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Shias are people of ta'weel (تَأْوِيل)

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"Shias are people of ta'weel (تَأْوِيل)."

Those who say this, present a verse of Qur'an too:

فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاءَ الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاءَ تَأْوِيلِهِ ۗ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلَّا اللَّهُ
3:7 (then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah)

Do you agree or disagree with this statement? What are the reasons of your agreement or disagreement? 

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Salaam brother, 

The verse is incomplete and gives wrong meaning. 

Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 7:
هُوَ الَّذِي أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُّحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاءَ الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاءَ تَأْوِيلِهِ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلَّا اللَّهُ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِّنْ عِندِ رَبِّنَا وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلَّا أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ

He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.
(English - Shakir)

 

وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ - And those firmly rooted in knowledge - refers to Aimma (ams). 

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2 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

And those firmly rooted in knowledge - refers to Aimma (ams). 

I am 100% agreed with you here. Because there should be nothing as "mutashabeh" for Prophet & his Ahlul Bayt (asws).

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In the Qur'an muhkum are clear verses but the Mushabehat are for us . The verses which no one can understand except the Prophet Muhammad saww and Imams from his progeny.

These Mutshabehat verses have been kept in Qur'an so that no one can else make the claim of Salooni saloni qabl un tafqedooni (Ask whatever you intend to know before you cannot find me) except Imams.

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@Salsabeel @skyweb1987

Questions:

1. How do we distinguish Mohkam and Mutashabeh verses? Any hadith? 

2. Does a verse appearing as simple, decisive (Mohkam) have different interpretation and be a Mutashabeh verse? 

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1 minute ago, Sirius_Bright said:

@Salsabeel @skyweb1987

Questions:

1. How do we distinguish Mohkam and Mutashabeh verses? Any hadith? 

2. Does a verse appearing as simple, decisive (Mohkam) have different interpretation and be a Mutashabeh verse? 

1. Verses where clear command of doing something or prohibiting something is present are the Mohkam verses, for instance verses containing commands "aqeemus-salat" , "wala taqrabuz-zina", "maa aatakumur rasoolo fakhuduhu" etc. Mutashabeh verses are those who speaks about some people or events or acts which are not mentioning commands etc are called mutashabeh verses. A big portion of Qur'an is mutashabeh for us including the huroof e muqatta'at but nothing including the huroof e muqatta'at are mutashabeh for Prophet (S) and his Ahlul Bayt (asws). 

2. I think it is possible but I am not sure. Why I think it is possible because we always need the sunnah & seerat of Prophet (S) and his Ahlul Bayt (asws) for understanding and interpreting the verses of Qur'an.
 

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6 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

@Salsabeel @skyweb1987

Questions:

1. How do we distinguish Mohkam and Mutashabeh verses? Any hadith? 

2. Does a verse appearing as simple, decisive (Mohkam) have different interpretation and be a Mutashabeh verse? 

The following links may be informative for you in this regard:

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Muhkam_and_Mutashabih

http://www.shiavault.com/books/ijtihad-its-meaning-sources-beginnings-and-the-practice-of-ra-y/chapters/7-the-qur-an-on-muhkamat-and-mutashabihat

https://www.al-Islam.org/message-thaqalayn/vol-16-no-2-summer-2015/unclear-mutashabih-verses-according-ibn-shahr-ashub-0

Edited by skyweb1987

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On 1/14/2019 at 12:48 PM, skyweb1987 said:

In the Qur'an muhkum are clear verses but the Mushabehat are for us . The verses which no one can understand except the Prophet Muhammad saww and Imams from his progeny.

These Mutshabehat verses have been kept in Qur'an so that no one can else make the claim of Salooni saloni qabl un tafqedooni (Ask whatever you intend to know before you cannot find me) except Imams.

Only Imam Ali(عليه السلام) has the title salooni

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6 hours ago, Ralvi said:

Only Imam Ali(عليه السلام) has the title salooni

All of them are the possessors of Minmber-e-Salooni. It is a different matter that out of 12 only 1 has said salooni. You should note it that in the life time of Prophet Muhammad (S), Imam Ali (asws) never said salooni. This is called "Hifz-e-Maratib" in our language. 

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19 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

All of them are the possessors of Minmber-e-Salooni. It is a different matter that out of 12 only 1 has said salooni. You should note it that in the life time of Prophet Muhammad (S), Imam Ali (asws) never said salooni. This is called "Hifz-e-Maratib" in our language. 

Yes he never said salooni, because every one goes to him as he is only salooni, so of course he would not say salooni

I forget which Imam(عليه السلام) but they also acknowledged that the status of Salooni only belongs to Imam Ali(عليه السلام). Meaning all Imams go to Imam Ali(عليه السلام). Maybe I have the word wrong, but only he is the one should come to answer all questions. I think 

Imam Ja’far Sadiq (عليه السلام) says that he didn’t understand or truly comprehend Sayeda Fatima Zehra(SA). So imagine one who is partner to her.

I believe even Imams have ranks. But that’s only between them. They are our masters no doubt. And are the ones we turn to for seeratul mustaqeem. They always in ranks narrate upon Imam Ali as their legitimate backing too

I don’t know if I got that across right. I know this from a lecture (Urdu lecture) I heard couple months ago

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1 hour ago, Ralvi said:

I believe even Imams have ranks. But that’s only between them. They are our masters no doubt. And are the ones we turn to for seeratul mustaqeem. They always in ranks narrate upon Imam Ali as their legitimate backing too

A hadith says: Awwalona Muhammad, Ausatona Muhammad, Aakhirona Muhammad, Kullona Muhammad. Everyone of them is the bearer of the minniyat of Prophet (S). There can be ranks but those are because of and related to their relationship within this world and in the Aalam-e-Noor (Prior to this world). 

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6 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

A hadith says: Awwalona Muhammad, Ausatona Muhammad, Aakhirona Muhammad, Kullona Muhammad. Everyone of them is the bearer of the minniyat of Prophet (S). There can be ranks but those are because of and related to their relationship within this world and in the Aalam-e-Noor (Prior to this world). 

Ill try to find the video, maybe we can have a nice discussion. My Urdu is not the best haha

and if course all of our masters bear the minniyat of Rasoolullah(SAAWS) no doubt, no doubt I agree with what you have said 

Edited by Ralvi

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@Salsabeel and @skyweb1987

okay! So I found out...I used the wrong completely! Hahha

I did not mean Salooni, that’s correct That is to all of our Imams. I believe I was using the wrong word there. Even I was like hmm that’s probably not the right word, but I was confident in my memory. But memory means nothing If you’re an idiot lol

rather I meant, Imam Ali(عليه السلام) is the only khalim e Iman(?) or is it Imam(?)

sab salooni salooni hein

I triple checked with my mother she got so mad lol 

please mother can’t you take it easy, I’ll go to hell if you’re angry :( :accident:

im still learning

:book:   

:NH:

 

Edited by Ralvi

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8 hours ago, Ralvi said:

@Salsabeel and @skyweb1987

okay! So I found out...I used the wrong completely! Hahha

I did not mean Salooni, that’s correct That is to all of our Imams. I believe I was using the wrong word there. Even I was like hmm that’s probably not the right word, but I was confident in my memory. But memory means nothing If you’re an idiot lol

rather I meant, Imam Ali(عليه السلام) is the only khalim e Iman(?) or is it Imam(?)

sab salooni salooni hein

Imam Ali AS is known as "Kule Eman" ) (Complete Believe) the title given by the Prophet Muhamamd saww at the battle of Ahzab ie khandeq.

"Sab Imam  mimbere Salooni ky waris hen". 

سب امام منبر سلونی کے وارث ہیں

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2 hours ago, skyweb1987 said:

Imam Ali AS is known as "Kule Eman" ) (Complete Believe) the title given by the Prophet Muhamamd saww at the battle of Ahzab ie khandeq.

"Sab Imam  mimbere Salooni ky waris hen". 

سب امام منبر سلونی کے وارث ہیں

Oh yes! That’s the word! 

I even spelled it wrong....

:blush:

thank you! And yes subhanallah to everything you’ve said! 

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