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In the Name of God بسم الله
Guest abduzahra

waseelah of mary and jesus

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7 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Abul Fadl means father of a son named Fadl who was martyred in Karbala. It means Abbas (عليه السلام) has a son, who is the son of Prophet Isa (عليه السلام)? 

See the flip flop.

First you were trying to portray that as a fazeelat like Abu turab. When caught out so badly you now flip flop and either write what you wrote above in confusion or are  equating or bringing at par Isa(عليه السلام) and Abbas(عليه السلام)

Edited by haideriam

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In all seriousness, I am mind boggled that someone is trying to defend this notion that Hz Abbas is in the same league as Hz Isa. Next we will have someone say Zuljinah is greater than Hz Isa.

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3 minutes ago, haideriam said:

so you have this unique superior thought to the more learned ones who are Shia. 

So what madhab is this brother.?

Shiachat is always famous for unique thoughts, there are many who challenge the work of "more learned" Shia. 

I don’t really need to tell my madhab, you already figured it out, hero worshipping, 

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1 minute ago, 786:) said:

In all seriousness, I am mind boggled that someone is trying to defend this notion that Hz Abbas is in the same league as Hz Isa. Next we will have someone say Zuljinah is greater than Hz Isa.

Just give it time, this is next and onto hinduism of worshipping the horse.

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1 minute ago, haideriam said:

Just give it time, this is next and onto hinduism of worshipping the horse.

They already worship the horse in some parts of the world and sadly it is played off as waseelah to justify it.

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3 minutes ago, haideriam said:

Just give it time, this is next and onto hinduism of worshipping the horse.

Yes you two are the genuine believers, be happy with your emaan. May Almighty Lord increase your emaan

I am a very happy horse worshipper or hero or alam worshipper or Abbas or Ali (or name any one else) worshipper. 

May Almighty Lord grasp/make accountable you two on the day of judgement. I will be standing as victim and will put my case to Him (In-sha Allah)  

Edited by Salsabeel

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1 minute ago, Salsabeel said:

Yes you two are the genuine believers, be happy with your emaan. May Almighty Lord increase your emaan

No. I am a sinner like everyone here. May Allah forgive us all iA.

Your argument just doesnt have any basis. Like I said earlier, it is simply emotions and attachment to the figure.

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2 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Yes you two are the genuine believers, be happy with your emaan. May Almighty Lord increase your emaan

I am a very happy horse worshipper or hero or alam worshipper or Abbas or Ali (or name any one else) worshipper. 

May Almighty Lord grasp you two on the day of judgement. I will be standing as victim and will put my case to Him (In-sha Allah)  

May Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) grasp the one who is spreading false self projected thought not of Shia madhab. 

May Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) grasp the fitna monger amongst us. 

Aameen

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29 minutes ago, 786:) said:

No. I am a sinner like everyone here. May Allah forgive us all iA.

Your argument just doesnt have any basis. Like I said earlier, it is simply emotions and attachment to the figure.

equates to Qiyas which is Haram.

Edited by haideriam

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Time to permanently fix these tongues:

"Shaheed Thalith Allamah Nurullah Shustari writes: "He was one of the greatest companions and is reckoned among the foremost of the companions who embraced Islam. In embracing Islam his number was third, that is, he embraced Islam after Mother of the Faithful Khadijahtul Kubra and Commander of the Faithful Ali. According to the author of "Isti'ab" he was distinguished in knowledge, austerity, piety and truthfulness, among all the companions. Ali has said that Abu Dharr achieved that position in the acquisition and comprehension of religious learnings which nobody else could reach. The Holy Prophet used to say, "Abu Dharr is like Prophet Isa in my ummah. Abu Dharr possesses the same austerity as Prophet Isa had".
 
According to a tradition one who wants to see the modesty of Prophet Isa should see Abu Dharr. Shaykh Saduq in his book “Uyunul Akhbar ar-Ridha” writes that Imam Ali ar-Ridha (a) has said from the authority of his forefathers that according to the hadith of the Holy Prophet, "Abu Dharr is the truthful person of this ummah".
 
Ali says that Abu Dharr is the only person who will never care for any reproaches about Allah and His orders and commands, that is, he will say whatever is right and will act upon it, and will neither care for any threats in this connection, nor will he be over-awed by the power of the government.
 
Scholars have written that Abu Dharr had sworn allegiance to the Prophet (s) with the promise that in the faith of Allah he would not care for any reproacher and that he would speak out the truth howmuchsoever bitter it might be.
 
Truthfulness and courage is a quality which even the greatest personalities do not hold fast. The Holy Prophet (s) has prophesied this quality of Abu Dharr and said that Abu Dharr would perform a great role in this matter and will remain steadfast even in the face of severe persecution which he had to bear.
 
The Prophet said: "There is nobody more truthful than Abu Dharr between the canopy of the sky and the carpet of the Earth".1
 
In the elucidation of this hadith Allamah Subaiti writes: “The Holy Prophet addressing his companions said, "O my companions! Who is one out of you who will meet me on the Day of Reckoning in the same condition in which I leave him in the world?” On hearing this everyone kept quiet, except Abu Dharr who spoke that it was he. The Holy Prophet said, "No doubt! You are true". After that he added, "O my companions! Remember what I am telling you. There is no man between the Earth and the sky more truthful than Abu Dharr".2
 
Allamah Majlisi has written some narratives after having quoted the above mentioned tradition in his book Hayat ul-Qulub.
 
Ibn Babwayh has narrated on reliable authority that somebody asked Imam al-Sadiq if Abu Dharr was better than the Ahlul Bayt of the Holy Prophet or otherwise. The Imam said, "How many months are there in a year?" He answered, "Twelve". The Imam said, "How many of these months are respectable and sanctified?"

He said, "Four months? The Imam asked, "Is Ramadhan also included in those four months?" He said "No". The Imam asked “Is Ramzan better or those four months?" He answered, "The month of Ramzan is better". The Imam said, “The same is the case with us, the Ahlul Bayt. You cannot compare anybody with us".
 
One day Abu Dharr was sitting in the company of people who were describing the virtues of this nation. Abu Dharr said, "Ali is best of all in this nation, and he is the apportioner of Heaven and Hell, the Siddiq and Farooq of the ummah and, the divine proof for this nation".

Hearing it from him those hypocrites turned their faces from him and refuting his statement called him a liar. At once Abu Amamah rose from there, went to the Holy Prophet and told him what Abu Dharr had said, and how that group had refused to accept it. The Holy Prophet (s) said, "There is no man between the Earth and the sky more truthful than Abu Dharr".
 
The same book has narrated on another authority that somebody asked Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq (a) if that was an authentic hadith wherein the Holy Prophet (s) has declared like this. The Imam said, "Yes". He said, "Then what positions do the Holy Prophet, Ali, Imam Hasan and Imam Husayn hold?" The Imam replied, "We are like the month of Ramadhan which contains one such night the worship of which is equal to that of one thousand months while the rest of the companions are like the respected month in relation to other months, and nobody can be compared with us, the Ahlul Bayt".
 
It becomes as clear as day light from the above mentioned hadith of the Holy Prophet that Abu Dharr was second to none in truthfulness. The commentary and the elucidation of the same hadith as made by Subaiti, describes that Abu Dharr will leave the world in the same condition, in which the Prophet had left him, and will see him in the same condition in the Hereafter.

If it is looked into deeply, Abu Dharr's firm stand on the path which had been strengthened by the Holy Prophet (s) reveals his important virtue. Scholars agree on the point that Abu Dharr did not swerve an inch from the path of the Holy Prophet. After the Prophet even a companion like Salman was forced to swear allegiance and was so much beaten in the masjid one day that his neck became swollen. But Abu Dharr was never found silent."

https://www.al-Islam.org/the-great-companion-of-Prophet-Abu-dharr/chapter-6

Interestingly, a similar hadith which mentions Abu Dharr (رضي الله عنه) as Isa (عليه السلام) of Ummah is also present in Sahih Tirmidhi.

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4 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

Time to permanently fix these tongues:

Looks like we have hurt your ego bad brother, or is it the new refuge of the malangi tola, the pseudo akhbari cover of Baqir Nisar Zaidi. 

 

Quote

https://www.al-Islam.org/the-great-companion-of-Prophet-Abu-dharr/chapter-6

Interestingly, a similar hadith which mentions Abu Dharr (رضي الله عنه) as Isa (عليه السلام) of Ummah is also present in Sahih Tirmidhi.

Forget your conjecture warped qiyas , interestingly you have yourself drawn a distinction in status above, see bold.   Quote a Shia reference or you want to defer your religious understanding to the Sunnis.  Mashallah, nice progress.

You have not understood the possession of different strengths of a common trait and or authority, let me help you

“Only Allah is your wali and His Apostle and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor rate while they bow”. (5:55)

Would these wilayas be of the same strength as in horizontal plain or would they be different in strength as in the vertical plain. 

If you can understand this you might begin to understand what we are discussing. 

I could have rahmah in me and so does the Holy Prophet(sawws) and so does Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Would you say they all have the same strength. 

Now you might just also begin to understand the bil quwa and bil fael. 

 

Edited by haideriam

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4 hours ago, haideriam said:

Looks like we have hurt your ego bad brother, or is it the new refuge of the malangi tola, the pseudo akhbari cover of Baqir Nisar Zaidi. 

 

4 hours ago, haideriam said:

Quote a Shia reference or you want to defer your religious understanding to the Sunnis.  Mashallah, nice progress.

Replying without even reading and watching the references!!

 :blabla:

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8 hours ago, haideriam said:

You have not understood the possession of different strengths of a common trait and or authority, let me help you

“Only Allah is your wali and His Apostle and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor rate while they bow”. (5:55)

Would these wilayas be of the same strength as in horizontal plain or would they be different in strength as in the vertical plain. 

If you can understand this you might begin to understand what we are discussing. 

I could have rahmah in me and so does the Holy Prophet(sawws) and so does Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Would you say they all have the same strength. 

Now you might just also begin to understand the bil quwa and bil fael. 

I can discuss this matter in more detail and can share with you more information. But not at the moment, right now, I continue my focus on the matter I am discussing.

So it is Madinatul ilm (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), who is mentioning the merits of his companion. And he (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) equalizing him with a Ma'soom in modesty and austerity. It is a lesson for us that anyone from us who strive to achieve self purification & struggle in the way of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) can achieve the status equals to Prophets in any field. 

Now lets get back to Qur'an, who are the ulil azm Prophets? Nuh (عليه السلام), Ibrahim (عليه السلام), Musa (عليه السلام), Isa (عليه السلام) and Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), lets see the story of one ulil azm Prophet (Musa (عليه السلام)) from Qur'an:
 

فَوَجَدَا عَبْدًا مِنْ عِبَادِنَا آتَيْنَاهُ رَحْمَةً مِنْ عِنْدِنَا وَعَلَّمْنَاهُ مِنْ لَدُنَّا عِلْمًا {65}

[Shakir 18:65] Then they found one from among Our servants whom We had granted mercy from Us and whom We had taught knowledge from Ourselves.

قَالَ لَهُ مُوسَىٰ هَلْ أَتَّبِعُكَ عَلَىٰ أَنْ تُعَلِّمَنِ مِمَّا عُلِّمْتَ رُشْدًا {66}

[Shakir 18:66] Musa said to him: Shall I follow you on condition that you should teach me right knowledge of what you have been taught?

قَالَ إِنَّكَ لَنْ تَسْتَطِيعَ مَعِيَ صَبْرًا {67}

[Shakir 18:67] He said: Surely you cannot have patience with me

This is the story of Khidr (عليه السلام) & Musa (عليه السلام). Was Khidr (عليه السلام) mentioned as a Ulil Azm Nabi? Yet he seems to be more knowledgeable and hence placed on greater level of patience as compared to the Ulil Azm Nabi. Interestingly, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has introduced him as "one from among my servants" (Abdan min ibadena) just like He has used similar words for Prophet Isa (عليه السلام) in the following verse:

إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا عَبْدٌ أَنْعَمْنَا عَلَيْهِ وَجَعَلْنَاهُ مَثَلًا لِبَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ {59}

[Shakir 43:59] He was naught but a servant on whom We bestowed favor, and We made him an example for the children of Israel.

Now get back to the verse 4:69 and see again its content and try to understand why I was saying in response to the "absurd" question: who is superior Isa (عليه السلام) or Abbas (عليه السلام)? 

وَمَنْ يُطِعِ اللَّهَ وَالرَّسُولَ فَأُولَٰئِكَ مَعَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِمْ مِنَ النَّبِيِّينَ وَالصِّدِّيقِينَ وَالشُّهَدَاءِ وَالصَّالِحِينَ ۚ وَحَسُنَ أُولَٰئِكَ رَفِيقًا

So who knows exactly that who has been granted greater in'am? Obviously only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows that. What I know is that Abbas (عليه السلام) has indeed obeyed Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and Apostle (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and has sacrificed his life as well as the adornment of this worldly life "fee sabilillah". I am neither a Prophet nor a scholar to give any religious verdict, I am just a student who is holding the thaqalain in my hands and I do read them and try to understand them with my limited knowledge. I do reserve the right to differ in opinion with any of my respected scholars. I have my own mind and own way of analyzing the information. 

Nowhere I have mentioned the overall superiority of hazrat Abbas (عليه السلام) over any Prophet, instead I am continuously maintaining the "had-e-adab" while discussing the merits of ma'soom and ghayr-e-ma'soom. No one become mo'min if he does not believe in the Prophethood of Isa (عليه السلام), no mo'min can ever deny that he is Kalimatullah, Ruhullah etc. What I have learned from my studies is that the most beloved title to almost every Prophet including Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), is the title of "Abd". Isa (عليه السلام) is Abd, Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is Abd, Ahlul Bayt are Abd and in this "Abdiyaat", Hazrat Abbas (عليه السلام) has secured his name and our Imams have called him "Abd-us Saleh". 

I don't know what in'am Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will grant him for his "be-mithl" service and sacrifice and sincerity, whether it will greater than Isa (عليه السلام) or lesser, greater than Musa (عليه السلام) or lesser etc. What I know for sure is that it will be less than Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and his Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام)

I think I have repeated and elaborated with full politeness, whatever I have said earlier. I am now out of this thread and will not respond here. 

Wassalam

Edited by Urwatul Wuthqa

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