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1 hour ago, Ejaz said:

:salam:

Thanks for your input bro & welcome to shiachat, just wanna say no need to say you are Sunni before your answer because Ayatollah Sistani (shiite Grand Marja) says do not say Sunnis are our brothers, rather they are our nafs (ourselves).

Allah SWT said that when we do something, we should say "Indeed I am of the Muslims", and it reflects upon our community, so in like I stated I am Sunni so it reflects better upon my community within Islam InshaAllah

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1 hour ago, Goswami said:

Why doesn't He forgive shirk?

Key part of forgiveness is repentance. Key part of repentance is not to repeat the sin. So Allah definitely forgives the person who stops committing shirk and is repentant for having committed shirk.

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5 hours ago, Ar.alhindi said:

The answer is incorrect - to say major sins make you a Kafir (which that quote effectively says in the last paragraph) is a Khariji belief, not an orthodox one. 

I agree that that answer doesn't seem to be correct...

Quote

 

God forbids evil and permits Good things hence all forbidden acts are evil and since there is a direct relation between committing evil and shirk then this means God has installed a system that prevents all evil.

 

Quote

 

When a criminal commits a big crime for sure he is a mushrik regardless of what he claims because he gave precedence to his own desire over Gods law,

 

The quote seems to assert every sin is ultimately associated with shirk. If that is the case, there really is no reason to emphasize that shirk is the greatest sin in Islam if all sins are associated with it.

It's strange because I do recall that if a person refrains from major sins throughout his life, all his minor sins will be forgiven automatically. 

It's also funny that in the above two quotes, first the person said all forbidden acts are evil, and evil has a direct relation with shirk (making all evil shirk), but then he goes on to say only "big" crimes make a person mushrik... So do minor sins make a person mushrik or not?

Anyway, I can agree (as I have alluded to in my first post), that if a person repeatedly commits major crimes without remorse despite claiming a monotheistic belief, he is being dishonest about his belief intentionally or unintentionally. But the stretch that that paragraph has made on top of this conclusion is too much, there needs to be a balance.

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15 hours ago, Goswami said:

Every vile deed is a crime against your soul. Just like a physical action has its reward in naturalistic realm likewise an action has its reward in metaphysical realm. Every vile deed earns us a Divine Wrath upon our souls , concomitantly our souls are polluted. So, shirk is no exception. Hence , this argument is also invalid. 

I do not know what you’re trying to say? What is invalidating what?

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On 12/29/2018 at 1:33 PM, Goswami said:

Salam to all honorable members. I have asked this question on sundry forums but I have never received any satisfactory response or you can say an eloquent response. The question is , what is the wisdom or philosophy behind shirk being the worst crime imaginable? I mean there are several other heinous crimes which appear far more grotesque than shirk but still according to Islam shirk is the worst crime in the eyes of Allah. Why it is that so? Let us consider a hypothetical scenario, there is a person who believes in an anthropomorphic deity but at the same time he is a great philanthropist. Now there is another person whose concept of tawheed is immaculately aligned with the teachings of tashayyu but at the same time he is a murderer. Now , according to Islamic principles it is the former person who is the worst criminal in the court of Allah not the latter one. I am unable to decipher the wisdom behind this scenario. I will appreciate inputs from members. Thanking you in advance. I hope I will receive the best answer from this forum as it has never disappointed me ever. Jazak Allah.

First let us understand that shirk is not just the belief in more than one god. In reality, all sins are rooted in some form of shirk. When Iblees refused to bow to Adam, his envy was rooted in a sense of entitlement. Even though he was worshiping Allah for thousands of years, he was worshiping Allah for his own sake -- to be God's beloved chosen one. Iblees not only disobeyed Allah, but disagreed with His choice and debated Him. Iblees therefore preferred himself over God, out of arrogance, and this is a form of shirk. Shirk is not just having an incorrect conception of God. It is obeying something besides God. I may obey my appetites, my desires, my ruler, my family, my tribe, my culture, my priest/rabbi/shaykh all at the expense of obeying God. The object of Islam is to give Allah a monopoly on authority and submit to Him. As soon as we associate partners with Him, then we miss the most fundamental truth of our existence, and we create disorder and chaos in ourselves and around us.

Imam al-Jawad [a] said, "Whomever pays heed to a speaker has worshiped him. So if the speaker speaks on behalf of Allah, then he has worshiped Allah, and if the speaker speaks on behalf of Satan, then he has worshiped Satan." (الحسين بن محمد، عن معلى بن محمد، عن أحمد بن محمد بن إبراهيم الارمني، عن الحسن بن علي بن يقطين، عن أبي جعفر عليه السلام قال: من أصغى إلى ناطق فقد عبده فإن كان الناطق يؤدي عن الله عزوجل فقد عبد الله وإن كان الناطق يؤدي عن الشيطان فقد عبد الشيطان.)

As for the philanthropist anthropomorphist, we don't know why or how he came to the conclusions that he came to about God. If he never encountered the higher truth about God (that He is not anthropomorphic), then Allah will test him differently on the Day of Judgment. Or perhaps his philanthropy is being done for bad intentions. Allah is the Judge and He knows what is in the hearts.

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On 12/30/2018 at 12:03 AM, Goswami said:

Salam to all honorable members. I have asked this question on sundry forums but I have never received any satisfactory response or you can say an eloquent response. The question is , what is the wisdom or philosophy behind shirk being the worst crime imaginable? I mean there are several other heinous crimes which appear far more grotesque than shirk but still according to Islam shirk is the worst crime in the eyes of Allah. Why it is that so? Let us consider a hypothetical scenario, there is a person who believes in an anthropomorphic deity but at the same time he is a great philanthropist. Now there is another person whose concept of tawheed is immaculately aligned with the teachings of tashayyu but at the same time he is a murderer. Now , according to Islamic principles it is the former person who is the worst criminal in the court of Allah not the latter one. I am unable to decipher the wisdom behind this scenario. I will appreciate inputs from members. Thanking you in advance. I hope I will receive the best answer from this forum as it has never disappointed me ever. Jazak Allah.


@Qa'im @Intellectual Resistance @SoRoUsH

Quran is a book which tells us about the purpose of our creation and it sets 
a goal to achieve. It also tells us how to achieve that goal.


We                     rooh/spirit
Body                  highly sophisticated creature made by Allah, it has            
                           intelligence, six senses, can act and reproduce. No emotions, No desire.
 Nafs                 In it reside Desire,emotions.

We can classify Nafs into necessity and fitrat.

Necessity is breathing, eating, drinking etc.

Fitrah is divided into two parts
Good and Bad

We (rooh) are connected to Nafs through body.

Rooh is having some flaw (sense of "I" or shirk) because of this Rooh considers himself separate from the Absolute reality.
This flaw (shirk) created Ego in the spirit.
Ego of the spirit comes into contact with Nafs through body.
Because of this Ego in spirit, good and bad fitrah of nafs got triggered (comes to life)

Basic purpose of life for the rooh is to remove its (shirk) flaw and get back to it's original state : annihilate in to Absolute reality.
(Shirk) Flaw can be removed if rooh is able to kill its ego and ego can be killed by killing the nafs (both good and bad).
Rooh got a task by the mercy of Allah that by the means of body kill the Nafs and get cured.

So the purpose of rooh is to realize that nothing exist except Allah or 
La ilaha illallaah (tawheed).
Only purpose of this life given to rooh, is to remove sense of "I" (shirk).
Quran shows the way how to do it.
That is sirat-e-mustaqim.

If we are not able to attain this before death than we get another chance, another cycle of death and life.
That is the meaning of Shirk is unforgivable.
 

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13 hours ago, Qa'im said:

First let us understand that shirk is not just the belief in more than one god. In reality, all sins are rooted in some form of shirk. When Iblees refused to bow to Adam, his envy was rooted in a sense of entitlement. Even though he was worshiping Allah for thousands of years, he was worshiping Allah for his own sake -- to be God's beloved chosen one. Iblees not only disobeyed Allah, but disagreed with His choice and debated Him. Iblees therefore preferred himself over God, out of arrogance, and this is a form of shirk. Shirk is not just having an incorrect conception of God. It is obeying something besides God. I may obey my appetites, my desires, my ruler, my family, my tribe, my culture, my priest/rabbi/shaykh all at the expense of obeying God. The object of Islam is to give Allah a monopoly on authority and submit to Him. As soon as we associate partners with Him, then we miss the most fundamental truth of our existence, and we create disorder and chaos in ourselves and around us.

Imam al-Jawad [a] said, "Whomever pays heed to a speaker has worshiped him. So if the speaker speaks on behalf of Allah, then he has worshiped Allah, and if the speaker speaks on behalf of Satan, then he has worshiped Satan." (الحسين بن محمد، عن معلى بن محمد، عن أحمد بن محمد بن إبراهيم الارمني، عن الحسن بن علي بن يقطين، عن أبي جعفر عليه السلام قال: من أصغى إلى ناطق فقد عبده فإن كان الناطق يؤدي عن الله عزوجل فقد عبد الله وإن كان الناطق يؤدي عن الشيطان فقد عبد الشيطان.)

As for the philanthropist anthropomorphist, we don't know why or how he came to the conclusions that he came to about God. If he never encountered the higher truth about God (that He is not anthropomorphic), then Allah will test him differently on the Day of Judgment. Or perhaps his philanthropy is being done for bad intentions. Allah is the Judge and He knows what is in the hearts.

Salam bro just one question from me. What do you mean by test him differently, so if he is doing shirk unintentionally will the punishment be different/ will there be one? I was under the impression that shirk is shirk.. Could you please clarify this for me

JazakAllah Khayr Akhi

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Not sure if it's a serious question or sarcasm.

Of course shirk is the biggest sin. If you are doing shirk than you are basically not a muslim and if you are a muslim than shirk is the biggest sin. it throws you out of the boundaries of islam.

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3 hours ago, Ejaz said:

Salam bro just one question from me. What do you mean by test him differently, so if he is doing shirk unintentionally will the punishment be different/ will there be one? I was under the impression that shirk is shirk.. Could you please clarify this for me

Wa alaykum assalam sir. Allah does not punish one until a proof is presented to them. If a mushrik is geographically or intellectually isolated from a valid representation of Islam, he will not be judged in the same way as a mushrik in a different circumstance.

A companion asked the Messenger of Allah (s), "Inform me, will Allah punish a person without a proof?"

The Messenger replied, "God forbid."

The companion asked, "So are the children of the polytheists in Paradise or in the Fire?"

The Messenger said, "Allah has more of a right over them.

When Allah gathers the creatures on the Day of Resurrection to cast judgment, He will begin with the children of the polytheists.

He will say to them, 'My male and female servants, who is your Lord, what is your religion, and what are your deeds?'

So they will say, 'O Allah, You are our Lord, You created us, and we created nothing. You caused us to die, and we caused nothing to die. You did not give us a speaking tongue, nor a discerning ear, nor a book that we could read, nor a messenger that we could follow. We do not have knowledge, for You have not taught us.'

So He will say to them, 'My male and female servants, if I were to command you to do something, would you do it?'

So they will say, 'We hear and obey You, O our Lord.'

So Allah will bring a fire called al-Falaq, which is the most severe punishment in Hell, and burns dark black with chains and shackles. Then Allah will order it to blow into the faces of the creatures. The severity of its blow will sever the heavens, obliterate the stars, freeze the seas, shake the mountains, grieve the sight [of the creation], cause the pregnant to miscarry, and cause the children to grey due to its horror on the Day of Resurrection.

Then, Allah will order the children of the polytheists to throw themselves into that Fire. So those whom Allah knows would be good will throw themselves into it, and it will be cool and peaceful for them, just as it was for Abraham [a]. And those whom Allah knows would be wretched will not throw themselves into the fire, so Allah will order the fire to overtake them for abandoning His order, and they will follow their forefathers into Hell."

في كتاب التوحيد باسناده إلى عبد الله بن سلام مولى رسول الله صلى عليه وآله قال: سألت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله فقلت: اخبرني أيعذب الله عز وجل خلقا بلا حجة؟فقال: معاذ الله، قلت: فأولاد المشركين في الجنة أم في النار؟فقال: الله تبارك و تعالى أولى بهم، انه إذا كان يوم القيامة وجمع الله عز وجل الخلائق لفصل القضاء يأتي بأولاد المشركين فيقول لهم عبيدي وإمائي من ربكم وما دينكم وما أعمالكم؟قال: فيقولون: اللهم ربنا أنت خلقتنا ولم نخلق شيئا، وأنت أمتنا ولم نمت شيئا، ولم تجعل لنا ألسنة ننطق بها ولا اسماعا نسمع ولا كتابا نقرؤه ولا رسولا فنتبعه، و لا علم لنا الا ما علمتنا، قال: فيقول لهم عز وجل: عبيدي وإمائي ان أمرتكم بأمر أتفعلونه؟فيقولون: السمع والطاعة لك يا ربنا، قال: فيأمر الله عز وجل نارا يقال لها الفلق أشد شئ في جهنم عذابا فتخرج من مكانها سوداء مظلمة بالسلاسل والأغلال، فيأمرها الله عز وجل ان تنفخ في وجوه الخلائق نفخة فتنفخ، فمن شدة نفختها تنقطع السماء وتنطمس النجوم وتجمد البحار وتزول الجبال وتظلم الابصار وتضع الحوامل حملها، وتشيب الولدان من هولها يوم القيامة ثم يأمر الله تبارك وتعالى أطفال المشركين أن يلقوا أنفسهم في تلك النار، فمن سبق له في علم الله عزوجل أن يكون سعيدا ألقى نفسه فيها فكانت عليه بردا وسلاما كما كانت على إبراهيم عليه السلام، ومن سبق له في علم الله عزوجل أن يكون شقيا امتنع فلم يلق نفسه في النار، فيأمر الله تبارك و تعالى النار فتلقطه لتركه أمر الله وامتناعه من الدخول فيها فيكون تبعا لآبائه في جهنم

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On 12/29/2018 at 2:33 PM, Goswami said:

Salam to all honorable members. I have asked this question on sundry forums but I have never received any satisfactory response or you can say an eloquent response. The question is , what is the wisdom or philosophy behind shirk being the worst crime imaginable? I mean there are several other heinous crimes which appear far more grotesque than shirk but still according to Islam shirk is the worst crime in the eyes of Allah. Why it is that so? Let us consider a hypothetical scenario, there is a person who believes in an anthropomorphic deity but at the same time he is a great philanthropist. Now there is another person whose concept of tawheed is immaculately aligned with the teachings of tashayyu but at the same time he is a murderer. Now , according to Islamic principles it is the former person who is the worst criminal in the court of Allah not the latter one. I am unable to decipher the wisdom behind this scenario. I will appreciate inputs from members. Thanking you in advance. I hope I will receive the best answer from this forum as it has never disappointed me ever. Jazak Allah.


@Qa'im @Intellectual Resistance @SoRoUsH

سلام، 

Shirk is dangerous because it shifts the framework within which one operates, every day, every hour, every minute. 

Allah is الحق، The Truth. Tawheed is the framework that is founded upon this truth. 

Shirk, on the other hand, is founded upon the notion of the multiplicity of truths. In this framework there not one الحق، there are two, few, or many. 

Consequently, any action within the framework of shirk is fueled and imbued with the wrong intention and for the sake of other than الحق. And since each action is evaluated based on the intention behind it, every action outside of the framework of Tawheed is unacceptable by Allah, since it's done for other than Allah, or for not Allah alone.

If an action is not done for the sake of Allah alone, then it's not accepted by Allah. A philanthropist in the framework of shirk is building a house of dirt on a rock that can easily be blown away by wind. 

On the other hand, a murderer, who acknowledges the oneness of God, following repentance and atonement, either in this world or the next, can be forgiven. 

This is how I understand it.

Edited by SoRoUsH

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9 hours ago, Qa'im said:

Wa alaykum assalam sir. Allah does not punish one until a proof is presented to them. If a mushrik is geographically or intellectually isolated from a valid representation of Islam, he will not be judged in the same way as a mushrik in a different circumstance.

A companion asked the Messenger of Allah (s), "Inform me, will Allah punish a person without a proof?"

The Messenger replied, "God forbid."

 The companion asked, "So are the children of the polytheists in Paradise or in the Fire?"

The Messenger said, "Allah has more of a right over them.

When Allah gathers the creatures on the Day of Resurrection to cast judgment, He will begin with the children of the polytheists.

He will say to them, 'My male and female servants, who is your Lord, what is your religion, and what are your deeds?'

So they will say, 'O Allah, You are our Lord, You created us, and we created nothing. You caused us to die, and we caused nothing to die. You did not give us a speaking tongue, nor a discerning ear, nor a book that we could read, nor a messenger that we could follow. We do not have knowledge, for You have not taught us.'

So He will say to them, 'My male and female servants, if I were to command you to do something, would you do it?'

So they will say, 'We hear and obey You, O our Lord.'

So Allah will bring a fire called al-Falaq, which is the most severe punishment in Hell, and burns dark black with chains and shackles. Then Allah will order it to blow into the faces of the creatures. The severity of its blow will sever the heavens, obliterate the stars, freeze the seas, shake the mountains, grieve the sight [of the creation], cause the pregnant to miscarry, and cause the children to grey due to its horror on the Day of Resurrection.

Then, Allah will order the children of the polytheists to throw themselves into that Fire. So those whom Allah knows would be good will throw themselves into it, and it will be cool and peaceful for them, just as it was for Abraham [a]. And those whom Allah knows would be wretched will not throw themselves into the fire, so Allah will order the fire to overtake them for abandoning His order, and they will follow their forefathers into Hell."

في كتاب التوحيد باسناده إلى عبد الله بن سلام مولى رسول الله صلى عليه وآله قال: سألت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله فقلت: اخبرني أيعذب الله عز وجل خلقا بلا حجة؟فقال: معاذ الله، قلت: فأولاد المشركين في الجنة أم في النار؟فقال: الله تبارك و تعالى أولى بهم، انه إذا كان يوم القيامة وجمع الله عز وجل الخلائق لفصل القضاء يأتي بأولاد المشركين فيقول لهم عبيدي وإمائي من ربكم وما دينكم وما أعمالكم؟قال: فيقولون: اللهم ربنا أنت خلقتنا ولم نخلق شيئا، وأنت أمتنا ولم نمت شيئا، ولم تجعل لنا ألسنة ننطق بها ولا اسماعا نسمع ولا كتابا نقرؤه ولا رسولا فنتبعه، و لا علم لنا الا ما علمتنا، قال: فيقول لهم عز وجل: عبيدي وإمائي ان أمرتكم بأمر أتفعلونه؟فيقولون: السمع والطاعة لك يا ربنا، قال: فيأمر الله عز وجل نارا يقال لها الفلق أشد شئ في جهنم عذابا فتخرج من مكانها سوداء مظلمة بالسلاسل والأغلال، فيأمرها الله عز وجل ان تنفخ في وجوه الخلائق نفخة فتنفخ، فمن شدة نفختها تنقطع السماء وتنطمس النجوم وتجمد البحار وتزول الجبال وتظلم الابصار وتضع الحوامل حملها، وتشيب الولدان من هولها يوم القيامة ثم يأمر الله تبارك وتعالى أطفال المشركين أن يلقوا أنفسهم في تلك النار، فمن سبق له في علم الله عزوجل أن يكون سعيدا ألقى نفسه فيها فكانت عليه بردا وسلاما كما كانت على إبراهيم عليه السلام، ومن سبق له في علم الله عزوجل أن يكون شقيا امتنع فلم يلق نفسه في النار، فيأمر الله تبارك و تعالى النار فتلقطه لتركه أمر الله وامتناعه من الدخول فيها فيكون تبعا لآبائه في جهنم

Thanks bro mashallah this is what I was looking for, I thought it only applied to non-polytheists

Wsalam

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