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Waseem162

Parents and freedom of the offspring

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Dear brothers and Sisters,

Do you think is it right that most of the parents don't allow their offspring to move out and marry someone of other country, other ethnicity, other culture, etc.

Why is it that most of the parents fear this?

As far as I know, Islam has bashed every kind of such barriers in establishing relationships. Because we all are ONE in the eyes of God. The only difference is the piety we hold.

For example: A person wants to move to a country X and wants to marry a girl living in that very country (Because he loves the culture of that country). He does so because he feels the girl who is brought up in that country will not find it hard to settle with him as compared to a girl who might be new to the culture of that country. 

 

Edited by Waseem162

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Well I think parents wish that their children live in the same country as them, I do kinda understand their concern.

But yeah, parents simply not wanting their children to be married off to someone of a different culture is just pure ignorance. 

Islamically we are allowed to reject our parents match if we feel that our future spouse may not be religious.

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It really is, it’s very much culture as well

And can be perceived as abandoment

children should be careful in not passing that line but also learning in being independent but also attentive to their loved ones 

it really is one of the great tests for children and their parents...

Edited by Ralvi

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Many parents have this line of thinking:

"I've spent all my life caring for this child, therefore I own them, and so they will serve me, marry who I want, and listen to all my commands, even though I am fully able to take care of myself and my partner. I am their mother (or father) and they are obliged to obey me or I will guilt-trip them to the end of my life, and die displeased with them."

It's unfortunate that parents can't look at it from the other side of the coin, for example, "I should sacrifice having my child around so that they can marry and complete half their religion, and inshallah be closer to Allah through that, even if that means putting myself at unease, for verily, the Prophet Ibrahim (a.s) was ready to sacrifice the life of his child for Allah, and Prophet Yacoub (a.s) was separated from his child for the sake of Allah. I too will sacrifice for the pleasure of Allah."

Too bad it never goes that way haha.

 

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@dragonxx that's a very nice way of putting it. And it applies to most scenarios. But I think when it comes to marriage and moving to a whole different country, that's a completely different ball game. 

I don't think I'd ever move countries for marriage. Maybe cities, but that's as far as I'd go. I guess it all depends on the individual's upbringing and how close knit their family is, and how comparable their parents are with them, personality-wise. But I believe we have a duty towards our parents. They raised us (many of us) with a good education and provided for us. They guided us to Islam and they provided care and nurture. I know that many parents would've also sacrificed their whole futures by leaving their own countries, their own families, their whole lives, to move to foreign countries among people who have nothing in common with them. That's admirable in my opinion. And whilst what I'm saying may be a generalisation, (not all parents are good) this applies to many people. If I met someone from a different country and told my parents I wanted to move there, I'd completely understand where they're coming from. I've seen how my own parents struggled with having their parents and families oceans away, I can't imagine how sad it would be for them to experience that all over again with their own children. 

That being said, it is a free country, and I can imagine how torn a couple would be in such a situation. It's pretty tough. Lol I hope I never end up wanting to marry someone from abroad. Too much hassle. 

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On 12/4/2018 at 7:35 PM, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Well I think parents wish that their children live in the same country as them, I do kinda understand their concern.

But yeah, parents simply not wanting their children to be married off to someone of a different culture is just pure ignorance. 

Islamically we are allowed to reject our parents match if we feel that our future spouse may not be religious.

Lol "pure ignorance" seems like a bit of a strong way to describe it. I guess these parents just want themselves and their children to stay in the comfort zone of their own cultures and traditions. What if their son's wife can't make him rotis? Lol.  But yeah, parents shouldn't be enforcing an all out ban for their kids from marrying into different cultures. 

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On 12/4/2018 at 5:55 PM, Waseem162 said:

Dear brothers and Sisters,

Do you think is it right that most of the parents don't allow their offspring to move out and marry someone of other country, other ethnicity, other culture, etc.

Why is it that most of the parents fear this?

As far as I know, Islam has bashed every kind of such barriers in establishing relationships. Because we all are ONE in the eyes of God. The only difference is the piety we hold.

For example: A person wants to move to a country X and wants to marry a girl living in that very country (Because he loves the culture of that country). He does so because he feels the girl who is brought up in that country will not find it hard to settle with him as compared to a girl who might be new to the culture of that country. 

 

So the question is why would a son think it is perfectly okay to abandon his parents and move to another country for a woman he is not related to?

Priorities!!!

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1 hour ago, 2Timeless said:

If I met someone from a different country and told my parents I wanted to move there, I'd completely understand where they're coming from. I've seen how my own parents struggled with having their parents and families oceans away, I can't imagine how sad it would be for them to experience that all over again with their own children. 

Totally agree with your post, including this. I just find it weird those parents who sacrificed so much, but when it comes to one extra sacrifice of one of their many children moving away for valid reasons, while they themselves are relatively young and healthy, suddenly it becomes more about control over love/sacrifice.

 

1 hour ago, ShiaMan14 said:

So the question is why would a son think it is perfectly okay to abandon his parents and move to another country for a woman he is not related to?

Sure, many cases you can call it abandonment, but what about sincere cases where a person really doesn't have many local options for jobs or married life? What if it was for a sincere mumin/mumina, a true Shia of Ahlulbayt (a.s), would that man/woman still not be worth it?

Even all that aside, even if the child were to abandon - that's his/her failure to uphold valuable principles, and possibly Islamic duties which will come back to bite him/her. The parents still shouldn't compromise on their principles/Islamic culture regardless of their child, and should try and support a genuine endeavour the child may have (job, marriage or whatever).

 

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1 hour ago, dragonxx said:

Sure, many cases you can call it abandonment, but what about sincere cases where a person really doesn't have many local options for jobs or married life? What if it was for a sincere mumin/mumina, a true Shia of Ahlulbayt (a.s), would that man/woman still not be worth it?

Even all that aside, even if the child were to abandon - that's his/her failure to uphold valuable principles, and possibly Islamic duties which will come back to bite him/her. The parents still shouldn't compromise on their principles/Islamic culture regardless of their child, and should try and support a genuine endeavour the child may have (job, marriage or whatever).

 

I was only commenting on the scenario presented by OP.

We could come up with a thousand legitimate reasons to leave our parents but the question still stands, should we? 

We should learn from the character of Owais Al-Qarni.

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23 hours ago, AStruggler said:

Lol "pure ignorance" seems like a bit of a strong way to describe it

Nah man our parents are falliable human beings, they can be ignorant just like we could. I meant that some parents may want the best for their children, but deep inside they have ignorance rooted in them. If parents say "our child must only marry a sayyid girl", deep down they are ignorant regardless of how much they love us.

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I'm 32 and still live with my mother, which my friends and coworkers (even my own sister occasionally) attempt to castigate and shame me for, saying that I am not an "adult" and that living with my (abandoned) mother (who was too heartbroken to ever remarry) makes me a "failure" and a "loser". I see it quite differently.

Since my mom never remarried, there is no man here to protect her or do the hard work around the home, fix things, etc. Granted as a child after my father decided he no longer wanted to be a father and husband because being a rock and roll musician was more important, my mother had a very hard time raising us, working full time, and managing the house that she paid for with her own money because my father refused to pay child support or alimony after he just up and left in 1995.

My mother is now 58 years old and has a weak back which she can throw out from merely exercising or working in her hobby garden. I had wanted to live alone, but I have the autism and it is difficult for me to hold down a job, manage money, and generally "function" as an American adult is "supposed to" by the social pressures of my country. So I haven't moved out and even if I did, I wouldn't move far away unless I could bring her close to where I moved.

I'm not saying she's dependent on me, but she shouldn't be alone without protection and since she is my mother and made many sacrifices for us as children, I feel that the absolute least I can do is stay with her and take care of the work around the home that is too difficult for her to physically perform even if I would like to live more independently and decorate my home by my tastes, feel like a real man, etc.

Just one more point of contention I have with American society: the shaming of people for living with their families after 18 (which the culture shames you for because it wants you to take on debt and thus, contribute more of a tax base that elites can use to terrorize innocent people across the ocean as well as enrich themselves with)

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3 hours ago, GD41586 said:

I'm 32 and still live with my mother, which my friends and coworkers (even my own sister occasionally) attempt to castigate and shame me for, saying that I am not an "adult" and that living with my (abandoned) mother (who was too heartbroken to ever remarry) makes me a "failure" and a "loser". I see it quite differently.

Since my mom never remarried, there is no man here to protect her or do the hard work around the home, fix things, etc. Granted as a child after my father decided he no longer wanted to be a father and husband because being a rock and roll musician was more important, my mother had a very hard time raising us, working full time, and managing the house that she paid for with her own money because my father refused to pay child support or alimony after he just up and left in 1995.

My mother is now 58 years old and has a weak back which she can throw out from merely exercising or working in her hobby garden. I had wanted to live alone, but I have the autism and it is difficult for me to hold down a job, manage money, and generally "function" as an American adult is "supposed to" by the social pressures of my country. So I haven't moved out and even if I did, I wouldn't move far away unless I could bring her close to where I moved.

I'm not saying she's dependent on me, but she shouldn't be alone without protection and since she is my mother and made many sacrifices for us as children, I feel that the absolute least I can do is stay with her and take care of the work around the home that is too difficult for her to physically perform even if I would like to live more independently and decorate my home by my tastes, feel like a real man, etc.

Just one more point of contention I have with American society: the shaming of people for living with their families after 18 (which the culture shames you for because it wants you to take on debt and thus, contribute more of a tax base that elites can use to terrorize innocent people across the ocean as well as enrich themselves with)

Salaam.

You are doing right by your mother. Don't listen to anyone else. 

May Allah increase your abilities to support her and your future wife+kids.

Edited by ShiaMan14

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I personally find the desire to marry in some particular culture and some particular country one of the most childish fascination.

Humans are same everywhere.

Parents are wiser so they want their children to have least challenges in a marriage. After all nobody wants to spend 30 minutes to explain one sentecen to each other. 

Besides those who are so fascinated to marry into another culture, what’s the guarantee that they would find the good people of that culture. They may encounter someone who is a bad sample from a assumed good culture. 

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On 12/8/2018 at 1:25 AM, shia farm girl said:

As-salaam-alaikum,

I know many people who left their mother country and their family  behind to start new lives. Many of them came for school and didn't intend to stay but ended up getting married and staying here. As they all age, the child that moved away as well as the parents that stayed in the mother country, their perspective on life and what is truly important to them changes.

Many times, after the excitement and distractions of life calm down and things become mundane, the children become more concerned about their parents who are very inconveniently residing far away. They may be sick and less able to take care of themselves or have other types of difficulties that plague older people..maybe they have lost their lifelong spouse along the way and are now alone.

 The parents, depending on how old they are, may feel or know they're nearing the end of their lives, so they become more and more wishful and desiring that that their child wasn't separated from them on the other side of the world. As children and even as young adults, we really have no idea what it's like to be an older (60s, 70s, 80s+) adult. We don't really truly understand what our parents are going through as older adults.

Yes, our parents should allow us freedoms in this world and not Guilt Trip us into making certain choices because they raised us, but, at the same time, we have to keep our Islamic duties in mind, that we're not supposed to abandon our parents, that wer r supposed to take care of them when they get older to whatever degree we possibly can. But it becomes extremely hard when you live on the other side of the world, and you are not able to visit them more than MAYBE once a year for a few weeks,IF you can afford it and your job allows you the time.

Many times, both sides end up living with guilt and feelings of loss and regret for the situations that evolve from such types of choices in life. I guess it's neither right or wrong, it's just looking at the reality of the situation, that as young people, we don't see the world or our relationships or what's important the same way  we do when we mature and get older.

This is something i realized from my own trials and lessons surrounding my own parents, their aging and their sicknesses , but also from seeing the current state almost all of the people i know are involved in.

 Alhamdulilah, i am still with my family, but it pains my husband dearly as his mother is still in Iran, in her 80s, and she lost her spouse 2 years ago, so she lives alone. Shes set in her ways as most 80 year olds are, so she doesnt want another non related person living with her, a caretaker, for example, and alhamdulilah its not necessary. My husband speaks to her AT LEAST once a week, sometimes more, but it hurts him AND her for them to be separated, especially at this time of their lives.

I dont personally think the separation of child and parent is the way things SHOULD be, its just that unfortunately, it is one of the ways of this world, and in many cases, it is inescapable for many people. 

I think back to the days where many family members across generations and including in laws, would reside on giant farms and not far from  extended family, like within the same village, town or city, at LEAST within the same state, but sometimes even that can be difficult, especially if money and time are not available to travel...sigh... such is the way of this dunya with all its difficulties,sadness, regret, and lonliness:(

W/s

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum

This is my story.  I try my best to tell them to come and stay with us, but they are more comfortable to be in their own home.

I can't afford to travel with my children and see them and stay a few months.  It is very expensive.  

I have family members who offered to pay for the tickets, but it is a financial burden and I don't want anyone to be in debt because of us.

I'm able to call them and speak with them on video.  I hope they do change their minds and come and stay with us.  I want to serve my parents as they have aged, but I can't just leave my children and go take care of them.

Sub7an'Allah I understand what your husband is going through, I guess this is the bala2 (trial) we are facing together and so many other Muslims are experiencing as well.

@GD41586

God bless you for helping your mother.  You are serving your mother, and that is very honorable to God.  Don't listen to the noise, they are consumed in the love of this dunya.  They have no idea how noble, caring, and important it is to care for elderly parents.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

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