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In the Name of God بسم الله

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On 12/14/2018 at 6:51 PM, Asghar Ali Karbalai said:

Assalam o alaikum

Respected brothers and sisters

Hope you are fine in shaALLAH.

My question, I am keeping it very simple.

What is 'Shirk'?

1. Saying someone else is also Allah.

2. Saying what Allah has (an example he sees everything) nobody else can have.

Iblis did not even make that mistake. 

There is a difference in Divine Wali and Wali,( 5:55)  One is the Creator and other is the created and appointed by the Divine.  

This stuff, on the internet is pre-islamic version of gods, they have not moved passed it. so I would not pay attention to their claims. 

*****

So, Iblis had neither any defect in the principle of belief in Allah’s being the Creator, or in belief in Allah’s Lordship in creation and nor in belief in ma’ad. But still he falls so much! Why? Because he does not believe in Allah’s Lordship in Law-giving (Divine legislation) and docs not regard Allah’s command to be obeyed unquestionably, unless Allah’s command would be consistent with (Ibis’s) own thought and desire." 2

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235034818-a-dialogue-on-your-understanding-of-shirk/?tab=comments#comment-2879294 

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6 hours ago, Ralvi said:

i want to learn Arabic! I don’t know it

T-T It’s a shame I don’t know it! I know the secret of these things are in the letters. So learning Arabic is so important to interpret the Quran like the ocean it is-with it’s depth of knowledge. Which might explain the seemingly broken letters beginning of some Surahs. The secrets are in the letter, the backbones, the smallest units, the select purified few 

your passion and love for analyzing everything with in mind that it HAS to relate to the ahulbayt (because you can be objective and humble and see that’s obviously what the truth is) shows me how pure your heart and mind is. Mashallah!! I wish to know the mighty language the Quran came in and the Ahlulbayt spoke in

the wormholes of all wormholes! 

The following links may be helpful:

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234992159-how-to-learn-arabic/

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235050656-learn-arabic-with-arabic_language_eye/

wasalam

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Salaam alaykum,

I have another linked question. 

We know shirk is the worst sin because it is a crime against Allah swt whereas murder is crime against human. Now, does a person have to be provided with the proofs of the Tawhid of Allah and then if he intentionally/stubbornly rejects he will go to hell. I.e. can a polytheist/ atheist be considered jaahil e qassir / enter heaven or does that only apply to ahl e kitab?

If the shirk is “unintentional” will it be punishable by eternal hellfire as Allah doesn’t punish until he sends a messenger?

JazakAllah Khayr for your intellectual replies and JazakAllah to Brother Asghar for seeking in-depth Quran knowledge.

—  layman 

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On 12/15/2018 at 5:21 AM, Asghar Ali Karbalai said:

Assalam o alaikum

Respected brothers and sisters

Hope you are fine in shaALLAH.

My question, I am keeping it very simple.

What is 'Shirk'?

1. Saying someone else is also Allah.

2. Saying what Allah has (an example he sees everything) nobody else can have.

I say 1 is shirk, Do you say both points are shirk, if 'yes' then why if 'no' then why?

I say 1 is shirk because Allah is ahad.

I say 2 is not shirk because Allah hears everything so does Aaqa(saww) hears everything. Aal(asws) e Mohammad(saww) hears everything. An example.

A request kindly do not start debating here. Those who believe that Aaqa(saww) or Aal(asws) e Mohammad(saww) cannot hear everything all the time, kindly do not mind but do not participate in this forum because this will go into a long debate and the real message will get lost.

Let us just learn without debating and contradicting.

For my shi'i and sunni brothers.

@notme

@ali_fatheroforphans

@Salsabeel @3wliya_maryam @Ruqaya101 @realizm @Khadim uz Zahra @Qa'im @Ashvazdanghe @Hameedeh @ShiaMan14 @shia farm girl @Sirius_Bright @starlight @Laayla @Lion of Shia @Abu Nur @Islandsandmirrors @Husayni @Gaius I. Caesar @Murtaza1 @AmirAlmuminin Lover @starlight @SIAR14

Many Muslims incorrectly assume that shirk is restricted to worshipping statues or simply attributing other Gods with the Lord Almighty. 
 
Although statue worship and attributing other forms of deities with Allah is no doubt a form of idolatry, limiting it to this understanding is untenable from the Quran's perspective. Idol worship from the Quran's perspective can take many forms. 
 
Here are some examples of shirk 
 
 
(1) ONE'S OWN EGO AND DESIRE AS SHIRK
 
025.043
"Have you seen him who takes his desires (passion, impulse, lust) (Arabic: Hawahu) for his Allah
(Arabic: Illahahu)? Will you then be a protector over him?"

2) INTERCESSORS AS SHIRK
010:018
“They serve, besides Allah, things that hurt them not nor profit them, and they say: "These are our intercessors with Allah." Say: "Do ye indeed inform Allah of something He knows not, in the heavens or on earth? Glory to Him! and far is He above the partners they ascribe (to Him)!"” 

(3) WORSHIP OF DEAD SAINTS AND PROPHETS IS SHIRK
 
016.020-21 
“Those whom they invoke besides Allah create nothing and are themselves created. (They are things) dead, lifeless: nor do they know when they will be raised up” 
 
018:102
“Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment” 
 
017.056-57 
“Say: "Call on those - besides Him - whom you fancy: they have neither the power to remove your troubles from you nor to change them." Those whom they call upon do desire (for themselves) means of access to their Lord which of those who are nearest and they hope for His Mercy and fear His Wrath: for the Wrath of thy Lord is something to take heed of”
 
Prophets would never have allowed any form of shirk and would have asked their followers to study the scripture instead.
 
003.079
“ It is not (possible) for any human that Allah should give him the Book and the wisdom and prophet hood, then he should say to men: Be my servants rather than Allah's; but rather (he would say): Be worshippers of the Lord by virtue of your teaching the Book and your reading (it yourselves)”
 
003.080
“Nor would he instruct you to take angels and prophets for Lords and patrons. What! would he bid you to unbelief after ye have bowed your will (To Allah in Islam)?”
 
But people claim they are doing nothing wrong:
 
039:003
“ Is it not to Allah that sincere devotion is due? But those who take for protectors other than Allah (say): "We only serve them in order that they may bring us nearer to Allah." Truly Allah will judge between them in that wherein they differ. But Allah guides not such as are false and ungrateful”
 
Even though whom they seek help from are only servants and created beings like them:
  007.194
“Indeed! those on whom you call beside Allah are slaves like you. Call on them now, and let them answer you, if ye are truthful!”  
4) TAKING JINNS AS IDOLS
006.100
“Yet they make the Jinns equals with God, though God did create the Jinns; and they falsely, having no knowledge, attribute to Him sons and daughters. Praise and glory be to Him! (for He is) above what they attribute to Him!”
 
  (5) PROPERTY, GOODS AND ASSETS AS IDOLS
018:034
“And he had fruit. And he said to his comrade, when he spoke with him: I am more than you in wealth, and stronger in respect of men”
 
And finally (from verses 34 to 44), he realised what he had done which amounted to nothing short of shirk. 
 
018:042
So his fruits (and enjoyment) were encompassed (with ruin), and he remained twisting and turning his hands over what he had spent on his property, which had (now) tumbled to pieces to its very foundations, and he could only say, "Woe is me! Would I had never ascribed partners to my Lord 
and Cherisher!"
 
We clearly note how the man revelled in his wealth and status and thought that his bounty was beyond reproach. Rather than remembering His Lord who  was his provider, he entered into a form 
of shirk by directing his desire and worship towards his material wealth. 
 
018:043-44
"Nor had he numbers to help him against Allah, nor was he able to deliver himself. There, the (only) 
protection comes from Allah, the True One. He is the Best to reward, and the Best to give success" 
 
 
(6) HOLDING OTHER SOURCES OTHER THAN WHAT IS REVEALED AS SHIRK
 
006:019
Say: "What thing is most weighty in evidence?" Say: Allah is witness between me and you; This 
Quran has been revealed to me by inspiration, that I may warn you and all whom it reaches. Can 
you possibly bear witness that besides Allah there is another Allah?" Say: "Nay! I cannot bear 
witness!" Say: "But in truth He is the one Allah, and I truly am innocent of (your blasphemy of) joining others with Him”
 
068.036
“What is the matter with you? How judge ye?”
068.037
“Or have ye a book through which ye learn”
068.038
“That ye shall have, through it whatever ye choose?”

(7) RELIGIOUS LEADERS, SCHOLARS AND REVERED PERSONALITIES AS IDOLS
 
009:031
“They have taken as lords beside Allah their Rabbis and their Monks and the Messiah son of Mary, 
when they were bidden to worship only One Allah. There is no Allah save Him. Be He Glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!”

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10 hours ago, Raheel Yunus said:

Many Muslims incorrectly assume that shirk is restricted to worshipping statues or simply attributing other Gods with the Lord Almighty. 
 
Although statue worship and attributing other forms of deities with Allah is no doubt a form of idolatry, limiting it to this understanding is untenable from the Quran's perspective. Idol worship from the Quran's perspective can take many forms. 
 
Here are some examples of shirk 
 
 
(1) ONE'S OWN EGO AND DESIRE AS SHIRK
 
025.043
"Have you seen him who takes his desires (passion, impulse, lust) (Arabic: Hawahu) for his Allah
(Arabic: Illahahu)? Will you then be a protector over him?"

2) INTERCESSORS AS SHIRK
010:018
“They serve, besides Allah, things that hurt them not nor profit them, and they say: "These are our intercessors with Allah." Say: "Do ye indeed inform Allah of something He knows not, in the heavens or on earth? Glory to Him! and far is He above the partners they ascribe (to Him)!"” 

(3) WORSHIP OF DEAD SAINTS AND PROPHETS IS SHIRK
 
016.020-21 
“Those whom they invoke besides Allah create nothing and are themselves created. (They are things) dead, lifeless: nor do they know when they will be raised up” 
 
018:102
“Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment” 
 
017.056-57 
“Say: "Call on those - besides Him - whom you fancy: they have neither the power to remove your troubles from you nor to change them." Those whom they call upon do desire (for themselves) means of access to their Lord which of those who are nearest and they hope for His Mercy and fear His Wrath: for the Wrath of thy Lord is something to take heed of”
 
Prophets would never have allowed any form of shirk and would have asked their followers to study the scripture instead.
 
003.079
“ It is not (possible) for any human that Allah should give him the Book and the wisdom and prophet hood, then he should say to men: Be my servants rather than Allah's; but rather (he would say): Be worshippers of the Lord by virtue of your teaching the Book and your reading (it yourselves)”
 
003.080
“Nor would he instruct you to take angels and prophets for Lords and patrons. What! would he bid you to unbelief after ye have bowed your will (To Allah in Islam)?”
 
But people claim they are doing nothing wrong:
 
039:003
“ Is it not to Allah that sincere devotion is due? But those who take for protectors other than Allah (say): "We only serve them in order that they may bring us nearer to Allah." Truly Allah will judge between them in that wherein they differ. But Allah guides not such as are false and ungrateful”
 
Even though whom they seek help from are only servants and created beings like them:
  007.194
“Indeed! those on whom you call beside Allah are slaves like you. Call on them now, and let them answer you, if ye are truthful!”  
4) TAKING JINNS AS IDOLS
006.100
“Yet they make the Jinns equals with God, though God did create the Jinns; and they falsely, having no knowledge, attribute to Him sons and daughters. Praise and glory be to Him! (for He is) above what they attribute to Him!”
 
  (5) PROPERTY, GOODS AND ASSETS AS IDOLS
018:034
“And he had fruit. And he said to his comrade, when he spoke with him: I am more than you in wealth, and stronger in respect of men”
 
And finally (from verses 34 to 44), he realised what he had done which amounted to nothing short of shirk. 
 
018:042
So his fruits (and enjoyment) were encompassed (with ruin), and he remained twisting and turning his hands over what he had spent on his property, which had (now) tumbled to pieces to its very foundations, and he could only say, "Woe is me! Would I had never ascribed partners to my Lord 
and Cherisher!"
 
We clearly note how the man revelled in his wealth and status and thought that his bounty was beyond reproach. Rather than remembering His Lord who  was his provider, he entered into a form 
of shirk by directing his desire and worship towards his material wealth. 
 
018:043-44
"Nor had he numbers to help him against Allah, nor was he able to deliver himself. There, the (only) 
protection comes from Allah, the True One. He is the Best to reward, and the Best to give success" 
 
 
(6) HOLDING OTHER SOURCES OTHER THAN WHAT IS REVEALED AS SHIRK
 
006:019
Say: "What thing is most weighty in evidence?" Say: Allah is witness between me and you; This 
Quran has been revealed to me by inspiration, that I may warn you and all whom it reaches. Can 
you possibly bear witness that besides Allah there is another Allah?" Say: "Nay! I cannot bear 
witness!" Say: "But in truth He is the one Allah, and I truly am innocent of (your blasphemy of) joining others with Him”
 
068.036
“What is the matter with you? How judge ye?”
068.037
“Or have ye a book through which ye learn”
068.038
“That ye shall have, through it whatever ye choose?”

(7) RELIGIOUS LEADERS, SCHOLARS AND REVERED PERSONALITIES AS IDOLS
 
009:031
“They have taken as lords beside Allah their Rabbis and their Monks and the Messiah son of Mary, 
when they were bidden to worship only One Allah. There is no Allah save Him. Be He Glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!”


:salam:

For number 4) the position of some Shias regarding wasilah/ intercession would be that a) they are not calling upon anyone independently of Allah swt “besides Him” and b) with regards to some verses Allah swt is referring to those who cannot intercede on behalf of them I.e. idols.

bismillah.gif

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَابْتَغُوا إِلَيْهِ الْوَسِيلَةَ وَجَاهِدُوا فِي سَبِيلِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ {35}

[Shakir 5:35] O you who believe! be careful of (your duty to) Allah and seek means of nearness to Him and strive hard in His way that you may be successful.

Commentary:

 Prophet said:

"I and Ali are from one divine light."

 

"I will soon be called back, so I will have to go away from you, but I leave behind, amid you, the thaqalayn(two weighty indispensable influential authorities), the book of Allah and my Ahl ul Bayt. Should you be attached to these two, never, never shall you go astray, after me, for verily these two will never be separated from each other; and, joined together, they shall meet me at the spring of Kawthar."

 

"My Ahl ul Bayt amongst you are like the ark of Nuh. He who sails on it will be safe; but he who holds back shall be drowned and lost.".

 

قَالُوا يَا أَبَانَا اسْتَغْفِرْ لَنَا ذُنُوبَنَا إِنَّا كُنَّا خَاطِئِينَ {97}

[Shakir 12:97] They said: O our father! ask forgiveness of our faults for us, surely we were sinners.

قَالَ سَوْفَ أَسْتَغْفِرُ لَكُمْ رَبِّي ۖ إِنَّهُ هُوَ الْغَفُورُ الرَّحِيمُ {98}

[Shakir 12:98] He said: I will ask for you forgiveness from my Lord; surely He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.

 

وَلَا تَحْسَبَنَّ الَّذِينَ قُتِلُوا فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ أَمْوَاتًا ۚ بَلْ أَحْيَاءٌ عِنْدَ رَبِّهِمْ يُرْزَقُونَ {169}

[Shakir 3:169] And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord

 

وَلَا تَقُولُوا لِمَنْ يُقْتَلُ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ أَمْوَاتٌ ۚ بَلْ أَحْيَاءٌ وَلَٰكِنْ لَا تَشْعُرُونَ {154}

[Shakir 2:154] And do not speak of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead; nay, (they are) alive, but you do not perceive.
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 2:154]

Those, who die and give themselves fully for the sake and in the way of Allah, are not dead. They are alive, attached and closely connected with the ever-living Allah.

It is reported that verse 154 was revealed for the Muslims who were slain in the battle of Badr. In those days the new converts to Islam, like the disbelievers, thought that death means loss of life for ever.

Fisabilillah means "in the way of Allah" or "for the cause of truth". "The way of the devils" means "for the cause of falsehood" (Nisa: 76). Sale's interpretation of fisabilillah (wars fought against non-Muslims to propagate Islam) is a deliberate distortion. There is no compulsion in religion (Baqarah: 256), therefore, the Holy Prophet went to war only when it was forced upon him.

All the created beings are given the opportunity to prove their potential, therefore, everyone is tried with something of fear, hunger, and loss of possessions and children. Those who have attained the highest spiritual maturity through personal virtues, ability to exercise patience, with faith and reliance upon Allah, face the trials successfully and reach the highest stations nearest to Allah. Each individual occupies a different status according to the degree of faith and patience he employs to encounter the test and trial. Some souls are not considered fit to be tried. It is their misfortune. The exemption may be to let their infidelity or hypocrisy grow to its full scope for which there is a painful punishment. (Ali Imran: 178).

The Holy Prophet and the twelve holy Imams occupy the highest status near Allah with reference to the faith in and reliance upon Allah, personal virtues and ability to exercise patience. For the cause of truth, in the way of Allah, they gladly suffered every kind of misery, hardship and calamity of the utmost severity throughout their lives. Only once in the history of the world all kinds of trials, mentioned in this verse (155), to the maximum conceivable degree, have been happily and triumphantly endured and coped with by Imam Husayn and his family and friends in the desert of Karbala. No less was the situation of the other holy Imams under the tyrannical rule of the Ummawi and Abbasi rulers.

Life and death should be understood in the sense of gain and loss in the various stages man passes through, as described by the Quran in verse 154 of this surah. In verse 169 of Ali Imran it is advised not to think that those who are slain in the way of Allah are dead, because they are alive, getting sustenance from their Lord. It means that they are in direct communion with their cherisher and sustainer. The term shahid, in the Quran, refers to this state of existence.

 

وَلَنَبْلُوَنَّكُمْ بِشَيْءٍ مِنَ الْخَوْفِ وَالْجُوعِ وَنَقْصٍ مِنَ الْأَمْوَالِ وَالْأَنْفُسِ وَالثَّمَرَاتِ ۗ وَبَشِّرِ الصَّابِرِينَ {155}

[Shakir 2:155] And We will most certainly try you with somewhat of fear and hunger and loss of property and lives and fruits; and give good news to the patient

-layman

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Also pls refer to this

bismillah.gif
وَاتَّقُوا يَوْمًا لَا تَجْزِي نَفْسٌ عَنْ نَفْسٍ شَيْئًا وَلَا يُقْبَلُ مِنْهَا شَفَاعَةٌ وَلَا يُؤْخَذُ مِنْهَا عَدْلٌ وَلَا هُمْ يُنْصَرُونَ {48}

[Shakir 2:48] And be on your guard against a day when one soul shall not avail another in the least, neither shall intercession on its behalf be accepted, nor shall any compensation be taken from it, nor shall they be helped.
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 2:48]

On the day of resurrection absolute justice will prevail. The chosen people also will be judged in view of their actions.

If "nor shall intercession be accepted" is not understood by knowing its particular use in this verse, and by making reference to other verses of the Quran in this connection, every ordinary reader comes to a wrong conclusion.

Allah has prescribed for Himself mercy (An-am: 12 and 54), and says in verse 87 of Yusuf that verily, none despairs of Allah's mercy save disbelieving people. The just Allah is also the merciful Lord. His mercy conditions His justice.

The verses, which make certain that in the divine scheme of reward and punishment the "institution" of intercession has been firmly established, are quoted below:

Who can intercede with Him, except by His permission. 

(BAQARAH: 255) 

They shall have no power of intercession, save he who has taken a promise from the merciful. 

(MARYAM: 87) 

On that day no intercession avails, save (that of) him to whom the merciful has given permission and whose word He accepts.

(TAHA: 109) 

There is no intercessor save after His permission;

(YUNUS: 3)

 

There are several such verses in the Quran which prove untrue the theory of non-availability of intercession propagated by a misguided school of thought among the Muslims.

The Holy Prophet and the thoroughly purified Imams (Ahzab: 33) are those upon whom Allah has bestowed (an-amta alayhim - Fatihah :7) the power of intercession.

The word shafa (to pair or to join a thing to its like) is the root of shafa-at, which means intercession. It can be favourable or unfavourable, as per verse 85 of al Nisa. It signifies the loving attachment of a person with his ideal or model whom he follows. On the day of judgement the wicked and the virtuous will be separated, therefore, it will be a day of pairing of the souls according to their affinity and attachment in this world - "remember the day when We will summon every people with their Imam (leader)", says verse 71 of Bani Israil.

The inadmissibility of intercession here is in the case of those who not only do not avoid evil but make a choice of wickedness as their mode of life; which is the direct result of their wilful rejection of the path of the thoroughly purified, adherence to whose guidance would have saved them from eternal damnation.

It is this despair of the non-availability of Allah's mercy which had compelled the founders of the Christian Church to invent the doctrine of atonement - God, in order to pardon man, in spite of His justice, incarnated Himself into the form a begotten son, called Jesus, and then got Himself killed so that the price of the sins of man be paid. This unreasonable idea of redemption gives man licence to sin as and when he likes.

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On 12/23/2018 at 5:51 AM, Ejaz said:

Prophet said:

"I and Ali are from one divine light."

I have started a topic asking about the Light of Muhammad:

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235061646-the-creation-of-the-light-of-Muhammad/?tab=comments#comment-3207155

To risk duplication, how would you interpret the saying of Muhammad you quoted?

Is the One Divine Light divided to make Ali and Muhammad?

Are Ali and Muhammad created from nothing but made to resemble the Divine Light?

Or something else?

Richard

PS. What is the source of the Prophet's quotation?

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