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Urwatul Wuthqa

بِحَبْلٍ مِّنْ اللّهِ وَحَبْلٍ مِّنَ النَّاسِ

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:bismillah:

What is the difference between "Hablin min Allah" (Rope from Allah) and "Hablin min an-naas" (Rope from people)? 

ضُرِبَتْ عَلَيْهِمُ الذِّلَّةُ أَيْنَ مَا ثُقِفُواْ إِلاَّ بِحَبْلٍ مِّنْ اللّهِ وَحَبْلٍ مِّنَ النَّاسِ 
3:112

وَاعْتَصِمُواْ بِحَبْلِ اللّهِ جَمِيعًا وَلاَ تَفَرَّقُواْ
3:103

And does the Hablillah mentioned in 3:103 comprised of rope from Allah (s.w.t) and rope from people, making it one thing? Does it mentions two ends of rope one being with Allah while other among people? Or are they both two different things?

@Qa'im, @skyweb1987, @Sumerian 

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6 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

What is the difference between "Hablin min Allah" (Rope from Allah) and "Hablin min an-naas" (Rope from people)? 

To know this we might want to know the meaning in each particular case. After we know the meaning of A and of B then we can compare / look for the difference (more easily), right. 

Thanks for the question

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51 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

And does the Hablillah mentioned in 3:103 comprised of rope from Allah (s.w.t) and rope from people, making it one thing? Does it mentions two ends of rope one being with Allah while other among people? Or are they both two different things?

@Qa'im, @skyweb1987, @Sumerian 

From Al-Mezan (Tabatabi) for habillliah (3:103):

Ibn Abī Shaybah narrates from Abū Shurayh al-Khuzā‘ī that he said:
‘‘The Messenger of Allāh (s.a.w.a.) said: ‘Surely this Qur’ān is a rope, one end of which is in the hand of Allāh, and the other end is in your hands; therefore hold fast to it; because you shall never slip nor will you ever go astray after (holding fast to) it.’ ’’ (ibid.)

as-Sajjād (a.s.) said, inter alia, in a hadīth: ‘‘And the cord of Allāh —it is the Qur’ān.’’ (Ma‘āni ’l-akhbār)

al-Bāqir (a.s.) said: ‘‘The progeny of Muhammad, they are the cord of Allāh which He has ordered (the believers) to hold fast to; so He has said: And hold fast by the cord of Allāh all together and be not divided.’’ (at-Tafsīr, al-‘Ayyāshī)

The author says: There are other traditions of the same meaning; they are supported by what has been written in the Commentary; also other traditions given below, support it.at-Tabarānī has narrated from Zayd ibn Arqam that he said: ‘‘The Messenger of Allāh (s.a.w.a.), said: ‘Surely, I am to depart from you; and surely you are to come to me near the ‘hawd’ ( اَلْحَوْضُ = reservoir, i.e., of ‘al-Kawthar’ = اَلْكَوْثَرُ ). Therefore be careful how you follow me about the two weighty things.’ He was asked: ‘And what are the two weighty things? O Messenger of Allāh!’ He said: ‘The greater one is the Book of Allāh, the Mighty, the Great, (it is) a rope one end of which is in the hand of Allāh and (another) end is in your hands; therefore hold fast to it, you shall never slip up nor will you ever go astray. And the smaller one is my progeny. And surely they will never separate from each other until they reach me near the water reservoir; and I have asked for them this (especiality) from my Lord; therefore do not precede them lest you be destroyed; and do not (try to) teach them because they are more knowledgeable than you .’ ’’ (ad-Durru ’l-manthūr)

Ibn Mājah, Ibn Jarīr and Ibn Abī Hātim have narrated from Anas that he said: ‘‘The Messenger of Allāh (s.a.w.a.) said: ‘The Children of Israel became divided into seventy-one sects, and surely my ummah will soon be divided into seventy-three sects — all of them shall be in the fire except one.’ They said: ‘O Messenger of Allāh! and who is this one?’ He said: ‘The party.’ Then he recited: And hold fast to the cord of Allāh all together.’ ’’ (ibid.)

Edited by skyweb1987

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39 minutes ago, Mohammed-Mehdi said:

After we know the meaning of A and of B then we can compare / look for the difference (more easily), right. 

وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِحَبْلِ اللَّهِ جَمِيعًا وَلَا تَفَرَّقُوا

[Shakir 3:103] And hold fast by the covenant of Allah all together and be not disunited,
[Pickthal 3:103] And hold fast, all of you together, to the cable of Allah, and do not separate.
[Yusufali 3:103] And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves;

ضُرِبَتْ عَلَيْهِمُ الذِّلَّةُ أَيْنَ مَا ثُقِفُوا إِلَّا بِحَبْلٍ مِنَ اللَّهِ وَحَبْلٍ مِنَ النَّاسِ

[Shakir 3:112] Abasement is made to cleave to them wherever they are found, except under a covenant with Allah and a covenant with men,
[Pickthal 3:112] Ignominy shall be their portion wheresoever they are found save (where they grasp) a rope from Allah and a rope from men. 
[Yusufali 3:112] Shame is pitched over them (Like a tent) wherever they are found, except when under a covenant (of protection) from Allah and from men;

I think you have the translations now. 

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6 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

From Al-Mezan (Tabatabi) for habillliah (3:103):

Brother, please quote the tafseer of 3:112 also so that I can view how Ayatullah Tabatabai has explained the term "Hablin min an-naas". 

Edited by Salsabeel
3:112 corrected

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12 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Brother, please quote the tafseer of 3:112 also so that I can view how Ayatullah Tabatabai has explained the term "Hablin min an-naas". 

From Almezan (Tabatabai) for 3:112:

Abasement is brought down upon them wherever they are found, except under a protection from Allāh and a protection from men, and they have become settled in
wrath from Allāh, and humiliation is stamped upon therm; this is because they used to disbelieve in the signs of Allāh and slew the prophets unjustly; this is because they disobeyed and used to exceed the limits (112).

al-habl’ ( ( اَلْحَبْلُ literally means rope or cord which provides protection to one who holds fast to it; it is metaphorically used to everything that provides a kind of safety, security and protection, e.g., a covenant, guarantee or amnesty. The meaning is as follows — and Allāh knows better: Abasement is stamped on them as a design is stamped on a coin, or it encompasses them as a tent encompasses a man. Anyhow, they are either branded with, or overwhelmed by abasement and humiliation — except when they get a protection or guarantee from Allāh and a protection or guarantee from men.
The word ‘‘protection’’ is repeated when referring to Allāh and then to men, because the connotation differs from one place to the other. Protection given by Allāh is His decree and command, either creative or legislative; and that provided by men is their decision and action.

Abasement is stamped on them; it means that Allāh has ordained a law affirming their abasement. This meaning is supported by the proviso‘‘wherever they are found’’. Obviously, it means that wherever the believers find them and subjugate them; this proviso is obviously more appropriate to legislative abasement, one of whose effects is the imposition of jizyah.

Edited by skyweb1987
correction

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3 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

Abasement is brought down upon them wherever they are found, except under a protection from Allāh and a protection from men, and they have become settled in
wrath from Allāh,

Ok, So he has considered a different meaning of Habl here. :)

6 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

security and protection, e.g., a covenant, guarantee or amnesty.

Understood, many thanks brother!!! 

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A person debating with me saying that this "hablin min an-naas" cancels out the shia claim of chosen ones and ulil amr can be anyone and can be selected by people. I presented before him few verses mentioning the chosen ones so he satisfied with my answer. But I kept this verse noted for viewing what does here habl means. 

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2 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

A person debating with me saying that this "hablin min an-naas" cancels out the shia claim of chosen ones and ulil amr can be anyone and can be selected by people. I presented before him few verses mentioning the chosen ones so he satisfied with my answer. But I kept this verse noted for viewing what does here habl means. 

A rope from Allah is Quran and a rope from people is 'Moula Ali(asws)'. Your friend took 'Naas' too literally that's why it is said to read Quran slowly slowly and with understanding.

Many ayahs support this ayah and are interlinked to this ayah 'hablin min an-naas'.

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1 minute ago, Asghar Ali Karbalai said:

A rope from Allah is Quran and a rope from people is 'Moula Ali(asws)'. Your friend took 'Naas' too literally that's why it is said to read Quran slowly slowly and with understanding.

Many ayahs support this ayah and are interlinked to this ayah 'hablin min an-naas'.

Like for example the ayah 

"Ati`oollah wa Ati`oo 'r-Rasoola wa Ooli 'l-Amri Minkum"

And from the last sermon by Prophet(saww)

O people I am leaving among you two thing, one is the rope of Quran and one is the rope of my Ahlul Bayt(asws) those who will hold firmly to both the ropes, I will guarantee Jannah for them.

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3 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

A person debating with me saying that this "hablin min an-naas" cancels out the shia claim of chosen ones and ulil amr can be anyone and can be selected by people. I presented before him few verses mentioning the chosen ones so he satisfied with my answer. But I kept this verse noted for viewing what does here habl means. 

For us in this regard these verses are sufficient to reject such claims without going in much detail:

إِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا الَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ وَهُمْ رَاكِعُونَ(5:55)

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنكُمْ ۖ(4:59) 

وَمَن يَتَوَلَّ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا فَإِنَّ حِزْبَ اللَّهِ هُمُ الْغَالِبُونَ(5:56)

Allah swt, The prophet saaw and Wali who is Ulil-amr chosen one by the verse of quran

wasalam

Edited by skyweb1987

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Salam Aleykoom

Indeed, @skyweb1987 is entirely correct in his quotes of the tafseer of verses 3:103 and 3:112. Let me provide you with an alternative source to confirm what has already been said about the "Rope of Allah":

Quote

On verse 103: “And hold fast by the rope of Allah all together and do not separate”
Ibne Abbas (ra) narrates: “One day I was with Rasool Allah (saw) when a man came and asked Rasool Allah (saw) regarding this ayah. The man asked, “Who is the rope of Allah?” RasoolAllah (saw) replied, “I am the Prophet of Allah and Ali (asws) is the rope of Allah.” The man left saying, “I believe in the Prophet of Allah and hold fast to His Rope”.
(Tafseer e Furat pg 14)

Quote

On verse 112: “Abasement shall be their portion wheresoever they are found except where they grasp a rope from Allah and a rope from men”
Aban bin Taghlab narrates “I asked Imam Jafar Sadiq (asws) regarding this saying of Allah. Imam (asws) said: “The rope from Allah is His Book and the rope from amongst the people is Ali (asws) ibn Abi Talib (as)”.
(Tafsir e Furat pg 14)

There are other narrations corroborating those ahadith in the following document: http://www.wilayatmission.org/EngBooks/Tafseer.pdf .

Wa Salam

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