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In the Name of God بسم الله

Polemical question about Afghanistan

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  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)

Salam aleykoum,

I was curious to ask a polemical questions about Afghanistan and that would be in particular interresting to see the point of view of afghans.

If one day we talibans take power again in afghanistan or at least a big part of afghan territory (in particular pashtun areas) do you think Afghanistan could split in different territories or some territories could secede from afghanistan and joined other countries ? Like for exemple uzbek territories join uzbekistan and hazara and tajik territories join Iran and so on.

Because after all afghanistan is a multi-etnic and unstable country so i think that would be probable scenario. What is your opinion about that ?

 

Résultat de recherche d'images pour "afghanistan ethnic"

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Salam I just found this article wich say very interresting stuffs about foreign fighters among taliban ranks. By the way I advice everyone here to consult this website wich is very interresting.

Salam aleykoum, I was curious to ask a polemical questions about Afghanistan and that would be in particular interresting to see the point of view of afghans. If one day we talibans take pow

  • Advanced Member (With Brothers Forum Membership)

Salam all of ethnics have Iranian background so it will be no divide Hazaras ,Tajiks &  Balochs don't deny it and Pashtuns & Uzbeks & Turkmens have more  common with Iranians/Persians than what they think ,the problem is Zionists that try to disguis Pashtuns as tenth lost tribe of Jews & puts them against others but they have  mix of Iranian-Jew  heritage not just Jews.

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19 hours ago, alidu78 said:

What is your opinion about that ?

This past year, one in-country Afghan 'watcher' said, the Afghans have seen that movie and do not want it back.

That quoted, the Talibs basic problem is now worse than what l wrote 20 years ago: After 20 years of war, the Afghans as a whole have an illiterate, unemployed collection of groups with no real plan of gov't and thereby incapable of running a gov't.  Now its 40 years with a major US sponsored drug problem.

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6 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam all of ethnics have Iranian background so it will be no divide Hazaras ,Tajiks &  Balochs don't deny it and Pashtuns & Uzbeks & Turkmens have more  common with Iranians/Persians than what they think ,the problem is Zionists that try to disguis Pashtuns as tenth lost tribe of Jews & puts them against others but they have  mix of Iranian-Jew  heritage not just Jews.

Salam I talked about hazaras and tajiks because they have a common language with most of iranians but this is true that after all balochs have an iranian language so why not. Uzbeks and turkmens however i find them very different. They are mostly sunnis and speak a turkic language.

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3 hours ago, hasanhh said:

This past year, one in-country Afghan 'watcher' said, the Afghans have seen that movie and do not want it back.

 

I am really sorry but i didnt understand this sentence. Or i didnt understand of what you are talking about.

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29 minutes ago, alidu78 said:

I am really sorry but i didnt understand this sentence. Or i didnt understand of what you are talking about.

What the Afghan observer was saying is: That the Afghan people had the Taliban in power before and they do not want them back in power.

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22 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

What the Afghan observer was saying is: That the Afghan people had the Taliban in power before and they do not want them back in power.

Well I didn't say that afghans would be agree if talibans take power in big part of the country.... 

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6 hours ago, alidu78 said:

Well I didn't say that afghans would be agree if talibans take power in big part of the country.... 

Then stop aiming to take power, I guess?

The only reason why nations like mine and the Soviet Union invade here to begin with is because they have a surplus of military material to use up in order to justify making more, continuing the cycle ad nauseum. None of the average American people care about Afghanistan or even understand why we are there to begin with, because our leaders can't provide us with a real answer, so my guess is as I have stated above.

They tell use we are there for every reason from trying to establish bases to control China and Russia, to fighting "terrorism"... None of it makes sense.

 

I don't understand why people are even vain enough to chase after power to begin with aside from power being the end itself rather than the means to one. I just wish it would all end, I'm so sick of all of it.

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1 hour ago, GD41586 said:

Then stop aiming to take power, I guess?

Simplistically as not all factors and interests are hence expressed, many groups lumped together by the foreign occupiers call them all "Taliban" and fight the occupations and their collaborators.

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33 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Simplistically as not all factors and interests are hence expressed, many groups lumped together by the foreign occupiers call them all "Taliban" and fight the occupations and their collaborators.

I've never been out of the US&A, so I have no real idea.

 

I'm just saying that maybe chasing after power and control is pointless in a world that's more than likely going to end soon.

 

I don't understand people and their need to be in control and assert their will over others. I've never been like that and it's what I loathe the most about my own country.

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19 hours ago, alidu78 said:

Uzbeks and turkmens however i find them very different. They are mostly sunnis and speak a turkic language

they mostly turks but highly infected with Iranian culture they come to Iran during Abbasids to fight & replace with buyids in Abbasyd war against shias & after that rest of them migrated during mughul Invasion to Iran currently Turkmens of Iran know themsleves as Iranian that Turk & Uzbeks are trying to revive their Iranian heritage more than turkish heritage

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11 hours ago, GD41586 said:

They tell use we are there for every reason from trying to establish bases to control China and Russia, to fighting "terrorism"... None of it makes sense.

 

hi, the last king of Afghanistan was a soviet puppet & because of too much corruption in his government & injustice toward people ,they raised against him then Soviets attacked to Afghanistan for helping him so America trained Talibans & gave them weapons in order to they stand against invasion as a proxy of Americans with religious & financial background support from KSA so Taliban after ending war with soviet Army turned against people of Afghanistan to make Afghanistan & it's people to a colony & base for KSA & Wahhabism  & they weren't counting them as Terrorists until 9/11 happened even now America & KSA support them unofficially but America for keeping it's reputation in world call them terrorist but still uses them against Iran.

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44 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

they mostly turks but highly infected with Iranian culture they come to Iran during Abbasids to fight & replace with buyids in Abbasyd war against shias & after that rest of them migrated during mughul Invasion to Iran currently Turkmens of Iran know themsleves as Iranian that Turk & Uzbeks are trying to revive their Iranian heritage more than turkish heritage

I think whatever we can say they are nowadays closer to actual people living in Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan than those living in Iran and that would be more logic for them to join these countries instead of Iran. 

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19 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

I agree Afghanistan is an artificial country,  Pakistan should absorb all the Pashtun areas we kept their reefugees for so long 

Salam i didnt say that Afghanistan is an artificial country and personnaly i dont want to say that. I was just thinking that if taliban take power in a big part of afghanistan (in particular in pashtun areas) could we not think that tajiks and hazaras would not accept that in majority ? Could thay not join Iran instead of being under taliban pashtun rule ?

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6 minutes ago, alidu78 said:

I think whatever we can say they are nowadays closer to actual people living in Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan than those living in Iran and that would be more logic for them to join these countries instead of Iran. 

the governments of these countrie doing all of their best to stop their people from joining to Iran because their governments are supporting by KSA because of it's anti Iran & shia Islam doctrine but huge number of people are becoming Shia & want closer relation & ties with Iran both culturally & religiously but their corrupted governments stand against it.

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2 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

the governments of these countrie doing all of their best to stop their people from joining to Iran because their governments are supporting by KSA because of it's anti Iran & shia Islam doctrine but huge number of people are becoming Shia & want closer relation & ties with Iran both culturally & religiously but their corrupted governments stand against it.

I had never heard about people becoming shia in turkmenistan or uzbekistan. Is it not a little marginal ? Maybe in tajikistan i guess. But this is true there are many anti -religion policy in this country.

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9 minutes ago, alidu78 said:

could we not think that tajiks and hazaras would not accept that in majority ? Could thay not join Iran instead of being under taliban pashtun rule ?

a few number of Pashtuns are shias & want to be with Iran too like as Tajiks & Hazaras but all of them love their independence ,the main problem is KSA intervention by putting Pashtuns against others ,although i support their joining to Iran but ,it's must be done by their free will & choice at the end they must choose their fate instead of us. 

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20 minutes ago, alidu78 said:

I had never heard about people becoming shia in turkmenistan or uzbekistan. Is it not a little marginal ? Maybe in tajikistan i guess. But this is true there are many anti -religion policy in this country.

they highly sensors but it leaks sometimes when Wahhabi farsi channels go mad for exposing this matter , but they   under disguise of their anti-religion policy  hides it althoigh their people are very religious .

http://fa.wikishia.net/view/ترکمنستان

http://rahyafteha.ir/13476/مردم-ترکمنستان-به-دو-نواده-پيامبر-علاق/

 

http://fa.wikishia.net/view/ازبکستان

http://easterniran.com/fa/doc/analysis/856/

http://rahyafteha.ir/9604/از-شيعيان-ازبكستان-چه-مي-دانيد؟/

تشیع در تاجیکستان (this is a wahhabi video bu proves my point)

https://youtu.be/GRTXioVQW7w

Edited by Ashvazdanghe
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4 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

they highly sensors but it leaks sometimes when Wahhabi farsi channels go mad for exposing this matter , but they   under disguise of their anti-religion policy  hides it althoigh their people are very religious .

Do you have some sources in farsi or other languages about that ?

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19 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

a few number of Pashtuns are shias & want to be with Iran too like as Tajiks & Hazaras but all of them love their independence ,the main problem is KSA intervention by putting Pashtuns against others ,although i support their joining to Iran but ,it's must be done by their free will & choice at the end they must choose their fate instead of us. 

PAshtun shia exist but they are a little minority, also i think tajiks and hazaras would prefer to live under a country rule by shia speaking people more than under a sunni pashtun dominated power. Of course i dont want at all to force anyone to join a country against their freewill i was just asking if that would not be better for them if never taliban take power again in a big part of afghanistan.

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1 hour ago, alidu78 said:

Do you have some sources in farsi or other languages about that ?

already i just found it suitable to share it here but rest of them is full of insults that it's better to not share 

1 hour ago, alidu78 said:

PAshtun shia exist but they are a little minority, also i think tajiks and hazaras would prefer to live under a country rule by shia speaking people more than under a sunni pashtun dominated power. Of course i dont want at all to force anyone to join a country against their freewill i was just asking if that would not be better for them if never taliban take power again in a big part of afghanistan.

i think it will be better but with current condition of Iran , people from both side will stand against other & it may hurt both Iranians & Afghans.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe
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yes I agree thank u

so why is it a bad thing isnt it good? hazaras have faced persecutions in past..its better if they end up with Iran then with taliban

I would be agree with you mostly. You talked about herat region and hazaristan joining Iran if never Taliban take power. There is however an important question we must ask here. What afghans would think about that ? Do they will agree ?

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I don’t think that they will agree
but the pushtuns are in majority over there so definitely they will not want afghanistan to be broken down
I don’t know about the Shias but I wonder why they would not prefer an Islamic govt run by thier own brothers over socalled Islamic govt by pukhtun talibans

Me I think that would be better for them to join Iran but at the end it must be their choice and only if they are threatened by a power in place wich is anti Shia or anti persian. Because honnestly I think even persian heratis who are Sunnis could join Iran not only Shia Afghans.

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apart from this breaking afghanistan serves everyone of its neighbours interest
e.g incase of Pakistan it wont have to worry about its western side any more and could focus on one front I.e east
 

You think pashtun areas controlled by Taliban would join Pakistan ? I don’t think so.

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for that maybe the respective govts have to act in the same manner like ribbentrop molotov pact partitioned poland
Pakistan has its strategical depth in afghanistan and it would never ever want to become a crony of  India 
 

I am maybe wrong but maybe Pakistan want a puppet state afghanistan controlled by taliban.

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u r right actually ...but then there will the friendship last? like the mentality of taliban is expansion and pak army is already in war with Pakistani brand of taliban so it would be a matter of time before they would start do takfeering against pakmarmy 
to be honest I think individual afghani areas would like to exist independently or as a puppet state then joining their neighbours
but what if in supposition thier neighbours took control of these areas ...wouldnt it be much better for peace and stability and would achieve thier national interests?
and don’t u think its better alternative then leaving the warlords to run independant states?
 

Actually Afghan talibans are nationalist and are not interrested in expanding their territories outside Afghanistan. An interresting question I would like to have an answer is to know if there many non pashtuns fighting in taliban ranks in Afghanistan.

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they have claimed this but Pakistani taliban here have connections with them and they all called mullah Umar as ameer ul momineen
in Pakistan the taliban have in thier ranks uzbek Arabic and chechen fighters
plus many pakistanis leave to join taliban in afghanistan
 

I don’t really know but I thought that afghan talibans and Pakistani talibans had some differences. For exemple Pakistani talibans looks to even more anti Shias than afghan talibans. This is maybe true for these foreign fighters but that was not really my question. I was asking if for exemple many afghan persians joined also talibans.

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arent they Sunnis? and no as far as I know they don’t prefer taliban rule..theres a book on them written by christiana lamb ..the sewing circles of herat ..it talks about heratis living under talban rule..

I am maybe wrong but not only hazaras are Shias in Afghanistan. Many persian afghans are also Shias (in minority however yes).

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theres a book on them written by christiana lamb ..the sewing circles of herat ..it talks about heratis living under talban rule..

I never read this book. It said that most persian heratis were against taliban rule ?

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right now it looks good but I don’t know what will happen when United States pulls out..afghans are known for thier teachery 
even if United States pulls out and makes treaties and peace between them..they will throw it behind thier back when the opportunity arises
so sort of a power struggle could occur if United States blindly pulls out without ensuring a strong setup

Look good ? According to some statistics there is now more death in afghan conflict than than in the syrian conflict. Also Taliban looks to be more and more powerful and afghan government more and more weak. No I am not at all optimist about Afghanistan personnaly.

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4 hours ago, hasanhh said:

I saw that but that will be like always. They will say that afghan government is illegitimate and nothing will change until foreign forces leave Afghanistan. 

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