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Asghar Ali Karbalai

Taqleed of today's Scholar

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@Asghar Ali Karbalai Your arguments don't make sense to me. What difference in fiqh rulings are you talking about? A lot of the rulings are literally the same if you talk about taharah, salah, fasting etc. There may be minor differences for example the exact dimensions of kurr water etc.

You're calling for a system of ignorance. Our Imams (as) have left their teachings for us and it is upon our scholars to try their best and to study those. We ignorant people can't expect to form our own opinions when we don't even know a thing about Islam apart from a few books. Sorry to say, but this is nothing but ignorance. Our Imams (as) have warned us in giving a fatwa without knowledge, because we are not in a position to do so. 

Our Imams (as) trained their students, created a school of jurisprudence because they wanted a knowledge revolution in Arabia. Our Imams (as) wanted to create a system where scholars are given the platform to acquire various sciences and to progress intellectually.  I don't know why you're against the system. 

Allah will not punish scholars for trying their best to follow the traditions that they thought were correct based on their reasoning. You know that for one ruling there is a proof given by our scholars. These books which mention the reasoning behind islamic laws are many volumes and are in Arabic. My point is that don't think that they randomly give fatwas, they have their reasoning.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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15 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

It's when you imitate a scholar or follow their fatwas.

Oh I see, thank you. so there are people who act like this?

Well now that I think about it I guess yeah, I see it mostly from our Sunni brothers and sisters especially when it comes to refuting their figures and Imam Ali etc but that may also be cause I haven’t met many Shi’a in real life as there are not a lot in my area. But nobody is save from acting holier than though and Prophet incarnate and being bad in general 

i feel like these kind of people are the worst actually becuase they seem normal but they have really bad intentions huh don’t know how to express what Iam trying to say

They gaslight. And it’s like one who is ignorant yet acts learned and knowledgeable makes the learned and folllwers of truth seem like the ignorant and a mockery

we aren’t perfect we should just strive to be good people and I always want to learn more and more so my Jahil goes away in the most maximized and efficient way 

Edited by Ralvi

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33 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

@Asghar Ali Karbalai Your arguments don't make sense to me. What difference in fiqh rulings are you talking about? A lot of the rulings are literally the same if you talk about taharah, salah, fasting etc. There may be minor differences for example the exact dimensions of kurr water etc.

You're calling for a system of ignorance. Our Imams (as) have left their teachings for us and it is upon our scholars to try their best and to study those. We ignorant people can't expect to form our own opinions when we don't even know a thing about Islam apart from a few books. Sorry to say, but this is nothing but ignorance. Our Imams (as) have warned us in giving a fatwa without knowledge, because we are not in a position to do so. 

Our Imams (as) trained their students, created a school of jurisprudence because they wanted a knowledge revolution in Arabia. Our Imams (as) wanted to create a system where scholars are given the platform to acquire various sciences and to progress intellectually.  I don't know why you're against the system. 

Allah will not punish scholars for trying their best to follow the traditions that they thought were correct based on their reasoning. You know that for one ruling there is a proof given by our scholars. These books which mention the reasoning behind islamic laws are many volumes and are in Arabic. My point is that don't think that they randomly give fatwas, they have their reasoning.

Yeah and scholars are held to a higher accountability right? Becuase they are highly blessed and privileged? 

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45 minutes ago, Ralvi said:

Btw forgive me...What’s taqleed? I’m not pretending to not be an idiot

Iam a major idiot 

:respect:

@Ralvi 

Bro please read the articles in the links below. Taqlid is very important.

https://www.al-islam.org/articles/what-taqleed-shaykh-saleem-bhimji

https://www.al-islam.org/articles/taqlid-meaning-and-reality-sayyid-muhammad-rizvi

https://www.al-islam.org/introduction-islamic-shariah-sayyid-muhammad-rizvi/taqlid-following-expert

 

Edited by AStruggler

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12 minutes ago, Ralvi said:

Yeah and scholars are held to a higher accountability right? Becuase they are highly blessed and privileged? 

Yeah but they won't be punished if they simply tried their best based on their knowledge.

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Fundamental beliefs are called Usul al-deen, i.e. Roots of Religion. The Usul al-deen are five: Three are called Roots of Islam. They are:

(1) Tawhid, Belief in oneness of God;

(2) 'Adl, Justice of God and

(3) Nubuwwat, Belief in the Prophets;

(4) Imamat, the successorship of the Prophet.

(5) Qiyamat, 'Belief in the Day of Judgement.

There is no Taqlid of non Mas'oom(fallible ) allowed here.

***** 

details here , 

https://www.al-islam.org/principles-faith-usul-al-din-husayn-vahid-khorasani

 

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"It is necessary for a Muslim to believe in the fundamentals of faith on the basis of proof and he cannot follow anyone in this respect i.e. he cannot accept he word of another with regard to the fundamentals without demanding proof.

However, in order to act on Islamic code (except in those matters which are considered by all to be indisputable e.g. the obligatory nature of the five daily prayers, fasting during the holy month of Ramadan etc.) a person must adopt one of the following methods:

https://www.al-islam.org/islamic-laws-ayatullah-abul-qasim-al-khui/taqlid

like these matters, 

The Branches of Religion Furu’ al-Deen

 Salat (Prayer), Sawm (Fasting), Hajj (Pilgrimage), Zakat,  Khums , .........

We do Taqlid, follow the most learned (Jurist ) n above matters and others dealing with social, economic issues etc.....

Just like, people follow the constitutional lawyers for constitution issues

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6 hours ago, Asghar Ali Karbalai said:

Fiqh rulings cannot be different too. Islam is one why fiqh is differing then? Qiyas is being done then surely. 

Did the Prophet (saw) or the Imams leave behind, "Everything you ever want to know about Fiqh rulings" book? If not, then the marajae have to derive Fiqh rulings based on thousands of references. It's called Ijtehad. Qiyas would be if they randomly came up with Fiqh rulings with no regard to the references. 

The irony is that your argument about leaving taqleed IS QIYAS.

6 hours ago, Asghar Ali Karbalai said:

Brother you can be content with 10 days of EID, I cannot.

Why not? What's the big deal? you are focused on celebrating eid on a specific day... the focus should be on celebrating eid - that's it.

6 hours ago, Asghar Ali Karbalai said:

About Marja A and B, I get your point, جَزَاكَ اللّهُ خيراً كثيراً. We cannot blame Marja B for Marja A.

Okay then no need to leave taqleed.

 

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2 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Did the Prophet (saw) or the Imams leave behind, "Everything you ever want to know about Fiqh rulings" book? If not, then the marajae have to derive Fiqh rulings based on thousands of references. It's called Ijtehad. Qiyas would be if they randomly came up with Fiqh rulings with no regard to the references. 

The irony is that your argument about leaving taqleed IS QIYAS.

Why not? What's the big deal? you are focused on celebrating eid on a specific day... the focus should be on celebrating eid - that's it.

Okay then no need to leave taqleed.

 

السَّلآمُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ الله وبَرَكآتُه 

Respected brother @ShiaMan14

Hope you are fine إِنْ شَاء َ اللَّه 

Thank you for taking your time out to speak and help me and people like me in this regard however 2 questions I have.

Q1. But we never met them so does not this fall under blind Taqleed? We don't know their activities and their 'aamal' personally.

Q2. 'Ayatullah' is an attribute which has some powers and is solely for Masoomeen(asws), Ayatullah means sign of Allah. One may say this way everybody is Ayatullah because everything is a indeed a sign of Allah, but the Quran mentions the attribute of Ayatullah in the Ayah of Nabi Issa(asws). In which he says that I am Ayatullah and now I will give life to dead (something similar to it). So this is an attribute of Ayatullah to be able to make the dead alive then why are these Scholars using the name of Ayatullah with them?.

@skyweb1987, Can you help in sharing that ayat, respected brother/sister?

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6 hours ago, S.M.H.A. said:

There is no Taqlid of non Mas'oom(fallible ) allowed here.

Salam Taqlid is one of sub groups of accepting Imamate of infallible ,that is order infallible imam of time time to refer to narator of Hadiths.

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2 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Did the Prophet (saw) or the Imams leave behind, "Everything you ever want to know about Fiqh rulings" book? If not, then the marajae have to derive Fiqh rulings based on thousands of references. It's called Ijtehad. Qiyas would be if they randomly came up with Fiqh rulings with no regard to the references. 

it is a book that cals 'Jami'h' that Imam Ali (as) write from saying & actions of prophet that  "Everything you ever want to know about Fiqh rulings" is in that book that everything even ruling about a little scratch on body said & it's from trustees of Imamate that already with Imam Mahdi (aj) but not available to other & he fixes errors in Fatwas of his deputies 

it's a famous event that sheikh Mofid gave a fatwa about a dead pregnant woman that she must burry with his child in her womb because tearing body of believer is not allowed but Imam Mahdi (aj) goes as a man that was riding on a horse to family of that woman and said he is agent of Sheikh that he brings fixing of rulling that they can tear her womb & bring out child before her burial.

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taqlid is must
thats why u taqlid of masumeens a.s and in thier absence u follow thier naibs
imam a.s is gaib..that means he is not hazir to directly answer your matters ..for that he has naibs
if imam a.s would have been hazir u wouldve followed his orders right? u would be his muqallid right? not the muqallid of imam jafar sadiq a.s 
those who were muqallid of imam jafar sadiq a.s even after his death and didnt believe in wallayah of imam musa kazim a.s got separated from twelvers and made a subsect..i think it was called waqfiyyah
taqleed is must ..otherwise u dont even need imams if u r gair muqallid..just follow quran and the prophet like sunnis..even some sunnis believe taqlid to be kufr and leads to deviation 

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1 hour ago, Waleed Tariq said:

taqlid is must
thats why u taqlid of masumeens a.s and in thier absence u follow thier naibs
imam a.s is gaib..that means he is not hazir to directly answer your matters ..for that he has naibs
if imam a.s would have been hazir u wouldve followed his orders right? u would be his muqallid right? not the muqallid of imam jafar sadiq a.s 
those who were muqallid of imam jafar sadiq a.s even after his death and didnt believe in wallayah of imam musa kazim a.s got separated from twelvers and made a subsect..i think it was called waqfiyyah
taqleed is must ..otherwise u dont even need imams if u r gair muqallid..just follow quran and the prophet like sunnis..even some sunnis believe taqlid to be kufr and leads to deviation 

Following naibs is okay. Who decides for example that this person is Naib or that person is Naib? Ofcourse an infallible has to leave a Naib, during minor occultation Imam e zaman(asws) had 4-5 naibs and while going under major occultation he left a note for all of us saying that whoever claims to have met me in my occultation is a liar. Imagine.

So who is deciding that this person is Naib and that person is Naib? They themselves are deciding in each other that he is naib that is naib.

Edited by Asghar Ali Karbalai

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1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam Taqlid is one of sub groups of accepting Imamate of infallible ,that is order infallible imam of time time to refer to narator of Hadiths.

Sorry brother I dd not understand it? What are you saying, sorry?

@S.M.H.A. that's what I mean to say why are we following doing taqleed of a ghair masoom(asws)?

@ali_fatheroforphans

Brother when Imam(asws) comes all will pray EID Salah on one day right? so why in his absence scholars 'so called his naibeen' are suggesting different days?

Also, some mujtahid say do full hijab except eyes, some say that you can show face no problem. These are not small issues, Laws are laid already and are standard for everyone then why difference of opinions?

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1 minute ago, Asghar Ali Karbalai said:

I edited my comment, prolonged it. Kindly read brother.

well yes its on you to follow which marja u like ..i forgot the hadith but there are some qualities which u should have and some characteristics and qualities which u should find in a marja
if u find him to fall within those qualities and characteristics then yes u could follow him

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5 minutes ago, Asghar Ali Karbalai said:

I edited my comment, prolonged it. Kindly read brother.

ayatollah sistani had answered that
Question: What are the ways through which I can identify the most learned of Mujtahids?

Answer: There are three ways of identifying a Mujtahid, and the A'alam:
* when a person is certain that a particular person is a Mujtahid, or the most learned one. For this, he should be a learned person himself, and should possess the capacity to identify a Mujtahid or an A'alam;
* when two persons, who are learned and just and possess the capacity to identify a Mujtahid or the A'alam, confirm that a person is a Mujtahid or an A'lam, provided that two other learned and just persons do not contradict them. In fact, being a Mujt ahid or an A'lam can also be established by a statement of only one trusted and reliable person;
* when a number of learned persons who possess the capacity to identify a Mujtahid or an A'lam, certify that a particular person is a Mujtahid or an A'lam, provided that one is satisfied by their statement.
https://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01191/

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1 minute ago, Waleed Tariq said:

well yes its on you to follow which marja u like ..i forgot the hadith but there are some qualities which u should have and some characteristics and qualities which u should find in a marja
if u find him to fall within those qualities and characteristics then yes u could follow him

I wonder who decided those characteristics, Is it by a masoom(asws) solely? Nehj ul balagha, sermon number 17-18 is about blind taqleed, see surah zukhruf ayat from 32 or 33 mentions about this as well and in surah baqarah also there is an ayah which states something like that they write books by themselves and then take money for it. I will give exact ayahs if anybody wants, Will try to.

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5 minutes ago, Asghar Ali Karbalai said:

I wonder who decided those characteristics, Is it by a masoom(asws) solely? Nehj ul balagha, sermon number 17-18 is about blind taqleed, see surah zukhruf ayat from 32 or 33 mentions about this as well and in surah baqarah also there is an ayah which states something like that they write books by themselves and then take money for it. I will give exact ayahs if anybody wants, Will try to.

the characteristics which i was referring to was in the hadith of imam mahdi  a.s
it was his last commandment i presume so from now on the duty has been shifted on his naibs
many fake naibs like many fake imams would appear and people will follow them too
but the one who has some qualities will follow the truth like those who followed ali a.s  had some qualities in common 

Edited by Waleed Tariq

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5 minutes ago, Waleed Tariq said:

ayatollah sistani had answered that
Question: What are the ways through which I can identify the most learned of Mujtahids?

Answer: There are three ways of identifying a Mujtahid, and the A'alam:
* when a person is certain that a particular person is a Mujtahid, or the most learned one. For this, he should be a learned person himself, and should possess the capacity to identify a Mujtahid or an A'alam;
* when two persons, who are learned and just and possess the capacity to identify a Mujtahid or the A'alam, confirm that a person is a Mujtahid or an A'lam, provided that two other learned and just persons do not contradict them. In fact, being a Mujt ahid or an A'lam can also be established by a statement of only one trusted and reliable person;
* when a number of learned persons who possess the capacity to identify a Mujtahid or an A'lam, certify that a particular person is a Mujtahid or an A'lam, provided that one is satisfied by their statement.
https://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01191/

Brother

He himself is a mujtahid so he must have become by following some rules prior, those rules I am talking about, the basic rules, these basic rules should have been laid down by masoomeen(asws) only right, that's what we have to find out.

I am sure there is a disconnect somewhere why are mujtahid anti if they are following the same teachings you know...

Mr. Khomeni was a great character for Islam perhaps as to what we have always heard but there is a shrine of him in Iran and there is ziarat written outside his shrine, Assalam o alaika ya roohullah Khomeni?

I mean he was not a masoom(asws) why is there a shrine for him seperately and that too with his ziarat outside written his shrine????

What is happening?

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