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Guest Ali313

What should i do?

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Guest Ali313

What I should do? i got married to complete my deen,  it is been over 4 years, i have now two young kids but there is no harmony with my wife, i been trying all this time  to see any changes but still same issues, I have involved Alim and he was very harsh on her . Part of the issue being her raised in the West and am from the back home, her personality always defensive and she thinks she has the right to talk this way, I feel many times disrespected and almost disconnected in thoughts, plans, and way in looking for things. she is good person, she does her duties but i do not see any progress from the marriage side, it effecting my health to the point i start taking anxiety medications . at this point i do not know what to do, i do not feel anything anymore!!!

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See a marriage counsellor instead of a sheikh. Telling you from experience, sadly most of our sayyeds and sheikhs have zero training to deal with marital issues. The only thing they are good at is parroting fatwas and only tend to make things worse. From what I understand from your post, your marriage is very much salvageable. Please don't let a sheykh ruin it.

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You decide to complete your deen so you decide to marry someone who is from a complete different background, and suppose that because its a marriage it will all be good? Second of all, so why is it that I feel you want her to do progress while you sit and watch? What is your role in the marriage exactly? Just a spectator for her to be up to your standards?

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That is the problem with people marrying outside their cultures. More chance of incompatibility arises between both partners. I am not saying that marriage between peoples from different cultures or generation won't work because I have seen many marriages blossom and still going strong but then there also are many sad cases of mostly sisters suffering in cases involving husbands from the Indian subcontinent with serious problems and culture clashes. I am not saying that you belong in that category.

I think you should both think from a compatibility perspective. sit down. seek a professional relationship councillor and take each step at a time. You both have to realise that you are in this too deep now. The only happiness for both of you and your children is to be honest, compliment each other and try to make this relationship work. May Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى bless you and your family and all those families and individuals suffering in similar situations.

Edited by Murtaza1

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18 minutes ago, Guest Ali313 said:

You guys easy to jump into conclusion that is  not good start, first we are both from the same culture the only difference is we been raised in different countries (same home country, same religion, whats wrong with that?) . My real goal is to start family life like any other human, Third who said  i got married to sit and watch? if that was the case i could have got divorced the first year instead of trying and being patience for over 4 years. Fourth not only i tried i did involve few Sayyeds  to help rectifying the problem. I didn't come here asking for divorce or be miss judged because you might be religious but I do too and i  know my duties and responsibilities as husband. 

I was waiting for an answer from Sayyed or Sheikh who  is experienced with these issues but i guess am in the wrong place!

Thank you 

Being from the same country but raised in different countries means different culture and different backgrounds.

Sayyeds don't solve problems man. You have a problem with your wife, sit with her, and see how you would work it out with her. Sayyeds can barely solve their own problems. They're humans like us. On the contrary, maybe she's unhappy scholars are being involved

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38 minutes ago, Guest Ali313 said:

we are both from the same culture the only difference is we been raised in different countries (same home country, same religion, whats wrong with that?)

Brother are you serious? You clearly stated in your first message that you have children.

Coming from different countries brings many differences between people. If you havent heard of the many sisters that have suffered and are still suffering and divorces in the UK even after they have children then please do your research. I am saying this to save everybody pain, heartache and ruined lifes. Your marriage is already not working. Please think about it. 

Edited by Murtaza1

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As salaamun aleikum brother, 

Not sure where youre located, but this Sheikh may be able to help you because not only is he religiously educated, but he's also a psychologist and family counselor, and so on and so forth. Here, check his website and see if maybe he does Skype sessions or something. He's based here in San Francisco Bay Area, California, United States. Ive met him in person beforre at a youth camp. Inshallah you can get some help from him or maybe he can direct you somewhere else that's closer to where you live.

https://seyedhadiyassin.com/

Excerpt from his home page:

Great to see you are interested in taking the first steps to living a fulfilling life.

I specialize in relationships whether they are romantic, child-parent or family. I believe all of these different relationships are intertwined with a full and satisfying life. If you see problems in your life, they may stem from your relationships.

I believe with the proper skills and strategies provided through H.A.D.I. sessions you can resolve any conflict or difficulty that you are experiencing in your private or professional life. Here at H.A.D.I. we strive to provide our clients with all the tools they need to live a fulfilling life and coaching them to rise to their full potential.

Let H.A.D.I. guide you through this beautiful journey of life as you

Hope for the Future. Achieve your goals. Develop your skills and, Inspire the world!

sign

W/s

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Guest Ali313

You guys easy to jump into conclusion that is  not good start, first we are both from the same culture the only difference is we been raised in different countries (same home country, same religion, whats wrong with that?) . My real goal is to start family life like any other human, Third who said  i got married to sit and watch? if that was the case i could have got divorced the first year instead of trying and being patience for over 4 years. Fourth not only i tried i did involve few Sayyeds  to help rectifying the problem. I didn't come here asking for divorce or be miss judged because you might be religious but I do too and i  know my duties and responsibilities as husband. 

I was waiting for an answer from Sayyed or Sheikh who  is experienced with these issues but i guess am in the wrong place!

Thank you 

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Being raised in different countries often means you’re from very different cultures. For example, a woman raised in the West will have different ideals than a woman(or man) raised in the East. If you are from the East v West it’s obvious you have very different upbringings and cultures.

Counseling will greatly help facilitate a healthy way to communicate, so I would try that before anything else. You have to understand how to effectively and respectfully communicate with one another. This is the biggest reason people have problems in their marriages. As other members have mentioned, you can also have a sit down with your wife. Be open and willing to be vulnerable and accept your shortcomings. Be honest with one another. Explain what problems you’re having with her behavior and tell her what you would like to see change. Do not speak defensively or in an accusatory manner. Let her do the same with you. You should understand that you are on the same team, you aren’t working against each other. 

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6 hours ago, Guest Ali313 said:

What I should do? i got married to complete my deen,  it is been over 4 years, i have now two young kids but there is no harmony with my wife, i been trying all this time  to see any changes but still same issues, I have involved Alim and he was very harsh on her . Part of the issue being her raised in the West and am from the back home, her personality always defensive and she thinks she has the right to talk this way, I feel many times disrespected and almost disconnected in thoughts, plans, and way in looking for things. she is good person, she does her duties but i do not see any progress from the marriage side, it effecting my health to the point i start taking anxiety medications . at this point i do not know what to do, i do not feel anything anymore!!!

Your spouse seems to be suffering from haughtiness issues. I think you should talk to her to show respect in words by using simple methods like speaking softly, lovingly, with patience. 

I’m sure she respects you in her heart and it’s just the language and cultural differences between the two of you. 

Also as a side exercise, ask her what two things that you could that would help her change her behavior. Then do those two things and let her reciprocate.

 

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Your post shows everything wrong with men raised in east. Your poor wife fullfills all her duties, she even raised 2 kids, still you want her to silently tolerate your abuse and not say a word? I am sure yiu have the support of your wife's family, your family, you even got support from a scholar, still that's not enough for you? You need support from people on the internet? You are spoiled and entitled, whatever your wife does to please you, it's never going to be enough. Your kids are alive and they have all their body parts? Well your wife has done her job. You shouldn't expect anything more from her. I am so sad after reading that scholar was harsh with her. Backward eastern culture doesn't support women, their own parents don't support them, they only had one hope: religion. Now the fake scholars are even taking away that hope. Your wife is an angel, she should have gotten divorce from you. I honestly don't understand what problem you have with your wife other than she doesn't satisfy your ego. 

Edited by rkazmi33

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1 hour ago, rkazmi33 said:

Your post shows everything wrong with men raised in east...Your wife is an angel, she should have gotten divorce from you. 

I totally agree with you. I know sisters that are strong as a rock. When their husbands cheat on them they throw them out with a divorce even if they have children. They raise their children on their own. On their own but still longing with an intense feeling for love, care and support they don't forget to smile. It shows power and courage. I applaud them. That's what makes their personality sweet. 

One sister told me she got Khula, a form of islamic divorce initiated by the wife, which is effected by the return of her husbands wedding gift.

Edited by Murtaza1

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Guest Ali313

Your post shows everything wrong with men raised in east. Your poor wife fullfills all her duties, she even raised 2 kids, still you want her to silently tolerate your abuse and not say a word? I am sure yiu have the support of your wife's family, your family, you even got support from a scholar, still that's not enough for you? You need support from people on the internet? You are spoiled and entitled, whatever your wife does to please you, it's never going to be enough. Your kids are alive and they have all their body parts? Well your wife has done her job. You shouldn't expect anything more from her. I am so sad after reading that scholar was harsh with her. Backward eastern culture doesn't support women, their own parents don't support them, they only had one hope: religion. Now the fake scholars are even taking away that hope. Your wife is an angel, she should have gotten divorce from you. I honestly don't understand what problem you have with your wife other than she doesn't satisfy your ego. 

 

Subhan Allah you either Ignorant or you are part of the feminine movement, So let me ask you since you are acting too smart!

If you ask your wife to wear Hejab and she does not what you will do?

If you ask your wife to put your kids in Islamic school and she does not  agree what you will do?

if you ask your wife not to involve anyone in your life but she still does what you will do?

if you ask your to respect her husband decision and she does not what you will do?

etc.....

Now talking about your west mentality? if you are originally Pakistani and you guys have strict culture where man abuse their women, this is not the case and to blame a scholar you do not even know  another ignorant move. It seems the  west culture changed instead of balancing your life. Anyways just FYI, my issue is very opposite. 

 

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34 minutes ago, Guest Ali313 said:

If you ask your wife to wear Hejab and she does not what you will do?

If Hijab was such an issue with the guy he would should not have married a non hijabi.

 

35 minutes ago, Guest Ali313 said:

you ask your wife to put your kids in Islamic school and she does not  agree what you will do?

This isn't a make or break factor in marriage. A generation back there weren't even any islamic schools and almost everyone living in the west sent their kids to regular schools and gave them religious education at home.

They are her kids too, she should also have a say in their upbringing.

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Marriage issues needs patience, It takes time for both wife and husband to get in harmony if they were from different culture, If you both love each other and fear Allah and wants to fix these issues it can be done. Sit together every night and talk about whats hurting you and hurting her, Ian sure neither you or wife are happy to see your kids gets raised by different man or mom. Regarding the Hejab and Islamic schools, it is very important to take your time explaining the importance of it. eventually she will change. 

Salat Aliel is your key

 

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9 minutes ago, starlight said:

If Hijab was such an issue with the guy he would should not have married a non hijabi.

This isn't a make or break factor in marriage. A generation back there weren't even any islamic schools and almost everyone living in the west sent their kids to regular schools and gave them religious education at home.

They are her kids too, she should also have a say in their upbringing.

This is correct. You cannot force her to cover, or do anything else. You should have married someone who already covered or would like to cover if that’s what you would like in a wife. Someone who doesn’t cover will likely not think about covering, just as a woman who covers doesn’t think about removing her veil for a man.   Her wanting to cover or practice in a certain way should come from her own desire to be closer to Allah, not from her husband asking her to do so.

I live in the West and most of us Muslim children did not go to Islamic schools. They are expensive and often are not actually good schools. The teachers are not always certified and the children from those schools often have more behavioral problems than those from public schools (I have seen this personally and I know schools that have teachers who are not certified educators). They will also have more difficulty when going to college because of the seclusion and due to being taught by teachers who weren’t certified. 

You don’t need an Islamic school to teach your children the Islamic way of life. You should focus on doing this in your home. There are also various weekend programs that Mosques offer that will help your children. My siblings, my friends and the children from our community learned everything we have from home and from visiting Mosques regularly. 

As starlight mentioned, you cannot ask something of your wife and expect her to simply agree. She has her own values and upbringing that influence how she would like to raise her children. You should sit down together and lay these issues out and brainstorm. Give ideas and suggestions, not orders. Compromise and come up with a plan that pleases both of you. 

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1 hour ago, Guest Ali313 said:

If you ask your wife to wear Hejab and she does not what you will do?

This issue should have been solved before even getting married. Did you talk to your wife before you got married? What did you guys talk about? Did you ever ask her what she thought about wearing hijab? Or you thought I'll marry her, and enslave her, and I'm her supreme leader she has to obey me?

Quote

If you ask your wife to put your kids in Islamic school and she does not  agree what you will do?

So what? In marriage you don't give orders, there is something called compromise. You should talk about it, and see why, and make a decision together, just like they're your kids, they're her kids. And frankly speaking, I agree with her. I wouldn't put my children in an Islamic school. Does it make me less of a Muslim?

Quote

if you ask your wife not to involve anyone in your life but she still does what you will do?

 Involve anyone like who and what? You have involved a whole website with your marriage problem.

Quote

if you ask your to respect her husband decision and she does not what you will do?

If she doesn't agree with your decisions it doesn't mean she doesn't respect you. Did you show her you are worthy of respect? No one sleeps and wakes up respecting someone. You gain respect, not force it.

23 hours ago, Gabenowa said:

Where exactly are you and where is she from?

I smell a country with the letter P.

Peru maybe? :rolleyes:

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It's not easy for a man from a conservative background, religious or not, to get married to a woman from the West. The West is not even liberal. It's more than just liberalism, it's got to do more with the fact that unrestricted capitalism functions more when people have no restrictions. That way consumers spend more, men and women. Anyway, that is the problem with dating sites like Mulsima.com or the Lovehabibi's of this world. You really don’t know who a person really is. But common sense would have taught you that she grew up in a society where a woman can even have a baby on her own vis-a-vis semen insertions from sperm banks. Maybe she was tired of the men in the west who are "players' and she wanted to build a home with a devout Muslim husband but she also didnt do her research. She is probably educated, opinionated and would rather have married a serious romantic. Not a cultural religious savage. Either learn to view women as equals, oh yes as equals in that socially neanderthal country of yours or just drop the whole marriage and go find a village girl who will say yes and no depending on which answer you prefer. lick and wipe your a**s when you need. I wish I knew your race and culture, Id tell you what you are and why. 

Are there really men in this day and age of globalisation of everything that are still NEANDERTHALS? yeeeeeezus

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1 hour ago, Gabenowa said:

It's not easy for a man from a conservative background, religious or not, to get married to a woman from the West

I would disagree disagree with your statement although I am not supporting the brother because of his lack of intelligence in his relationship. 

I have many female relatives that were born in the west that married Pakistani men that grew up in Pakistan but they are in healthy strong relationships together. It works because strong Pakistani family values were laid down early in their home while they grew up in the west. 

Many prefer to marry Pakistani men from Pakistan rather than Pakistani men that grew up in the west. Even if things go wrong they still seek men of Pakistani background but realise it is better to marry a western born Pakistani. 

1 hour ago, Gabenowa said:

it's got to do more with the fact that unrestricted capitalism functions more when people have no restrictions. 

Not true in Pakistani culture, family values or females. In fact if you go to Pakistani populated areas of the UK such as Bradford and Southhall you will find that they hate independence and material blessings offered in the western non Islamic cultures. The UK Pakistani females thrive in their UK towns which some call Englistan because it is so much like Pakistan.

1 hour ago, Gabenowa said:

That way consumers spend more, men and women. Anyway, that is the problem with dating sites like Mulsima.com or the Lovehabibi's of this world. You really don’t know who a person really is.

These sites are businesses. They don't really care who uses their service a long as they make money. Race, social classes, criminal, rapist does not mean much to them. 

Many western born Pakistani men and women marry through family and relatives. 

There are Pakistani meet up groups and halal dating matrimonial services that also cater for people of Pakistani origin.

Some of these cater for a niche market. They have wealthy professional Pakistanis on their database. Alternatively mosques and Pakistani community centres now also offer halal dating services to local Pakistanis.

1 hour ago, Gabenowa said:

But common sense would have taught you that she grew up in a society where a woman can even have a baby on her own vis-a-vis semen insertions from sperm banks

Yes but the corrupted western culture gives them more reason not to embrace western values. They live by strong Pakistani values onto which they are brought up in their parents home. That's true of my female relatives too.

1 hour ago, Gabenowa said:

Maybe she was tired of the men in the west who are "players' and she wanted to build a home with a devout Muslim husband but she also didnt do her research.

Trust me personally i do not know of any western born Pakistani females that are interested in western players. Regardless of the fact that mass media and popular culture which may tell you differently, their job is to brain wash and spread propaganda. I stopped watching or reading western media 15 years ago. 

1 hour ago, Gabenowa said:

Either learn to view women as equals, oh yes as equals in that socially neanderthal country of yours or just drop the whole marriage and go find a village girl who will say yes and no depending on which answer you prefer. lick and wipe your a**s when you need

Trust me village girls and city boys thrive together. As a western born Pakistani male, I grew up in the west. My mothers side of the family is poor but sweet and funny, As a boy my childhood family holiday experiences to Pakistan influenced much of my love for Pakistani family values and village life and village girls, even though they live in the city but their morals, values and economic status reflected similar. My values are build on my childhood experience.

1 hour ago, Gabenowa said:

Are there really men in this day and age of globalisation of everything that are still NEANDERTHALS? yeeeeeezus

I think using the word neanderthals shows that westerners do not understand Pakistani family values or culture and think of us in evolutionary term. This often results in Pakistani's holding onto their values and culture even strongly. I am sure Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى will be pleased because these values are based on Islamic value and the culture of the Indian subcontinent

Edited by Murtaza1

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30 minutes ago, Murtaza1 said:

 

I get it. I didnt mean to use the word "neanderthals". I hate the oppression of women. I see a women as an equal whether she is "independent" or not. Whether she is an educated city girl or a village girl. It doesnt matter to me. So when a man, BTW, I am African, South African, not a westerner, when a man uses culture or religion as a tool to oppress a women I get angry even if she is wild or whatever. Rather accept it or walk away peacefully using divorce procedures laid down in the law. In my country, cultural "values" are used to beat down village women. I personally, if I ever get married, to a muslim women of whatever cultural background, will never EVER insist she wear a hejab. In fact I will get angry if she does wear a hejab because in my country a woman wears what she wants even if she flaunts her thighs and breasts and whatever insecurities I feel are mine and mine alone. If my so called future wife would insist herself that she wear a hejab because she wants to then fine ITS HER CHOICE. Women are equals if not superior to men irrespective of what I got taught about Eve and the apple. Sharia law is used to conceal a mans insecurities about women. I was talking to an Egyptian muslim chick here in South Africa and she said that she feels so free coz she can wear what she wants.

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12 minutes ago, Gabenowa said:

I get it. I didnt mean to use the word "neanderthals". I hate the oppression of women. I see a women as an equal whether she is "independent" or not. Whether she is an educated city girl or a village girl. It doesnt matter to me. So when a man, BTW, I am African, South African, not a westerner, when a man uses culture or religion as a tool to oppress a women I get angry even if she is wild or whatever. Rather accept it or walk away peacefully using divorce procedures laid down in the law. In my country, cultural "values" are used to beat down village women. I personally, if I ever get married, to a muslim women of whatever cultural background, will never EVER insist she wear a hejab. In fact I will get angry if she does wear a hejab because in my country a woman wears what she wants even if she flaunts her thighs and breasts and whatever insecurities I feel are mine and mine alone. If my so called future wife would insist herself that she wear a hejab because she wants to then fine ITS HER CHOICE. Women are equals if not superior to men irrespective of what I got taught about Eve and the apple. Sharia law is used to conceal a mans insecurities about women. I was talking to an Egyptian muslim chick here in South Africa and she said that she feels so free coz she can wear what she wants.

That's okay I understand your perspective.

I am strongly against oppression too, especially against women. Sometimes I reflect on the culture in Pakistan and think along the same evolutionary lines. The diversity portrayed in Pakistani media and entertainment television dramas shocks me and many western Pakistani's. A westerner can easily think of it as ethnic cleansing because of the light skinned Turks, Afgans and Iranians that take lead roles. However that is not a true representation the majority of Pakistani's of about 100 million people in Pakistan, which reflect a Indian subcontinent ethnicity, although the original ethnic group of Pakistan may have been different.

There is good and bad everywhere in the world. Bad things happen to girls in Pakistan too as well as in Pakistani communities in the west which the western media is probably still happy to exaggerate and sensationalise and as you say use Sharia law out of context. However in Pakistan village girls tend to be stronger and usually of Punjabi origin so they usually are able to stand up for themselves unlike others.

I agree with you on the hijab issue. Women have to be comfortable with the hijab. They are usually taught these values at home. I can certainly understand how that Egyptian woman you describe feels. As a male it took me nine years to come out of deep depression based on my identity crisis related to culture and religion that many Pakistani's in the west go through. I can't imagine the freedom she would have felt taking off her hijab as long as she practices her hijab in other ways.

The problem also arises when women are brain washed through western popular culture about ideal body shape, breasts etc. Its very much like hypnotism because they use psychological tricks and techniques such as Semiotics in advertising etc.

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10 minutes ago, Murtaza1 said:

That's okay I understand your perspective.

I am strongly against oppression too, especially against women. Sometimes I reflect on the culture in Pakistan and think along the same evolutionary lines. The diversity portrayed in Pakistani media and entertainment television dramas shocks me and many western Pakistani's. A westerner can easily think of it as ethnic cleansing because of the light skinned Turks, Afgans and Iranians that take lead roles. However that is not a true representation the majority of Pakistani's of about 100 million people in Pakistan, which reflect a Indian subcontinent ethnicity, although the original ethnic group of Pakistan may have been different.

There is good and bad everywhere in the world. Bad things happen to girls in Pakistan too as well as in Pakistani communities in the west which the western media is probably still happy to exaggerate and sensationalise and as you say use Sharia law out of context. However in Pakistan village girls tend to be stronger and usually of Punjabi origin so they usually are able to stand up for themselves unlike others.

I agree with you on the hijab issue. Women have to be comfortable with the hijab. They are usually taught these values at home. I can certainly understand how that Egyptian woman you describe feels. As a male it took me nine years to come out of deep depression based on my identity crisis related to culture and religion that many Pakistani's in the west go through. I can't imagine the freedom she would have felt taking off her hijab as long as she practices her hijab in other ways.

The problem also arises when women are brain washed through western popular culture about ideal body shape, breasts etc. Its very much like hypnotism because they use psychological tricks and techniques such as Semiotics in advertising etc.

Im amazed that even in Pakistan there are issues of skin texture. African women will bleach themselves light to look like "yellow bones" you see on American movies. In fact naturally light skinned (because of European genes) African girls are a highly sought commodity. Even mixed race women are the most highly sought after commodities. Notice I used the word "commodity". Im aware of the ethnic realities of Pakistan thanks to a certain author by the name of Tariq Ali. Im also aware that the Indian subcontinent has a highly diverse ethnic reality that manifests itself in caste systems. As a black man Im disgusted coz I know which caste system I'd naturally drop into. Im also aware the original ethnic group disappeared off into India during the independence and partition era some straight into coffins. entire sikh and hindu villages wiped out and vice versa in whichever muslim villages that saw the same fate. 1 million deaths. I read about it. 

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Talk to her. Be sincere. If she wants to work things out she could help you. Maybe she could even try to change and not make you feel as you've been feeling.

What is exactly you want to do ? Do you want to leave her and get married to another person or are you just bored of regular married life. Not saying that you are a bad person.

Just talk to her and try to find a solution. Marriage work both ways. You cannot expect her to do everything you want and certainly she shouldn't be doing whatever she feels like ignoring you. You should find a middle ground.

Men think children are their property but mothers have equal rights on them and maybe even more.

Tell her you are having these thoughts specially if she is a good wife and a good mother. 

May you find peace

 

 

 

 

 

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