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Quran and Ahl Albayt - Numerical Relations

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9 hours ago, Leibniz said:

I did not know that it was some sort of mining going on  :NH:

Qur'an has multiple layers majority of people just see it's first layer that is it's text that people read & sometimes make decision through it more learned people like as scholars can mine from futher layers but very few can access to more hidden layers & make extraordinary works with it like as many scientist that one of examples of it, is Sheikh Bahaii (رضي الله عنه) that based on his rare knowledge from Qur'an he designed Imam Reza shrine in Mashhad also he made a lossless public bath that was warming water with just one pilot for   hundreds of people from Safavid era to Qajar era when some british archeologist during Qajar era tried to discover it's secret ,they broke it & after that it didn't work again because it was built on Quranic science that they didn't understand it & other Shia scholars can't reach to his level of knowledge as Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) said all of science based on 27 word that we until now just have access to two words of it & Prophet Musa (عليه السلام) had knowledge of 4 words that he could do such extraordinary miracles but rest of words are with Shia Imams that when Imam Mahdi (aj) will reappear inshaAllah he will reveal all remaining words that is complete Jafr to us & we can use full potential of everything in world inshAllah but current numerical relation& calculation is very limited but if somebody knows I completely can does many works with it what we see on site is just a surface of it.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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16 hours ago, Leibniz said:

The fact that is evident to anyone with an objective mind is that the Qur'an is severely deprived of the Shia narrative of Islam and there is hardly any single verse which unequivocally supports the Shia tenets of dispute with the Sunnis. 

Would you dare providing "burhan" for this claim of yours? Or are these just baseless mere words of yours? 

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58 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Would you dare providing "burhan" for this claim of yours? Or are these just baseless mere words of yours? 

Its a negative affirmation. If you believe other wise provide evidence for your claim from Qur'an. To begin with , Let me know how Qur'an affirms Imamah and infallibility.

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1 hour ago, Leibniz said:

Let me know how Qur'an affirms (1) Imamah and (2) infallibility.

1.

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 124:

وَإِذِ ابْتَلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا قَالَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِي قَالَ لَا يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with certain words, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam of men. Ibrahim said: And of my offspring? My covenant does not include the unjust, said He. (English - Shakir) 

Surah Al-Qasas, Verse 5:

وَنُرِيدُ أَن نَّمُنَّ عَلَى الَّذِينَ اسْتُضْعِفُوا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَنَجْعَلَهُمْ أَئِمَّةً وَنَجْعَلَهُمُ الْوَارِثِينَ

And We desired to bestow a favor upon those who were deemed weak in the land, and to make them the Imams, and to make them the heirs, (English - Shakir) 

Surah As-Sajda, Verse 24:

وَجَعَلْنَا مِنْهُمْ أَئِمَّةً يَهْدُونَ بِأَمْرِنَا لَمَّا صَبَرُوا وَكَانُوا بِآيَاتِنَا يُوقِنُونَ

And We made of them Imams to guide by Our command when they were patient, and they were certain of Our communications. (English - Shakir) 

Surah An-Nisa, Verse 59:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنكُمْ فَإِن تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِن كُنتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ ذَٰلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلًا

O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Apostle and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Apostle, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end. (English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 55:

إِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا الَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ وَهُمْ رَاكِعُونَ Only Allah is your Vali and His Apostle and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow. (English - Shakir) 

Infallibility is more easy to prove. So just leaving it for a while.

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I like to add further about the Qur'an and this thread based on hadith thaqalayn:

As the Qur'an guides the believers to the right path and it is a guide to all mankind of all times. The Qur'an is not separated from the pure progeny of the Prophet Muhammad saw as per hadith thaqlayn.

 

Qur'an:

أَفَلَا يَتَدَبَّرُونَ الْقُرْآنَ ۚ وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ غَيْرِ اللَّهِ لَوَجَدُوا فِيهِ اخْتِلَافًا كَثِيرًا

1.    Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction. (4:82)

كِتَابٌ أَنزَلْنَاهُ إِلَيْكَ مُبَارَكٌ لِّيَدَّبَّرُوا آيَاتِهِ وَلِيَتَذَكَّرَ أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ

2.     [This is] a blessed Book which We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], that they might reflect upon its verses and that those of understanding would be reminded. (38:29)

ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّ اللَّهَ نَزَّلَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ ۗ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُوا فِي الْكِتَابِ لَفِي شِقَاقٍ بَعِيدٍ

3.    That is [deserved by them] because Allah has sent down the Book in truth. And indeed, those who differ over the Book are in extreme dissension.(2:176)

وَمَا كَانَ هَٰذَا ٱلْقُرْءَانُ أَن يُفْتَرَىٰ مِن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ وَلَٰكِن تَصْدِيقَ ٱلَّذِى بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ وَتَفْصِيلَ ٱلْكِتَٰبِ لَا رَيْبَ فِيهِ مِن رَّبِّ ٱلْعَٰلَمِينَ

4.    This Qur'an could not have been fabricated by anyone besides Allah; rather, it is a confirmation of what was [revealed] before it, and an elaboration of the Book, there is no doubt in it, from the Lord of all the worlds. (10:37)

          إِنَّ هَٰذَا ٱلْقُرْءَانَ يَهْدِى لِلَّتِى هِىَ أَقْوَمُ وَيُبَشِّرُ ٱلْمُؤْمِنِينَ ٱلَّذِينَ يَعْمَلُونَ ٱلصَّٰلِحَٰتِ أَنَّ لَهُمْ أَجْرًۭا كَبِيرًۭا

5.    Indeed this Qur'an guides to what is most upright, and gives the good news to the faithful who do righteous deeds that there is a great reward for them. (17:9)

وَمِمَّنْ خَلَقْنَآ أُمَّةٌۭ يَهْدُونَ بِٱلْحَقِّ وَبِهِۦ يَعْدِلُونَ

  Among those We have created are a Nation who guide by the truth and do justice thereby. (7:181)

مَا كَانَ حَدِيثًۭا يُفْتَرَىٰ وَلَٰكِن تَصْدِيقَ ٱلَّذِى بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ وَتَفْصِيلَ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ وَهُدًۭى وَرَحْمَةًۭ لِّقَوْمٍۢ يُؤْمِنُونَ

This [Qur'an] is not a fabricated discourse; rather, it is a confirmation of what was [revealed] before it, and an elaboration of all things, and a guidance and mercy for a people who have faith. (12:111)

 وَلَقَدْ ضَرَبْنَا لِلنَّاسِ فِى هَٰذَا ٱلْقُرْءَانِ مِن كُلِّ مَثَلٍۢ لَّعَلَّهُمْ يَتَذَكَّرُونَ

  We have drawn for mankind in this Qur'an every [kind of] example, so that they may take admonition: (039:027)

وَلَقَدْ صَرَّفْنَا لِلنَّاسِ فِى هَٰذَا ٱلْقُرْءَانِ مِن كُلِّ مَثَلٍۢ فَأَبَىٰٓ أَكْثَرُ ٱلنَّاسِ إِلَّا كُفُورًۭا

  We have certainly interspersed this Qur'an with every [kind of] parable for the people, but most people are only intent on ingratitude. (017:089)

  Qur'an mentions ahl albayat of the Prophet Muhammad saw in verse of purification:

 إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ ٱللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنكُمُ ٱلرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ ٱلْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًۭا

Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying. (33:33)

 Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has asked the ummah to love Ahl Albayat:

 ذَٰلِكَ ٱلَّذِى يُبَشِّرُ ٱللَّهُ عِبَادَهُ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ وَعَمِلُوا۟ ٱلصَّٰلِحَٰتِ ۗ قُل لَّآ أَسْـَٔلُكُمْ عَلَيْهِ أَجْرًا إِلَّا ٱلْمَوَدَّةَ فِى ٱلْقُرْبَىٰ ۗ وَمَن يَقْتَرِفْ حَسَنَةًۭ نَّزِدْ لَهُۥ فِيهَا حُسْنًا ۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ غَفُورٌۭ شَكُورٌ

That is of which Allah gives the good news to His servants, (to) those who believe and do good deeds. Say: I do not ask of you any reward for it but love for my near relatives; and whoever earns good, We give him more of good therein; surely Allah is Forgiving, Grateful. (42:23)

           إِنَّ هَٰذَا ٱلْقُرْءَانَ يَهْدِى لِلَّتِى هِىَ أَقْوَمُ وَيُبَشِّرُ ٱلْمُؤْمِنِينَ ٱلَّذِينَ يَعْمَلُونَ ٱلصَّٰلِحَٰتِ أَنَّ لَهُمْ أَجْرًۭا كَبِيرًۭا

 Indeed this Qur'an guides to what is most upright, and gives the good news to the faithful who do righteous deeds that there is a great reward for them. (17:009)

 https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235032391-12-leaders-Imams-as-guide-after-the-Prophet/

٦_١٢٥    فَمَن يُرِدِ ٱللَّهُ أَن يَهْدِيَهُۥ يَشْرَحْ صَدْرَهُۥ لِلْإِسْلَٰمِ ۖ وَمَن يُرِدْ أَن يُضِلَّهُۥ يَجْعَلْ صَدْرَهُۥ ضَيِّقًا حَرَجًۭا كَأَنَّمَا يَصَّعَّدُ فِى ٱلسَّمَآءِ ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ يَجْعَلُ ٱللَّهُ ٱلرِّجْسَ عَلَى ٱلَّذِينَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ

006:125 Whomever Allah desires to guide, He opens his breast to Islam, and whomever He desires to lead astray, He makes his breast narrow and straitened as if he were climbing to a height. Thus does Allah lay [spiritual] defilement on those who do not have faith.

١٠_١٠٠    وَمَا كَانَ لِنَفْسٍ أَن تُؤْمِنَ إِلَّا بِإِذْنِ ٱللَّهِ ۚ وَيَجْعَلُ ٱلرِّجْسَ عَلَى ٱلَّذِينَ لَا يَعْقِلُونَ

010:100 No soul may have faith except by Allah’s leave, and He lays defilement on those who do not exercise their reason.

 

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2 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

1.

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 124:

وَإِذِ ابْتَلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا قَالَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِي قَالَ لَا يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with certain words, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam of men. Ibrahim said: And of my offspring? My covenant does not include the unjust, said He. (English - Shakir) 

Surah Al-Qasas, Verse 5:

وَنُرِيدُ أَن نَّمُنَّ عَلَى الَّذِينَ اسْتُضْعِفُوا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَنَجْعَلَهُمْ أَئِمَّةً وَنَجْعَلَهُمُ الْوَارِثِينَ

And We desired to bestow a favor upon those who were deemed weak in the land, and to make them the Imams, and to make them the heirs, (English - Shakir) 

Surah As-Sajda, Verse 24:

وَجَعَلْنَا مِنْهُمْ أَئِمَّةً يَهْدُونَ بِأَمْرِنَا لَمَّا صَبَرُوا وَكَانُوا بِآيَاتِنَا يُوقِنُونَ

And We made of them Imams to guide by Our command when they were patient, and they were certain of Our communications. (English - Shakir) 

Surah An-Nisa, Verse 59:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنكُمْ فَإِن تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِن كُنتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ ذَٰلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلًا

O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Apostle and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Apostle, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end. (English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 55:

إِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا الَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ وَهُمْ رَاكِعُونَ Only Allah is your Vali and His Apostle and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow. (English - Shakir) 

Infallibility is more easy to prove. So just leaving it for a while.

You have only quoted verses of Qur'an containing the word "Imam". You have to quote me a single verse that can be  unequivocally applied to your Imams.

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7 minutes ago, Leibniz said:

You have to quote me a single verse that can be  unequivocally applied to your Imams.

I can see intellectual dishonesty here. The reason is follows:

4 hours ago, Leibniz said:

Let me know how Qur'an affirms Imamah and infallibility.

All the verses quoted by me are not only affirms the concept of Imamah but all of them are related to our Imams.

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43 minutes ago, Jaane Ya Ali said:

Seven has been mentioned numerous times in the Qur'an and in the Bible.

It just so happens that the word Imam [singular] also appears seven times in the Qur'an.

Alas, it seems the Waqifis were right all along!

Where we  can find the names of 7 Imams in comparison to the verse of Qur'an?

like the same number of letters in the names of 7 Imams as well as in the verse of Qur'an quoting them? I await your reply in order to verify your  claim please.

Edited by skyweb1987

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25 minutes ago, Leibniz said:

You have only quoted verses of Qur'an containing the word "Imam". You have to quote me a single verse that can be  unequivocally applied to your Imams.

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235060471-Qur'an-and-ahl-albayt-numerical-relations/?do=findComment&comment=3199185

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20.   The total letters used in these 14 huroof Muqta'at  are mentioned below:

ا ل م ا ل م ص ا ل ر ا ل م ر ک ھ ی ع ص ط ھ ط س م ط س ی س ص ح م ع س ق ق ن

The  count of these letters is 36. That is exactly equal to the sr no. of Sura no. 36 ie Ya Seeen ie

The name that has been used for Muhamamd saww.

The following alphabets are mentioned to count those alphabets in mysterious letters without repetition:

ا ل م ص ر ک ھ ی ع ط س ح ق ن

The count of these letters is mentioned above to be exactly equal to the number of 14 infallible.

This seems to be another numerical proof of the hadith for 14

ie Awaluna Muhamamd wa Ausatuna Muhamamd wa Akheruna Muhammad wa Kuluna Muhamamd

 In a consistent manner Qur'an defines the numerical relationship with the 14 infallible as a proof of the hadith thaqalyn.

The sentence that can be used to reflect the 14 infallible in the light of above research using these 14 letters (as mentioned by some Shia scholars) is given below:

صراط علی حق نمسکہ

The Path of Ali is Haq (Truth) and we are its followers.    OR

علی صراط حق نمسکہ

Ali is the path of Haq (Truth) and we are its followers.

(...........Continued)

 

Edited by skyweb1987

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1 hour ago, Salsabeel said:

I can see intellectual dishonesty here. The reason is follows:

All the verses quoted by me are not only affirms the concept of Imamah but all of them are related to our Imams.

See , what the Shia pretension about Imamah is? After Muhammad , there would be 12 Imams in his daughter's progeny which would be divinely inspired infallible individuals and it shall be binding upon Muslims to follow them. Quote me a single verse which substantiates this.

Edited by Leibniz

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1 hour ago, Jaane Ya Ali said:

It just so happens that the word Imam [singular] also appears seven times in the Qur'an.

The word Imam has been used total 12 times in the Qur'an. 

7 times in singular form and 5 times in plural form the verses that has the word Imam  are mentioned below:

1. 02:124, 

2. 11:17,

3. 25:74,

4. 46:12,

5. 15:79,

6. 36:12, 

7. 17:71

8. 9:12

9. 21:73

10  28:5

11. 28:41

12. 32:24

 

Edited by skyweb1987

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6 minutes ago, Leibniz said:

See , what the Shia pretension about Imamah is? After Muhammad , there would be 12 Imams in his daughter's progeny which would be divinely inspired infallible individuals and it shall be binding upon Muslims to follow them. Quote me a single verse which substantiates this.

What do you believe in the sources for principles of Islam? 

Qur'an  and hadith? Or others?

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13 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

What do you believe in the sources for principles of Islam? 

Qur'an  and hadith? Or others?

For now we are talking about Qur'an. I claimed that Qur'an is severely deprived of the Shia tenants of faith. You claimed that its otherwise. Anyways , I would not push you on this. The point is that God could rather give us explicit verses about the Shia narrative which would have been far more helpful than these whimsical Jafr games

 

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12 minutes ago, Leibniz said:

For now we are talking about Qur'an. I claimed that Qur'an is severely deprived of the Shia tenants of faith. You claimed that its otherwise. Anyways , I would not push you on this. The point is that God could rather give us explicit verses about the Shia narrative which would have been far more helpful than these whimsical Jafr games

First I have quoted many verses of Qur'an in my earlier post and brother Salsabeel has provided the verses of Qur'an for the chosen representatives by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) from the progeny  of the Prophet Muhamamd saww.

So you  do not believe iin hadith is it so? 

Edited by skyweb1987

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41 minutes ago, Leibniz said:

For now we are talking about Qur'an. I claimed that Qur'an is severely deprived of the Shia tenants of faith. You claimed that its otherwise. Anyways , I would not push you on this. The point is that God could rather give us explicit verses about the Shia narrative which would have been far more helpful than these whimsical Jafr games

 

Qur'an says if it was revealed to Ajam ( non Arabs) the Arabs wouldn’t accept it but despite it revealed in Arabic , Ajam (non Arabs) accepts it it means that if in was name of any Shia Imam was mentioned there will be people that reject their imammate even they go he’ll also in Qur'an two great incident in 33:33 & 76:8 revealed about Prophet Muhammad (pbu) ,Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & Lady Fatima (sa) ,Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) & Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) but still some groups between Muslims like as Salafis & Wahabis  are denying it although it accepted by Sunni sources

And feed with food the needy wretch, the orphan and the prisoner, for love of Him, (8) (Saying): We feed you, for the sake of Allah only. We wish for no reward nor thanks from you; (9) Lo! we fear from our Lord a day of frowning and of fate. (

http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.pickthall/76:8

Why Imam Ali’s name is not ,entioned in Qur'an 

Why are names of The Imams not mentioned in Qur'an  

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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Why Imam Ali[as] is not mentioned by his full name in the Qur'an-Sheikh Muhammad Abbas panju

 

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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2 hours ago, Leibniz said:

See , what the Shia pretension about Imamah is? After Muhammad , there would be 12 Imams in his daughter's progeny which would be divinely inspired infallible individuals and it shall be binding upon Muslims to follow them. Quote me a single verse which substantiates this.

How can there be 12 Imams in her progeny while her husband is the first Imam? You need to redo your math :).

There is no doubt among Muslims in the Imamate of Ali, Hassan and Hussain (peace & blessings of Allah be upon them). Ali ((عليه السلام)) is famous as Imamin Mubeen while his two sons are famous as "syeda shababe ahlil jannah".

Imamate is a covenant of Allah therefore all Imams are chosenones of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and all are tahireen, sabireen and muqsiteen.

If anyone is away from their ma'rifah and their status, he should try his best to get rid of rijs, because it is rijs which has been kept away from these blessed personalities.

And yes, I can provide you the reference of 12 Imams from Qur'an as there are verses present where these blessed personalities some times introduced as mishkaat, zujaj, noorun ala noor, iddata ash-shahoor etc. 

A marjoos cannot get near to them neither he can get access to them. The reason of rijs, some times, related to their  inability to use intellect (wa yaj'al-ur-rijsa alallathina la ya'qeloon).

 

 

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How did the Shia Imams Gain Their Knowledge ? - Imam Hassan Qazwini

Wahhabi question: where is science of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) سؤال وهابي : أين علوم العترة؟

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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