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In the Name of God بسم الله

Feminine vs Masculine

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Salam,

I know a lot of guys are insecure or obsessed about "being a man" -well nothing wrong with it or anything.

But, do girls really care about being feminine? Like do you actually try to appear more feminine? 

Or put it this way, if someone said that you act a bit like a man, would you be offended?

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans
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18 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

But, do girls really care about being feminine? Like do you actually try to appear more feminine? 

Take a look at almost all the advertisements for female clothing. It all revolves around a woman's curves and her femininity. It's only quite recently when the objectification (in certain ways) of women has been shunned down, and women are being advertised in less domestic roles which may also be seen to compromise her femininity. 

18 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Or put it this way, if someone said that you act a bit like a man, would you be offended?

Once a female (the irony) member on here generalised a whole nation of women to be men in women's bodies. I found this extremely offensive and it only spoke to her character anyway, but most of the male members didn't really understand why I found her saying that so offensive. I found that ironic because the same men, if you questioned their masculinity, they'd have gone crazy. I think men don't think that women value their femininity as much as they value their masculinity. I don't know really. It may be because men generally have bigger but more fragile egos (no offence, just my opinion). 

Also, I think Muslim women may have a harder time embracing this femininity, because the dress code doesn't allow for it anyway, which may explain why some women may not care if anyone insulted their femininity. 

Edited by 2Timeless
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Salam, some people has made a lie about me that i am some how in favor of male and against female. i do not know how, where and why they come up with that nonsense. i myself a female when i say things i say humans. When I take side about a situation or someone i take side with the truth and not based on gender.

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Everything I can think of that has been called or could be called "masculine" about me is just either motherly or childlike. 

However, especially parents need to avoid such nonsense. I have a non-Muslim friend, a housemate from university, who was constantly told by her parents from a young age that her interest in sports and outdoor activities and her lack of interest in fashion and gossip must mean that she is gay. Eventually she began to believe them. She later told me that she had questioned her feminity since she was a young teenager, but she didn't decide that her parents must be right, that she must be gay, until she was in her mid to late twenties. 

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4 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

But, do girls really care about being feminine? Like do you actually try to appear more feminine? 

Wa alaikum salam. I wish I tried harder to appear more feminine. But it seems like so much work and I'm lazy in that regard. But I admire when other women care about and express their femininity. 

4 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Or put it this way, if someone said that you act a bit like a man, would you be offended?

Depends on what they are referring to. If they are talking about the fact that I'm not overly emotional or talkative, I wouldn't be offended. But in some other regards I'd probably be offended. 

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2 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

Also, I think Muslim women may have a harder time embracing this femininity, because the dress code doesn't allow for it anyway, 

What? This is so untrue! Is it only feminine to appear sleazy? 

Best compliment I ever got came from a three or four year old little boy in my son's day care. The child touched my scarf and said "I like your clothes. You always look like a princess. I wish my mom dressed like you." And the other nearby children agreed. It was heartwarming. Hijab is feminity. 

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13 minutes ago, notme said:

What? This is so untrue! Is it only feminine to appear sleazy? 

That is clearly not what I meant. 

Let's construe the meaning of "femininity". Traditionally, and even in today's day and age, femininity is associated with accentuating and highlighting female features - curves. Does hijab allow for that? No. Our dress code doesn't allow us to wear revealing clothes that show off our feminine physical attributes. Curves don't make you sleazy. It just depends on where you reveal them. So, yes, according to Islam, we are the epitome of femininity, but according to most of our countries we are not. Again, that doesn't make hijabis un-feminine per se, it just means that we don't get a chance to express our femininity to the whole world, which makes it more easily questionable. 

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Oh, so we're only talking about animalistic aspects femininity. Sorry, my mistake. 

I was including socio-cultural femininity; you know, the expectation that ladies will be elegant, dignified, nurturing, and calm.

In my experience, little children think the the epitome femininity is a storybook queen or princess, and those, at least traditionally, have not been drawn in clothing that shows curves. Disney has changed that a bit. Maybe younger folks never experience non-sexualized femininity.

Edited by notme
Typo.
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In any event, if anyone ever called me masculine, I would laugh at them, and ask if they would call a mother bear masculine. I've never been "a girly girl", but, well to be honest I think our society requires women be vastly superior men, so I think I'm far above what our culture considers "masculine". 

Edited by notme
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Lol, so female bodies are now "animalistic"?? Interesting. Though, not all women view their bodies that way. 

Socio-cultural femininity (or even masculinity) is subjective to the society one lives in. So, being elegant and dignified may not have the same definition in every single culture in the whole world, naturally. 

Okay, so femininity is then being a passive damsel in distress waiting for her knight in shining armour to save her from the evil villain ruining her oh-so-sorrowful life? Again, not all women view femininity that way. And, actually, these beloved Disney figures are quite sexist and animalistic in their own right -  tiny waistline, long legs, long beautiful hair etc. 

I'd made it pretty clear I was talking about the physical (in no way animalistic) manifestation of femininity, because, yes, femininity is both physical and mental / characteristic. If only people would actually make solid arguments referring to the actual points being made, and not just disagreeing for the sake of it. 

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السَّلآمُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ الله وبَرَكآتُه 

Respected brother 

Hope you are fine إِنْ شَاء َ اللَّه 

It is very pleasing to eyes to see thin females, soft, very delicate features, like fairies, with low tone while talking, Wow, Very beautiful creature of Allah, Females. 

مَا شَآءَ اللّٰهُۙ لَا قُوَّةَ اِلَّا بِاللّٰهِ‌ۚ 

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8 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

Lol, so female bodies are now "animalistic"??

Yes, but not only female bodies. What makes humans different from the other animals? It isn't our physical form, or people with disabilities would be less human. They aren't. 

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13 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

Socio-cultural femininity (or even masculinity) is subjective to the society one lives in. So, being elegant and dignified may not have the same definition in every single culture in the whole world, naturally. 

Okay, so femininity is then being a passive damsel in distress waiting for her knight in shining armour to save her from the evil villain ruining her oh-so-sorrowful life? Again, not all women view femininity that way. And, actually, these beloved Disney figures are quite sexist and animalistic in their own right -  tiny waistline, long legs, long beautiful hair etc. 

I'd made it pretty clear I was talking about the physical (in no way animalistic) manifestation of femininity, because, yes, femininity is both physical and mental / characteristic. If only people would actually make solid arguments referring to the actual points being made, and not just disagreeing for the sake of it. 

@notme this was addressed to you, it would be appreciated if you cleared up some of the questions I had for you.

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7 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

Socio-cultural femininity (or even masculinity) is subjective to the society one lives in. So, being elegant and dignified may not have the same definition in every single culture in the whole world, naturally. 

Yes, I agree.

7 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

Okay, so femininity is then being a passive damsel in distress waiting for her knight in shining armour to save her from the evil villain ruining her oh-so-sorrowful life? Again, not all women view femininity that way. And, actually, these beloved Disney figures are quite sexist and animalistic in their own right -  tiny waistline, long legs, long beautiful hair etc. 

Some people might still define femininity as being passive, but I think that's outdated and only ever applied to aristocracy anyway. And yes, I already said that Disney female characters have sexualized femininity. 

7 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

I'd made it pretty clear I was talking about the physical (in no way animalistic) manifestation of femininity, because, yes, femininity is both physical and mental / characteristic. If only people would actually make solid arguments referring to the actual points being made, and not just disagreeing for the sake of it.

I don't understand this accusation. My point has been all along that there is more to femininity than the physical, not that the physical doesn't exist. 

7 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

 

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8 minutes ago, Ruqaya101 said:

could you please clarify what youre trying to say?

I'm saying our bodies are animals. It is our souls which make us human. To call bodies and things related to bodies animalistic is not absurd. 

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10 minutes ago, 2Timeless said:

@notme this was addressed to you, it would be appreciated if you cleared up some of the questions I had for you.

:) Give me a minute please. I'm over here doing some very feminine child raising while attempting to browse shiachat! 

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14 minutes ago, notme said:

Yes, I agree.

Some people might still define femininity as being passive, but I think that's outdated and only ever applied to aristocracy anyway. And yes, I already said that Disney female characters have sexualized femininity. 

I don't understand this accusation. My point has been all along that there is more to femininity than the physical, not that the physical doesn't exist. 

lol okay, i agree with what you're saying too. What are we disagreeing about?

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14 minutes ago, notme said:

I'm saying our bodies are animals. It is our souls which make us human. To call bodies and things related to bodies animalistic is not absurd. 

I think there is a difference in the concept of the term "animalistic".  

The word, animalistic, can imply instinctive and impulsive - primitive traits that are not associated with development and progression through reflection and purpose.

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15 minutes ago, Maryaam said:

I think there is a difference in the concept of the term "animalistic".  

The word, animalistic, can imply instinctive and impulsive - primitive traits that are not associated with development and progression through reflection and purpose.

True. Thanks.

What I meant is "related to the animal aspect the human". I understand how that would be misunderstood. Is there a better word I should have used? 

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Allah made women so men don't feel alone in this world and have a partner so I am sure women have to appear pleasing in the first place to men and in regards to man's appearance who cares....hahahha just joking females dont get angry

Men should also perform their duties towards their women

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6 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Salam,

I know a lot of guys are insecure or obsessed about "being a man" -well nothing wrong with it or anything.

But, do girls really care about being feminine? Like do you actually try to appear more feminine? 

Or put it this way, if someone said that you act a bit like a man, would you be offended?

If women worried about this, you would not see them in the work force - especially in trained and professional positions.   In general, women have more self confidence than men when their gender attributes are questioned - woman also have insecurities, but not usually about their femininity. 

The obsession with always having to "be a man" would be a tremendous burden. This burden, in my experience, is pushed by men. Some kind of competitive stuff to develop a male hierarchy?  

In contrast, I find being feminine is a huge advantage - especially in the workplace.  I don't have any societal pressure to be the Alpha in the room, can sit back and view the situation holistically and with less pressure, don't have to yell to be heard - can use an inside voice, have gender attributes of perspective and patience and am more likely to look like the sane one in a team disagreement.  It is all good!

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42 minutes ago, notme said:

True. Thanks.

What I meant is "related to the animal aspect the human". I understand how that would be misunderstood. Is there a better word I should have used? 

Wellll.... to begin with if we are getting into word usage here.....  :verryhappy:

I would not use the word "should" on yourself; the word "could" is better as it does not in any way judge or denigrate. I went to a workshop once where we were told to avoid "should-ing" on ourselves and also to avoid "should-ing" on others.  :cryhappy:

Hmmm...   But back to the original question......Maybe the word "biological".  As it does not imply behaviour... ?

Edited by Maryaam
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5 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Salam,

I know a lot of guys are insecure or obsessed about "being a man" -well nothing wrong with it or anything.

But, do girls really care about being feminine? Like do you actually try to appear more feminine? 

Or put it this way, if someone said that you act a bit like a man, would you be offended?

I think it is natural for certain girls to be attracted to masculine men. Its a natural reaction. I think Allah created everything for a purpose. There is an audience for everyone. 

Edited by Murtaza1
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2 hours ago, Asghar Ali Karbalai said:

السَّلآمُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ الله وبَرَكآتُه 

Respected brother 

Hope you are fine إِنْ شَاء َ اللَّه 

It is very pleasing to eyes to see thin females, soft, very delicate features, like fairies, with low tone while talking, Wow, Very beautiful creature of Allah, Females. 

مَا شَآءَ اللّٰهُۙ لَا قُوَّةَ اِلَّا بِاللّٰهِ‌ۚ 

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum

512. Question: What is the meaning of the statement from the hadith that “the first glance is [permissible] for you, but the second one will [be held] against you”? Is it permissible to prolong the first glance while looking at a woman on the basis, as claimed by some, that it is still “the first permissible glance”?

Answer: Apparently the meaning of the statement mentioned above is to differentiate between the two glances in the sense that the first was just an accidental and a passing one, and so it is considered guiltless since no lustful desires were involved in it, as opposed to the second glance which was naturally intentional and accompanied with an element of desire, and therefore is detrimental. It is because of this that a statement has been quoted by Imam as-Sadiq (a.s.) in which he says, “The glance after the [first] one creates in the heart the desire and that is sufficient as a temptation for the person.”

It is, however, clear that the statement quoted in the question does not intend to define the permissible glance on the basis of numbers, in the sense that the first glance is permissible, even if it is intentional and guileful from the very beginning. Or that it becomes such, if it is prolonged and more persistant because the on-looker cannot control it by casting his glance away from the woman that he is looking at. Nor does it mean that the second glance is forbidden, even if it is for a single moment without any lust at all.

513. Question: While discussing the issue of looking at a woman, many expressions are used that are not clearly defined for most people. So, what is the meaning of “ar-rayba, at-taladh-dhudh, and ash-shahwa”?

Answer: At-Taladh-dhudh and ash-shahwa mean lustful and sexual desire, not just any lust or any desire that is part of the human instinct that appears when one sees beautiful scenes.

Ar-rayba means the fear of temptation or the falling into haram.

514. Question: What is the limit of forbidden lust?

Answer: Its minimum limit —if what is meant is the ranking order— i.e. it is the first stage of sexual arousal.

https://www.al-islam.org/es/node/12252

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7 hours ago, Asghar Ali Karbalai said:

السَّلآمُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ الله وبَرَكآتُه 

Respected brother 

Hope you are fine إِنْ شَاء َ اللَّه 

It is very pleasing to eyes to see thin females, soft, very delicate features, like fairies, with low tone while talking, Wow, Very beautiful creature of Allah, Females. 

مَا شَآءَ اللّٰهُۙ لَا قُوَّةَ اِلَّا بِاللّٰهِ‌ۚ 

Its funny because I feel blessed but embarrassed to be a man when I see the beauty Allah has created in women compared to us men. Women seem perfect. I guess they get their own juice by looking at our masculine and rigid features, like a binary effect process between men and women. I think women's features are also pleasing to look at because their features are symmetrical. I always try to maintain my level of required hijab of course but sometimes it slips. 

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السَّلآمُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ الله وبَرَكآتُه 

Respected brother @Murtaza1

At least you are accepting the fact that sometimes it slips most do not accept it men and women.

'To err is human: to forgive, divine'

Sometims you see so beautiful female that it makes you very happy from inside and you try to avoid looking at her but you fail....This happens with me at times and I accept it. It is very admirable.

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9 minutes ago, Murtaza1 said:

@Asghar Ali Karbalai it is very difficult to achieve this perfect act without ever having slipped the gaze. I am not saying that its not possible but non of us seem so perfect enough. I would love to meet anybody who has never ever slipped their gaze

Perfect are only Prophet Mohammad(saww) and Aal(asws) e Mohammad(saww).

Impossible to achieve perfection in anything.

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4 hours ago, Murtaza1 said:

@Asghar Ali Karbalai it is very difficult to achieve this perfect act without ever having slipped the gaze. I am not saying that its not possible but non of us seem so perfect enough. I would love to meet anybody who has never ever slipped their gaze

So when you are gaze slipped? do you think bad or good? what do you think? for example when i see something or some one accidently i do not think anything, my mind brain is just empty for me seeing someone is seeing like an object nothing comes just an empty accidental look. i have been like this my entire life. I find animals very cute and beautiful. when i look at their eyes i find innocent. i just love animals alot although i am scared of some of them.  do you think some under cover police/fbi take my this writing in a wrong way? 

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30 minutes ago, Murtaza1 said:

I would love to meet anybody who has never ever slipped their gaze

It's not about not letting your gaze slip. It's about ensuring that it's not lustful, and if it is, you look away immediately, and repent for having haram thoughts, (if you have any).

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