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786:)

Sheikh Yasser Awde

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I am compelled by the ideas of Yasser Awde. I have read that he is a student of the late and great Ayatollah Fadlallah. Can someone validate this? I tried to look him up on various platforms. Most of his videos are in Arabic—thus, no use for me. If anyone has any more information on him, I would greatly appreciate it. Here is the site I came across which intrigued me:

https://sites.google.com/view/islamicresearch/aqaid/opinion-of-shaykh-yasser-awde

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He is controversial and not traditional at all. I personally agree with him on a lot of matters, but I disagree with how he lays them out. I can understand he is angry at the current Muslim situation and especially the Shia situation (especially in Lebanon), but as a scholar, you gotta be calm. Also as a scholar, if you punch everyone with new ideas, a lot of the sheep will feel insecure.

I like Sayed Kamal Haydaris approach more, because he proves everything with books.

I agree that the Shia faith needs a lot of reform, and what needs more reform is our Shia societies.

 

Unfortunately, as Shia, we have become more like Sunnis, where they disagree and attack everyone who has new ideas, and we stopped becoming a very open faith. Especially, Shia Muslims have become people who follow traditions and what our grandfathers practiced more than searching for the truth, and reconsidering some things. But unfortunately any idea to be discussed is now stated as "essential doctrine" where keeps people blindfolded and idiots

Edited by BowTie

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4 hours ago, 786:) said:

I am compelled by the ideas of Yasser Awde. I have read that he is a student of the late and great Ayatollah Fadlallah. Can someone validate this? I tried to look him up on various platforms. Most of his videos are in Arabic—thus, no use for me. If anyone has any more information on him, I would greatly appreciate it. Here is the site I came across which intrigued me:

https://sites.google.com/view/islamicresearch/aqaid/opinion-of-shaykh-yasser-awde

 

:salam:

That could have been me writing my ideas here.

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4 hours ago, BowTie said:

He is controversial and not traditional at all. I personally agree with him on a lot of matters, but I disagree with how he lays them out. I can understand he is angry at the current Muslim situation and especially the Shia situation (especially in Lebanon), but as a scholar, you gotta be calm. Also as a scholar, if you punch everyone with new ideas, a lot of the sheep will feel insecure.

I like Sayed Kamal Haydaris approach more, because he proves everything with books.

I agree that the Shia faith needs a lot of reform, and what needs more reform is our Shia societies.

 

Unfortunately, as Shia, we have become more like Sunnis, where they disagree and attack everyone who has new ideas, and we stopped becoming a very open faith. Especially, Shia Muslims have become people who follow traditions and what our grandfathers practiced more than searching for the truth, and reconsidering some things. But unfortunately any idea to be discussed is now stated as "essential doctrine" where keeps people blindfolded and idiots

Would you kindly list at least three things where Shia ‘faith’ needs reform? 

Also what’s so particularly wrong with majority Shias of Lebanon? 

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5 hours ago, 786:) said:

I am compelled by the ideas of Yasser Awde. I have read that he is a student of the late and great Ayatollah Fadlallah. Can someone validate this? I tried to look him up on various platforms. Most of his videos are in Arabic—thus, no use for me. If anyone has any more information on him, I would greatly appreciate it. Here is the site I came across which intrigued me:

https://sites.google.com/view/islamicresearch/aqaid/opinion-of-shaykh-yasser-awde

How are you compelled by his ideas if “most of his videos are in Arabic”, and apparently you can’t understand them? 

Just trying to understand from the two of you, what’s so unique about Yasser Awde? 

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20 minutes ago, Irfani313 said:

Would you kindly list at least three things where Shia ‘faith’ needs reform? 

Also what’s so particularly wrong with majority Shias of Lebanon? 

List? This needs a long never ending discussion. If you believe everything is perfect, you are delusional my friend. 

As for Lebanon. Are you Lebanese?

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20 minutes ago, BowTie said:

List? This needs a long never ending discussion. If you believe everything is perfect, you are delusional my friend. 

As for Lebanon. Are you Lebanese?

If this is so, shouldn’t it be easier to list at least three? 

I’m from Mars brother for all that matters, what I care to know is what’s so wrong with the majority of the Shias of Lebanon? 

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Nothing new here. I can see him pretty soon (in a few years till he gathers a few more willful liberals) either attacking Sistani or Khamenei.

It’s the same old wine (of Yasser Habib, Tawhidi and other ‘paid members’) presented in the new bottle. 

https://sites.google.com/view/islamicresearch/aqaid/opinion-of-shaykh-yasser-awde

I guess my question should have been, “who is paying him?” Because after all one of his gripe is against Khums.

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1 hour ago, Irfani313 said:

How are you compelled by his ideas if “most of his videos are in Arabic”, and apparently you can’t understand them? 

Just trying to understand from the two of you, what’s so unique about Yasser Awde? 

Compelled by his ideas based off of the link I pasted. I would like to learn more about him as most of his ideas scream Fadlallah.

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7 hours ago, Irfani313 said:

Nothing new here. I can see him pretty soon (in a few years till he gathers a few more willful liberals) either attacking Sistani or Khamenei.

It’s the same old wine (of Yasser Habib, Tawhidi and other ‘paid members’) presented in the new bottle. 

https://sites.google.com/view/islamicresearch/aqaid/opinion-of-shaykh-yasser-awde

I guess my question should have been, “who is paying him?” Because after all one of his gripe is against Khums.

:salam:

Dear brother, I suggest you extra read about shia ulema of Jabal Amil in the late 19th century like Sayid Muhsin al Amin to discover that this Sheikh right here is in the continuity of their ideas. 

So indeed, nothing new. Shia Islam is not a monolyth with 100% established ideas. Alhamdulillah, some scholars still dare to denounce things they consider not right.

 

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16 hours ago, 786:) said:

I am compelled by the ideas of Yasser Awde. I have read that he is a student of the late and great Ayatollah Fadlallah. Can someone validate this? I tried to look him up on various platforms. Most of his videos are in Arabic—thus, no use for me. If anyone has any more information on him, I would greatly appreciate it. Here is the site I came across which intrigued me:

https://sites.google.com/view/islamicresearch/aqaid/opinion-of-shaykh-yasser-awde

I disagree with some of his statements and I don't know how he can even prove such a statement. For example, 2, 8, 10, 11, 13.

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Also 3 ,6 ,9,12,14,16 ,20 , 22 23 ,25

His belief Is not reform ,he just tries to weaken shia belief to satisfy wahhabists in name of unity he has ideas like as Waqifis that rejected imam Jawad (as) as divinr imam & wanted to appoint their desired one but people like him are trying to revive their distorted idea again his next step will be denying wilayat of any Imam to satisfy enemies of Shia Islam

He is just modifying saying of Wahabists to adopt their brief to Shia islam

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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2 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Also 3 ,6 ,9,12,14,16 ,20 , 22 23 ,25

His belief Is not reform ,he just tries to weaken shia belief to satisfy wahhabists in name of unity he has ideas like as Waqifis that rejected imam Jawad (as) as divinr imam & wanted to appoint their desired one but people like him are trying to revive their distorted idea again his next step will be denying wilayat of any Imam to satisfy enemies of Shia Islam

He is just modifying saying of Wahabists to adopt their brief to Shia islam

Just a weak minded approach. But sure, if that makes you feel less insecure.

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'Scholars' like this try to deviate people from mainstream shia beliefs which are established by Quran and Ahadith and confirmed by our classical scholars. They get support from people like OP who always look where they can criticize existing shia beliefs and bring them down to the level of other sects. These kind of attempt is either crave for unity or employed by enemies of Islam to disunite shias. 

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23 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Just a weak minded approach. But sure, if that makes you feel less insecure.

Brother no need to do the personal attacks.

I assume you and @BowTie are confusing the reforms-need between the ‘Shi’a People’ and the ‘Shi’a faith’.

1. Theologically Yasser Awde doesn’t present anything new. He is just parroting (in a very disorganized way which tells of his intellectual superficiality) the similar objections that popped up a decade ago to weaken Najaf and Qom. 

2. We all fully agree, every community, nation, and group (Shias are not an exception), need reform in the way we follow our religion. 

But anybody who tries to become modern Abdul Wahab for Shi’a Faith is suspicious, and must be paid by the outsiders. 

As far as disagreements between the scholars in the Howzas, it’s a huge norm there but no sincere right-minded ‘alim brings it to street for pointscoring and getting brownie points from people who can’t even recount the names of their Imams in the right sequence. 

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2 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

'Scholars' like this try to deviate people from mainstream shia beliefs which are established by Quran and Ahadith and confirmed by our classical scholars. They get support from people like OP who always look where they can criticize existing shia beliefs and bring them down to the level of other sects. These kind of attempt is either crave for unity or employed by enemies of Islam to disunite shias. 

 

1 hour ago, Irfani313 said:

Brother no need to do the personal attacks.

I assume you and @BowTie are confusing the reforms-need between the ‘Shi’a People’ and the ‘Shi’a faith’.

1. Theologically Yasser Awde doesn’t present anything new. He is just parroting (in a very disorganized way which tells of his intellectual superficiality) the similar objections that popped up a decade ago to weaken Najaf and Qom. 

2. We all fully agree, every community, nation, and group (Shias are not an exception), need reform in the way we follow our religion. 

But anybody who tries to become modern Abdul Wahab for Shi’a Faith is suspicious, and must be paid by the outsiders. 

As far as disagreements between the scholars in the Howzas, it’s a huge norm there but no sincere right-minded ‘alim brings it to street for pointscoring and getting brownie points from people who can’t even recount the names of their Imams in the right sequence. 

I think the both of you fail to accept that individuals can reach different conclusions with sincerity. It doesn't automatically mean that Person X is an agent or some sort of outside force to dismantle the school of Muhammad (saw) wa'aal Muhammad (saw). If you look at our maraja, they differ on matters too. Does this mean that one is correct, and the rest are agents? So let's not jump the gun on individuals simply because they don't massage your preconceived notions. It is perfectly possible for someone to study the same set of Quran and Hadiths and reach different conclusions with sincerity.

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2 hours ago, Irfani313 said:

Brother no need to do the personal attacks.

I assume you and @BowTie are confusing the reforms-need between the ‘Shi’a People’ and the ‘Shi’a faith’.

1. Theologically Yasser Awde doesn’t present anything new. He is just parroting (in a very disorganized way which tells of his intellectual superficiality) the similar objections that popped up a decade ago to weaken Najaf and Qom. 

2. We all fully agree, every community, nation, and group (Shias are not an exception), need reform in the way we follow our religion. 

But anybody who tries to become modern Abdul Wahab for Shi’a Faith is suspicious, and must be paid by the outsiders. 

As far as disagreements between the scholars in the Howzas, it’s a huge norm there but no sincere right-minded ‘alim brings it to street for pointscoring and getting brownie points from people who can’t even recount the names of their Imams in the right sequence. 

Actually a lot of what Sheikh Yasser Awde says, a lot of scholars following/represent Imam Khamenei say the exact same behind closed doors where there are no cameras. They say it in a different tone and attitude. 

Problem is, we accept things from certain scholars because they represent a certain religious authority, and if someone is independant we tend to bash him. 

The only issue people have with Sheikh Awde is “how he is speaking about issues” and that “he says them publicly”, the same with Sayed Kamal Haydari. But difference with Sayed Kamal Haydari they cant defame him since he speaks calmly and brings proofs from our books, so what “mainstream Shia” have against him is that “he speaks publicly”.

P.S. if you read before, I’m not Sheikh Awdes follower. I stated I agree with certain issues which are truthful and a lot of issues I disagree, but I refuse to defame someone and put him on the brink of Kufir because he decides to speak his own mind, he has no hate speech n’or does he incite to kill. Our religiom is freedom of speech and he is free to speak what he wants. (When we want we ask for freedom of speech when we are oppressed, and when we have power we bash someone, that is hypocricy)

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5 hours ago, Irfani313 said:

Brother no need to do the personal attacks.

I assume you and @BowTie are confusing the reforms-need between the ‘Shi’a People’ and the ‘Shi’a faith’.

1. Theologically Yasser Awde doesn’t present anything new. He is just parroting (in a very disorganized way which tells of his intellectual superficiality) the similar objections that popped up a decade ago to weaken Najaf and Qom. 

 

:salam:

Brother, by limiting this trend to the last decade you show your knowledge on the matter is very limited and I say it with utmost respect. 

If you could have a read to this book, you would be fully surprised by what the last century saw of conflicted views amongst the shia world.

https://journals.openedition.org/remmm/2462

Ironically the late Sayid Muhsin al Amin which I mentioned above was very active in a journal, amongst the first in the shia world I think, named Al Irfan which he held as a tribune for his ideas, which often owed him beef with Najaf based ulema - and also fellow Lebanese ones.

At the same time he was a famous figure in the sunni shia debate and also spoke loudly against wahabi crimes in the beginning of the 20th century.

Finally, he settled headquarters in Damascus' Sayida Zeinab district and this probably had a great impact on the development of Shia recognition in Syria.

I would not go around asking who paid his noble soul to carry out such achievements, that would be unfair.

Edited by realizm

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21 hours ago, Irfani313 said:

Would you kindly list at least three things where Shia ‘faith’ needs reform? 

Also what’s so particularly wrong with majority Shias of Lebanon? 

- Tawassul : the way it is done

- Wilayah at takwiniya : not found in Quran or Duas of Aimmah (as)

- Obligatory transit of alms by established institutions 

- Taqlid : when we the ignorants must chose carefully who is the most learned

 

Nothing particularly wrong with majority of Lebanon shias : a bit superstitious, over eat but cry for the thirst of Imam Hussein (as), leave Friday prayer, are fond of fiqh loopholes (21kms of iftar) etc... Just regular shias actually.

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8 minutes ago, realizm said:

 

Nothing particularly wrong with majority of Lebanon shias : a bit superstitious, over eat but cry for the thirst of Imam Hussein (as), leave Friday prayer, are fond of fiqh loopholes (21kms of iftar) etc... Just regular shias actually.

No actually theres more to that, theres a lot wrong with society, unfortunate "norms" that are accepted, corrupt religious institutions and courts, failure of Shia political parties in the internal lebanese politics. the list goes on.

Edited by BowTie

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3 minutes ago, BowTie said:

No actually theres more to that, theres a lot wrong with society, unfortunate "norms" that are accepted, corrupt religious institutions and courts, failure of Shia political parties in the internal lebanese politics. the list goes on.

Oh of course, I was trying to stick to the debate of religious creed.

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9 minutes ago, realizm said:

Oh of course, I was trying to stick to the debate of religious creed.

Not to mention, we have a Shrine of Syeda Khawla, that apparently recent religious researchers found out she doesn't seem to have existed (Allah knows best). But no scholar in Lebanon has the guts to mention that publicly but they speak about it within small groups.

Apparently not breaking peoples hearts is more important than the truth. Or I don't know, maybe all those Nidir and charity will stop flowing, so money is more important :party:

Edited by BowTie

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7 minutes ago, BowTie said:

Not to mention, we have a Shrine of Syeda Khawla, that apparently recent religious researchers found out she doesn't seem to have existed (Allah knows best). But no scholar in Lebanon has the guts to mention that publicly but they speak about it within small groups.

Apparently breaking peoples hearts is more important than the truth. Or I don't know, maybe all those Nidir and charity will stop flowing, so money is more important :party:

I had no idea the Lebanese community was afflicted with such issues. I thought Agha Fadlallah freed people from superstitious aqeedah.

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4 hours ago, BowTie said:

Actually a lot of what Sheikh Yasser Awde says, a lot of scholars following/represent Imam Khamenei say the exact same behind closed doors where there are no cameras. They say it in a different tone and attitude. 

Problem is, we accept things from certain scholars because they represent a certain religious authority, and if someone is independant we tend to bash him. 

The only issue people have with Sheikh Awde is “how he is speaking about issues” and that “he says them publicly”, the same with Sayed Kamal Haydari. But difference with Sayed Kamal Haydari they can’t defame him since he speaks calmly and brings proofs from our books, so what “mainstream Shia” have against him is that “he speaks publicly”.

P.S. if you read before, I’m not Sheikh Awdes follower. I stated I agree with certain issues which are truthful and a lot of issues I disagree, but I refuse to defame someone and put him on the brink of Kufir because he decides to speak his own mind, he has no hate speech n’or does he incite to kill. Our religiom is freedom of speech and he is free to speak what he wants. (When we want we ask for freedom of speech when we are oppressed, and when we have power we bash someone, that is hypocricy)

Lol and what's wrong with our beliefs and why do we need to reform them? Is it to please the disbelievers and the innovators? 

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6 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Lol and what's wrong with our beliefs and why do we need to reform them? Is it to please the disbelievers and the innovators? 

You know not everything in our doctrines are sent by God, or the prophet or Ahlul Bayt. Many come from the analysis of old scholars, who said all that they analyzed was correct? Besides, most of the old scholars contradicted each other. But we had freedom of speech and an open mind where we as a religion accepted new studies. But when we became powerful, instead of continues with moving forward, our Hawzas are teaching people not to think anymore like in the old days. On the contrary, they are teaching them how to parrot. Not to mention, the world is in 2019 and we still have scholars analyzing issues (which are crystal clear till now after a thousand years) of Najasa and Tahara that don't help  us to evolve as Muslim societies. 

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Just now, BowTie said:

You know not everything in our doctrines are sent by God, or the prophet or Ahlul Bayt. Many come from the analysis of old scholars, who said all that they analyzed was correct? Besides, most of the old scholars contradicted each other. But we had freedom of speech and an open mind where we as a religion accepted new studies. But when we became powerful, instead of continues with moving forward, our Hawzas are teaching people not to think anymore like in the old days. On the contrary, they are teaching them how to parrot. Not to mention, the world is in 2019 and we still have scholars analyzing issues (which are crystal clear till now after a thousand years) of Najasa and Tahara that don't help  us to evolve as Muslim societies. 

Can you name me one doctrine which is seen as essential today which was the result of classical scholars "analysis" and not due to religious text?

The thing is people are parroting this whole "moderation" thing which sounds nice on paper but it is simply a catering to unity in exchange of surrendering core beliefs.

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4 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Can you name me one doctrine which is seen as essential today which was the result of classical scholars "analysis" and not due to religious text?

The thing is people are parroting this whole "moderation" thing which sounds nice on paper but it is simply a catering to unity in exchange of surrendering core beliefs.

Which core belief is Sheikh Yawde compromising?

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2 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Can you name me one doctrine which is seen as essential today which was the result of classical scholars "analysis" and not due to religious text?

The problem is now everything is doctrine. A simple historical issue which is being discussed, is asked to be abolished because it threatens our belief. As a Shia sect, we are going backwards. Where as 100 years ago, we were oppressed, but we were more enlightened in religion, and were more open to studies and researching.

At the moment if a scholar says something controversial his "Shiite Belief" is questioned. Dig up history of what many of our old scholars, and the pillars of the Shia sect have said, they all contradicted each other and many have said crazy things. But no one dares to say "what was that" But if someone NOW says the truth even if it hurts, they question him being a sheikh in the first place. Its disgusting, and many of our "Authoritarian" scholars have become hypocrites and contradictory to Ahlul Bayts belief of openness. They do everything that Omar, Abou Baqir and Uthman did in terms of keeping people quite. 

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3 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Which core belief is Sheikh Yawde compromising?

Bara'ah.

2 minutes ago, BowTie said:

The problem is now everything is doctrine. A simple historical issue which is being discussed, is asked to be abolished because it threatens our belief. As a Shia sect, we are going backwards. Where as 100 years ago, we were oppressed, but we were more enlightened in religion, and were more open to studies and researching.

At the moment if a scholar says something controversial his "Shiite Belief" is questioned. Dig up history of what many of our old scholars, and the pillars of the Shia sect have said, they all contradicted each other and many have said crazy things. But no one dares to say "what was that" But if someone NOW says the truth even if it hurts, they question him being a sheikh in the first place. Its disgusting, and many of our "Authoritarian" scholars have become hypocrites and contradictory to Ahlul Bayts belief of openness. They do everything that Omar, Abou Baqir and Uthman did in terms of keeping people quite. 

Historical questions isn't a doctrinal issue, neither among classical scholars or scholars today.

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On 1/10/2019 at 9:39 PM, BowTie said:

He is controversial and not traditional at all. I personally agree with him on a lot of matters, but I disagree with how he lays them out. I can understand he is angry at the current Muslim situation and especially the Shia situation (especially in Lebanon), but as a scholar, you gotta be calm. Also as a scholar, if you punch everyone with new ideas, a lot of the sheep will feel insecure.

I like Sayed Kamal Haydaris approach more, because he proves everything with books.

I agree that the Shia faith needs a lot of reform, and what needs more reform is our Shia societies.

 

Unfortunately, as Shia, we have become more like Sunnis, where they disagree and attack everyone who has new ideas, and we stopped becoming a very open faith. Especially, Shia Muslims have become people who follow traditions and what our grandfathers practiced more than searching for the truth, and reconsidering some things. But unfortunately any idea to be discussed is now stated as "essential doctrine" where keeps people blindfolded and idiots

Bowtie my brother so brilliantly. Atheists who were formerly Muslims always say the same thing; that why has there never been a reformation in Islam. Brilliant. The Ayatollahs in Iran are trying to compete with Muhammad Ibn Wahhab. The only way to counter Sunni fundamentalism is to respond with Shia fundamentalism. Now they are even physically attacking Sufi mystics. Who physically attacks a Sufi mystic? The most spiritual human beings on earth just because it counters your own theology. and I read what makes Shia Islam dynamic is that dead Imams are not followed so a living Imam needs to be followed thereby the living Imam is able to rationally and logically guide the flock in ever changing times while at the same time the faith itself keeps breathing in new ideas while getting rid of outdated ancient archaic modes and ideas. If you were to ever speak the way you did in some parts of this world you'd be beheaded. don’t forget that.

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6 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Bara'ah.

Historical questions isn't a doctrinal issue, neither among classical scholars or scholars today.

Elaborate on how he compromised Bara’ah.

also, wasn’t Fadlallah’s views about Lady Fatimah’s demise the reason he was excommunicated from Najaf?

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11 minutes ago, BowTie said:

The problem is now everything is doctrine. A simple historical issue which is being discussed, is asked to be abolished because it threatens our belief. As a Shia sect, we are going backwards. Where as 100 years ago, we were oppressed, but we were more enlightened in religion, and were more open to studies and researching.

At the moment if a scholar says something controversial his "Shiite Belief" is questioned. Dig up history of what many of our old scholars, and the pillars of the Shia sect have said, they all contradicted each other and many have said crazy things. But no one dares to say "what was that" But if someone NOW says the truth even if it hurts, they question him being a sheikh in the first place. Its disgusting, and many of our "Authoritarian" scholars have become hypocrites and contradictory to Ahlul Bayts belief of openness. They do everything that Omar, Abou Baqir and Uthman did in terms of keeping people quite. 

You need to read a book called CLASH OF FUNDAMENTALISMS; CRUSADES, JIHADS AND MODERNITY; TARIQ ALI

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8 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Elaborate on how he compromised Bara’ah.

also, wasn’t Fadlallah’s views about Lady Fatimah’s demise the reason he was excommunicated from Najaf?

He is against cursing the enemies of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and asks the Shi'a if they are "better" than them so that they have the right to curse them. He also defended another person's taraddhi on the enemies of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى. That is clear compromise.

Whoever considers it a sin (or dislikes) to send la'nah (curses) upon the one whom Allah's La'nah is upon, then upon him is Allah's La'nah. (Hadith sahih)

https://purifiedhousehold.com/is-cursing-lanah-a-wrong-or-obligatory/

As for Fadlullah, they had many issues with him beyond the historical problem. 

Edited by Sumerian

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