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how do Shia feel about the nation of Islam

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3 minutes ago, Murtaza1 said:

Personally I don't put much weight on it. I recently had an encounter with a follower of Nation of Islam on the street and he was very rude to me. For him it represents Africa and African American's.

So I guess it’s a race thing?

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6 minutes ago, Ralvi said:

So I guess it’s a race thing?

they're a sect for people of black African descent 

Edited by yusuf44a
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Let me tell you a few things my fellow brethren, the Nation of Islam, yes today it means nothing to me, but let me inform you of a few facts, the Nation of Islam appeared at a time when the African man in America, the descendants of slaves in America called African-Americans were in a need of redemption and hope. They were in a need of rejuvenation. They were in a need of faith. They needed a vehicle with which to cling to at that time so they could once again remember who they are, where they come from and where they are going as an African people in America. It was the Nation of Islam that gave them that regardless of their cookoo ideas about religious doctrines in relation to Islam proper. Do not forget my fellow brothers that even Sunnism is a corruption of the faith that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) bestowed upon thee through the house he left behind. the black man, since I am black and African, needed to connect with his God and his soul. I know how it feels to hate oneself because the anti-black reality that has been created around you has been created so that one may destroy himself and everybody around him so long as they are not white but black. Make no mistake, institutionalised racism is not about calling a person a "[Edited Out]" or a in my beautiful native South Africa a "kaffir" and leaving it there. It is not just emotional or physical but psychological as well. psychological so that the white man no longer has to physically beat you himself or call you names so that YOU AS A BLACK MAN CAN BEAT YOURSELF DOWN ALMOST LITERALLY AND BEAT OTHER BLACK PEOPLE DOWN NOT JUST PHYSICALLY BUT IN THE WAY BLACK PEOPLE RELATE TO EACH OTHER.

White people call Africans in my country "monkeys" and they are right to call us "monkeys" because they were so successful in breeding self-hate in almost each and every one of us that we believe that the meaning of life is to emulate the white man in everything we do. We speak like him, we dress like him, we want to drive the same cars as him and we believe as long as the white man is near us everything will be okay. 

This is the type of rubbish that the Nation of Islam intended to destroy in the African-American because there are lot of similarities between African-Americans and Africans of South Africa. Malcolm X once said to the black man: YOU ARE DEAD TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF YOUR God, YOU ARE DEAD TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF YOURSELVES AND THAT THE WHITE MAN HAS MADE DEAD SOULS OUT OF YOU AND I. Which is true and you know what the white man has succeeded from here to the great American empire. Everything you see with Black Americans today is exactly what the Nation of Islam fought against. The original nation of Islam. It appeared at a time when the likes OF martin luther king was telling the American Negro to TURN THE OTHER CHEEK TO THE BRUTALITY OF THE WHITE MAN. WHEN MALCOLM X WAS TELLING AMERICAN NEGROES THAT: BROTHER, IF ANYONE LAYS A HAND ON YOU, YOU BEST SEE TO IT THAT HE NEVER LAYS HIS HAND ON ANYONE ELSE AGAIN. The nation of Islam at the time of Malcolm X gave the African-American pride and knowledge about himself irrespective of their deviations from true Islam.

It made the black man a MAN AGAIN SO ALHAMDULILAH FOR THE NATION OF Islam AND FOR MALCOLM X. you must watch the movie directed by Spike Lee featuring DENZEL WASHINGTON AS MALCOLM X FOR A CLEAR PERSPECTIVE. it even saved his life. Malcolm X was a criminal, a derelict, a victim of the american social order before landing in prison and being redeeemed by the honourable Elijah Muhammad. KNOW THE TRUTH!

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1 hour ago, Ralvi said:

So I guess it’s a race thing?

That's what it seems like to me too. Although the man I encountered in the street seemed mentally unstable.

38 minutes ago, Gabenowa said:

the Nation of Islam appeared at a time when the African man in America, the descendants of slaves in America called African-Americans were in a need of redemption and hope. 

White people call Africans in my country "monkeys" and they are right to call us "monkeys" because they were so successful in breeding self-hate in almost each and every one of us that we believe that the meaning of life is to emulate the white man in everything we do. We speak like him, we dress like him, we want to drive the same cars as him and we believe as long as the white man is near us everything will be okay.

you must watch the movie directed by Spike Lee featuring DENZEL WASHINGTON AS MALCOLM X FOR A CLEAR PERSPECTIVE. 

I didn't know that about The Nation of Islam. Sometimes I wonder what the world would be like without oppression if your people and my people did not suffer in Africa, America, Europe and the Indian Subcontinent. We need to think outside the box and stop emulating ourselves on popular culture and media because those are their latest tools to control and condition us.

I like Denzel Washington as an actor. Although I am not so much of a fan of Spike Lee. I know he worked with Michael Jackson and Janet Jackson so it's a little difficult for me to take him seriously as a man with serious political ideas. However I'm sure his documentary on Malcolm X must be very interesting.

Edited by Murtaza1

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7 minutes ago, Murtaza1 said:

That's what it seems like to me too. Although the man I encountered in the street seemed mentally unstable.

I didn't know that about The Nation of Islam. Sometimes I wonder what the world would be like without oppression if your people and my people did not suffer in Africa, America, Europe and the Indian Subcontinent. We need to think outside the box and stop emulating ourselves on popular culture and media because those are their latest tools to control and condition us.

I like Denzel Washington as an actor. Although I am not so much of a fan of Spike Lee. I know he worked with Michael Jackson and Janet Jackson so it's a little difficult for me to take him seriously as a man with serious political ideas. However I'm sure his documentary on Malcolm X must be very interesting.

No no brother, its not a documentary. ITS A MOVIE! AND DENZEL is so brilliant you would think that he is Malcolm X. Malcolm X later left the Nation of Islam. He was a man of truth, he died for it. He went on the hajj to Mecca, he was shocked meeting Muslims who were white, meeting white Muslims who didnt have any prejudice whatsoever that the whole experience of circling the black rock of Ibrahim (عليه السلام) with Muslims from Africa, India as well as I guess chechnya and bosnia Muslims with blonde hair and blue eyes made him come back home to America and leave the Nation of Islam. HE no longer believed that hating the white man was the answer and came to regret his words of hate against every white person. They killed him. Both the Nation of Islam and the FBI cooperated in killing him because unity is a threat to those with power. I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT HAD MALCOLM X lived long enough to discover Shia Islam AND Imam Ali (SALAWAT) HE WOULD HAVE BEEN REVERTED TO THE TRUE FAITH. Malcolm X always inspired me to be a Muslim. because I don’t ever want to die for money or prestige. but anyday anytime anywhere I will die for the truth. because EL-HAJJ-MALIK EL SHABAZZ (the name he took after his pilgrimage) taught me that it is better to die for the truth rather than live for lies.

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MALCOLM X'S letter from Mecca:

Never have I witnessed such sincere hospitality and true brotherhood as is practiced by people of all colours and races here in this ancient Holy land, the home of Ibrahim, Muhammad and all the other Prophets of the Holy scriptures (MAY PEACE BE UPON THEM)

For the past week I have been humbled by the graciousness displayed by all people from all races.

I have been blessed to visit the holy city of Mecca, I have been blessed to make the seven circuits around the ka'aba, I drank water from the well of ZAM ZAM, I ran seven times between the hills of mount Al-Safa and Al-Marwah. I prayed at the ancient city of Mina and prayed on Mount Arafat.

There were tens of thousands of pilgrims from all over the world. They were from all colours, from blue-eyed blondes to black Africans.But we were all displaying the same rituals, displaying a spirit of unity and brotherhood that my experiences in America had led me to believe that such unity was impossible between white and non-white. 

AMERICA NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND Islam, BECAUSE THIS IS THE ONE RELIGION THAT SOLVES THE RACE PROBLEM. Through out my travels in the Muslim world I have met and talked to, prayed with, eaten from the same plate and drunk water from the same glass with people whose hair was the most blonde I have ever seen and whose eyes were the bluest I had ever seen and whose skin colour was the whitest I had ever seen. The prejudice was removed from their minds by the religion of Islam and never did I experience true brotherhood and sincerity irrespective of skin colour.

You may be shocked by these words but on this pilgrimage what I have seen and experienced has forced me to re-arrange some of my thought patterns and throw away some previously held conclusions. I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A MAN WHO ACCEPTED FACTS AND FACE NEW REALITIES AS THEY UNFOLDED. 

I have always kept an open mind which is necessary to the flexibility that must go hand in hand with every form of INTELLIGENT SEARCH FOR TRUTH.

We were trully all the same (brothers) because their belief in ONE God had removed the white from their minds, the white from their behaviour and the white from their attitude. Each hour in the HOLY LAND enables me to have greater spiritual insights into what is happening in America between black and white. The American Negro can never be blamed for his racial anger because he is only reacting to four hundred years of conscious intentional racism on the part of white america.

I believe from my experiences with them that the younger generation of whites will see the handwriting on the walls and many of them will turn to the spiritual path of the truth OTHERWISE AMERICA WILL DESTROY ITSELF THROUGH RACISM JUST AS GERMANY DESTROYED ITSELF THROUGH KILLING JEWS.

ALL PRAISE IS DUE TO Allah, THE LORD OF ALL THE WORLDS BUT THE MISTAKES ARE MINE AND MINE ALONE.

EL HAJJ MALIK EL SHABAZZ (MALCOLM X) letter from Mecca

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2 hours ago, Gabenowa said:

I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT HAD MALCOLM X lived long enough to discover Shia Islam AND Imam Ali (SALAWAT) HE WOULD HAVE BEEN REVERTED TO THE TRUE FAITH.

�ت�ج� تص��ر� برا� �son of ,malcolm x��

Salam/hi his son completed his job but martyred mysteriously in Mexico

"If you want to know anything, then go back to the source," he told us, which is what we did, reviewing his long, twisted journey to Mecca.

As the oldest male heir to Malcolm X, Shabazz was born into a fascinating family. Media accounts have documented him as a troubled young man, shuttled back and forth among family members. Like his grandfather, he spent time on the streets and in jail. Like his grandfather, it was behind bars that he finally regained his faith and found himself fully immersed in Islam. Shabazz explains that while he was born into Islam, he finally began to fee its presence in his life during his most recent incarceration period. While quarantined in Attica Correctional Facility in New York, Shabazz explained that he "didn't have any hygiene supplies, I didn't have any reading materials."

But it was during his time in Attica that he met another prisoner — half Mexican, half Iranian — who identified himself as a Shia Muslim. "He asked me 'Are you in a lie? Or are you a real Muslim?' " Shabazz recalled. He answered that he was a real Muslim. "He gave me reading materials to read in my cell."

According to Shabazz, this was the man who discussed and poured over religious texts with him during their time together, and the one who inspired him to convert from the Sunni sect to Shia.

"I was raised a Sunni, everyone in my family was Sunni," he said. There is much antagonism between the two sects, so his conversion caused a backlash akin to when his grandfather left the Nation of Islam in 1964 and declared himself a Sunni, which let to his assassination the following year.

Once he returned to the United States, Shabazz decided to follow his grandfather's footsteps and make the pilgrimage to Mecca, where, he said "the air felt different." But he also explained how the people he saw on the pilgrimage seemed less willing to impose their rules on Americans.

"It seems like they have more fear [of] Americans than they do for Allah," he said. "If they know you're American, I don't know what it is, but they leave you alone."

Shabazz said he had the experience of a lifetime and proved his intense vigor for the Islamic faith. He circled the Kaa'ba, and despite swollen feet and a bad case of the flu, carried on his pilgrimage like a true believer. "I never saw this many people at one place at one time. It was much more of a struggle than I had anticipated," he said. "But everything was earned."



When word spread of Shabazz's conversion, various Sunni leaders and community members expressed their discomfort with what he had done. He explained that many people wrote to him asking him, "How could you become a Shia?"

After his release, Shabazz decided to move to Syria to study at an Islamic institute and then spent the following eight months teaching English to children. "I came home from prison [and] I wanted to get away for a little while," he explained.

https://www.nairaland.com/1165217/malcom-xs-grandson-turns-Sunni

Malcolm Shabazz Speaks at Saba Islamic Center's Husayn Day Peace Walk in Oakland

https://hah.life/video/yIhowxrdZuwo/-/Malcolm Shabazz Speaks at Saba Islamic Center's Husayn Day Peace Walk in Oakland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Shabazz

Malcolm Shabazz, Grandson of Malcolm X, Killed in Mexico

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/10/10/mexico-malcolmxgrandson/17015355/

https://atlantablackstar.com/2013/05/10/malcolm-shabazz-grandson-of-malcolm-x-killed-in-mexico/

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/21/malcolm-x-anniversary-legacy-Islam-ideals-humility

�ت�ج� تص��ر� برا� �son of ,malcolm x��

مالکوم شباز

 

مالکوم شباز

مالکوم شباز به همراه دوست ایرانیش محسنی در حسینیه شیعیان

Malcom Shahbaz with his Iranian friend Mohseni in Husayniyya  of Shias 

he had a visit in Medina with Sheikh Ali_al-'Amri  http://en.wikishia.net/view/Muhammad_'Ali_al-'Amri

http://rahyafteha.ir/3553/

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1570656?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

Sheik Amri (رضي الله عنه) Shia Scholar, Madina

Khalid Yasin - About the Nation of Islam & Farakhan (Nation of Islam from Wahhabi view)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHhM7QAi9xU

https://prezi.com/bqyjf6odopiv/nation-of-Islam-how-does-it-differ-from-the-Sunnis-and-Shia/

 

Reborn - I converted from Nation of Islam to Shia - Marquel Mohammed

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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Nation of Islam aren’t Muslim by faith. They hold some Muslim principles only.

And they engaged in killing many Black American Muslim thinkers than the CIA did. They also engaged in terrorizing and doing immoral actions in the Black community in order for people to fear opposing them or having different thoughts. 

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2 minutes ago, BowTie said:

Nation of Islam aren’t Muslim by faith. They hold some Muslim principles only.

And they engaged in killing many Black American Muslim thinkers than the CIA did. They also engaged in terrorizing and doing immoral actions in the Black community in order for people to fear opposing them or having different thoughts. 

I can sense that. I don’t understand why people are so fascinated by western people such as Malcolm X especially Muslims. 

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Nation of Islam is not a Muslim sect, but a hybrid religion largely based on Islam. As I understand their teachings, they are racist, but I've only met a few followers and they were friendly to me. One woman even invited me to attend mosque services with her. (Maybe she didn't realize I am white, or maybe they are less racist than I've been told.) 

It started as more of a social movement in response to years of oppression than as a pure religion. I suspect their views have become more moderate over time, as the social situation has evolved. 

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2 hours ago, Murtaza1 said:

I can sense that. I don’t understand why people are so fascinated by western people such as Malcolm X especially Muslims. 

Malcolm X was killed by Nation of Islam. And he is a great Muslim leader that had the most difficult job in the world probably.

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Nation of Islam was created by the FBI to try to curb the influence of Martin Luther King, Jr. and his movement.

Basically split up the black community.

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4 hours ago, Murtaza1 said:

I can sense that. I don’t understand why people are so fascinated by western people such as Malcolm X especially Muslims. 

You need to really know the man before coming to a conclusion about him. and he was from a different era in a different time. Learn to appreciate CONTEXT. Look up the word in the dictionary if you don’t understand CONTEXT. Sometimes in this life, its not about being 100% correct on religious texts and judging everything and everyone based on literal interpretations of the holy scriptures but understanding events and people within the CONTEXT of everything. I would expect more from you, being that you were born into a faith that makes JUSTICE the centre of its creed within the historical CONTEXT of past events such as the tragedy of Karbala and the brutal murders of Imam Ali and Hussayn (peace be upon them) and everything that has happened from then on. The brutal murders of Shia human beings to this day. Learn to think, because as much as I am nobody, one thing I know about Islam that is referred to as "Shi'ism" is that you need TO BE ABLE TO THINK AND CONTEXTUALISE IN ORDER TO APPRECIATE THE FAITH. My goodness, Ignorance doesnt suit you personally or as a fervent man of your faith that you like to present yourself as.

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3 hours ago, notme said:

Nation of Islam is not a Muslim sect, but a hybrid religion largely based on Islam. As I understand their teachings, they are racist, but I've only met a few followers and they were friendly to me. One woman even invited me to attend mosque services with her. (Maybe she didn't realize I am white, or maybe they are less racist than I've been told.) 

It started as more of a social movement in response to years of oppression than as a pure religion. I suspect their views have become more moderate over time, as the social situation has evolved. 

Since you are white as you say LET ME EDUCATE YOU ON SOMETHING. BLACK PEOPLE WHEREVER THEY ARE ON THIS EVIL PLANET ARE NOT AND CAN NEVER BE RACIST. A ZANJ can only be PREJUDICE AGAINST ANY HUMAN BEING FROM ANY RACE WHO EXERCISES RACISM AGAINST A BLACK PERSON BECAUSE IT IS FASHIONABLE TO DO SO. MORE TO THE POINT, BLACK PEOPLE, IN AFRICA AND ALL OVER THIS EVIL PLANET WHERE THEY RESIDE AS THE DESCENDANTS OF SLAVES ARE ONLY PREJUDICE BECAUSE THEY REACT TO A THOUSAND YEARS OF OPPRESSION BY SPECIFICALLY THE WHITE MAN BUT NOT HIM ALONE. AFRICANS ALONG WITH THEIR PROGENY WORLDWIDE ARE NOT, HAVE NEVER BEEN AND WILL NEVER BE RACIST. IF YOU UNDERSTOOD AFRICAN CULTURE, YOU'D UNDERSTAND RACISM IS NOT A PART OF THE UNIVERSAL CULTURE INHERENT IN EVERY BLACK AFRICAN HUMAN BEING.

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@Gabenowa my apologies, it wasn't my intention to be insensitive. What word should I use instead to indicate a feeling that their "race" is superior to any other? 

 

Also, [moderator note:] please note that posting in all caps is against forum rules and policies. You can use capitalization for emphasis, but please use it in moderation. Thanks. 

 

Edited by notme

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5 hours ago, Murtaza1 said:

I can sense that. I don’t understand why people are so fascinated by western people such as Malcolm X especially Muslims. 

The same reason as they are fascinated by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. or Mahatma Ghandi - because they sought to lift their people out of tyranny. Their difference in religious views is unimportant in the context of heroism, or at least the heroism overcomes the difference. 

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1 hour ago, notme said:

@Gabenowa my apologies, it wasn't my intention to be insensitive. What word should I use instead to indicate a feeling that their "race" is superior to any other? 

 

Also, [moderator note:] please note that posting in all caps is against forum rules and policies. You can use capitalization for emphasis, but please use it in moderation. Thanks. 

 

The views about the superiority of the "black man" by the Nation of Islam was just a knee-jerk reaction against white racism in the United States. They wanted to respond to hate with hate. respond with "superiority" to "superiority". Thats why Malcolm left the Nation of Islam. His presence and performance of Hajj opened his eyes to the truth. He realised that respond with hate to hate was a road to nothingness. Hence on his return from Saudi Arabia he made this statement:

I am not a racist 

In the past I permitted myself to be used to make sweeping indictments of all white people, the entire white race and these generalisations have caused injuries to some whites who perhaps did not deserve to be hurt.

Because of the spiritual enlightment which I was blessed to receive as the result of my recent pilgrimage to the Holy City of Mecca, I no longer subscribe to sweeping indictments of any one race.

I am now striving to live the life of a true Sunni Muslim. I must repeat that I am not a racist nor do I subscribe to the tenets of racism.

I can state in all sincerity that I wish nothing but freedom, justice and equality, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all people."

 

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1 hour ago, BowTie said:

 

They believed that those who express hate of black people like the Ku klux klan are the honest whites because they don’t pretend. Malcolm and the Nation of Islam at the time believed that the solution to the race problem in America was wholesale separation of black and white completely. Mecca ofcourse changed all of that.

In South Africa, English-speaking people are the most polite human beings, incredibly polite. They are the descendants of people from England. But that also makes them the most dangerous creatures on earth. Their hate is hidden behind smiles. An English-man can shake your hand and then go wash his hands behind your back because as a black African I am "filfthy". They never keep promises, business that is, they never tell the truth. They are manipulative, all the while never losing his or her charm, and they can really really use a human being then discard you like trash once they are done with you. The white english-speaking girls will only date black men even marry black men if she can see that she can use his esteemed elite status in society to further advance herself.

the descendants of Dutch people in South Africa, they call themselves "AFRIKANERS" meaning White African, are like the Ku Klux klan. Their hate and violence against black people is vicious and brutal. Really really brutal. But atleast you know where you stand with the Afrikaner. He never lies, never pretends and he keeps his word. If you engage in business with him, you know he will keep his side of the bargain. But also when he is not racist, you know it is genuine because their kindness and smiles are truly genuine. These Afrikaners do not pretend. If he hates you he really hates you, and if he loves you as an equal human being then his love and genuine humanity can be amazing. 

Thats what Malcolm saw in the KKK. Genuine white men whose hate was not pretentious and they could come to an agreement.

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But racism and whatever else, slavery and colonialism, does not detract from the fact that every Black African, whether in Africa or not, is a human being like anyone else. Capable of manipulating "vitctimhood" to serve an evil agenda. Like every human being, a Zanj is an individual and should be judged according to his individual characteristics. In essence, he or she should be judged according to his or her essence. Some Africans are capable of manipulating the sad history of racism to serve their own hidden agendas. You see it with what the Nation of Islam has become today. You saw it with Barack Hussein Obama. They threw a black face on the American Empire and some of us (me included) got fooled while nothing changed. They under his direction bombed and increased brutal drone strikes on innocent civilians. He bombed Libya under the pretext of "democracy" and destroyed that country completely even though he was warned by African governments to not do that because the consequences would be civil war. Thats the problem of racism, it allows evil black men to flourish.

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29 minutes ago, Gabenowa said:

The views about the superiority of the "black man" by the Nation of Islam was just a knee-jerk reaction against white racism in the United States. They wanted to respond to hate with hate. respond with "superiority" to "superiority".

That would explain my experience. I had always been told that NOI teachings said that all white people are evil and not to be trusted, but my experience with individual people caused me to doubt what I've been told. I've seen only people who were welcoming and friendly toward me and my children. (My experience is limited, of course, but it is what it is.)

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27 minutes ago, notme said:

That would explain my experience. I had always been told that NOI teachings said that all white people are evil and not to be trusted, but my experience with individual people caused me to doubt what I've been told. I've seen only people who were welcoming and friendly toward me and my children. (My experience is limited, of course, but it is what it is.)

I have seen innocent white people in my country get hurt and they did not deserve to be hurt at all. I've witnessed white people speak out against injustice and they are told to "shut up" because they don’t know what they are talking about. I've had school mates who were white, but they were so pure, so genuine as human beings that I stopped seeing the "white" on them. I saw genuine human beings. I have witnessed white kids suffer psychological break downs because they turned against the hate that their parents taught them. Turning against your own parents, I know from personal experience, turning against creeds and teachings which are plainly wrong can have devastating consequences for the psyche. That's why the NOI  is redundant today. It means nothing. Times have changed, Times will always change. Yesterdays truths are todays lies. Yesterdays lies are todays truths.

But the words of Imam Ali(peace be upon him) I am realising as I study them eveyday defy time and space. They are timeless. They are not archaic meaning their truth does not expire or become victim to the ever changing realities of time. But certain human beings like Malcolm X were the heroes and the victims of their own times and who can judge them? They were mere human beings who knew that their time was limited and would not even live to see their children graduate from high school. That time is gone as time operates no other way. What is needed is pure truth, truth that cannot be a victim of time and space. Truths that are forever.

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