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In the Name of God بسم الله

Why Shirk?

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Salam to all honorable members. I have asked this question on sundry forums but I have never received any satisfactory response or you can say an eloquent response. The question is , what is the wisdom or philosophy behind shirk being the worst crime imaginable? I mean there are several other heinous crimes which appear far more grotesque than shirk but still according to Islam shirk is the worst crime in the eyes of Allah. Why it is that so? Let us consider a hypothetical scenario, there is a person who believes in an anthropomorphic deity but at the same time he is a great philanthropist. Now there is another person whose concept of tawheed is immaculately aligned with the teachings of tashayyu but at the same time he is a murderer. Now , according to Islamic principles it is the former person who is the worst criminal in the court of Allah not the latter one. I am unable to decipher the wisdom behind this scenario. I will appreciate inputs from members. Thanking you in advance. I hope I will receive the best answer from this forum as it has never disappointed me ever. Jazak Allah.


@Qa'im @Intellectual Resistance @SoRoUsH

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Salam.

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وَما خَلَقتُ الجِنَّ وَالإِنسَ إِلّا لِيَعبُدونِ

I did not create the jinn and the humans except that they worship Me. - Quran 51:56

 

The fundamental nature and essence of a human being is tawhid.

Shirk is associating partners with Allah, the polar opposite of tawhid.

Therefore shirk is against the nature and essence of a human being, and therefore the farthest away from God and the greatest sin.

 

When you use a murderer as an example, it really depends on the type of murderer.

A murderer may have murdered out of ignorance, out of revenge, out of transient extreme emotion, etc.  The murderer in this way may have retained some humanity within oneself. There have been many who have murdered who have become reformed, deeply regret their actions, and would never do it again without appropriate justification. Clearly, they still have retained some humanity.

However, shirk is to completely discard/reject one’s humanity, purpose of existence, essence, etc.

If you bring forth the example of a guiltless mass murderer who claims belief in Allah/does not associate partners, this becomes a paradox. It is not possible to be the perfect monotheist in belief, yet commit that which goes against that belief repeatedly and without remorse. Such actions indicate that the claimed belief is false. Therefore, such a person ultimately rejects Allah in some way whether he admits to it/realizes it or not, indicating shirk.

When a person is committing shirk, Allah wants that person to know they are in the most precarious situation a person can be in since they are engaging in the root of all evil (by evil, here, I mean that which puts you farthest away from God). So by stating shirk is the greatest sin, people are called to attention to reflect on that which they are committing so that they reform, otherwise they have no chance for forgiveness once dead.

I am not very eloquent, so inshallah there will certainly be eloquent answers from other members! =)

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17 minutes ago, dragonxx said:

 

Salam.

The fundamental nature and essence of a human being is tawhid.

Shirk is associating partners with Allah, the polar opposite of tawhid.

Therefore shirk is against the nature and essence of a human being, and therefore the farthest away from God and the greatest sin.

 

When you use a murderer as an example, it really depends on the type of murderer.

A murderer may have murdered out of ignorance, out of revenge, out of transient extreme emotion, etc.  The murderer in this way may have retained some humanity within oneself. There have been many who have murdered who have become reformed, deeply regret their actions, and would never do it again without appropriate justification. Clearly, they still have retained some humanity.

However, shirk is to completely discard/reject one’s humanity, purpose of existence, essence, etc.

If you bring forth the example of a guiltless mass murderer who claims belief in Allah/does not associate partners, this becomes a paradox. It is not possible to be the perfect monotheist in belief, yet commit that which goes against that belief repeatedly and without remorse. Such actions indicate that the claimed belief is false. Therefore, such a person ultimately rejects Allah in some way whether he admits to it/realizes it or not, indicating shirk.

When a person is committing shirk, Allah wants that person to know they are in the most precarious situation a person can be in since they are engaging in the root of all evil (by evil, here, I mean that which puts you farthest away from God). So by stating shirk is the greatest sin, people are called to attention to reflect on that which they are committing so that they reform, otherwise they have no chance for forgiveness once dead.

I am not very eloquent, so inshallah there will certainly be eloquent answers from other members! =)

 

Beautifully said brother

its a crime against yourself most of all too

 

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@Goswami

Shirk is a sin against Allah. Murder and such acts are sins against man. 

Also, an aspect of sin also looks at who the sin is being committed against. You could sell intellectual property to a third party and it might be a civil suit. You could sell state secrets to another country and be tried for treason. Similar crime but different punishments.

Crimes against Allah and crimes against man  are incomparable.

 

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I am a Sunni and new to this forum but I will throw my two cents in if it helps dispel doubts about Allah SWT.

Let's start from the foundations and reflect:

In the first place, why do you consider things like murder (for example) to be wrong? Unless you are a vegan or vegetarian, why would you kill animals and eat meat (or at the very least object less to their death) but you would  strongly emotionally object to killing and eating humans? 

The answer to the above is because you give humanbeings some kind of value, or perhaps a higher value than other animals. The reason for this could be arbitrary and made up, or it could because humans have advanced faculties compared to other animals, or merely because we are all the same species - it really doesn't matter why, but whatever answer you give will be random and based on emotion rather than because it is fundamentally true. Nonetheless, if human beings have value, and committing crimes against another being is bad in proportion to their value, then what about Allah SWT - the Creator, Rabbul Aalameen, the First and the Last, the Giver of Life and Death - is his value not more than all of mankind put together? So if you commit an injustice (theft, murder, oppression etc) against a man, it is bad; if you commit an injustice against multiple people, then it is even worse; if you committed a crime against all of mankind, then surely you would deserve the depths hell; so if you were to commit a crime and an injustice against Allah SWT - who is greater than all of creation put together, whose value is higher than all things - then certainly that is the most grevious of crimes which is more derserving of Hell than murder or rape or theft. As the saying goes (rough quote): do not think of the sin, think of the One you are sinning against.

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 Let us consider a hypothetical scenario, there is a person who believes in an anthropomorphic deity but at the same time he is a great philanthropist.

Now there is another person whose concept of tawheed is immaculately aligned with the teachings of tashayyu but at the same time he is a murderer.

In Your Hypothetical Scenarios, your assumptions are flawed. If you feed this data in to the  computer, your computer (CPU) will produce wrong results. Illogical data can't produce logical results. 

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13 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

@Goswami

Shirk is a sin against Allah. Murder and such acts are sins against man. 

Also, an aspect of sin also looks at who the sin is being committed against. You could sell intellectual property to a third party and it might be a civil suit. You could sell state secrets to another country and be tried for treason. Similar crime but different punishments.

Crimes against Allah and crimes against man  are incomparable.

 

Every sin is ultimately against Allah. This very dichotomy of sinning against Allah and sinning against His creation is sham. When we sin against Allah's creations then we are violating His commandments. So , eventually it is a sin against Allah too . Hence , the argument is invalid. 

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15 hours ago, Ralvi said:

Beautifully said brother

its a crime against yourself most of all too

 

Every vile deed is a crime against your soul. Just like a physical action has its reward in naturalistic realm likewise an action has its reward in metaphysical realm. Every vile deed earns us a Divine Wrath upon our souls , concomitantly our souls are polluted. So, shirk is no exception. Hence , this argument is also invalid. 

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9 hours ago, S.M.H.A. said:

In Your Hypothetical Scenarios, your assumptions are flawed. If you feed this data in to the  computer, your computer (CPU) will produce wrong results. Illogical data can't produce logical results. 

No this is not flawed because we have plethora of such examples from our daily life for instance Sir Ganga Ram who was a Hindu Mushrik ; he built colleges , schools and hospitals. Thousands of Muslims are treated in his hospital gratis even to this day but guess what? Sir Ganga Ram will be eternally damned for being a Mushrik while a Monotheist who blows himself up in public has  a better chance of salvation since he is not a mushriq. 

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1 hour ago, Goswami said:

Every sin is ultimately against Allah. This very dichotomy of sinning against Allah and sinning against His creation is sham. When we sin against Allah's creations then we are violating His commandments. So , eventually it is a sin against Allah too . Hence , the argument is invalid. 

That is not true. Allah forgives sins against Allah but Allah does not forgive sins against man unless the victim forgives the sinner. So there is a difference.

Allah can/does punish for both but they are different.

Edited by ShiaMan14
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Now there is another person whose concept of tawheed is immaculately aligned with the teachings of tashayyu but at the same time he is a murderer. 

Have you read this Letter, 

Letter 53: An order to Malik al-Ashtar

Written1 for (Malik) al-Ashtar an-Nakha'i, when the position of Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr had become precarious, and Amir al-mu'minin had appointed al- Ashtar as the Governor of Egypt and the surrounding areas;

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-53-order-malik-al-ashtar

 

Quote

since they are of two kinds, either your brother in religion or one like you in creation

So, your assumptions are flawed. Your statement above will become an illogical fallacy. 

Edited by S.M.H.A.
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2 hours ago, Goswami said:

while a Monotheist who blows himself up in public has  a better chance of salvation since he is not a mushriq. 

Illogical assumption. Based on above post. Your data is flawed, but you insist on driving to conclusions based on your flawed data/ideas/assumptions/stereotype/branding. 

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 he built colleges , schools and hospitals. 

People do this kind of work for various reason, personal image, political gain, tax relief, Branding themselves for any number of reason for personal /political/corporate benefit. 

It also depends on how they acquired this Wealth or land or property, legal or illegal means. 

A Persona/entity/business/( King, Prince, state), who built his empire by raiding other villages and towns or cities. A corporate raider who destroys companies and lively hood of many families, or a state which acquires wealth and land by destroying many in its quest to rule. 

If any one of these build something on a usurped land or uses the wealth gain from usurped property builds a hospital or a school or  place of worship etc.. where some may benefit is a wrong criteria and in a holistic sense is a crime. Net result of many who were negatively  impacted and some  others who gain benefit along with his own population. 

So, you need to properly qualify you assumptions in an holistic way. 

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1 hour ago, ShiaMan14 said:

That is not true. Allah forgives sins against Allah but Allah does not forgive sins against man unless the victim forgives the sinner. So there is a difference.

Allah can/does punish for both but they are different.

Why doesn't He forgive shirk?

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19 hours ago, Goswami said:

The question is , what is the wisdom or philosophy behind shirk being the worst crime imaginable?

You market yourself as a "Religion: Secular Humanism" . 

To have a proper conversation, not a high school debate on a set topic with out proper understanding of your ideas and understanding- your way of thinking/living- Your Religion. 

Will not benefit anyone. So, If you do not think this is a distraction, ( in a high school debate, it might be) this is a fundamental and basic issue that we need to discuss before going to the next level. its kind of prerequisite for a proper conversation. 

But its your call, you can ignore this and continue.

Who and What is a Secular Humanist ? 

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8 minutes ago, S.M.H.A. said:

People do this kind of work for various reason, personal image, political gain, tax relief, Branding themselves for any number of reason for personal /political/corporate benefit. 

It also depends on how they acquired this Wealth or land or property, legal or illegal means. 

A Persona/entity/business/( King, Prince, state), who built his empire by raiding other villages and towns or cities. A corporate raider who destroys companies and lively hood of many families, or a state which acquires wealth and land by destroying many in its quest to rule. 

If any one of these build something on a usurped land or uses the wealth gain from usurped property builds a hospital or a school or  place of worship etc.. where some may benefit is a wrong criteria and in a holistic sense is a crime. Net result of many who were negatively  impacted and some  others who gain benefit along with his own population. 

So, you need to properly qualify you assumptions in an holistic way. 

This is nothing but a mere assumption rather a judgmental assumption which has been criticized by Imams (as). There is also a Hindu doctor who has been treating patients free of cost since decades but again you will blame her for some ulterior motives. 

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2 minutes ago, S.M.H.A. said:

You market yourself as a "Religion: Secular Humanism" . 

To have a proper conversation, not a high school debate on a set topic with out proper understanding of your ideas and understanding- your way of thinking/living- Your Religion. 

Will not benefit anyone. So, If you do not think this is a distraction, ( in a high school debate, it might be) this is a fundamental and basic issue that we need to discuss before going to the next level. its kind of prerequisite for a proper conversation. 

But its your call, you can ignore this and continue.

Who and What is a Secular Humanist ? 

That is none of your business. If you have nothing constructive to contribute toward the thread then simply don't engage in this discussion. 

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1 minute ago, S.M.H.A. said:

Fine, you made this decision . You were given an option to have a proper conversation. 

You may assume whatever you want but I am not going to respond you from now onward. No offence brother , but this isn't helping. May Ali (as) bless you . 

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15 hours ago, Ar.alhindi said:

I am a Sunni and new to this forum but I will throw my two cents in if it helps dispel doubts about Allah SWT.

Let's start from the foundations and reflect:

In the first place, why do you consider things like murder (for example) to be wrong? Unless you are a vegan or vegetarian, why would you kill animals and eat meat (or at the very least object less to their death) but you would  strongly emotionally object to killing and eating humans? 

The answer to the above is because you give humanbeings some kind of value, or perhaps a higher value than other animals. The reason for this could be arbitrary and made up, or it could because humans have advanced faculties compared to other animals, or merely because we are all the same species - it really doesn't matter why, but whatever answer you give will be random and based on emotion rather than because it is fundamentally true. Nonetheless, if human beings have value, and committing crimes against another being is bad in proportion to their value, then what about Allah SWT - the Creator, Rabbul Aalameen, the First and the Last, the Giver of Life and Death - is his value not more than all of mankind put together? So if you commit an injustice (theft, murder, oppression etc) against a man, it is bad; if you commit an injustice against multiple people, then it is even worse; if you committed a crime against all of mankind, then surely you would deserve the depths hell; so if you were to commit a crime and an injustice against Allah SWT - who is greater than all of creation put together, whose value is higher than all things - then certainly that is the most grevious of crimes which is more derserving of Hell than murder or rape or theft. As the saying goes (rough quote): do not think of the sin, think of the One you are sinning against.

:salam:

Thanks for your input bro & welcome to shiachat, just wanna say no need to say you are Sunni before your answer because Ayatollah Sistani (shiite Grand Marja) says do not say Sunnis are our brothers, rather they are our nafs (ourselves).

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20 hours ago, Goswami said:

Salam to all honorable members. I have asked this question on sundry forums but I have never received any satisfactory response or you can say an eloquent response. The question is , what is the wisdom or philosophy behind shirk being the worst crime imaginable? I mean there are several other heinous crimes which appear far more grotesque than shirk but still according to Islam shirk is the worst crime in the eyes of Allah. Why it is that so? Let us consider a hypothetical scenario, there is a person who believes in an anthropomorphic deity but at the same time he is a great philanthropist. Now there is another person whose concept of tawheed is immaculately aligned with the teachings of tashayyu but at the same time he is a murderer. Now , according to Islamic principles it is the former person who is the worst criminal in the court of Allah not the latter one. I am unable to decipher the wisdom behind this scenario. I will appreciate inputs from members. Thanking you in advance. I hope I will receive the best answer from this forum as it has never disappointed me ever. Jazak Allah.


@Qa'im @Intellectual Resistance @SoRoUsH

Salam,

I have heard this concept being talked about in this way:

What is worse, chopping off a tree or chopping off a leg?

Now, what is worse the destruction of mankind or the destruction of the universe?

Now, what is worse the infringement of rights of a human being or the infringement of the rights of He who created the universe, “the heavens and the earth and that which is between them”.

You mentioned that any sinful act would be against Allah. I think this is not a direct crime against Him or His attributes so it may not be considered as such.  

Sorry for going on a tangent past this point:

Before we ask these questions I think we need to ask ourselves who’s knowledge is finite and who’s knowledge is infinite (Allah’s). So we can only try our best to rationalise His punishments given the “liberal” mentality being pushed down our throats. Thus the statement that “I don’t agree with this rule so Islam is false” is a false premise. On the contrary I do agree if a unequivocally theology encourages its believers to do something that is against the innate disposition of humans (I,e, commit murder) then that theology can be dismissed as a false one.

However, if you are a non Muslim then I believe that you should first take the route to questioning whether the Quran and Islam is true by analysing the theological evidences (scientific, historical) suggesting that it is, or you can take an emotional route, or perhaps you can take a spiritual / experiential route through prayer/ worship or reflection.

I hope this helps.. 

Layman..

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the understanding of the concept of shirk vs tawheed is much deeper than the common understanding of associating partners or associates with God... indirectly every sin and evil involves an element of shirk and is based on shirk and true tawheed is the prevention of it. God forbids evil and permits Good things hence all forbidden acts are evil and since there is a direct relation between committing evil and shirk then this means God has installed a system that prevents all evil. example selfishness, love of dunya , following the desire , as the philosophers said the love of dunya is the root of evils and in this case the dunya is the shareek ( associate ) with God which took precedence . same with loving the self on the cost of gods law which causes all conflicts in the world like racism supremacy ideology etc the other aspect is the Truth and its importance as lie and hiding the truth (KUFR) is the root of all evil then the cause of all causes has no equivalent so making his creations equivalents to him is going against the truth and this is important too

so basically tawheed is a key to a complete system with an objective truth and not only a philosophy but it is reflected on defining moral code and law in life in the form of worships and transactions in life. When a criminal commits a big crime for sure he is a mushrik regardless of what he claims because he gave precedence to his own desire over Gods law,

Copied , This is the answer I was looking for. 

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1 hour ago, Ejaz said:

:salam:

Thanks for your input bro & welcome to shiachat, just wanna say no need to say you are Sunni before your answer because Ayatollah Sistani (shiite Grand Marja) says do not say Sunnis are our brothers, rather they are our nafs (ourselves).

Allah SWT said that when we do something, we should say "Indeed I am of the Muslims", and it reflects upon our community, so in like I stated I am Sunni so it reflects better upon my community within Islam InshaAllah

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1 hour ago, Goswami said:

Why doesn't He forgive shirk?

Key part of forgiveness is repentance. Key part of repentance is not to repeat the sin. So Allah definitely forgives the person who stops committing shirk and is repentant for having committed shirk.

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5 hours ago, Ar.alhindi said:

The answer is incorrect - to say major sins make you a Kafir (which that quote effectively says in the last paragraph) is a Khariji belief, not an orthodox one. 

I agree that that answer doesn't seem to be correct...

Quote

 

God forbids evil and permits Good things hence all forbidden acts are evil and since there is a direct relation between committing evil and shirk then this means God has installed a system that prevents all evil.

 

Quote

 

When a criminal commits a big crime for sure he is a mushrik regardless of what he claims because he gave precedence to his own desire over Gods law,

 

The quote seems to assert every sin is ultimately associated with shirk. If that is the case, there really is no reason to emphasize that shirk is the greatest sin in Islam if all sins are associated with it.

It's strange because I do recall that if a person refrains from major sins throughout his life, all his minor sins will be forgiven automatically. 

It's also funny that in the above two quotes, first the person said all forbidden acts are evil, and evil has a direct relation with shirk (making all evil shirk), but then he goes on to say only "big" crimes make a person mushrik... So do minor sins make a person mushrik or not?

Anyway, I can agree (as I have alluded to in my first post), that if a person repeatedly commits major crimes without remorse despite claiming a monotheistic belief, he is being dishonest about his belief intentionally or unintentionally. But the stretch that that paragraph has made on top of this conclusion is too much, there needs to be a balance.

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15 hours ago, Goswami said:

Every vile deed is a crime against your soul. Just like a physical action has its reward in naturalistic realm likewise an action has its reward in metaphysical realm. Every vile deed earns us a Divine Wrath upon our souls , concomitantly our souls are polluted. So, shirk is no exception. Hence , this argument is also invalid. 

I do not know what you’re trying to say? What is invalidating what?

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On 12/29/2018 at 1:33 PM, Goswami said:

Salam to all honorable members. I have asked this question on sundry forums but I have never received any satisfactory response or you can say an eloquent response. The question is , what is the wisdom or philosophy behind shirk being the worst crime imaginable? I mean there are several other heinous crimes which appear far more grotesque than shirk but still according to Islam shirk is the worst crime in the eyes of Allah. Why it is that so? Let us consider a hypothetical scenario, there is a person who believes in an anthropomorphic deity but at the same time he is a great philanthropist. Now there is another person whose concept of tawheed is immaculately aligned with the teachings of tashayyu but at the same time he is a murderer. Now , according to Islamic principles it is the former person who is the worst criminal in the court of Allah not the latter one. I am unable to decipher the wisdom behind this scenario. I will appreciate inputs from members. Thanking you in advance. I hope I will receive the best answer from this forum as it has never disappointed me ever. Jazak Allah.

First let us understand that shirk is not just the belief in more than one god. In reality, all sins are rooted in some form of shirk. When Iblees refused to bow to Adam, his envy was rooted in a sense of entitlement. Even though he was worshiping Allah for thousands of years, he was worshiping Allah for his own sake -- to be God's beloved chosen one. Iblees not only disobeyed Allah, but disagreed with His choice and debated Him. Iblees therefore preferred himself over God, out of arrogance, and this is a form of shirk. Shirk is not just having an incorrect conception of God. It is obeying something besides God. I may obey my appetites, my desires, my ruler, my family, my tribe, my culture, my priest/rabbi/shaykh all at the expense of obeying God. The object of Islam is to give Allah a monopoly on authority and submit to Him. As soon as we associate partners with Him, then we miss the most fundamental truth of our existence, and we create disorder and chaos in ourselves and around us.

Imam al-Jawad [a] said, "Whomever pays heed to a speaker has worshiped him. So if the speaker speaks on behalf of Allah, then he has worshiped Allah, and if the speaker speaks on behalf of Satan, then he has worshiped Satan." (الحسين بن محمد، عن معلى بن محمد، عن أحمد بن محمد بن إبراهيم الارمني، عن الحسن بن علي بن يقطين، عن أبي جعفر عليه السلام قال: من أصغى إلى ناطق فقد عبده فإن كان الناطق يؤدي عن الله عزوجل فقد عبد الله وإن كان الناطق يؤدي عن الشيطان فقد عبد الشيطان.)

As for the philanthropist anthropomorphist, we don't know why or how he came to the conclusions that he came to about God. If he never encountered the higher truth about God (that He is not anthropomorphic), then Allah will test him differently on the Day of Judgment. Or perhaps his philanthropy is being done for bad intentions. Allah is the Judge and He knows what is in the hearts.

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On 12/30/2018 at 12:03 AM, Goswami said:

Salam to all honorable members. I have asked this question on sundry forums but I have never received any satisfactory response or you can say an eloquent response. The question is , what is the wisdom or philosophy behind shirk being the worst crime imaginable? I mean there are several other heinous crimes which appear far more grotesque than shirk but still according to Islam shirk is the worst crime in the eyes of Allah. Why it is that so? Let us consider a hypothetical scenario, there is a person who believes in an anthropomorphic deity but at the same time he is a great philanthropist. Now there is another person whose concept of tawheed is immaculately aligned with the teachings of tashayyu but at the same time he is a murderer. Now , according to Islamic principles it is the former person who is the worst criminal in the court of Allah not the latter one. I am unable to decipher the wisdom behind this scenario. I will appreciate inputs from members. Thanking you in advance. I hope I will receive the best answer from this forum as it has never disappointed me ever. Jazak Allah.


@Qa'im @Intellectual Resistance @SoRoUsH

Quran is a book which tells us about the purpose of our creation and it sets 
a goal to achieve. It also tells us how to achieve that goal.


We                     rooh/spirit
Body                  highly sophisticated creature made by Allah, it has            
                           intelligence, six senses, can act and reproduce. No emotions, No desire.
 Nafs                 In it reside Desire,emotions.

We can classify Nafs into necessity and fitrat.

Necessity is breathing, eating, drinking etc.

Fitrah is divided into two parts
Good and Bad

We (rooh) are connected to Nafs through body.

Rooh is having some flaw (sense of "I" or shirk) because of this Rooh considers himself separate from the Absolute reality.
This flaw (shirk) created Ego in the spirit.
Ego of the spirit comes into contact with Nafs through body.
Because of this Ego in spirit, good and bad fitrah of nafs got triggered (comes to life)

Basic purpose of life for the rooh is to remove its (shirk) flaw and get back to it's original state : annihilate in to Absolute reality.
(Shirk) Flaw can be removed if rooh is able to kill its ego and ego can be killed by killing the nafs (both good and bad).
Rooh got a task by the mercy of Allah that by the means of body kill the Nafs and get cured.

So the purpose of rooh is to realize that nothing exist except Allah or 
La ilaha illallaah (tawheed).
Only purpose of this life given to rooh, is to remove sense of "I" (shirk).
Quran shows the way how to do it.
That is sirat-e-mustaqim.

If we are not able to attain this before death than we get another chance, another cycle of death and life.
That is the meaning of Shirk is unforgivable.
 

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13 hours ago, Qa'im said:

First let us understand that shirk is not just the belief in more than one god. In reality, all sins are rooted in some form of shirk. When Iblees refused to bow to Adam, his envy was rooted in a sense of entitlement. Even though he was worshiping Allah for thousands of years, he was worshiping Allah for his own sake -- to be God's beloved chosen one. Iblees not only disobeyed Allah, but disagreed with His choice and debated Him. Iblees therefore preferred himself over God, out of arrogance, and this is a form of shirk. Shirk is not just having an incorrect conception of God. It is obeying something besides God. I may obey my appetites, my desires, my ruler, my family, my tribe, my culture, my priest/rabbi/shaykh all at the expense of obeying God. The object of Islam is to give Allah a monopoly on authority and submit to Him. As soon as we associate partners with Him, then we miss the most fundamental truth of our existence, and we create disorder and chaos in ourselves and around us.

Imam al-Jawad [a] said, "Whomever pays heed to a speaker has worshiped him. So if the speaker speaks on behalf of Allah, then he has worshiped Allah, and if the speaker speaks on behalf of Satan, then he has worshiped Satan." (الحسين بن محمد، عن معلى بن محمد، عن أحمد بن محمد بن إبراهيم الارمني، عن الحسن بن علي بن يقطين، عن أبي جعفر عليه السلام قال: من أصغى إلى ناطق فقد عبده فإن كان الناطق يؤدي عن الله عزوجل فقد عبد الله وإن كان الناطق يؤدي عن الشيطان فقد عبد الشيطان.)

As for the philanthropist anthropomorphist, we don't know why or how he came to the conclusions that he came to about God. If he never encountered the higher truth about God (that He is not anthropomorphic), then Allah will test him differently on the Day of Judgment. Or perhaps his philanthropy is being done for bad intentions. Allah is the Judge and He knows what is in the hearts.

Salam bro just one question from me. What do you mean by test him differently, so if he is doing shirk unintentionally will the punishment be different/ will there be one? I was under the impression that shirk is shirk.. Could you please clarify this for me

JazakAllah Khayr Akhi

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3 hours ago, Ejaz said:

Salam bro just one question from me. What do you mean by test him differently, so if he is doing shirk unintentionally will the punishment be different/ will there be one? I was under the impression that shirk is shirk.. Could you please clarify this for me

Wa alaykum assalam sir. Allah does not punish one until a proof is presented to them. If a mushrik is geographically or intellectually isolated from a valid representation of Islam, he will not be judged in the same way as a mushrik in a different circumstance.

A companion asked the Messenger of Allah (s), "Inform me, will Allah punish a person without a proof?"

The Messenger replied, "God forbid."

The companion asked, "So are the children of the polytheists in Paradise or in the Fire?"

The Messenger said, "Allah has more of a right over them.

When Allah gathers the creatures on the Day of Resurrection to cast judgment, He will begin with the children of the polytheists.

He will say to them, 'My male and female servants, who is your Lord, what is your religion, and what are your deeds?'

So they will say, 'O Allah, You are our Lord, You created us, and we created nothing. You caused us to die, and we caused nothing to die. You did not give us a speaking tongue, nor a discerning ear, nor a book that we could read, nor a messenger that we could follow. We do not have knowledge, for You have not taught us.'

So He will say to them, 'My male and female servants, if I were to command you to do something, would you do it?'

So they will say, 'We hear and obey You, O our Lord.'

So Allah will bring a fire called al-Falaq, which is the most severe punishment in Hell, and burns dark black with chains and shackles. Then Allah will order it to blow into the faces of the creatures. The severity of its blow will sever the heavens, obliterate the stars, freeze the seas, shake the mountains, grieve the sight [of the creation], cause the pregnant to miscarry, and cause the children to grey due to its horror on the Day of Resurrection.

Then, Allah will order the children of the polytheists to throw themselves into that Fire. So those whom Allah knows would be good will throw themselves into it, and it will be cool and peaceful for them, just as it was for Abraham [a]. And those whom Allah knows would be wretched will not throw themselves into the fire, so Allah will order the fire to overtake them for abandoning His order, and they will follow their forefathers into Hell."

في كتاب التوحيد باسناده إلى عبد الله بن سلام مولى رسول الله صلى عليه وآله قال: سألت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله فقلت: اخبرني أيعذب الله عز وجل خلقا بلا حجة؟فقال: معاذ الله، قلت: فأولاد المشركين في الجنة أم في النار؟فقال: الله تبارك و تعالى أولى بهم، انه إذا كان يوم القيامة وجمع الله عز وجل الخلائق لفصل القضاء يأتي بأولاد المشركين فيقول لهم عبيدي وإمائي من ربكم وما دينكم وما أعمالكم؟قال: فيقولون: اللهم ربنا أنت خلقتنا ولم نخلق شيئا، وأنت أمتنا ولم نمت شيئا، ولم تجعل لنا ألسنة ننطق بها ولا اسماعا نسمع ولا كتابا نقرؤه ولا رسولا فنتبعه، و لا علم لنا الا ما علمتنا، قال: فيقول لهم عز وجل: عبيدي وإمائي ان أمرتكم بأمر أتفعلونه؟فيقولون: السمع والطاعة لك يا ربنا، قال: فيأمر الله عز وجل نارا يقال لها الفلق أشد شئ في جهنم عذابا فتخرج من مكانها سوداء مظلمة بالسلاسل والأغلال، فيأمرها الله عز وجل ان تنفخ في وجوه الخلائق نفخة فتنفخ، فمن شدة نفختها تنقطع السماء وتنطمس النجوم وتجمد البحار وتزول الجبال وتظلم الابصار وتضع الحوامل حملها، وتشيب الولدان من هولها يوم القيامة ثم يأمر الله تبارك وتعالى أطفال المشركين أن يلقوا أنفسهم في تلك النار، فمن سبق له في علم الله عزوجل أن يكون سعيدا ألقى نفسه فيها فكانت عليه بردا وسلاما كما كانت على إبراهيم عليه السلام، ومن سبق له في علم الله عزوجل أن يكون شقيا امتنع فلم يلق نفسه في النار، فيأمر الله تبارك و تعالى النار فتلقطه لتركه أمر الله وامتناعه من الدخول فيها فيكون تبعا لآبائه في جهنم

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