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In the Name of God بسم الله

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10 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

 

9) If Third testimony IF is a part of kailma, what do we testify in namaz then? (Tashahud and its meaning). Isn't that hypocrisy of us shias?

Faith  and Islamic Acts(prescribed way) . 

In Non Literal way/understanding...

You believe/testify to  the Qur'an as book of Allah(awj) but you don't in  "literal word" or " Sentence" testify to it as part of Prayer. . ( Reading/reciting part of the Qur;an in the salat(prayer) , same is testifying to it) . 

When you read the obligatory Surah ( Fatiha) in your prayer, you testify to many things. 

In prayer when you Say Salawat, you mention many names indirectly. ( see below) 

*****

إِنَّ اللَّهَ وَمَلَائِكَتَهُ يُصَلُّونَ عَلَى النَّبِيِّ ۚ يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا صَلُّوا عَلَيْهِ وَسَلِّمُوا تَسْلِيمًا {56}

[Pickthal 33:56] Lo! Allah and His angels shower blessings on the Prophet. O ye who believe! Ask blessings on him and salute him with a worthy salutation.
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 33:56]

Allah sends His blessings (salawat) on the Holy Prophet. The angels invoke Allah to send His blessings on him. The believers are also commanded to invoke Allah to send His blessings on him. The Muslims asked the Holy Prophet: "How are we to seek blessings on you?" He said: "Say: 'O Allah, send blessings on Muhammad and on the al (children) of Muhammad."

Fakh al Din al Razi writes that the Ahl ul Bayt are at par with the Holy Prophet in five things (one of which is) in invoking the blessings of Allah during prayers, after each tashahud which, if not recited, renders the salat null and void. Bukhari writes in his Sahih, page 127, volume 3 (Egypt edition) that the Holy Prophet said: "Say: 'O Allah send blessings on Muhammad and on ali Muhammad (Ah ul Bayt) just as You blessed Ibrahim and ali Ibrahim'."

...........

Ahmad bin Hanbal writes in his Musnad, volume 6 page 323, that the Holy Prophet covered Ali, Fatimah, Hasan and Husayn with a blanket and said: "O Allah these are my Abl ul Bayt so I invoke You to send Your blessings on Muhammad and ali Muhammad."

Muslim has also related this in his Sahih, in part I of "the book of prayers."

Also refer to Mushkil al Athar by Tahawi (volume 1, page 334), Kanz al Ummal by Ali Muttaqi (volume 7, page 103) and Tafsir Durr al Manthur by Jalaluddin al Suyuti in his interpretation of ayah al tat-hir. He has also quoted the well-known verse composed by Al Shafi-i:

"O Ahl ul Bayt of Allah's messenger, your love is a duty made obligatory upon us in the Quran. It is enough among your great privileges that whoever does not invoke Allah's blessings on you, his prayer (salat) is void."

Ibn Hajar also quoted these lines of Shafi-i on page 88 of his Sawa-iq al Muhriqah, in connection with his interpretation of verse 33 of Ahzab.

It is compulsory to recite salawat whenever the name of the Holy Prophet is mentioned.

If a believer really desires fulfilment of his or her supplication, salawat must be recited before and also at the end of the prayer because in that case whatever the prayer contains in the beginning, in the middle, and in the end will be accepted by Allah as the salawat has covered and encircled the whole supplication, and as salawat is always accepted by Allah (because He Himself recites salawat on the Holy Prophet) the entire prayer is accepted by Him.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

The recitation of salawat implies that the believers should not worship the Holy Prophet as a deity. He is the most honoured servant of Allah for whom Allah sends His highest blessings, because he is the first and the foremost in submission and devotion to Allah. The Ahl ul Bayt have been included with him, by his command, because they are also equal to him in submission and devotion to Allah.

http://quran.al-islam.org/

Edited by S.M.H.A.

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If i say salawat and mention names indirectly, then why 2nd testimony of Muhammad S.A.W should be given in tashahud definately in salawat the first name you say is of Muhammad S.A.W then is namaz okay without 2nd testimony? 

Three main testimonies (you and i know) are of Allah The Almighty, Risalat o nabuwat and Wilayat. These do cover everything. These have been proved from Quran. We shias do prove them using ayahs like 70:33 or 5:55.

Each is as important as the other when. And plus where did God reserve tashahud for himself? Tashahud doesnt mean shahdatein.

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إِذَا جَاءَكَ الْمُنَافِقُونَ قَالُوا نَشْهَدُ إِنَّكَ لَرَسُولُ اللَّهِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ إِنَّكَ لَرَسُولُهُ وَاللَّهُ يَشْهَدُ إِنَّ الْمُنَافِقِينَ لَكَاذِبُونَ {1}

 [Pickthal 63:1] When the hypocrites come unto thee (O Muhammad), they say: We bear witness that thou art indeed Allah's messenger. And Allah knoweth that thou art indeed His messenger, and Allah beareth witness that the hypocrites indeed are speaking falsely.

It has nothing to do with question i asked. its just like hypocrites saying one thing but Allah says that he knows that they are different from inside and are liars. Rather i see without 3rd testimony, they are munafiqs and hypocrites.

Plus i told you guys to keep mujtahidism aside.

Next i have seen that Bashir najafis video and he has mentioned. i think he is saying this about 3rd testimony in Fiqh al Raza in which there is no ALi un wali ullah in azaan as well. 

Fiqh al Raza isn't the only book, Misbah ul mutahajjid Sheikh Tusi has also written ali un wali ullah in tashahud in namaz e zuhurs 4th rakat. Plus hadith arent primary sources. Quran ends with at least 3 wiliayats, who deny them is batil himself. i havent quoted any hadith nor i am an expert, but i do see quran and as per 70:33, we have clear guidance from Allah. 

Admin isn't approving my comments whats the problem? everyone else can comment i cannot!

 

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yes i cannot offer 4 rakat instead of 3 rakat magrib. very satisfying answer. now can i offer 2 rakat instead of 3 rakat magrib ??

Yes i cannot do more than 1 ruku and 2 sajdas in namaz. satisfying answer. but can i do 1 sajdah and 0 ruku in namaz??\

Yes i cannot call hazrat Abbas an Imam, satisfying answer. But i can call Khomenin an imam? Or can i believe in 11 imamas only??

If things cannot be added, they can't either be subracted as well.

bashir najafi has ilm e gaib and knows that we want to teach Allah and Rasool S.A.W about namaz. Curse be upon the liars.

 

 

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give me a single authentic in which Imam has prhibited Ali un wali ullah in namaz.. Give me a single authentic hadith in which Imam has warned Shias about people who will give third testimony later in namaz or other acts of worship. where has it been prohibited. you guys do taqleed so please respect ulima like Sadiq shirazi who gave permission to recite 3rd shahadah. so according to bahir Najafi, Syed Sadiq Shirazi is false as well??? You guys shouyld repect ulima of your own sect.

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Islam isn't deen of sheikh mufeed nor pakistani mullas. Quran is hujjat not writing of sheikh mufeed. read 70:33 and tell me why shouldn't i recite . read 5:55 and tell me when God has made something, why should i testify it infront of Allah where he want me to testify. what is meaning of tashahud? please tell me? i am no expert. but i want to learn. Tashahud according to google has meaning of wintesses or testomony. of what? testimony of kalima / faith. just tell me why shouldn't I? i present ayah of Quran not Zameer Akhters book or sheikh Mufeeds opinion.i respect everyone. Taqi Majlisi and Baqir Majlisi are alims and well know as well.

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Hwen Imam e Sadiq (عليه السلام) says

قال امام صادق علیه السلام : اذا قال احدكم لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله فلیقل علی امیر المومنین ولی الله.

Imam Jafar Sadiq (عليه السلام) says: “When any one from you says ‘La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadan Rasool Allah” then he must say ‘Alian Wali Allah’.    [Ref: Al-Ehtejaaj Vol: 1 Pg: 230 / Bihar Al Anwar Vol: 27 Hadees: 1]

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ayatullah sadiq hussein sherazi is controversial
infact i have yet to see how many have given him permission for ijrehad except his sherazi group
one must say aliun waliullah i agree but how do u know the hadiths are authentic ...
 

Most shia scholars do not make any assumptions about the authenticity of a hadith book. Most believe that there are no "sahih" hadith books that are completely reliable. Hadith books are compiled by fallible people, and thus realistically, they inevitably have a mixture of strong and weak hadiths. Kulayni himself stated in his preface that he only collected hadiths he thought were important and sufficient for Muslims to know, and he left the verification of these hadiths up to later scholars. Kulayni also states, in reference to hadiths:

"whatever (hadith) agrees with the Book of God (the Qur'an), accept it. And whatever contradicts it, reject it"

ulama after years of studying know about hadiths authenticity
sheikh mufeed himself never said third testimony in salat
does anybody can claim hes much better shia then him?
why not give 4th testimony too that fatima a.s and other imams are infalliables and hujjatullah ?
ask this to sadiq sherazi..he would even call it muhtaseb
 

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u arent marja and u have cursed lairs implying bashir ahmed najfi is a liar..and alot of marja have said its not allowed ..and yes its mostly pakistani thing ..just like the question of syed woman marrying non sayyid which according to sadiq sherazi makrooh and which the pakistanis think is not permitted
i have yet to see who has given him permission of marjaya..last time i heard they give each other permission for marjaiyyat
the books u have mentioned ..authors himself say they arent certain about them and have presented their thinking..and upon which present ulma after reading many booksdraw thier conclusion upon
quran has told us about wilayate ali without naming him..if he had named him the problem would have been solved but this wold have implied only he could have been imam and no one after himself..after ali a.s there are imams !
fatima a.s is hujjah on ali a.s..whyher name should not be taken in salat?isnt she mentioned in quran?

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On 12/16/2018 at 5:49 AM, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Islam isn't deen of sheikh mufeed nor Pakistani mullas. Qur'an is hujjat not writing of sheikh mufeed. read 70:33 and tell me why shouldn't I recite . read 5:55 and tell me when God has made something, why should I testify it infront of Allah where he want me to testify. what is meaning of tashahud? please tell me? I am no expert. but I want to learn. Tashahud according to google has meaning of wintesses or testomony. of what? testimony of kalima / faith. just tell me why shouldn't I? I present ayah of Qur'an not Zameer Akhters book or sheikh Mufeeds opinion.I respect everyone. Taqi Majlisi and Baqir Majlisi are alims and well know as well.

u can recite this as it is in salat ..but if u add Ali (عليه السلام) in it then u are adding inside verse which is haram..

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On 12/16/2018 at 5:53 AM, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Hwen Imam e Sadiq (عليه السلام) says

قال امام صادق علیه السلام : اذا قال احدكم لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله فلیقل علی امیر المومنین ولی الله.

Imam Jafar Sadiq (عليه السلام) says: “When any one from you says ‘La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadan Rasool Allah” then he must say ‘Alian Wali Allah’.    [Ref: Al-Ehtejaaj Vol: 1 Pg: 230 / Bihar Al Anwar Vol: 27 Hadees: 1]

yes u should say but not in salat
and u don’t even say la illaha illah but u say ashadu Allah illaha illallah ..this was the kalma which the people would recite to enter Islam and which is present in tashud
so why don’t leave ashadu ana illaha illalah and just say la illaha illalah in tashud? isnt this in Qur'an? doesnt it have the same meaning as ashadu Allah illaha illalah?

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Walid Tariq i listen to Bashir Najafi sahib in as well( less compared to others) he said we want to teach Allah and Rasool the Namaz. I said curse be upon the liar. If i want to teach and i am lying here, then curse be upon me and my thoughts. Point is why cannot i say it in salat. has any imam prohibited >? any hadith from imam in which he prohibited. I am not an expert to present refrences. I presented one hadith which i have heard by our alims and they said its okay. Imam e Sadiq says above hadith and bashir najafi say donot recite why? And if bashir najafi has reqad alot of hadith against above one, that prohibits 3rd testimony, then show me one. with refrence and its authenticty ( with refrence of book of particular scholor) i will go and show my alims that hadith. 

قال امام صادق علیه السلام : اذا قال احدكم لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله فلیقل علی امیر المومنین ولی الله.
 
this has no criteria menioned. My Leader Jaffer e Sadiq A.S says recite. since the quote doesnt mention any condition, therefore it is applicable in every manner. imam says when ytou say shahadatein say shahadt e salisa then please bring hadith in which imam stopped from wilayat of Ali in namaz or azaan. so that i can see that Marajas have viewd alot more ahadith in contradiction and derived a possible (best) solution! 

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Walid Tariq isnt that a childish question that hadith says la ilaha illalah while i say ashadu Allah ilaha illalah. So i should say la ilaha illalah. Knowing i am reciting it in tashahud, i can say that. 

You tashahud is

ashadu Allah ilaha illalah wah da hu la sharika lahu wa ash hadu anna muhammad an abdu hu wa rasoolu Allah humma salle ala Muhammad, wa aal e Muhammad

Can you show this one by single hadith with Sanad e Sahih without addition or subtraction of a single harf? 

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plus i typed Ash hadu Allah in hurry while in arabic its 

أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وحده لا شريك له, وأشهد أنّ محمدا عبده ورسوله. اللهم صلى على محمد وآل محمد 

We are exactly testifying by saying word أشهد which means i testify. 

What sort of question is that?

Plus you say "quran has told us about wilayate ali without naming him..if he had named him the problem would have been solved but this wold have implied only he could have been imam and no one after himself..after ali a.s there are imams !
fatima a.s is hujjah on ali a.s..whyher name should not be taken in salat?isnt she mentioned in quran?"

Q: So If quran hasn't named, why should we?

Because Muhammad S.A.W and Aima A.S has named it wilayat e Ali.

Plus i you said Q he could have been an imam.

So you want to say he could have been but wasn't an imam?

Plus like in ayah:

 أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ 

Which Rasool to obey? A: The one who told you this.

now :

اِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ اللّٰهُ وَرَسُوۡلُهٗ وَالَّذِيۡنَ اٰمَنُوۡا الَّذِيۡنَ يُقِيۡمُوۡنَ الصَّلٰوةَ وَيُؤۡتُوۡنَ الزَّكٰوةَ وَهُمۡ رٰكِعُوۡنَ‏ ﴿۵۵

Who are the ones who pay zakat while they bow down?

A: Ones whom Rasool S.A.W and Aima A.S told us about.

i didn't expect such questions from shias though, You should listen to Allama Shahenshah NAqvi why their names havn't been mentioned in quran. 

Who is Imam e Mubeen? Who is the one who pay zakat while he bow down, who is the one who is enough for testimony of Risalat with Allah.

I doubt if shias like you have a strong concept of wilayat.

 

What do you mean by tashahud first tell me this? Here i am quoting a hadith from Imam Muhammad Baqir A.S:

قلت لابی جعفر علیه السلام أی شیء أقول فی التشهد و القنوت؟ قال قل بأحسن ما علمت فإنه لو كان موقناً لهلك الناس

Some one asked Imam Muhammad Baqir (as) as to what is to be recited in the qunoot and Tashahhud of Namaz.

 Imam Replied saying: “Recite that seems best, if this would have been fixed (as to what is to be recited) then people would have been perished”.

 

[Ref: Furu-e-Kaafi Vol: 3 Pg: 337 & Khulasat-al-Haqaiq vol: 1 pg: 255]
 
Kaafi.jpg?attachauth=ANoY7cpQBDqHUdpYh9t
 
 
Imam Baqir says recite what seems best

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Who are you and your molvis to fix tashahud then?

I am tired of writing this again and again. bring someone who can convince and teach me. 

Allah says in quran:

 

وَالَّذينَ هُم بِشَهاداتِهِم قائِمونَ
 وَالَّذينَ هُم عَلىٰ صَلاتِهِم يُحافِظونَ
 أُولٰئِكَ في جَنّاتٍ مُكرَمونَ
Allah uses the word شهادات  not شهادتين.
شهادتين is for two testimonies
شهادات  is for more than two at least.
when God has told to be atleast with at least at least at least with 3 in order to enter the paradise (gardens), who is your molvi to call my namaz azaan iqamah batil?????
When Muhammad S.A.W announced la ilaha illalah for the first time, he didn't announce about his own testimony and people who said la ilaha illalah definately went to paradise, next was ashadu anna muhammad an abdu hu wa rasoolu and one who died on it went to paradise but at ghadeer e khum, Allah made wilayat obligatory, i dont need to mention ayahs that were revealed there where Allah said to Muhammad S.A.W if you donot do this, then you haven't conyed the message of Allah,
 
All ullama e shia say Wilayat e Ali was declared openly. There are atleast three wilayats according to Quran 5:55 which are to be testified. Allah want you to testy in tashahud, while you skip shahadat e salisa. According to above ayat you should testify forat least 3 so kalima and tashahud are where you give testimonies so WHY NOT THERE!?

 

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You ask why I don’t take names of all Imams in tashahud. Its 3rd shahadah of wilayat and imamte which testifies all 12. I take it with intention of testifying imamate of all 12 Imams.

You believe in Nabuwat in usool e din, why don’t you testify 1,02,4000 Prophets? don’t you believe I. Them? But Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is the best Nabi and Rasool so we testify by saying his name, indirectly its testimony of all the Prophets. Similarly after Risalat, there is Imamate and Ali is the Best Imam and we testify his wilayat which is sufficient and is testimony of imamate of all 12 Imams. 

You say Ali could have been an Imam what a cusred faith is that. You mean Ali wasn't an Imam?

What does imamate of other Imams has to do with imamate of Ali A S? They got imamate by testifying Wilayat e Ali (عليه السلام). Prophets got prophethood by testifying Alis Wilayat. All Shias do believe in all this and their are ahadiths plus I am already on a Shia chat site. Shame on Shias like you who don’t have a right aqeeda. You doubt in imamate of Ali (عليه السلام) by saying he could have been an Imam. Seriously are you a Shia?

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On 2/1/2019 at 8:49 PM, Warilla said:

Follow the Salat of Prophet Muhammad and Imam Ali if. Can anyone proove they read it in Salat ?

Then what are they refrences I gave?

Read tafseer of Surah Bani Isreal Ayat 110 from Tafseer e Burhan or Tafseer e Noor us saqalain! Even Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) bore witness to wilayat e Ali in namaz as per ayah tafseer.

 

What about 10s of Hadiths and order of Imam e Jaffer (عليه السلام) to say Ali un wali ullah where ever you say Shahadatein?

So you want to say Imam ordered us something else and secretly did something else?

Man la yaz zarahu al faqihhadith 938 Imam was asked by his sahabi that cane we take names of Imam in Namaz!

He asked about namaz and Imam replied say them collectively. What now?

If saying names in tashahud made namaz batil Imam jaffar e Sadiq woulf immediately have told sahabi not ti take in tashahud!

124000-1 Prophets bore witness to wilayat e Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and wilayat  e Ali when Rasool asked them hoe they became Prophets. They asked by teatifying to your and your brother Alis wilayat. 

Qur'an 5:55 tells wilayat and Qur'an 70:33 orders to stand by at least shahadaat plural in Arabic is applied on at least three or more. Now how can you seperate shahadat e salisa from shahadatein. And Imam hasnt recited or hid it due to taqiyyah because taqiyyah was done to protect our deen and to convey it. Even Moulana ishaq admits people named Ali Hassan Hussein Fatima were killed by ummayas. Thus u think it was possible to go and call (azaan) Ali un waliullah or recite Ali un wali ullah in namaz? Imams did taqiiyah but provided us with deen e Muhammad. Understand how important is wilayat e Ali (عليه السلام)

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13 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Then what are they refrences I gave?

Read tafseer of Surah Bani Isreal Ayat 110 from Tafseer e Burhan or Tafseer e Noor us saqalain! Even Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) bore witness to wilayat e Ali in namaz as per ayah tafseer.

 

What about 10s of Hadiths and order of Imam e Jaffer (عليه السلام) to say Ali un wali ullah where ever you say Shahadatein?

So you want to say Imam ordered us something else and secretly did something else?

Man la yaz zarahu al faqihhadith 938 Imam was asked by his sahabi that cane we take names of Imam in Namaz!

He asked about namaz and Imam replied say them collectively. What now?

If saying names in tashahud made namaz batil Imam jaffar e Sadiq woulf immediately have told sahabi not ti take in tashahud!

124000-1 Prophets bore witness to wilayat e Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and wilayat  e Ali when Rasool asked them hoe they became Prophets. They asked by teatifying to your and your brother Alis wilayat. 

Qur'an 5:55 tells wilayat and Qur'an 70:33 orders to stand by at least shahadaat plural in Arabic is applied on at least three or more. Now how can you seperate shahadat e salisa from shahadatein. And Imam hasnt recited or hid it due to taqiyyah because taqiyyah was done to protect our deen and to convey it. Even Moulana ishaq admits people named Ali Hassan Hussein Fatima were killed by ummayas. Thus u think it was possible to go and call (azaan) Ali un waliullah or recite Ali un wali ullah in namaz? Imams did taqiiyah but provided us with deen e Muhammad. Understand how important is wilayat e Ali (عليه السلام)

Ever considered those hadith that support it being fabricated? Or is that simply not possible because they go against the grain of your preconceived notion?

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2 hours ago, 786:) said:

Ever considered those hadith that support it being fabricated? Or is that simply not possible because they go against the grain of your preconceived notion?

When Qur'an is in support with a hadith, we do not need anything. Plus show a single hadith in which Imam said donot recite Ali un wali ullah in kalma azaan or namaz.  Now you will bring haidths that don’t have Ali un wali ullah. If one thing isn't mentioned in a riwayat, it isn't negation of that thing. Negation is if Imam prohibits but all you people have is a fatwa of mujtahids whom you follow blindly!

Plus I have read in Usool e Kafi volume 2 that Imam says Our Wilayat is Allah's wilayat and without testifying Allah's wilayat, nothing is acceptable. Same goes for wilayat e masoomeen. We have those haidths of azaan and tashahud without Ali un wali ullah due to taqiyyah that was obligatory in that era as it was order of Imams. Imams did taqiyyah to convey deen. Molvi ishaq Sunni alim admits people named Ali Hassan Hussein were killed in thoses times so u think it was possible to go out and say Ali un waliullah in azaan and namaz openly? Imams conyed everything and gave directions to everything. 

 

I would say do what you think Imam has done! But the way we are criticized for saying Ali un wali ullah, its enough now.

Alot of mujtahids allow Ali un wali ullah as well.

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