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I absolutely believe Allah exists, I don't have any doubt about it. I do, however, feel that he is unjust.

Is it a problem I feel today's judicial punishments are better than Allah's? More precisely, I mean more humane.

I feel disgusted by the punishment of flogging and stoning.

And the agony that awaits us all in the grave and the afterlife.

What adds more salt to the would is something that had happened with a prophet, I don't remember exactly which. But the story goes like this.

This prophet was praying, his wife talked to him while he was praying because his son had fallen in a well. He then swore  to her that she'll receive 100 lashes (not sure if it was exactly 100). Then he tied 100 bamboos to each other and gave her 1 lash, apparently its valid.

Now I have 2 complaints about this.

1- why is it 100 lashes for only that in the first place, how is that just? Maybe it is, but my human mind is not willing to accept that it is.

2- How was tying all bamboos to each other logical? Does she get some kind of privilege because she's a prophet's wife? While others will suffer from tens of lashes under the sharia law? (I thought that maybe he could do that because he only swore to do that, and that it wasn't the sharia law than gave her that punishment)

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1 hour ago, What should I type here? said:

I absolutely believe Allah exists, I don't have any doubt about it. I do, however, feel that he is unjust.

Are you sure that the sources that you are reading are accurate? What texts are you reading from that have led to you forming this opinion?

1 hour ago, What should I type here? said:

Is it a problem I feel today's judicial punishments are better than Allah's? More precisely, I mean more humane.

Again, this ties back to your research on the topic. Sources? In order to arrive at the correct conclusion you have to determine the validity of your sources. 

What specific judicial punishments are you speaking of ? What is the crime that they have been convicted of which led to them being given this punishment? 

1 hour ago, What should I type here? said:

I feel disgusted by the punishment of flogging and stoning.

What are the crimes which have such a punishment attached to them ? Also, what is the process of determining guilty and trial regarding that particular crime?

1 hour ago, What should I type here? said:

And the agony that awaits us all in the grave and the afterlife.

Is the agony that awaits us a punishment or a purification? What happens after the punishment is completed?

1 hour ago, What should I type here? said:

What adds more salt to the would is something that had happened with a prophet, I don't remember exactly which. But the story goes like this.

This prophet was praying, his wife talked to him while he was praying because his son had fallen in a well. He then swore  to her that she'll receive 100 lashes (not sure if it was exactly 100). Then he tied 100 bamboos to each other and gave her 1 lash, apparently its valid.

Need more info on this. Who was the Prophet? What is the source? Is this a story in the Quran? Is it from a hadith collection, and if so what is the grading on it ? Again, this all ties back to what sources you are using to get this information.

1 hour ago, What should I type here? said:

Now I have 2 complaints about this.

1- why is it 100 lashes for only that in the first place, how is that just? Maybe it is, but my human mind is not willing to accept that it is.

2- How was tying all bamboos to each other logical? Does she get some kind of privilege because she's a prophet's wife? While others will suffer from tens of lashes under the sharia law? (I thought that maybe he could do that because he only swore to do that, and that it wasn't the sharia law than gave her that punishment)

See above to determine the source of this information. Once that has been determined then it is a matter of deriving the validity of the punishment based on the laws of the Quran and moving into jurisprudence. 

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2 hours ago, What should I type here? said:

Is it a problem I feel today's judicial punishments are better than Allah's? More precisely, I mean more humane.

You are saying, that the mind of the Collective Created beings, managed to come up with a  better system( more Humane)  compared to their Creator? 

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19 hours ago, IbnSina said:

Hmm, so let me get this straight:

You are having doubts about Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى based on a story of a Prophet you cannot name nor give sources to?

I think she's talking about prophet ayyoub (as), 

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19 hours ago, IbnSina said:

Hmm, so let me get this straight:

You are having doubts about Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى based on a story of a Prophet you cannot name nor give sources to?

What I understand is that the OP is having doubts not about the existence of Allah but the organised religion with all its rules and regulations that often seem to modern mind as harsh and extreme and the concept of eternal life that to some people feels a crude and fantastical idea.

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On 12/27/2018 at 10:07 AM, What should I type here? said:

I absolutely believe Allah exists, I don't have any doubt about it. I do, however, feel that he is unjust.

Is it a problem I feel today's judicial punishments are better than Allah's? More precisely, I mean more humane.

I feel disgusted by the punishment of flogging and stoning.

And the agony that awaits us all in the grave and the afterlife.

What adds more salt to the would is something that had happened with a prophet, I don't remember exactly which. But the story goes like this.

This prophet was praying, his wife talked to him while he was praying because his son had fallen in a well. He then swore  to her that she'll receive 100 lashes (not sure if it was exactly 100). Then he tied 100 bamboos to each other and gave her 1 lash, apparently its valid.

Now I have 2 complaints about this.

1- why is it 100 lashes for only that in the first place, how is that just? Maybe it is, but my human mind is not willing to accept that it is.

2- How was tying all bamboos to each other logical? Does she get some kind of privilege because she's a prophet's wife? While others will suffer from tens of lashes under the sharia law? (I thought that maybe he could do that because he only swore to do that, and that it wasn't the sharia law than gave her that punishment)

This is about prophet ayyoub (as), however some narrate that he beat her up with a bundle of soft grass

i think you got the whole story wrong

Prophet ayyoub(as) and his wife were both very patient believers, so Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى tested them by inflicting the prophet with a severe illness. The shaytan whispered to them a few times and then when the shaytan reminded the wife of their past life where things were better and easier, she burst into tears and asked ayyoub to ask Allah to remove this hardship, and when he heard this he rebuked her without thinking and swore an oath to beat her. However, after Allah swt removed the sickness, she praised Allah but also worried about ayyoub's oath, 

prophet ayyoub (as) was grieved by the oath he made, so Allah sent a revelation which told him to not beat his wife but hit her gently with a bundle of soft grass.

well sister a bundle of grass is much more just than hitting with a lash, since he regretted his oath, it was his only choice because he had to fulfill his oath by not harming her.

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:salam:

Excerpt from
Then I was Guided
Muhammad al-Tijani al-Samawi:

“Four men, who were probably Iraqis, judging by their accents, came to see al-Sayyid Muhammad Baqir al-Sadr. One of them had inherited a house from his grandfather, who had died a few years ago, and had sold that house to a second person (he was present then). One year after the completion of the sale, two brothers came and proved that they were also legal inheritors of the dead man (i.e. the father).

“The four of them sat before al-Sayyid and each one of them produced a number of papers and deeds, which al-Sayyid read, and after he spoke for a few minutes with the men, he passed a fair judgment. He gave the purchaser the full right to his house, and asked the seller to pay to his two brothers their shares from the selling price, and after that they stood up and kissed al-Sayyid's hand and embraced each other. I was astonished about what had happened and asked Abu Shubbar, "Has the case ended?"

“He said, "Yes, everyone received his right. Praise be to Allah!" In such case, and in such a short time, only a few minutes, the problem was solved. A similar case in our country would have taken at least ten years to resolve...

“Abu Shubbar commented, “we have the same thing if not worse." I asked, "How?" He said, if people take their cases to the state courts, then they would go through the same troubles which you have just mentioned, but if they follow the Religious Authority and commit themselves to the Islamic Laws, then they would take their cases to him and the problem would be solved in a few minutes, as you saw. And what is better than the Law of Allah for people who could comprehend? Al-Sayyid al-Sadr did not charge them one Fils, but if they went to the state courts, then they would have paid a high price. [...]

“... And whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers.” (Holy Qur'an 5:44)

“... And whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unjust.” (Holy Qur'an 5:45)

“... And whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors.” (Holy Qur'an 5:47)

That incident aroused in me feelings of anger and resentment about those who change the just rules of Allah with some unjust, man-made rules. They even go further, and with all impudence and sarcasm, they criticize the divine rules and condemn them for being barbaric and inhuman because it draws the limits cuts the hand of the thief, stones the adulterer and kills the killer. So where did all these new theories that are foreign to us and our culture come from? There is no doubt they came from the West and from the enemies of Islam who know that the application of Allah's rules mean their inevitable destruction because they are thieves, traitors, adulterers, criminals and murderers.

Hope this excerpt helps.

In terms of my opinion brother/sister, these punishments are designed to act as deterrents. For instance the punishment for homosexual sexual intercourse requires a) four witnesses b) they have to all see it [....]. So if you look at it this way it is very unlikely to get caught and at the same time due to the severity of the punishment they will refrain from doing this sinful act.

Further, when it comes to these punishment they are not guaranteed to be executed. For example, when it comes to stealing I believe stealing from hunger is an exception. 

Here is a punishment that Imam Ali a.s. had forgave (source is Duas.org):

“It has been  related from Arbaeen Khateeb Baghdadi that a woman was brought to Hazrat Omar (RA). She was found committing adultery on the banks of a certain river of Arbistan. After examining the witnesess Hazrat Omar (RA) awarded her punishment of stoning to death.

“Hearing this Judgment of Hazrat Omar (RA), she uttered the following words, “O God! Thou knoweth that I am not guilty.”

“These words of her enraged Hazrat Omar (RA) further. He said to her, “You committed adultery and still you dare belie the witnesses.” 

“When she was being carried to the place where she was going to be stoned to death, she met Hazrat Ali (A) who was passing by that way.

“Seeing her, he asked the executioners to take her back to Hazrat Omar (RA) for further investigation. When she was taken back to Hazrat Omar (RA), Hazrat Ali (A) asked her to relate her story to him (Hazrat Ali (A)). The woman in question related her story to as follows:

 “My family has some camels. Yesterday, I took them out to the desert for grazing. At about noon I felt thirsty, but I had no water with me to drink, neither there was any water in the vicinity with which I could quench my thirst.”

“A little way off from there,” she continued, there was another man, who had water with him. But when I asked him for a little water to drink, he refused to give a single drop of it to me unless I agreed to commit adultery with him, but I refused.”

“When I felt very thirsty and was about to die of thirst,” further continued the woman, “I agreed, under compulsion though, to allow him to fulfil his carnal desire. 

“Having heard the story of the woman Hazrat Ali (A) exclaimed, “The one who is compelled by circumstances in case he or she is not disobedient and does not exceed the limits of law and go beyond the restrictions put on him or her by Allah they are not responsible for any crime committed under such circumstances.” Hearing this Hazrat Omar (RA) released the woman.”

(Manaqib, vol. 2, p. 190, Biharul Anwar, vol. 9, p. 484, Riaz, vol. 2 p. 259; Zakheeratul Uqba,  p. 81, Turuqi Hikmia by Ibne Qaiyum).

And Allah knows best

Layman (pls correct if I am wrong)

Wsalam

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Few things that were mentioned in this thread. 

This fallacy of Modern Mind/Individual /Thinking ( Neo individualism) - needs to explored. Humans are not modern, they are actually becoming more and more backward. If you consider the cave man era, after that we had village, city, state and country and now a Global Village. Progress if measured in terms of the way, Humanity has grown from an individual (concerned about his life and personal likes/dislikes and his and his immediate cave family needs) to a member of a large Community.

In a community setting, personal likes/dislikes or to put it mildly - neo individualism. Is a backward, meaning going back to the cave man mentality, and negating all progress. 

Religion( way of life) is for a Society/Community. For the collective benefit of a community. 

Organization, is part of successful communities. Even in corporate world- lack of organization means failure. An individual may not like Organized activities, or set of rules which are for the benefit of the Collective. 

Crime and punishment- from a individual personal likes/dislikes have no meaning. An Individual may not be concerned with what happen in a community as long as I am having a good time, and not be bothered with some punishment that I may dislike. But punishment has a dual purpose, one is some sort of justice and other is that it acts as a deterrent. From a collective point of view, something that has a deterrent aspect to it is good for the over all community- it may be disliked by an individual(s). In in today's world - Individual likes and dislikes are not taken into account when a corporation, state or a legislative body makes the rules and defines consequences(for breaking the rules) . Impact of a Crime on the Community is given priority. so punishment to have a deterrent aspect is important

Also, if a belief in god, is a personal thing it does not benefit the society/community. Everyone's personal understanding of god and what this personal god wants them to do - mean 7 plus billion personal gods and 7+ billion Religions ( way of life). 

Disregarding Muhammad al-Mustafa( peace be upon him and him pure progeny) means disregarding God. So, the reason for the absolute obedience of  Muhammad al -Mustafa (peace be upon him and his pure progeny) is essential. Just belief in god is not sufficient. . Set of rules / rituals (activities)= ( Organized way of life). which is called Organized Religion. Irony is that every aspect of what is called modern life - is organized/structured - Actually, a cave man to today's communities/global village- Organization has played a key role and with out this aspect of organization/structure  we would still be living or acting like cavemen - in the Global Village. 

Above is a Layman's perspective. 

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On 12/28/2018 at 6:23 AM, 3wliya_maryam said:

This is about prophet ayyoub (as), however some narrate that he beat her up with a bundle of soft grass

i think you got the whole story wrong

Prophet ayyoub(as) and his wife were both very patient believers, so Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى tested them by inflicting the prophet with a severe illness. The shaytan whispered to them a few times and then when the shaytan reminded the wife of their past life where things were better and easier, she burst into tears and asked ayyoub to ask Allah to remove this hardship, and when he heard this he rebuked her without thinking and swore an oath to beat her. However, after Allah swt removed the sickness, she praised Allah but also worried about ayyoub's oath, 

prophet ayyoub (as) was grieved by the oath he made, so Allah sent a revelation which told him to not beat his wife but hit her gently with a bundle of soft grass.

well sister a bundle of grass is much more just than hitting with a lash, since he regretted his oath, it was his only choice because he had to fulfill his oath by not harming her.

It’s even more beautiful with the **whole** story and it’s really merciful honestly 

judging without context leads to unjustified doubts like these

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14 hours ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

I think she's talking about prophet ayyoub (as), 

That might be the case, but if I heard a story like that  from someone which would worry me to the degree that I would get doubts, then I would for sure study the actual story first myself.

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On 12/28/2018 at 8:28 AM, Ejaz said:

:salam:

Excerpt from
Then I was Guided
Muhammad al-Tijani al-Samawi:

“Four men, who were probably Iraqis, judging by their accents, came to see al-Sayyid Muhammad Baqir al-Sadr. One of them had inherited a house from his grandfather, who had died a few years ago, and had sold that house to a second person (he was present then). One year after the completion of the sale, two brothers came and proved that they were also legal inheritors of the dead man (i.e. the father).

“The four of them sat before al-Sayyid and each one of them produced a number of papers and deeds, which al-Sayyid read, and after he spoke for a few minutes with the men, he passed a fair judgment. He gave the purchaser the full right to his house, and asked the seller to pay to his two brothers their shares from the selling price, and after that they stood up and kissed al-Sayyid's hand and embraced each other. I was astonished about what had happened and asked Abu Shubbar, "Has the case ended?"

“He said, "Yes, everyone received his right. Praise be to Allah!" In such case, and in such a short time, only a few minutes, the problem was solved. A similar case in our country would have taken at least ten years to resolve...

“Abu Shubbar commented, “we have the same thing if not worse." I asked, "How?" He said, if people take their cases to the state courts, then they would go through the same troubles which you have just mentioned, but if they follow the Religious Authority and commit themselves to the Islamic Laws, then they would take their cases to him and the problem would be solved in a few minutes, as you saw. And what is better than the Law of Allah for people who could comprehend? Al-Sayyid al-Sadr did not charge them one Fils, but if they went to the state courts, then they would have paid a high price. [...]

“... And whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers.” (Holy Qur'an 5:44)

“... And whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unjust.” (Holy Qur'an 5:45)

“... And whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors.” (Holy Qur'an 5:47)

That incident aroused in me feelings of anger and resentment about those who change the just rules of Allah with some unjust, man-made rules. They even go further, and with all impudence and sarcasm, they criticize the divine rules and condemn them for being barbaric and inhuman because it draws the limits cuts the hand of the thief, stones the adulterer and kills the killer. So where did all these new theories that are foreign to us and our culture come from? There is no doubt they came from the West and from the enemies of Islam who know that the application of Allah's rules mean their inevitable destruction because they are thieves, traitors, adulterers, criminals and murderers.

Hope this excerpt helps.

In terms of my opinion brother/sister, these punishments are designed to act as deterrents. For instance the punishment for homosexual sexual intercourse requires a) four witnesses b) they have to all see it [....]. So if you look at it this way it is very unlikely to get caught and at the same time due to the severity of the punishment they will refrain from doing this sinful act.

Further, when it comes to these punishment they are not guaranteed to be executed. For example, when it comes to stealing I believe stealing from hunger is an exception. 

Here is a punishment that Imam Ali a.s. had forgave (source is Duas.org):

“It has been  related from Arbaeen Khateeb Baghdadi that a woman was brought to Hazrat Omar (RA). She was found committing adultery on the banks of a certain river of Arbistan. After examining the witnesess Hazrat Omar (RA) awarded her punishment of stoning to death.

“Hearing this Judgment of Hazrat Omar (RA), she uttered the following words, “O God! Thou knoweth that I am not guilty.”

“These words of her enraged Hazrat Omar (RA) further. He said to her, “You committed adultery and still you dare belie the witnesses.” 

“When she was being carried to the place where she was going to be stoned to death, she met Hazrat Ali (A) who was passing by that way.

“Seeing her, he asked the executioners to take her back to Hazrat Omar (RA) for further investigation. When she was taken back to Hazrat Omar (RA), Hazrat Ali (A) asked her to relate her story to him (Hazrat Ali (A)). The woman in question related her story to as follows:

 “My family has some camels. Yesterday, I took them out to the desert for grazing. At about noon I felt thirsty, but I had no water with me to drink, neither there was any water in the vicinity with which I could quench my thirst.”

“A little way off from there,” she continued, there was another man, who had water with him. But when I asked him for a little water to drink, he refused to give a single drop of it to me unless I agreed to commit adultery with him, but I refused.”

“When I felt very thirsty and was about to die of thirst,” further continued the woman, “I agreed, under compulsion though, to allow him to fulfil his carnal desire. 

“Having heard the story of the woman Hazrat Ali (A) exclaimed, “The one who is compelled by circumstances in case he or she is not disobedient and does not exceed the limits of law and go beyond the restrictions put on him or her by Allah they are not responsible for any crime committed under such circumstances.” Hearing this Hazrat Omar (RA) released the woman.”

(Manaqib, vol. 2, p. 190, Biharul Anwar, vol. 9, p. 484, Riaz, vol. 2 p. 259; Zakheeratul Uqba,  p. 81, Turuqi Hikmia by Ibne Qaiyum).

And Allah knows best

Layman (pls correct if I am wrong)

Wsalam

Nice relation

but had a big cackle at HAZRAT Omar(RA...bwahahahahaa) lol

XD XD :hahaha: thats too much! I’m dying here! Have so mercy!

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2 hours ago, Ralvi said:

Nice relation

but had a big cackle at HAZRAT Omar(RA...bwahahahahaa) lol

XD XD :hahaha: thats too much! I’m dying here! Have so mercy!

Btw I did not write that, it was written by the website. Plus it’s also a Shi’a website... I think they’re trying to be more inclusive to their Sunni brothers audience. Though I don’t necessarily agree with it

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You are taking it too extreme. I’ve yet to see a person who had his hand chopped off due to the Islamic punishment.

As far as the punishment in the hereafter, that’s a whole different logic altogether.

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13 minutes ago, Ejaz said:

Btw I did not write that, it was written by the website. Plus it’s also a Shi’a website... I think they’re trying to be more inclusive to their Sunni brothers audience. Though I don’t necessarily agree with it

Yeah I figured it wasn’t you

 and I think being open minded is important but we shouldn’t compromise on calling the wolf in sheeps clothing when we see it. It’s important to not compromise the truth just to make people feel comfortable or happy. That’s really not our job anayway. If even after a millennia we can’t admit it then when will change come? 

Thats just a thought being put into the ether not directed at you my brother :-)

we can be nice and open minded yet firm. Firmness begets trust and reliability 

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5 hours ago, Ralvi said:

Yeah I figured it wasn’t you

 and I think being open minded is important but we shouldn’t compromise on calling the wolf in sheeps clothing when we see it. It’s important to not compromise the truth just to make people feel comfortable or happy. That’s really not our job anayway. If even after a millennia we can’t admit it then when will change come? 

Thats just a thought being put into the ether not directed at you my brother :-)

we can be nice and open minded yet firm. Firmness begets trust and reliability 

completely agree bro, there is an academic way of presenting our theology and there is an unislamic way that the Ahlulbayt a.s would not approve of. I’m sure you know which “agents” I am talking about and who Imam Khamenei says we need to expose.

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On 12/27/2018 at 10:07 AM, What should I type here? said:

I absolutely believe Allah exists, I don't have any doubt about it. I do, however, feel that he is unjust.

Is it a problem I feel today's judicial punishments are better than Allah's? More precisely, I mean more humane.

I feel disgusted by the punishment of flogging and stoning.

And the agony that awaits us all in the grave and the afterlife.

What adds more salt to the would is something that had happened with a prophet, I don't remember exactly which. But the story goes like this.

This prophet was praying, his wife talked to him while he was praying because his son had fallen in a well. He then swore  to her that she'll receive 100 lashes (not sure if it was exactly 100). Then he tied 100 bamboos to each other and gave her 1 lash, apparently its valid.

Now I have 2 complaints about this.

1- why is it 100 lashes for only that in the first place, how is that just? Maybe it is, but my human mind is not willing to accept that it is.

2- How was tying all bamboos to each other logical? Does she get some kind of privilege because she's a prophet's wife? While others will suffer from tens of lashes under the sharia law? (I thought that maybe he could do that because he only swore to do that, and that it wasn't the sharia law than gave her that punishment)

Hi the story that you heard is not true 

And remember Our servant Ayyub, when he called upon his Lord: The Shaitan has afflicted me with toil and torment. (41) Urge with your foot; here is a cool washing-place and a drink. (42)

And We gave him his family and the like of them with them, as a mercy from Us, and as a reminder to those possessed of understanding. (43) And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with It and do not break your oath; surely We found him patient; most excellent the servant! Surely he was frequent in returning (to Allah). (44)

We told him, "Take a handful of straw. Strike your wife with it to fulfill your oath." We found him to be patient. What an excellent servant he was. He was certainly most repenting. (44)

We said], "And take in your hand a bunch [of grass] and strike with it and do not break your oath." Indeed, We found him patient, an excellent servant. Indeed, he was one repeatedly turning back [to Allah]. (44)

http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.shakir/38:43

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job_(biblical_figure)

He was a prophet that god allowed to Satan /Shaytan take everything from him like as wealth children ,health & his child & at the end made him very ill & he and his wife didn’t have nothing to eat some scholars say that his wife sell her hair to buy food without his permission & another one says Shaytan/ Satan talked with his wife & said to her if he says word of Shaytan/Satan ,everything will back to normal but prophet Ayyub/Job refused it & becomes angry that made an oath in name of God that he will beat her when he becomes healthy again when he gains his again health from God /Allah ,god ordered him to beat her with bunch [of grass] in order to not break his oath 

So 

1.its not accepted 

2.it was a bunch of soft grass ,he hitter him because made an oath in name of God/Allah.

http://www.islamquest.net/fa/archive/question/fa42853

http://fa.wikishia.net/view/ایوب_(پیامبر)

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Dhu_l-Kifl_(a) (it said he was his son & a prophet Ezekiel (as) )

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On 12/28/2018 at 12:20 PM, Marbles said:

the concept of eternal life that to some people feels a crude and fantastical idea.

What is your best possible (or even an acceptable) scenario of an afterlife?

What do you think of what Jean Luc Picard says?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNmLBoR5Q7c

 

Edited by Muhammed Ali

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On 1/3/2019 at 7:25 PM, Muhammed Ali said:

What is your best possible (or even an acceptable) scenario of an afterlife?

Aside from Islam's concept of the afterlife? I don't think there is a better one out there.

Actually, I only interpreted the intent of the OP's question rather than give my own opinion.

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On 12/27/2018 at 11:07 AM, What should I type here? said:

I absolutely believe Allah exists, I don't have any doubt about it. I do, however, feel that he is unjust.

Is it a problem I feel today's judicial punishments are better than Allah's? More precisely, I mean more humane.

I feel disgusted by the punishment of flogging and stoning.

And the agony that awaits us all in the grave and the afterlife.

What adds more salt to the would is something that had happened with a prophet, I don't remember exactly which. But the story goes like this.

This prophet was praying, his wife talked to him while he was praying because his son had fallen in a well. He then swore  to her that she'll receive 100 lashes (not sure if it was exactly 100). Then he tied 100 bamboos to each other and gave her 1 lash, apparently its valid.

Now I have 2 complaints about this.

1- why is it 100 lashes for only that in the first place, how is that just? Maybe it is, but my human mind is not willing to accept that it is.

2- How was tying all bamboos to each other logical? Does she get some kind of privilege because she's a prophet's wife? While others will suffer from tens of lashes under the sharia law? (I thought that maybe he could do that because he only swore to do that, and that it wasn't the sharia law than gave her that punishment)

I beleive hadiths are for the most part BS.  Perhaps you're like me who believes in the message/Quran and not the controversial,  contradiction ridden hadith its supplemented with.

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12 hours ago, wmehar2 said:

I beleive hadiths are for the most part BS.  Perhaps you're like me who believes in the message/Quran and not the controversial,  contradiction ridden hadith its supplemented with.

How do you pray? How many rakah? 

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9 hours ago, Ejaz said:

How do you pray? How many rakah? 

The how isnt as important as the  "when " and  "does one actually prostrate " reciting the verses, and what book they follow.

How did the Jews,  Christians and Muslims before and after  the kaaba pray?

لَيْسُوا سَوَآءً  ۗ  مِّنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتٰبِ أُمَّةٌ قَآئِمَةٌ يَتْلُونَ ءَايٰتِ اللَّهِ ءَانَآءَ الَّيْلِ وَهُمْ يَسْجُدُونَ
"They are not [all] the same; among the People of the Scripture is a community standing [in obedience], reciting the verses of Allah during periods of the night and prostrating [in prayer]."
(QS. Aal-i-Imraan 3: Verse 113)

يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْأَاخِرِ وَيَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنْكَرِ وَيُسٰرِعُونَ فِى الْخَيْرٰتِ وَأُولٰٓئِكَ مِنَ الصّٰلِحِينَ
"They believe in Allah and the Last Day, and they enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and hasten to good deeds. And those are among the righteous."
(QS. Aal-i-Imraan 3: Verse 114)

I'm not so certain the righteous people of the scripture referenced above prayed according the prophet's  example.   They are hailed as righteous. 

And does it matter where we face to pray? Below piety/righteousness is defined for us:

لَّيْسَ الْبِرَّ أَنْ تُوَلُّوا وُجُوهَكُمْ قِبَلَ الْمَشْرِقِ وَالْمَغْرِبِ وَلٰكِنَّ الْبِرَّ مَنْ ءَامَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْأَاخِرِ وَالْمَلٰٓئِكَةِ وَالْكِتٰبِ وَالنَّبِيِّۦنَ وَءَاتَى الْمَالَ عَلٰى حُبِّهِۦ ذَوِى الْقُرْبٰى وَالْيَتٰمٰى وَالْمَسٰكِينَ وَابْنَ السَّبِيلِ وَالسَّآئِلِينَ وَفِى الرِّقَابِ وَأَقَامَ الصَّلٰوةَ وَءَاتَى الزَّكٰوةَ وَالْمُوفُونَ بِعَهْدِهِمْ إِذَا عٰهَدُوا  ۖ  وَالصّٰبِرِينَ فِى الْبَأْسَآءِ وَالضَّرَّآءِ وَحِينَ الْبَأْسِ  ۗ  أُولٰٓئِكَ الَّذِينَ صَدَقُوا  ۖ  وَأُولٰٓئِكَ هُمُ الْمُتَّقُونَ
"Righteousness is not that you turn your faces toward the east or the west, but [true] righteousness is [in] one who believes in Allah, the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the prophets and gives wealth, in spite of love for it, to relatives, orphans, the needy, the traveler, those who ask [for help], and for freeing slaves; [and who] establishes prayer and gives zakah; [those who] fulfill their promise when they promise; and [those who] are patient in poverty and hardship and during battle. Those are the ones who have been true, and it is those who are the righteous."
(QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 177)

These verses support my argument that prayer methodologies aren't necessarily strict in a sense there is only one right way to pray.  Heck these alone reshape the constitution of who a believer is and isn't and defies whatever upbringings/teachings  I had growing up. 

i think not all hadith need be rejected but we have been placing far too credibility in them i feel.  And perhaps are contributing to our divisions amongst each other more than we realize. 

From what ive gathered in  quran, there are 3 times of the day to pray and we must cleanse/purify ourselves in preparation beforehand.  I default to pray  the # of rakats I've been taught.. for now until/unless my understanding changes.

 

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