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In the Name of God بسم الله

Lineage

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Imagine my Grand Grand Grand ancestors from Fathers side are arabs but he feels turk

only from a Shia ahlulbayt Point of view:

if my ancestors from syria migrated to Turkey and than to Germany 

And i speak Turkish and german

but only from Original ahlulbayt view: Would we be Counted as

1.) arabs because our lineage is arab,

2.)Turkish because our Culture today

3.) or german cause we live in german 

because I Heard a sunni sheikh wants sayin

„if you are palastinism and your Grand Grand Grand children in whatever Generation are Born Whereever... always will be palestinian“ 

and is it right that „the 313 will get swords where their lineage is written“

(I don’t have the Source for the hadith sorry )

than i think we should never forget our „“real““ Family background?!?

salam and thx for help!!

:)

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4 hours ago, GermanShia said:

Imagine my Grand Grand Grand ancestors from Fathers side are arabs but he feels turk

only from a Shia ahlulbayt Point of view:

if my ancestors from syria migrated to Turkey and than to Germany 

And i speak Turkish and german

but only from Original ahlulbayt view: Would we be Counted as

1.) arabs because our lineage is arab,

2.)Turkish because our Culture today

3.) or german cause we live in german 

because I Heard a sunni sheikh wants sayin

„if you are palastinism and your Grand Grand Grand children in whatever Generation are Born Whereever... always will be palestinian“ 

and it is right that „the 313 will get swords where their lineage is written“

(I don’t have the Source for the hadith sorry )

than i think we should never forget our „“real““ Family background?!?

salam and thx for help!!

:)

:salam:

A sword could never be long enough to bear a whole lineage. Hadith must refer to something symbolic.

Interesting question though...

Edited by realizm
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8 hours ago, GermanShia said:

and is it right that „the 313 will get swords where their lineage is written“

(I don’t have the Source for the hadith sorry )

Salam. The hadith does not mention lineage (Arab, Turk, etc.) of the holy 313, but the names (of each soldier and his father's name) will be on the swords. 

Quote

Imam as-Sadiq (‘a) said: “When our Qa’im stages the uprising, the swords of combat will descend—on each of which the name and father’s name of each of the combatants will be written.”5

https://www.al-islam.org/printpdf/book/export/html/9770

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13 hours ago, realizm said:

:salam:

A sword could never be long enough to bear a whole lineage. Hadith must refer to something symbolic.

Interesting question though...

Salam i think it refers that imam Mahdi (aj) & his amy won't use mass murdering weapons & their battle will be one by one like as Imam Hussain (as) 

18 hours ago, GermanShia said:

than i think we should never forget our „“real““ Family background?!?

it's good until it doesn't cause fake pride even some great shias were from Ummayid tribe but they don't hold their family background

it's a fmous story that Sa'ad son Abdul Aziz ibn Mrwan (la) entered to Imam Sadiq (as) as he was crying when Imam asked from him why are you crying he said why i don't cry while i'm from cursed tree ,imam replied him " لَسْتَ مِنْهُمْ أَنْتَ أُمَوِی مِنَّا أَهْلَ الْبَیت  " you are not an Ummayid you are from us Ahlulbayt " didn't you read that prophet Ibrahim said in Holy Quran

رَبِّ إِنَّهُنَّ أَضْلَلْنَ كَثِيرًا مِّنَ النَّاسِ ۖ فَمَن تَبِعَنِي فَإِنَّهُ مِنِّي ۖ وَمَنْ عَصَانِي فَإِنَّكَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ ﴿٣٦﴾

My Lord! surely they have led many men astray; then whoever follows me, he is surely of me, and whoever disobeys me, Thou surely are Forgiving, Merciful: (36)

http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.shakir/14:36

it  is also said most of 313 & army of Imam Mahdi are from Ajam (non Arabs) & number of Arabs in his army very little like as salt in food & some of 313 will come to him while they were sleeping in their beds before that means this 313 are from all around the world but Iraninas have great portion of them so their responsibility of them is more than others that we must be more responsile than any shias 

and about rising sun from west is saying that it means spreading shia islam in western countries & rise of shias from western countries that source of their knowledge comes from Qom 

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@Ashvazdanghe

First of all you are helpful as always!! :)

maybe i wrote to Not understandable my real cause

let me Point it out like that:

-> “How many generations one can Go back in islam to call himself After a lineage“

1.)

you see ,technical i have arabic dna

if we say you will be always counted After blood of your Father than im arab 

2.) theoritical my Father would never Respect denying our Turkish background

3.) practically im Born Here and its my homeland 

So to point out for you my main idea behind asking is :

how is ahlulbayt method for lineage“

->

1.) dna ?

2.) culture ?

3.) birthplace /(feeling)?

Hope my cause is understandable

so let me say what you mentioned about the 313 is very very interesting and I learnt something new 

but since I’m from Sunni family I of course always learn a lot so thanks for that 

on the other side it’s not only because of the 313 topic why I am asking because also the topic of sayyids was and the mentioned Palestinian sheikh was a point that made me ask.

because the Sunni sheikh said even after (I think he mentioned 100 generations) you are still counted as Palestinian if your ancestors were

and sayyids were the first which made me think about it 

because I never heard someone tracing lineage back for so many years

so I wondered his lineage is categorized in Shia Islam 

hope I made it more clear in my English :)

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###

t's good until it doesn't cause fake pride even some great shias were from Ummayid tribe but they don't hold their family background

it's a fmous story that Sa'ad son Abdul Aziz ibn Mrwan (la) entered to Imam Sadiq (as) as he was crying when Imam asked from him why are you crying he said why i don't cry while i'm from cursed tree ,imam replied him " لَسْتَ مِنْهُمْ أَنْتَ أُمَوِی مِنَّا أَهْلَ الْبَیت  " you are not an Ummayid you are from us Ahlulbayt " didn't you read that prophet Ibrahim said in Holy Quran

###

i read your post . Does it mean the Shia background is rather that we are from ahlilbayt as?

i don’t know if I really understood :)

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My background is from two different erhnicity in Afghanistan but I never identify myself as one of them my entire life it was a natural preference not to identify as one them rather use the general term afghan, but now I would rather identify myself as Shia Muslim then one of those, I feel more Muslim then one of those.

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15 hours ago, GermanShia said:

how is ahlulbayt method for lineage“

->

1.) dna ?

2.) culture ?

3.) birthplace /(feeling)?

Hope my cause is understandable

Salam non of them is their method ,their method for lineage is your love & obedience toward them in Karbala  , people were from all races & classes but some freemen stood against Imam of their time & some low class slaves stood for him one of best examples is  slave in name of 'Jawn'(ra) that wasn't from any prominent tribe or race , he was really " nothing" in eyes of others but when he martyred Imam Hussain (as) mourned & made dua for him like as his grand son Martyr Ali akbar (ra)

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Jawn_b._Huway

being Persian/Iranian don't make you atomically higher than any shia or soldier of Imam Mahdi (aj) for this we must act like as Salman Farsi (ra) that prophet Muhammad (pbu) said about say to him Salman Mohamadi because he is one of us .

1.)dna : is not 100% accurate also all of us has same genes but differnce is just in percentage of genes that makes difference

2.) culture : shapes our identity but stops here rest of it depends on our understanding 

3.) birthplace /(feeling) : is not very important there is some Iranians that born in Iran & culturally attach to it but they don't love Ahlulbayt (as) in other hand a persom may born in a Nasibi family but loves Ahlulbayt (as) 

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