Marriage centers in the West

[ali_fatheroforphans]

Salam,

Especially for the Muslims living in the West, there is a big problem in terms of finding a suitable spouse. Marriage is a life commitment, and it really requires a lot of research, if we want to grow and not simply survive. There are great people in the world, but having a service which helps two mu'min get together and live a healthy marriage, is an absolute must in the West.

Parents often feel the need to do all the work, and they are trying their best mashallah. However their judgement is not always correct. Our parents don't necessarily know us as well as we know ourselves. Them hunting for a spouse is not going to guarantee success, although It could. Muslims who live in the West wouldn't always want to go back and marry a spouse from the East, and there could be many reasons such as compatability.

Therefore the solution to all this is having an official marriage service. The center shouldn't only randomly match two people, there should be a firm structure and process which is followed.

Relationship counsellors and those who have studied personality psychology, should also be hired by these centers. Getting professional advice from experts can be very helpful, and it's not always about relying on sheikhs. Maybe we could get someone to study our personality in detail, and eventually an expert could decide if we are compatabile with another person.

Also these centers need to hold marriage workshops often and educate the youth in terms of how to live a successful marriage life - their duties, roles and responsibilities.

These are just my personal thoughts on this. We need to make serious changes and take this matter seriously. Let's not always rely on cousin marriages etc. Why have such low expectations?

[Murtaza1]

Walaikum a Salam,

Khoja KSIMC Muslim centres run events for single Shia Muslims brothers and sisters. Its like halal dating for only £5. A sister on Muzmatch told me about this:

https://www.ksmnet.org/sub-committee/marriage/pre-marriage-bmmf

It depends what you are looking for. Alternatively if you are a wealthy professional then there are halal dating services that represent a niche market. Their dating events are held in luxurious venues but they are very expensive and you have to be a wealthy professional and they do not have any Shia candidates on their database. 

May Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى bless you and all brothers and sisters looking for a marriage partner. I hope everybody finds what they are looking for. 

Edited January 13, 2019 by Murtaza1

[2Timeless]

@ali_fatheroforphans doesn't this already exist? Muslim halal dating/matchmaking sites like Muzmatch, Minder, ShiaMatch all provide the service you're talking about.

[Nevsevug]

11 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

@ali_fatheroforphans doesn't this already exist? Muslim halal dating/matchmaking sites like Muzmatch, Minder, ShiaMatch all provide the service you're talking about.

He is talking about creating a more in-depth and certified process. Sites like those don’t always have the nicest people with the best intentions. There is a lot of haram that goes on in these “halal” dating sites. I’ve tried shiamatch and I have friends who’ve tried the other two. Shiamatch is (or was at the time) mainly South Asian men who ignore anything you write about what you’re interested in/are looking for. I’ve also seen people active on it that I 100% know are already in the process of marrying someone else. 

It would make things a lot easier if there was a certified organization that matched people. They could verify the people who are looking to be matched and make sure everyone’s on the same page. It would also be made sure that those going through the process are serious about it and aren’t playing around. These things aren’t always guaranteed online. It’s very easy to fake everything online. 

[ali_fatheroforphans]

On 1/13/2019 at 3:56 PM, 2Timeless said:

@ali_fatheroforphans doesn't this already exist? Muslim halal dating/matchmaking sites like Muzmatch, Minder,

Most of these sites  are garbage from what I've heard. Wouldn't you rather give your personal info etc. To respected people in an organization who you've probs seen.

[Murtaza1]

1 hour ago, Nevsevug said:

It would make things a lot easier if there was a certified organization that matched people.

Yes they exist but are very expensive and cater for a niche market of wealthy professionals. They don't have any Shia candidates on their database and are very selective. I am pleased to say they excepted me.

[2Timeless]

@Nevsevug @ali_fatheroforphans you make valid points. The apps I suggested aren't great and have alot of horrible people on them. But at the same time, having a full on organisation like one you've suggested would take alot of time and effort and would need alot of funding. Nowadays young Muslims are getting married after meeting at university or work (which I think is alot harder than what people make it out to be) or through mutual  friends etc.  On top of the need for funding, this may be looked down on by certain communities. Yes, younger people might appreciate and like such an organisation, but their parents won't. And as much as I'd like to say "Who cares? As long as the couple are happy everything is fine" That's not how it works. Most mothers want to find the perfect wife for their son themselves. It's almost as if the mother is marrying the bride, not her son. I know it's wrong, but that's just how it is. More often than not, parents may probably look down upon a match made by such an organisation, and even though theyre perfect for eachother, society's views of them will put a strain on their relationship.

[aaljibar]

1 hour ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Most of these sites  are garbage from what I've heard. Wouldn't you rather give your personal info etc. To respected people in an organization who you've probs seen.

We are planning to do one at a centre in Perth called Ahlulbayt Community of Western Australia Insha'Allah.

Edited January 14, 2019 by aaljibar

[Nevsevug]

2 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

@Nevsevug @ali_fatheroforphans you make valid points. The apps I suggested aren't great and have alot of horrible people on them. But at the same time, having a full on organisation like one you've suggested would take alot of time and effort and would need alot of funding. Nowadays young Muslims are getting married after meeting at university or work (which I think is alot harder than what people make it out to be) or through mutual  friends etc.  On top of the need for funding, this may be looked down on by certain communities. Yes, younger people might appreciate and like such an organisation, but their parents won't. And as much as I'd like to say "Who cares? As long as the couple are happy everything is fine" That's not how it works. Most mothers want to find the perfect wife for their son themselves. It's almost as if the mother is marrying the bride, not her son. I know it's wrong, but that's just how it is. More often than not, parents may probably look down upon a match made by such an organisation, and even though theyre perfect for eachother, society's views of them will put a strain on their relationship.

It may take a lot of money, time and effort but it’s something that will greatly benefit our communities. We already have people in the communities who help the youth and their families find suitors, often without. This would just be a larger scale version of that. Also, meeting at university or through friends is a much better idea than these kind of apps. Sure, people meet through the apps and have good marriages but it’s very difficult to find someone trustworthy online. I’d much prefer to marry someone I’ve known or seen around campus and who is known by people around me. Your point that the elders may look down upon this kind of thing isn’t much of a point, really. How can elders be okay with young people meeting at university or online (which happens a lot more nowadays) but not with an actual organization with Shia professionals and elders? Meeting online should be worse in that case, then. A lot of people do not agree with their children marrying anyone they’ve met online and it becomes quite a task to try and talk them into it. 

[Nevsevug]

2 hours ago, Murtaza1 said:

Yes they exist but are very expensive and cater for a niche market of wealthy professionals. They don't have any Shia candidates on their database and are very selective. I am pleased to say they excepted me.

What’s the point of being accepted into a marriage matchmaking program with no Shias(unless you aren’t Shia yourself)? 

We are asking for a program that caters to everyone equally and is specifically for Shia (or even just Muslim) youth. 

[Murtaza1]

21 minutes ago, Nevsevug said:

What’s the point of being accepted into a marriage matchmaking program with no Shias(unless you aren’t Shia yourself)? 

We are asking for a program that caters to everyone equally and is specifically for Shia (or even just Muslim) youth. 

Yes i understand. I am keeping my options open. I know marriages between Sunnis and Shias do work. I also feel i will be playing a positive part to bring the umah together. 

[AStruggler]

Wait what's the difference between a haram dating site and halal dating side? What makes dating halal?

[Murtaza1]

On 1/13/2019 at 10:10 PM, AStruggler said:

Wait what's the difference between a haram dating site and halal dating side? What makes dating halal?

I think its a bit like an arranged marriage maybe where a third person is involved between the two people that assesses their compatibility and brings them together. Also the conditions surrounding the meet up have to be Islamic such as no alcohol or bad intentions

[ali_fatheroforphans]

9 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

That's not how it works. Most mothers want to find the perfect wife for their son themselves. It's almost as if the mother is marrying the bride, not her son. I know it's wrong, but that's just how it is. More often than not, parents may probably look down upon a match made by such an organisation, and even though theyre perfect for eachother, society's views of them will put a strain on their relationship.

Trust me, it's all about how it's marketed. Parents just need to be convinced about the organization and how it could benefit their children. Yes, the issue is that parents want a say in who their children marry. Therefore these organizations should really involve parents and maybe host a couple of sessions with them. If parents feel included and a part of this whole process, they wouldn't have any problem imo.

[2Timeless]

On 1/13/2019 at 10:10 PM, AStruggler said:

Wait what's the difference between a haram dating site and halal dating side? What makes dating halal?

I think 'dating' just getting to know someone for a relationship. In 'halal dating', you're getting to know someone for marriage but without committing haram like flirting etc. That's just my take on it.

[rkazmi33]

It seems like there's no point in looking for a compatible spouse. This video states that if you don't want your spouse to have certain quality, Allah will give you a spouse with that quality. After I got married, I realized that the qualities which I hated were dishonesty, cruelty and promiscuity. And my ex husband had all three qualities. I have not seen a more cruel and promiscuous man and a bigger liar. It seems like even if I tried to get married again, I will end up with similar type of person. My family was a civilized, educated family and they are becoming so backward and cruel. I am autistic and for autistic people, change is not easy to accept. It's also very hard for them to change themselves. Does this mean Islam is not a religion for autistic people? 

[Murtaza1]

@rkazmi33 Thank you for the video. I will have a look. Sorry to hear that you are autistic. I was also told I showed signs of being on the of Asperger's Syndrome spectrum. I think everybody is on the spectrum somewhere but some of us are placed in a rare area which makes us different to most people because the way society operates. I struggle with relationships too. Islam definitely welcomes us all. Just look at the social values taught in Islam. Also sorry to hear about the type of husband you ended up getting married to sister. Maybe I shouldn't be so specific about the character of my wife when I seek marriage but does that also include beauty? I thought we should be considering 3 factors based on personality, deen and beauty with 30% emphasis placed on each. Although personally I put an extra 10% on beauty.

[rkazmi33]

23 hours ago, Murtaza1 said:

@rkazmi33 Thank you for the video. I will have a look. Sorry to hear that you are autistic. I was also told I showed signs of being on the of Asperger's Syndrome spectrum. I think everybody is on the spectrum somewhere but some of us are placed in a rare area which makes us different to most people because the way society operates. I struggle with relationships too. Islam definitely welcomes us all. Just look at the social values taught in Islam. 

I meant to say that it's hard for autistic people to change while the whole point of the video was that Islam wants people to change. 

[arch1027116]

On 1/13/2019 at 4:44 PM, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Salam,

Especially for the Muslims living in the West, there is a big problem in terms of finding a suitable spouse. Marriage is a life commitment, and it really requires a lot of research, if we want to grow and not simply survive. There are great people in the world, but having a service which helps two mu'min get together and live a healthy marriage, is an absolute must in the West.

Parents often feel the need to do all the work, and they are trying their best mashallah. However their judgement is not always correct. Our parents don't necessarily know us as well as we know ourselves. Them hunting for a spouse is not going to guarantee success, although It could. Muslims who live in the West wouldn't always want to go back and marry a spouse from the East, and there could be many reasons such as compatability.

Therefore the solution to all this is having an official marriage service. The center shouldn't only randomly match two people, there should be a firm structure and process which is followed.

Relationship counsellors and those who have studied personality psychology, should also be hired by these centers. Getting professional advice from experts can be very helpful, and it's not always about relying on sheikhs. Maybe we could get someone to study our personality in detail, and eventually an expert could decide if we are compatabile with another person.

Also these centers need to hold marriage workshops often and educate the youth in terms of how to live a successful marriage life - their duties, roles and responsibilities.

These are just my personal thoughts on this. We need to make serious changes and take this matter seriously. Let's not always rely on cousin marriages etc. Why have such low expectations?

This is a wonderful idea and has always been on the back of my mind. Though it seems like a difficult and expensive project, I still think its doable. I see so many of us youth struggling to find a partner especially Shias living outside their home countries since their aren’t enough Shias everywhere and I know people ready to marry a Sunni just because they can’t find a good Shia partner. That is like losing a part of our generation to Sunnis. I think if no one from our generation takes an effort to find a solution to this then our next generation will struggle even more and may marry outside the sect and religion. 

My idea was to create a centralised database of all the eligible people over an app and to get registered on this app you will need to go through your local Islamic center or mosque. This way the people on the app are only verified  people. Also, you can keep a small amount of yearly membership fee in order to keep all the non serious people away. This can be a youth marriage organisation with the same name but branches in major cities of the world like London, New York, Toronto, Dubai, Chicago etc etc. Something like ‘who is Hussain’. We can get volunteers to work in different parts of the world to verify the people and give them a green signal to be on the app. 

Though there’s shiamatch but it is pretty outdated and are a lot of duplicate profiles and people who have already been married but never bothered to deactivate their accounts.

With muzmatch the problem is it has mainly Sunnis and very few Shias.

What do you think of this idea? How do you think we can go about implementing it?

[habib e najjaar]

On 1/19/2019 at 10:47 PM, rkazmi33 said:

It seems like there's no point in looking for a compatible spouse. This video states that if you don't want your spouse to have certain quality, Allah will give you a spouse with that quality. After I got married, I realized that the qualities which I hated were dishonesty, cruelty and promiscuity. And my ex husband had all three qualities. I have not seen a more cruel and promiscuous man and a bigger liar. It seems like even if I tried to get married again, I will end up with similar type of person. My family was a civilized, educated family and they are becoming so backward and cruel. I am autistic and for autistic people, change is not easy to accept. It's also very hard for them to change themselves. Does this mean Islam is not a religion for autistic people? 

I think you should open this up as a separate thread, since if we start responding to this very interesting discussion you have raised, it will deviate from the topic of the OP.

 

As for the OP topic, I think centers will only be as strong as the communities they serve. If we do not have strong communities of Muslims/Shias, we cannot have strong or effective centers to do this job. The centers which are able to organize themselves on non tribal/racial/nationality lines and do things together like organize summer camps for their kids, employment opportunities for their youths, activities for their members, will just as easily and naturally be able to provide a marriage match making service without even necessarily needing to set up a halal dating network.

[Lilly14]

 

On 1/19/2019 at 2:19 PM, Murtaza1 said:

I thought we should be considering 3 factors based on personality, deen and beauty

I've heard something similar. Though I don't know if it's the same criteria for girls selecting spouses.

So I'm also confused why would it be recommended to look for these traits if we are going to be tested with marrying someone whose the opposite of these? 

Is the solution to have only those traits in mind when searching, and when we find someone that matches those, marry them with trust that Allah swa will have found the best person for us?   

Edited November 9, 2019 by Lilly14

[AimanFatema]

Salam everyone.

I know this is an old chat, but are there any updates regarding marriage services for Shias in the west? Does anyone know of any? I am in Australia, but I am willing to explore marriage services in other Western countries as well

[Guest Jafri]

Salam sister,

Although I didn't use the service for long, I found shiaconnections to be exactly the service highlighted in this discussion.

[Guest Raza]

On 11/9/2019 at 9:26 AM, Lilly14 said:

I've heard something similar. Though I don't know if it's the same criteria for girls selecting spouses.

So I'm also confused why would it be recommended to look for these traits if we are going to be tested with marrying someone whose the opposite of these? 

Is the solution to have only those traits in mind when searching, and when we find someone that matches those, marry them with trust that Allah swa will have found the best person for us?   

You have no choice in the matter in a certain sense, considering there's likely at least 1 million potential partners you could marry in the world, from a statistical perspective you would have a 1 in a million chance of choosing the "best" partner (AND THATS A VERY VERY CONSERVATIVE APPROACH! The real chance is likely much lower). So one must supplicate, do tawassul with the ahlulbayt(عليه السلام) and when things seem good both from rational and intuitive perspective, proceed with courage and trust in Allah.

Also for criteria regarding spouses, I found this to be beneficial

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxEMQQlcLC0

[Lilly14]

On 5/6/2020 at 1:29 AM, Guest Raza said:

You have no choice in the matter in a certain sense, considering there's likely at least 1 million potential partners you could marry in the world, from a statistical perspective you would have a 1 in a million chance of choosing the "best" partner (AND THATS A VERY VERY CONSERVATIVE APPROACH! The real chance is likely much lower). So one must supplicate, do tawassul with the ahlulbayt(عليه السلام) and when things seem good both from rational and intuitive perspective, proceed with courage and trust in Allah.

Also for criteria regarding spouses, I found this to be beneficial

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxEMQQlcLC0

Thank you! I'll look into it inshaallah.