is among the 'aaleen'

أَمْ كُنتَ مِنَ الْعَالِينَ

This ayah number is 75 which is 7+5=12 and this part of ayah that I mentioned above has 14 letters.

Also note surah is 38 and ayah is 75 so 3+8+7+5=23=2+3=5

5,12,14 :-)

5+12+14 = 31 baskin robbins flavors. Baskin Robbins must be holy.

in all seriousness, do you guys really think these math tricks have any divine purpose?

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4 hours ago, 786:) said:

5+12+14 = 31 baskin robbins flavors. Baskin Robbins must be holy.

in all seriousness, do you guys really think these math tricks have any divine purpose?

Astaghfirullah rabbi wa atoobo illay!!

if you can only bring ignorance maybe it’s better to not comment at all.

what do you gain? Other than trifling 

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22 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

There can be multiple ways to conclude this, I like your approach of looking into numbers and letters of the text of kalima. 

However, I would like to address it with a different prospective. And for it I would like to take help of few verses of Qur'an which contains "La ilaha ilallah" & "Muhammadun Rasoolullah":

إِنَّهُمْ كَانُوا إِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لَا إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا اللَّهُ يَسْتَكْبِرُونَ
37:35)  Surely they used to behave proudly when it was said to them: There is no God but Allah;

وَيَقُولُونَ أَئِنَّا لَتَارِكُو آلِهَتِنَا لِشَاعِرٍ مَجْنُونٍ
37:36) And to say: What! shall we indeed give up our gods for the sake of a mad poet?

Here their denial of the messenger & the message is mentioned as proud which is tantamount to kufr. And the reason is given in the following verse:

بَلْ جَاءَ بِالْحَقِّ وَصَدَّقَ الْمُرْسَلِينَ  
37:37)  Nay: he has come with the truth and verified the messengers.

The verification/confirmation of messengers is of importance. Earlier messengers gave glad tidings of the last Prophet and this again shows that these kafireen have denied the messengers and their message. 

Now there indeed important messages given by Prophet Muhammad (S) and that include the message delivered at ghadeer.  That also include the ones where Prophet (S) mentioning his purified household as the bearer of his minniyat. 

مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ۚ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ أَشِدَّاءُ عَلَى الْكُفَّارِ رُحَمَاءُ بَيْنَهُمْ ۖ تَرَاهُمْ رُكَّعًا سُجَّدًا يَبْتَغُونَ فَضْلًا مِنَ اللَّهِ وَرِضْوَانًا ۖ سِيمَاهُمْ فِي وُجُوهِهِمْ مِنْ أَثَرِ السُّجُودِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ مَثَلُهُمْ فِي التَّوْرَاةِ ۚ وَمَثَلُهُمْ فِي الْإِنْجِيلِ
48:29)  Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration; that is their description in the Taurat and their description in the Injeel; 

Interestingly, the above verse mentions that not only the last Prophet was mentioned in the earlier scriptures. There are some others mentioned too as وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ , It is worth noting that how Allah described them in the verse: 

كَزَرْعٍ أَخْرَجَ شَطْأَهُ فَآزَرَهُ فَاسْتَغْلَظَ فَاسْتَوَىٰ عَلَىٰ سُوقِهِ يُعْجِبُ الزُّرَّاعَ لِيَغِيظَ بِهِمُ الْكُفَّارَ
48:29) like as seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the unbelievers on account of them;

Is this not the description of the 12 Imams from Ahlul Bayt (asws)? They are from the same stem I.e., Prophethood And let me relate a hadith here to further explain وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ in light of the above portion of the verse: 

The Holy Prophet (S) has said: Awwalona Muhammad, Ausatona Muhammad, Aakhirona Muhammad (First of us is Muhammad, Middle of us is Muhammad, Last of us is Muhammad). 

Yes beautiful! I was trying to express the same thing with the Hadith of first, middle and last being Muhammed(SAWS), you did a better job haha :-)

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14 hours ago, 786:) said:

5+12+14 = 31 baskin robbins flavors. Baskin Robbins must be holy.

in all seriousness, do you guys really think these math tricks have any divine purpose?

I don't understand why are 'you people' on shiachat in the first place just to show your displeasure with Shias and to take out your frustrations because of the merits and virtues of Aal(asws) e Mohammed(saww).

You are disregarding this maths and you yourself have set your name as 786 (numerics of Bismillahir rahmanir raheem).

Lol. How Ironic.

Edited by Asghar Ali Karbalai
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15 hours ago, 786:) said:

in all seriousness, do you guys really think these math tricks have any divine purpose?

There are three aspects we can see from Qur'an:

1. the translation of Arabic scripture of verse of Qur'an 

2. The background hadith for the verse of Qur'an and the third

3. The programmed structure of Arabic text in numerical form.

I have been researching the above for most of the verses of Qur'an and I have  found without any ambiguity that the verses of Qur'an do expose the correlation with the Ahl alabayt as of the Prophet Muhamamd saww based on the hadith thaqlayn.

The following link may be seen for further details:

wasalam

Edited by skyweb1987
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