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On 12/9/2018 at 1:19 PM, Raheel Yunus said:


42:52-53 And thus We have revealed to you an inspiration by Our Command. You did not know what the Book is nor (what) faith is. But We have made it a light
by which We guide whom We will of Our slaves
. And indeed, you
guide to the Straight Path,
The path of Allah, the One to Whom belongs whatever is in the heavens and the earth. Unquestionably! To Allah reach all the affairs.

The ayah is self explanatory.

@Salsabeel who do you think this ayah is addressing?  The believers during time of prophet ,   all believers,  Muhammad SAW only or mankind?

Honest question. 

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5 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

@Salsabeel who do you think this ayah is addressing?  The believers during time of prophet ,   all believers,  Muhammad SAW only or mankind?

Honest question. 

The part of verse which I was focusing was this:
 

6 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

And indeed, you
guide to the Straight Path,

"Wa innaka latehdee ila siratin mustaqeem" 

Just to show the existence of Prophetic guidance, which I consider as one of the instrument of the system of guidance created by Allah (s.w.t) for guiding humans. 

As far as your question is concerned, whether the verse is addressing any of the audience in your view, the focused part of the verse is mentioning the Prophet (S).

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On 12/11/2018 at 4:55 AM, Salsabeel said:

Beware, This "Allah only" approach would not put you in a situation where you start denying the personalities who are mentioned as His "signs" (ayaat) and "clear arguments" (baiyyenaat). 

Beware that "Allah only" is not the "Mowla" of believers. You have to obey His command as mentioned in 5:55

Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 55:
إِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا الَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ وَهُمْ رَاكِعُونَ

Only Allah is your Vali and His Apostle and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.
(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 56:
وَمَن يَتَوَلَّ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا فَإِنَّ حِزْبَ اللَّهِ هُمُ الْغَالِبُونَ

And whoever takes Allah and His apostle and those who believe for a guardian, then surely the party of Allah are they that shall be triumphant.
(English - Shakir)

 

But the verse said the Qur'an is a guiding light for believers. 

Im genuinely confused by this seemingly unintuitive statement.  It sounds contradictory. 

On 12/9/2018 at 1:34 PM, Raheel Yunus said:

And thus did We reveal to you an inspired book by Our command. You did not know what the Book was, nor (what) the faith (was), but We made it a light, guiding thereby whom We please of Our servants; and most surely you show the way to the right path:

IF this ayah refers to Muhammad SAW directly  it destroys the idea that he was a believer before revelation bringing a sizable chunk of hadith to the garbage can (although there are other supporting verses).   No way was he a prophet before revelation nor a believer.

If this ayah addresses all Muslims (in the time before and after death of prophet) then the intuition is muhammad in his lifetime taught quran as he was the only one revealing it from Jabriel to the people and had knowledge to supply. And guided non Muslims to Islam by calling them. That is the relevance of the verses you cited.  You  cannot misconstrue  Wali and  mowla, they're two very different words and meanings,  these passages you cited do not have that.

But after his death the quran itself  (We made it a light, guiding thereby whom We please of Our servants;) in its complete form was a sufficient book to give guidance absent the prophet.... 

Who are believers/servants?

إِنَّمَا الْمُؤْمِنُونَ الَّذِينَ إِذَا ذُكِرَ اللَّهُ وَجِلَتْ قُلُوبُهُمْ وَإِذَا تُلِيَتْ عَلَيْهِمْ ءَايٰتُهُۥ زَادَتْهُمْ إِيمٰنًا وَعَلٰى رَبِّهِمْ يَتَوَكَّلُونَ
"The believers are only those who, when Allah is mentioned, their hearts become fearful, and when His verses are recited to them, it increases them in faith; and upon their Lord they rely -"
(QS. Al-Anfaal 8: Verse 2)

 

In which case The line of logic is only Muhammad in his lifetime had quran as it was revealed to him.   The quran was guidance for Muhammad.   Therefore only through him could we get that guidance so..he guided us...as a will of Allah.  Muhammad completed reciting  revelation to us and then passes away but now we have the light, quran....the light of guidance for us.

@Raheel Yunus does this align with your line of thinking when you read these?

Edited by wmehar2

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1 minute ago, wmehar2 said:

But the verse said the Qur'an is a guiding light for believers.

This verse is not mentioning all believers. Please look at the word "min ibadena" (مِنْ عِبَادِنَا) 

The verse is specifically talking about the Prophet & Ahlul Bayt and generally the chosen ones, the guided ones.

فَوَجَدَا عَبْدًا مِّنْ عِبَادِنَا آتَيْنَاهُ رَحْمَةً مِنْ عِندِنَا وَعَلَّمْنَاهُ مِن لَّدُنَّا عِلْمًا
18:65
إِنَّهُمَا مِنْ عِبَادِنَا الْمُؤْمِنِينَ
37:122
ضَرَبَ اللَّهُ مَثَلًا لِّلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا اِمْرَأَةَ نُوحٍ وَاِمْرَأَةَ لُوطٍ كَانَتَا تَحْتَ عَبْدَيْنِ مِنْ عِبَادِنَا صَالِحَيْنِ فَخَانَتَاهُمَا
66:10
 

9 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

IF this ayah refers to Muhammad SAW directly  it destroys the idea that he was a believer before revelation bringing a sizable chunk of hadith to the garbage can (although there are other supporting verses).   No way was he a prophet before revelation nor a believer.

If this ayah addresses all Muslims (in the time before and after death of prophet) then the intuition is muhammad in his lifetime taught quran as he was the only one revealing it from Jabriel to the people and had knowledge to supply. And guided non Muslims to Islam by calling them. That is the relevance of the verses you cited.  You  cannot misconstrue  Wali and  mowla, they're two very different words and meanings,  these passages you cited do not have that.

 But after his death the quran itself  (We made it a light, guiding thereby whom We please of Our servants;) in its complete form was a sufficient book to give guidance absent the prophet.... 

 

:) Ar-Rehmaan, Allamal Qur'an, Khalaqal insaan..... 

Do you know any timeline when Allah (s.w.t) has made that "noor" for Prophet (S), and when Prophet (S) was appointed as a Prophet? We do have ahadith which mentions Prophet was a Prophet when Adam was in the process of creation. We have hadith-e-Noor and much more. 

The verses of Ar-Rehman, mention the teaching of Quran before the creation of insaan.

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46 minutes ago, wmehar2 said:

Muhammad completed reciting  revelation to us and then passes away but now we have the light, quran....the light of guidance for us.

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 2:
ذَٰلِكَ الْكِتَابُ لَا رَيْبَ فِيهِ هُدًى لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ

This Book, there is no doubt in it, is a guide to those who guard (against evil).
(English - Shakir)

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7 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

This verse is not mentioning all believers. Please look at the word "min ibadena" (مِنْ عِبَادِنَا) 

The verse is specifically talking about the Prophet & Ahlul Bayt and generally the chosen ones, the guided ones.

فَوَجَدَا عَبْدًا مِّنْ عِبَادِنَا آتَيْنَاهُ رَحْمَةً مِنْ عِندِنَا وَعَلَّمْنَاهُ مِن لَّدُنَّا عِلْمًا
18:65
إِنَّهُمَا مِنْ عِبَادِنَا الْمُؤْمِنِينَ
37:122
ضَرَبَ اللَّهُ مَثَلًا لِّلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا اِمْرَأَةَ نُوحٍ وَاِمْرَأَةَ لُوطٍ كَانَتَا تَحْتَ عَبْدَيْنِ مِنْ عِبَادِنَا صَالِحَيْنِ فَخَانَتَاهُمَا
66:10
 

:) Ar-Rehmaan, Allamal Qur'an, Khalaqal insaan..... 

Do you know any timeline when Allah (s.w.t) has made that "noor" for Prophet (S), and when Prophet (S) was appointed as a Prophet? We do have ahadith which mentions Prophet was a Prophet when Adam was in the process of creation. We have hadith-e-Noor and much more. 

The verses of Ar-Rehman, mention the teaching of Quran before the creation of insaan.

I dont think "servants" or أعيادنا  only refers to the prophets/Ahlul bayt.

Passages mix servants with ordinary people and prophets.

We even have passage telling us who servants are:

وَعِبَادُ الرَّحْمٰنِ الَّذِينَ يَمْشُونَ عَلَى الْأَرْضِ هَوْنًا وَإِذَا خَاطَبَهُمُ الْجٰهِلُونَ قَالُوا سَلٰمًا
"And the servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk upon the earth easily, and when the ignorant address them [harshly], they say [words of] peace,"
(QS. Al-Furqaan 25: Verse 63)

 

وَالَّذِينَ اجْتَنَبُوا الطّٰغُوتَ أَنْ يَعْبُدُوهَا وَأَنَابُوٓا إِلَى اللَّهِ لَهُمُ الْبُشْرٰى  ۚ  فَبَشِّرْ عِبَادِ
"But those who have avoided Taghut, lest they worship it, and turned back to Allah - for them are good tidings. So give good tidings to My servants"
 

الَّذِينَ يَسْتَمِعُونَ الْقَوْلَ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ أَحْسَنَهُۥٓ  ۚ  أُولٰٓئِكَ الَّذِينَ هَدٰىهُمُ اللَّهُ  ۖ  وَأُولٰٓئِكَ هُمْ أُولُوا الْأَلْبٰبِ
"Who listen to speech and follow the best of it. Those are the ones Allah has guided, and those are people of understanding."

(QS. Az-Zumar 39: Verse 17-18)

 

ثُمَّ أَوْرَثْنَا الْكِتٰبَ الَّذِينَ اصْطَفَيْنَا مِنْ عِبَادِنَا  ۖ  فَمِنْهُمْ ظَالِمٌ لِّنَفْسِهِۦ وَمِنْهُمْ مُّقْتَصِدٌ وَمِنْهُمْ سَابِقٌۢ بِالْخَيْرٰتِ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ  ۚ  ذٰلِكَ هُوَ الْفَضْلُ الْكَبِيرُ
"Then we caused to inherit the Book those We have chosen of Our servants; and among them is he who wrongs himself, and among them is he who is moderate, and among them is he who is foremost in good deeds by permission of Allah. That [inheritance] is what is the great bounty."
(QS. Faatir 35: Verse 32)

"Wrongs himself,  a servant "

Iblis was a servant wasn't he? Angels are referred to as servants... and status was such he was among them though a jinn.

Allah SWT said:

قُلْ يٰعِبَادِىَ الَّذِينَ أَسْرَفُوا عَلٰىٓ أَنْفُسِهِمْ لَا تَقْنَطُوا مِنْ رَّحْمَةِ اللَّهِ  ۚ  إِنَّ اللَّهَ يَغْفِرُ الذُّنُوبَ جَمِيعًا  ۚ  إِنَّهُۥ هُوَ الْغَفُورُ الرَّحِيمُ
"Say, O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful."
(QS. Az-Zumar 39: Verse 53)

Servants are infallible if they're prophet's and Ahlul Bayt, right?  Why transgress themsleves?

 

Edited by wmehar2

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4 hours ago, wmehar2 said:

I dont think "servants" or أعيادنا  only refers to the prophets/Ahlul bayt.

I was specifically talking about 42:52,

وَكَذَلِكَ أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ

This "elaika" is masculine sigular pronoun, then it is mentioning wahi. If the verse is addressing mankind or all believers there has to be "elaikum" but then again it is the book which is made available for all believers not the "ruhan min amrena". For the ruh, we have a very limited knowledge. Furthermore, you can look at the grammatical construction of verse.

Secondly, the phrase:

وَلَكِن جَعَلْنَاهُ نُورًا نَّهْدِي بِهِ مَنْ نَّشَاء مِنْ عِبَادِنَا

It is mentioning noor and some specific/chosen ones whom He intends to guide.

4 hours ago, wmehar2 said:

Passages mix servants with ordinary people and prophets.

Yes, everyone is "Abd" in a sense. But 42:52 is not mentioning all of them.

4 hours ago, wmehar2 said:



وَعِبَادُ الرَّحْمٰنِ الَّذِينَ يَمْشُونَ عَلَى الْأَرْضِ هَوْنًا وَإِذَا خَاطَبَهُمُ الْجٰهِلُونَ قَالُوا سَلٰمًا
"And the servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk upon the earth easily, and when the ignorant address them [harshly], they say [words of] peace,"
(QS. Al-Furqaan 25: Verse 63)

 

وَالَّذِينَ اجْتَنَبُوا الطّٰغُوتَ أَنْ يَعْبُدُوهَا وَأَنَابُوٓا إِلَى اللَّهِ لَهُمُ الْبُشْرٰى  ۚ  فَبَشِّرْ عِبَادِ
"But those who have avoided Taghut, lest they worship it, and turned back to Allah - for them are good tidings. So give good tidings to My servants"
 

الَّذِينَ يَسْتَمِعُونَ الْقَوْلَ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ أَحْسَنَهُۥٓ  ۚ  أُولٰٓئِكَ الَّذِينَ هَدٰىهُمُ اللَّهُ  ۖ  وَأُولٰٓئِكَ هُمْ أُولُوا الْأَلْبٰبِ
"Who listen to speech and follow the best of it. Those are the ones Allah has guided, and those are people of understanding."

(QS. Az-Zumar 39: Verse 17-18)

 

ثُمَّ أَوْرَثْنَا الْكِتٰبَ الَّذِينَ اصْطَفَيْنَا مِنْ عِبَادِنَا  ۖ  فَمِنْهُمْ ظَالِمٌ لِّنَفْسِهِۦ وَمِنْهُمْ مُّقْتَصِدٌ وَمِنْهُمْ سَابِقٌۢ بِالْخَيْرٰتِ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ  ۚ  ذٰلِكَ هُوَ الْفَضْلُ الْكَبِيرُ
"Then we caused to inherit the Book those We have chosen of Our servants; and among them is he who wrongs himself, and among them is he who is moderate, and among them is he who is foremost in good deeds by permission of Allah. That [inheritance] is what is the great bounty."
(QS. Faatir 35: Verse 32)

All of these verses quoted by you are either mentioning Ahlul Bayt (asws) or their shias. I wish if you have the time & interest to see ahadith of ma'someen (asws) explaining these verses.

Wassalam!

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13 hours ago, wmehar2 said:

In which case The line of logic is only Muhammad in his lifetime had quran as it was revealed to him.   The quran was guidance for Muhammad.   Therefore only through him could we get that guidance so..he guided us...as a will of Allah.  Muhammad completed reciting  revelation to us and then passes away but now we have the light, quran....the light of guidance for us.

Agree.

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On 12/9/2018 at 10:43 PM, Raheel Yunus said:

We are asking guidance from Allah and no one but Allah.

1:5-6 You Alone we worship, and You Alone we ask for help.
Guide us to the straight path.

Like YOU guided others, showed them the path and bestowed favours on them. Guide us on the same path.

كَانَ النَّاسُ أُمَّةً وَاحِدَةً فَبَعَثَ اللَّهُ النَّبِيِّينَ مُبَشِّرِينَ وَمُنْذِرِينَ وَأَنْزَلَ مَعَهُمُ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ لِيَحْكُمَ بَيْنَ النَّاسِ فِيمَا اخْتَلَفُوا فِيهِ ۚ وَمَا اخْتَلَفَ فِيهِ إِلَّا الَّذِينَ أُوتُوهُ مِنْ بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَتْهُمُ الْبَيِّنَاتُ بَغْيًا بَيْنَهُمْ ۖ فَهَدَى اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لِمَا اخْتَلَفُوا فِيهِ مِنَ الْحَقِّ بِإِذْنِهِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ يَهْدِي مَنْ يَشَاءُ إِلَىٰ صِرَاطٍ مُسْتَقِيمٍ

people are a single nation; so Allah raised prophets as bearers of good news and as warners, and He revealed with them the Book with truth, that it might judge between people in that in which they differed; and none but the very people who were given it differed about it after clear arguments had come to them, revolting among themselves; so Allah has guided by His will those who believe to the truth about which they differed and Allah guides whom He pleases to the right path.
Surah Al-Baqarah (2:213)

 

Edited by Raheel Yunus

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رُسُلًا مُبَشِّرِينَ وَمُنْذِرِينَ لِئَلَّا يَكُونَ لِلنَّاسِ عَلَى اللَّهِ حُجَّةٌ بَعْدَ الرُّسُلِ ۚ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ عَزِيزًا حَكِيمً

 messengers as the givers of good news and as warners, so that people should not have a plea against Allah after the (coming of) messengers; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
Surah An-Nisa' (4:165)

O followers of the Book! indeed Our Messenger has come to you explaining to you after a cessation of the messengers, lest you say: There came not to us a giver of good news or a warner, so indeed there has come to you a giver of good news and a warner; and Allah has power over all things.
Surah Al-Ma'idah (5:19)

وَمَا نُرْسِلُ الْمُرْسَلِينَ إِلَّا مُبَشِّرِينَ وَمُنْذِرِينَ ۖ فَمَنْ آمَنَ وَأَصْلَحَ فَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُون

And We send not messengers but as announcers of good news and givers of warning, then whoever believes and acts aright, they shall have no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Surah Al-An'am (6:48)

قُلْ لَا أَمْلِكُ لِنَفْسِي نَفْعًا وَلَا ضَرًّا إِلَّا مَا شَاءَ اللَّهُ ۚ وَلَوْ كُنْتُ أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ لَاسْتَكْثَرْتُ مِنَ الْخَيْرِ وَمَا مَسَّنِيَ السُّوءُ ۚ إِنْ أَنَا إِلَّا نَذِيرٌ وَبَشِيرٌ لِقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ

Say: I do not control any benefit or harm for my own soul except as Allah please; and had I known the unseen I would have had much of good and no evil would have touched me; I am nothing but a warner and the giver of good news to a people who believe.
Surah Al-A'raf (7:188)

 

إِنَّ هَٰذَا الْقُرْآنَ يَهْدِي لِلَّتِي هِيَ أَقْوَمُ وَيُبَشِّرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ الَّذِينَ يَعْمَلُونَ الصَّالِحَاتِ أَنَّ لَهُمْ أَجْرًا كَبِيرًا

Surely this Quran guides to that which is most upright and gives good news to the believers who do good that they shall have a great reward.
Surah Al-Isra' (17:9)

وَبِالْحَقِّ أَنْزَلْنَاهُ وَبِالْحَقِّ نَزَلَ ۗ وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ إِلَّا مُبَشِّرًا وَنَذِيرًا

And with truth have We revealed it, and with truth did it come; and We have not sent you but as the giver of good news and as a warner.
Surah Al-Isra' (17:105)

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