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Gabenowa

Conversion to Shi'ism

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Is it okay to convert to a specific religion because one admires intensely? Even though "raised as a Roman Catholic" and even attended "Catholic" schools almost my entire miserable school life led one to be a hardcore committed atheist/agnostic (the two do not make a difference as far as I am concerned). Atheism/Agnosticism is a burden. It's as if one lives life with science and logic without any insight at all into meaning. One commits many sins and hurts a many innocent person without being self-aware at all of this until many years later. One lives life fearing death because as an atheist the process of death is simply incomprehensible. One cannot even pretend to be able to tolerate Christianity especially Catholicism. It's so bad one could not even bear the pretense of celebrating the supposed birthday on the 25th of December of a so-called "son of God". Family relations got destroyed on that day because I could not pretend for a second to give that day meaning because it is as meaningless as the "Holy Bible" itself. Being force-fed Christianity and Catholicism took away my innocence as a child because I was only 7 when I became an atheist even though I did not know that it existed.

I admire Shi'ism, I read a lot into it though I dont understand everything and perhaps never will. I admire that science and philosophy are part and parcel of faith and not a subject at high school or university. I have devoured philosophy all my life and most of the philosophers that I admire are unfortunately atheists. I don't blame them for their atheism. The hypocrisy that goes with force-feeding Catholicism and christ for the purpose of indoctrination has turned many people into rabid serial killers (not me). However devouring Jean Paul-Sartre and Existentialism does not give my mind and soul a place to rest. I don't agree with everything with Shi'ism and I am aware of the whole sectarian politics around it. Hell in my country 3 Shia people were stabbed to death and this is a country in which Islamic politics do not have any place at all. I was never a fan of Islam, all I saw was Wahhabism and the need for people to escape their existential crises by adopting an Arab identity which I despise. I see Shi'ism as quite distinct from Sunni Islam when Sunni Islam is Islam to me and everybody. Is it worth it? Converting? Or should I always admire it from a distance? It wont change my intellect. I'll never pretend to be able to swallow everything without some skepticism about certain aspects because converts who dont question anything tend to become fanatics. Daesh taught me that.

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First let’s expose sunni Islam Islam and show you how much of a terrible sect it is. 

Common sunni beliefs 

don’t research deeply on Islam’s history. 

shia,Christians, jews are all going to hell.

shia are kaffur and are hypocrites. 

Abu baker, Othman and Omar are greater then the family of the prophet. 

 

Now we’re going to expose those three terrorists. Here’s a sermon from imam Ali a.s 

 

btw sunni “islam” not islam it’s literally a terrorist sect which was built by three oppressors. 

 

Since you were a catholic (which is far from Christianity btw) you probably have the wrong thought  about God’s nature and etc. here’s a hadith from imam Ali a.s

 

 

 

what about Shi’a islam do you not agree on?? 

Are you happy with Shi’a islam?

Does Shi’a islam make sense to you? 

You have every right to question anything about Shi’a Islam, you don’t have to hold back anything. 

 

Those who join isis are brainwashed by Sunni scholars, in their mosques they always preach about their barbaric jihad and telling people to leave everything and join Isis. 

 

Most Sunni’s are ignorant of their beliefs and they would be shocked if you show them proofs from their books that Shi’a islam is the true path and sunni “Islam” is built on terrorism. There are some Sunni’s who have converted to Shi’a islam on shiachat and were very upset that sunni scholars have been lying to them and brainshwashing them. 

 

If your interested in hadiths exposing the 3 terrorists and proofing Shi’a Islam is right, I can post some authentic  hadiths from sunni’s. 

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I've read about the shia/sunni split as much as I have read extensively about Islamic history and Arab history. It seems that some aspects of Shi'ism are based on politics and these politics reside in the Arab world. I like Shia Islam, in fact I admire it deeply. I don't understand however why the House of the Prophet is given so much complete worship like it is a monarchy of some sorts. I don't disagree or agree with it to be honest. It's an aspect of Shi'ism I would rather avoid because it is politics especially in the Arab world. In fact I don't look at the Arab world for Shi'ism or even the Islamic Republic of Iran because that is where Shia Islam is at its most political which in my mind cheapens something so beautiful the way the AL-SAUDS have used their Wahhibism to destroy a religion of peace around the world. I look to Shia Islam in India for some sort of guidance. In my humble opinion despite their own local variety of Islam they have perfected Islam in a way I cant explain. In India Shia Islam is devoid of politics and violence. In Iran I admire that their twelver Shi'ism is completely logical and philosophical. 

I admire Shi'ism because it makes intellect, science and philosophy a part of faith. I know all about Sunnism, in fact I see it as just Arab imperialism the way Europeans used Christ as part of their imperialism in Africa and Latin America.  I understand what I need to understand about Shi'ism that is why I admire it so much. I wish I'd discovered it a long time ago. There are not much Shia muslims in my country. Islam is mostly an "Indian" religion in my country and they are mostly Sunni with some Ismailis in a certain port city down a coast on the south.I wont say anything about Ismailis because I dont understand them and they seem like an economic grouping Indian style. I just dont like the politics around Shi'ism. I enjoyed reading about the Fatimid Empire though, wish when I die I can go back in time and go live there probably as a Nubian considering I am Zanj. I read a lot about Shi'ism and it gets very very complicated at the best of times so I read and re-read as much as I can to understand.

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9 hours ago, Anonymous2144 said:

First let’s expose sunni Islam Islam and show you how much of a terrible sect it is. 

Common sunni beliefs 

don’t research deeply on Islam’s history. 

shia,Christians, jews are all going to hell.

shia are kaffur and are hypocrites. 

Abu baker, Othman and Omar are greater then the family of the prophet. 

 

Now we’re going to expose those three terrorists. Here’s a sermon from imam Ali a.s 

 

btw sunni “islam” not islam it’s literally a terrorist sect which was built by three oppressors. 

 

Since you were a catholic (which is far from Christianity btw) you probably have the wrong thought  about God’s nature and etc. here’s a hadith from imam Ali a.s

 

 

 

what about Shi’a islam do you not agree on?? 

Are you happy with Shi’a islam?

Does Shi’a islam make sense to you? 

You have every right to question anything about Shi’a Islam, you don’t have to hold back anything. 

 

Those who join isis are brainwashed by Sunni scholars, in their mosques they always preach about their barbaric jihad and telling people to leave everything and join Isis. 

 

Most Sunni’s are ignorant of their beliefs and they would be shocked if you show them proofs from their books that Shi’a islam is the true path and sunni “Islam” is built on terrorism. There are some Sunni’s who have converted to Shi’a islam on shiachat and were very upset that sunni scholars have been lying to them and brainshwashing them. 

 

If your interested in hadiths exposing the 3 terrorists and proofing Shi’a Islam is right, I can post some authentic  hadiths from sunni’s. 

According to ShiaChat rules, shouldnt this be deleted? 

 

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1 hour ago, BowTie said:

According to ShiaChat rules, shouldnt this be deleted? 

 

Nah not really, it’s plain facts. If you dedicate your time and do a deep research on sunni Islam sect you would see how much of a terrible sect it is. Literally a deceiving sect and with barbaric beliefs. 

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1 hour ago, BowTie said:

According to ShiaChat rules, shouldnt this be deleted? 

 

It's the truth, why do you want it to be deleted? Because you dislike it?.

It is a fact, nothing wrong with it.

Those who are against Aal(asws) e Mohammad(saww), we are not with them. 

Those who thought (Mr. Abu Bakr, Omar and Otthman) that they are greater than Moula Ali(asws), We are not with them.

Those who hurt Prophet(saww) and his(saww) family(asws), we are not with them.

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Brothers,

Please do not lose site of the topic. It is not a sunni bashing topic. I don't need lessons on Sunnism. Sunnism is everywhere. In my country the petrodollars of the Al-Sauds are building lavish mosques all over my godforsaken country because it is so easy to convert to Sunni Islam. It is not an intellectual religion, it is mostly a religion of rituals and bureaucracy just like the way Wahabbi and Taliban practice it. Shia Islam is the faith of the enlightened minds, it is the most enlightened faith I have ever read about. I just don't like the Islamic Republic of Iran with it's 'signs of God' trying to compete somewhat with the Saud family and its Wahhabi priests in turning Shia Islam into a religion of the religious police. It smacks of hypocrisy. The Persians are trying to outIslam the Sauds. Twelver Shi'ism is the most advanced faith I have ever read about. It is like I need to attend school just to understand it and convert. Saying the magic words of conversion is not good enough. It is easier to be born Shia than to convert. At least it is easy to start learning from a young age. I was poisoned with Catholicism from the age of five. I'm still struggling to undo that poison.

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I know about the prophet. Didn't the Crusaders call the religion the religion of the "Mohammedians" back in the centuries? Everyone knows about the prophet even if they don't believe anything he said or recited. I know about the Imamate especially the much venerated Ali and the much-awaited Mahdi. I know how much shrines and tombs of these human beings are visited and cherished. I prefer focusing on the aspects I find most enlightening. I come from a religion and culture where dead men can be "sons of God" and where dead relatives are worshipped. Where science and logic are seen as an irritation. I dont focus on dead people. Isn't that why Shi'ism is always able to evolve because there must always be living Imams who take the faith forward including responding to scientific facts which like science itself constantly ascends and descends? That is what I read. That the living Imams are the authority.

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Salam brother. 

I have gone through your write-up. You have rightly highlited the crises that one face who is Atheist /Agonist. Regarding your question of "is it necessary to belive a religion."

Yes according to shia belief rationality and inteellect is the ist thing which makes one answerable before Allah even if one is not muslim.  

So even if one doesn't have specific religion but one should have minimum belief that there is a creator of universe and one day we have to die..And do righteous actions actions.So that one have some share of salvation. 

There are great scholars in Islam both  (Shia and Sunni) who can help you in understanding the truth and reality. These scholars include Avicenna, Imam Gazali, Mullahs Sadra and Mohhamd Hussain Tabatabie. Mohammad Hussain Tabatabie is the biggest scholar,Philosopher and Arif   in shia Islam .I suggest you to read his works and it will help you a lot. 

I am a born Shia and I do not necessarily dislike or have problem with sunnism. Because most of the basic principles is common in both Shia and sunnism. Except willayah which is  important pillar in shiaism. Even though some of Sunni sect like sofis to believe in willayah  (willayah of Imam Ali).

One more thing is that it is  not necessarily title of being ( Shia or Sunni ) that  matters. But it is  believing in Tawheed ( Monotheism of Allah) that is  important for salvation. Because both Prophethood and willayah  (sainthood) is for guiding people to Tawheed ie Monotheism that is Allah.

So my suggestion is start to believe in Allah who is Merciful, and Compassionate .And Prophethood of Mohhamd saww. 

 

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10 hours ago, Gabenowa said:

I've read about the shia/sunni split as much as I have read extensively about Islamic history and Arab history. It seems that some aspects of Shi'ism are based on politics and these politics reside in the Arab world. I like Shia Islam, in fact I admire it deeply. I don't understand however why the House of the Prophet is given so much complete worship like it is a monarchy of some sorts. I don't disagree or agree with it to be honest. It's an aspect of Shi'ism I would rather avoid because it is politics especially in the Arab world. In fact I don't look at the Arab world for Shi'ism or even the Islamic Republic of Iran because that is where Shia Islam is at its most political which in my mind cheapens something so beautiful the way the AL-SAUDS have used their Wahhibism to destroy a religion of peace around the world. I look to Shia Islam in India for some sort of guidance. In my humble opinion despite their own local variety of Islam they have perfected Islam in a way I cant explain. In India Shia Islam is devoid of politics and violence. In Iran I admire that their twelver Shi'ism is completely logical and philosophical. 

I admire Shi'ism because it makes intellect, science and philosophy a part of faith. I know all about Sunnism, in fact I see it as just Arab imperialism the way Europeans used Christ as part of their imperialism in Africa and Latin America.  I understand what I need to understand about Shi'ism that is why I admire it so much. I wish I'd discovered it a long time ago. There are not much Shia muslims in my country. Islam is mostly an "Indian" religion in my country and they are mostly Sunni with some Ismailis in a certain port city down a coast on the south.I wont say anything about Ismailis because I dont understand them and they seem like an economic grouping Indian style. I just dont like the politics around Shi'ism. I enjoyed reading about the Fatimid Empire though, wish when I die I can go back in time and go live there probably as a Nubian considering I am Zanj. I read a lot about Shi'ism and it gets very very complicated at the best of times so I read and re-read as much as I can to understand.

The basis of the Sunni/Shia split is not really Middle Eastern history or politics. The basis is theological authority after the Prophet (s). In Sunnism, authority basically went to the whole community. Hence, they believe companions were all considered good and just (despite their personal flaws and civil wars), the community selects its caliph (even if that caliph is unqualified and treacherous), and the consensus of the scholars becomes law (even if the scholars are ignorant). In Shiism, authority was transmitted to an individual - the Imam - who is the most knowledgeable, and we say this is closer to Quranic principles.

We don't consider the Ahl al-Bayt to be a monarchy. It's not their bloodline that makes them Imams, it is ultimately their merit. Yes, the Imamate was preserved in a particular family, just as the families of Abraham and Jesus were chosen for prophethood. Otherwise, most Imams were imprisoned, poisoned, poor, and humble servants of God. You may be inspired to read the story of Husayn (as).

I am happy that you admire the use of logic and philosophy in our religion. Unfortunately in many religions, learning and asking tough questions is discouraged. We are the religion of iqra, the first word revealed in the Quran, which means "read!" We are not threatened by knowledge - we believe in proof and faith, and the more you have of one, the more you get from the other.

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May someone please explain the concept of 'TRUTH' in Shia Islam? Is the online school of Islam a Shia Islam online school?

 

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1 hour ago, Gabenowa said:

May someone please explain the concept of 'TRUTH' in Shia Islam? Is the online school of Islam a Shia Islam online school?

Which online school are you referring to?

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Sunni historians reported that: When Umar came to the door of the house of Fatimah, he said: “By Allah, I shall burn down (the house) over you unless you come out and give the oath of allegiance (to Abu baker).”

sunni references: 

-History of Tabari (Arabic), v1,pp 1118-1120

-History of Ibn Athir, v2, p325

-al-Isti’ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p975

-Tarikh al-kulafa, by Ibn Qutaybah,v1, p20

-al-imamah wal-siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp19-20

 

Surah al-Ahzab 33:57

indeed those who torment Allah and His Apostle are cursed by Allah in the world and the hereafter, and He has prepared a humiliating punishment for them. 

Allah’s Apostle said, “Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, make me angry”

Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 57, number 61

”I take Allah and the angles to be my witness that you have not pleased me; on the other hand, you have angered me. When I shall meet the Prophet (pbuh) I will complain about you two.” 

Sunni references:

al-imamah wa al-siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah,v1, p14.

Umar said: “And no doubt after the death of the prophet we were informed that the Ansar disagreed with us and gathered the in the shed of Bani Sa’da. “Ali and Zubair and whoever was with them, opposed us, while the emigrants gathered with Abu baker.”

sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English,v8, Tradition #817

 

Umar said: “Ali Ibn Abi Talib, Zubair Ibn Awwam and those who were with them separated from us (and gathered) in the house of Fatimah, daughter of the Messenger of Allah.”

sunni references:

-Ahmad Ibn hanbal, v1, p55

- Sirah al-nabawiyyah, by Ibn Hisham,v4, p309

-History of Tabari (Arabic),v1, p1822

-History of Tabari, English version, v9, p192

 

Narrated ‘Aisha: (mother of the believers) After the death of Allah’s Apostle Fatimah the daughter of Allah’s Apsotle asked Abu Baker As-Siddiq to give her, her share of inheritance from what Allah's Apostle had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) which Allah had given him. Abu Baker said to her, “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e Prophets) leave is Sadaqa (to be used for charity). “Fatimah, the daughter of Allah’s Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Baker, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatimah remaind alive for six months  after the death of Allah’s Apostle. 

Sahih al-Bukhari, volume 4, Book 53, number 325

 

You judge for yourself how terrible are the so called “rightly guided caliphs” are. These are all authentic narrations from sunni books. 

Edited by Anonymous2144

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3 hours ago, Gabenowa said:

May someone please explain the concept of 'TRUTH' in Shia Islam? Is the online school of Islam a Shia Islam online school?

 

Truth according to Islam and Shia Islam is Allah. The central point of quran and Prophethood is remove the viels so that one acknowledge that what ever exists, all beauty and power is of Allah .

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7 hours ago, Qa'im said:

Which online school are you referring to?

The "Howza" school I am seeing advertised on this site

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There's this troubling tradition/tendency to place so much emphasis on the intra-Islam factional politics of so many centuries ago. Abu bakr did this or Ummar said that or Husayn was beheaded in Karbala because this guy did or said that or Ali was supposed to be Caliph or he was Caliph and got murdered. What does that have anything to do with today? The only comforting facts is that atleast they were real people and everybody agrees that they existed and the historical accounts are not disputed by even the most fanatical Salafi. Where is the concept of truth there? Where is logic and philosophy? Maybe I just need a study package of Shia Islam so I can accept what I accept and reject what I cant help to reject. Certain aspects of the way some people practice this religion reminds me of catholicism. The way Fatima is so venerated reminds me of the way some people are so fanatical about Mary and her statue that people kiss.

 

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33 minutes ago, Gabenowa said:

There's this troubling tradition/tendency to place so much emphasis on the intra-Islam factional politics of so many centuries ago. Abu bakr did this or Ummar said that or Husayn was beheaded in Karbala because this guy did or said that or Ali was supposed to be Caliph or he was Caliph and got murdered. What does that have anything to do with today? The only comforting facts is that atleast they were real people and everybody agrees that they existed and the historical accounts are not disputed by even the most fanatical Salafi. Where is the concept of truth there? Where is logic and philosophy? Maybe I just need a study package of Shia Islam so I can accept what I accept and reject what I cant help to reject. Certain aspects of the way some people practice this religion reminds me of catholicism. The way Fatima is so venerated reminds me of the way some people are so fanatical about Mary and her statue that people kiss.

 

If you are coming to Shia Islam from Christianity, you will see a bunch of overlap. Sometimes Shias have a tendancy to get away from the Creator and focus more on the creation. I’m not sure how far you are into your conversion, but you will see what I am talking about as you get your feet wet.

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32 minutes ago, Gabenowa said:

There's this troubling tradition/tendency to place so much emphasis on the intra-Islam factional politics of so many centuries ago. Abu bakr did this or Ummar said that or Husayn was beheaded in Karbala because this guy did or said that or Ali was supposed to be Caliph or he was Caliph and got murdered. What does that have anything to do with today? The only comforting facts is that atleast they were real people and everybody agrees that they existed and the historical accounts are not disputed by even the most fanatical Salafi. Where is the concept of truth there? Where is logic and philosophy? Maybe I just need a study package of Shia Islam so I can accept what I accept and reject what I cant help to reject. Certain aspects of the way some people practice this religion reminds me of catholicism. The way Fatima is so venerated reminds me of the way some people are so fanatical about Mary and her statue that people kiss.

 

Brother I think you know enough to lead prosperous life here and salvation in next life. 

The intersect politics has not much to do with truth. 

So believe  the most important pillar of Islam that Monotheism  (unity of Allah ).And Allah will guide you. 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, 786:) said:

If you are coming to Shia Islam from Christianity, you will see a bunch of overlap. Sometimes Shias have a tendancy to get away from the Creator and focus more on the creation. I’m not sure how far you are into your conversion, but you will see what I am talking about as you get your feet wet.

What do mean by shias have tendency to focus on creation and not creator. 

Definitely you are ignorant from Shia concept of Tawheed. 

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2 minutes ago, islam25 said:

What do mean by shias have tendency to focus on creation and not creator. 

Definitely you are ignorant from Shia concept of Tawheed. 

I am talking about application—not concept.

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49 minutes ago, Gabenowa said:

There's this troubling tradition/tendency to place so much emphasis on the intra-Islam factional politics of so many centuries ago. Abu bakr did this or Ummar said that or Husayn was beheaded in Karbala because this guy did or said that or Ali was supposed to be Caliph or he was Caliph and got murdered. What does that have anything to do with today? The only comforting facts is that atleast they were real people and everybody agrees that they existed and the historical accounts are not disputed by even the most fanatical Salafi. Where is the concept of truth there? Where is logic and philosophy? Maybe I just need a study package of Shia Islam so I can accept what I accept and reject what I cant help to reject. Certain aspects of the way some people practice this religion reminds me of catholicism. The way Fatima is so venerated reminds me of the way some people are so fanatical about Mary and her statue that people kiss.

 

Which these videos about God and His creation 

Edited by Anonymous2144

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Dear Shia-to-be Christian.

After reading some people trying to explain to you what Shiism is on this thread. I can assure you, many are full of hatred, ignorance, uneducation, unknowledgeable, and emotional. They are against everything that Allah, our Prophet, and our Imams stand for.

If you decide to convert to the Shiism that they teach you, then please remain a Christian.

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7 minutes ago, 786:) said:

I am talking about application—not concept.

That is true. No one can apply the true meaning of Tawheed in ones life. 

And this inability of applying Tawheed  is not restricted only to shia but all mankind ,. 

Except awliyas whose all actions based on Tawheed and directed towards achieving proximity of Allah. 

Edited by islam25

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12 minutes ago, islam25 said:

That is true. No one can apply the true meaning of Tawheed in ones life. 

And this is not restricted only to shia but all mankind. 

Except awliyas whose all actions based on Tawheed and directed towards achieving proximity of Allah. 

I agree with this. I was talking more about the cultural practices. For example, “Ya Ali Madad” is what an average Shia says in the time of need. This is a hinderence on Tawheed in my opinion. You may or may not agree, but these such cultural practices are what I was pointing out to the brother converting.

Edited by 786:)

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3 minutes ago, 786:) said:

I agree with this. I was talking more about the cultural practices. For example, “Ya Ali Madad” is what an average Shia says in the time of need. This is a hinderence on Tawheed in my opinion. You may or may not agree, but these such cultural practices is what I was pointing out to the brother converting.

Yes. Asking help from anyone other than Allah compromise Tawheed. 

Even though if one will ask help from living one  as independent of Allah. 

Asking help from Ali or Prophets is only that are intercedor before Allah. Ultimate and independent help is only from Allah. Other than Allah there is no help in this world or other. 

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13 minutes ago, BowTie said:

Dear Shia-to-be Christian.

After reading some people trying to explain to you what Shiism is on this thread. I can assure you, many are full of hatred, ignorance, uneducation, unknowledgeable, and emotional. They are against everything that Allah, our Prophet, and our Imams stand for.

If you decide to convert to the Shiism that they teach you, then please remain a Christian.

I am an atheist/agnostic bra. Except I am tired of living without insight. I think the hatred, ignorance etc etc you mentioned has to do more with their local cultures than the religion. One of the most fascinating facts of Islam I have discovered is that in each individual local setting influences the practice of the religion. Example I have found the twelver Shiism practiced in Iran to be the most scientifically advanced Islamic practice and indeed religion anywhere in the world. I am not a fan however of any religion being used to run a country. Having said that, what influences the Islamic Republic of Iran is their advanced Persian culture. Persians are a gift to the world. Their pre-Islamic inventions merged with Shiism to create a wonderful sect of Islam, the most advanced. At the same time I have found Indian Shiism to be the most mystical strain of Islam I never thought could exist because I thought Islam was Wahhabi-Salafi. The type that created Al-Qaeda, the Taliban and Daesh. Indian Shiism is influenced by the most mystical Sufi's. You wont find Sufism that mystical anywhere in the world. and I never even been to India. That is because Indian Islam is influenced by Hinduism. Indians are a mystical people. Its who they are. What I dont see in Indian Shiism is science. So everybody on Shiachat just like all Shia's all over the world are influenced by their local setting such as what they have been taught, their culture and upbringing. Even Nationalism plays a part. I found Shia Islam because my own culture and the Catholics who "educated" me let me down. My culture and my Catholic upbringing has no concept of truth. In fact I discovered that within myself I have no truth which is why I started reading deeply into Shiism because I read somewhere that the concept of truth in the Koran is powerful but it has been destroyed by the mullahs.

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Tawassul is one thing brother, but “Ya Ali Madad” is another. Proper tawassul: Ya Allah help me for the sake of Imam Ali. You cannot sugarcoat Ya Ali Madad into tawassul. If this were the case, we would have narrations of the Imams using it in their daily life.

anyways, this is derailing the topic. It is just an easy example to pick from since it is so prevalent in the Shia culture.

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10 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Tawassul is one thing brother, but “Ya Ali Madad” is another. Proper tawassul: Ya Allah help me for the sake of Imam Ali. You cannot sugarcoat Ya Ali Madad into tawassul. If this were the case, we would have narrations of the Imams using it in their daily life.

anyways, this is derailing the topic. It is just an easy example to pick from since it is so prevalent in the Shia culture.

There is no problem as asking imam Ali (as) directly. 

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1 minute ago, 786:) said:

Tawassul is one thing brother, but “Ya Ali Madad” is another. Proper tawassul: Ya Allah help me for the sake of Imam Ali. You cannot sugarcoat Ya Ali Madad into tawassul. If this were the case, we would have narrations of the Imams using it in their daily life.

anyways, this is derailing the topic. It is just an easy example to pick from since it is so prevalent in the Shia culture.

Thank you. "Shia culture" is not the same as faith but it is still faith if people believe it because that is faith. Faith is blind. No matter how illogical it is at times it is still faith. Which proves that the practice of Islam even Shiism is influenced by local beliefs. It is no different to Catholic saints I was forced to say out loud in prayer even though I never understood what these European saints of a thousand years ago had to do with me a mere Zanj in Africa. I don't know much about 'Ali' except I see that he is excessively venerated in Shia Islam which confuses me and is unfortunate. Yes I know Ali was against injustice and when I read words directly quoted from him I can immediately tell he was a human being incredibly gifted with wisdom and at the same time encouraging of scientific enquiry. Which is amazing for a human being who lived in a time when scientifically curious human beings were burnt alive. The excessive worshiping of him however is so similar to the worshipping of Jesus that I cannot find myself even acknowledging him as a prophet in Islam. I couldnt even mention him with his Arabic name. I'll never pray to Ali.

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1 hour ago, islam25 said:

Yes. Asking help from anyone other than Allah compromise Tawheed. 

Even though if one will ask help from living one  as independent of Allah. 

Asking help from Ali or Prophets is only that are intercedor before Allah. Ultimate and independent help is only from Allah. Other than Allah there is no help in this world or other. 

In your daily life you don't ask help to anyone except Allah? 

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