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In the Name of God بسم الله
Guest abduzahra

waseelah of mary and jesus

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Guest abduzahra

so many shia say ya ali ya abbas ya fatime , but is maryam not a masuum also. is Jesus as not masuum as well and also alive till the coming of imam mahdi as?

some catholic friends of mine call out to maryam as or mary, and beg her to grant them their desires and mercy. when in danger she is the first they invoke sometimes even before jesus is it permissible to also call out to mary and jesus the catholics say mary is not God, it is just intercession. can i join them when they do this with the correct intention.

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Imams are higher them in rank for intercession also christians that live in Iran are asking intercession from Hazrat Abbas (a) too & this is very common between them.

it is not haram but it is like as you ask weaker Wassela for intercession when you have access to stronger Waseela that is not rational.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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Guest MKu
6 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Imams are higher them in rank for intercession also christians that live in Iran are asking intercession from Hazrat Abbas (a) too & this is very common between them.

it is not haram but it is like as you ask weaker Wassela for intercession when you have access to stronger Waseela that is not rational.

Isn't Jesus infallible ... haz abbas as is not infallible so how can a non masuum who has sin be a better waseelah

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13 hours ago, Guest MKu said:

Isn't Jesus infallible ... haz abbas as is not infallible so how can a non masuum who has sin be a better waseelah

he is infallible .............Haz Abbas did't commit a sin also he highly attached to Ahlulbayt (as) also has better attributes than any christian saints & apostles of christ  

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Guest edviance
13 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

he is infallible .............Haz Abbas did't commit a sin also he highly attached to Ahlulbayt (as) also has better attributes than any christian saints & apostles of christ  

and where is the proof

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15 hours ago, Guest edviance said:

and where is the proof

his life story of life available to everyone he born & raised specially because of Imam Hussain (as) & imam Ali (as) in his last moments taken pledge & instructed him to be like a shadow for Imam Hussain (as) after him he was infallible by practice that he received from Imam Ali (as) from when he born.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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On 11/18/2018 at 1:28 AM, Guest abduzahra said:

so many shia say ya ali ya abbas ya fatime , but is maryam not a masuum also. is Jesus as not masuum as well and also alive till the coming of imam mahdi as?

 

Lets have a look how we use the wasilah: 

Allahumma Behaqqe Muhammad, wa ant'al Mehmood
Allahumma Behaqqe Ali, wa ant'al Aala
Allahumma Behaqqe Fatima, wa anta Fatir-us-samawate wal ard
Allahumma Behaqqe Hassan, wa ant'al Mohsin
Allahumma Behaqqe Hussain, wa anta Qadeem ul Ahsaan

You can use the wasilah of Jesus & Mary in a similar manner. Interesting point in using their wasilah is in how you praise Allah (s.w.t) afterwards, for instance:

Allahumma Behaqqe Eesa, wa anta ????? or Allahumma Behaqqe Maryam wa anta ????? 

So as an advise, better use as wasilah those who are the wasilah of Eesa and Maryam :) 

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The reverence of Hazrat Abbas (a.s) among the Shia's are very much. He was such a blessed personality, a true supporter and helper of the grandson of Prophet (s). They role which he played in Karbala and the way he sacrificed his life along with the life of his brothers and sons in helping and supporting the truth is no doubt exemplary. After his martyrdom, his Alam becomes the Alam-e-Towheed, a symbol of the oneness of Allah and a representation of Imam Hussain (asws). 

Those who have pledged allegiance on the hands of Prophet (s) at the time of Ba'it-e-Ridwan and Allah called it as those who have pledged allegiance on Prophet's hand is as they have pledged allegiance on Allah's hand, similarly, If today, there is anyone who wants to pledge allegiance to the truth, should reach to the Alam of Hazrat Abbas (a.s) and pledge allegiance to the truth, it would be as he has pledged allegiance to the hand of Allah (s.w.t). 

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On 11/18/2018 at 11:59 PM, Ashvazdanghe said:

he is infallible .............Haz Abbas did't commit a sin also he highly attached to Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) also has better attributes than any Christian saints & apostles of christ  

Wait...How is Hazrat Abbas superior to Isa? He is neither an Imam or Prophet. Isa is both.

Edited by 786:)

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55 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

I don't think he said he is superior to Prophet Isa (عليه السلام).

Follow his entire train of thought. Just because one doesn’t explicitly say something doesn’t negate them alluding to it.

He states the Christians of Iraq use waseelah of Abbas, then his final rhetorical question is why use a lesser waseelah when you can use a better one.

^to this idea I’d like to ask him why Shia rarely use Muhammad as their waseelah? He is the best of mankind and closest to Allah. So why choose lesser waseelah than him?

Edited by 786:)

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Guest Enquire
2 hours ago, 786:) said:

Follow his entire train of thought. Just because one doesn’t explicitly say something doesn’t negate them alluding to it.

He states the Christians of Iraq use waseelah of Abbas, then his final rhetorical question is why use a lesser waseelah when you can use a better one.

^to this idea I’d like to ask him why Shia rarely use Muhammad as their waseelah? He is the best of mankind and closest to Allah. So why choose lesser waseelah than him?

I don't see this as an issue, but the fact he and others know full well what it would look like to be calling on Jesus Christ and Mary in the same way as some do with Hz Abbas. In fact, many Christians themselves for Mary would not go so far as to say certain things.

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8 hours ago, 786:) said:

Follow his entire train of thought. Just because one doesn’t explicitly say something doesn’t negate them alluding to it.

He states the Christians of Iraq use waseelah of Abbas, then his final rhetorical question is why use a lesser waseelah when you can use a better one.

^to this idea I’d like to ask him why Shia rarely use Muhammad as their waseelah? He is the best of mankind and closest to Allah. So why choose lesser waseelah than him?

Salam I said Christians in Iran specially Armenians are using waseelah of Abbas not Iraq anyway Christians in Iraq are widely cooperating with Shias in ten first days of Muharram & Arbaeen pilgrimage

Tawassul (Entreaty) to Imam al-Jawad (a)

40px-Book-open-flat.svg.png For his ziyarah text see ziyarah text of Imam al-Jawad (a).

According to consults of some Shi'a scholars, some Shi'as make tawassul to Imam al-Jawad (a) for increase in their daily sustenance and solution of their material problems and call him Bab al-Hawa'ij [Gate of Requests]. An example of such consults is quoted by the Second Majlisi from Abu l-Wafa' Shirazi who claimed that the Prophet (s) advised him in his dream to make Tawassul to Imam al-Jawad (a) in material issues.[94][95]

According to a hadith Dawud al-Sayrafi transmitted from Imam al-Hadi (a), visiting the shrine of Imam al-Jawad (a) has great rewards.[96] Also in a letter to Imam al-Hadi (a), Ibrahim b. 'Uqba asked about visiting the shrines of Imam al-Husayn (a)Imam al-Kazim (a) and Imam al-Jawad (a), and Imam al-Hadi (a) mentioned visiting the shrine of Imam al-Husayn (a) more important and said that visiting all the three is perfect and has many rewards.[97] The shrine of Imam al-Jawad (a) and Imam al-Kazim (a) is in Baghdad, where Muslims and especially Shi'a visit. They visit his shrine in Kadhimiya and make entreaty to him. In the martyrdom anniversary of Imam al-Jawad (a), Shi'a hold mourning ceremonies, recite elegies and beat their chests

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Imam_Muhammad_b._'Ali_al-Jawad_(a)

http://fa.wikishia.net/view/باب_الحوائج

---------------

also Hazrat Abbas (رضي الله عنه) is Bab al-Hawa'ij like as  Ali Asghar (رضي الله عنه) that martyred as infant on chest of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) & buried with him in same grave on his chest & it's proved that these two are fulfilling requests like as Imam Jawad (عليه السلام) although  nothing said about being these two as Bab al-Hawa'ij but it proven for these two several times & Hazrat Abbas (رضي الله عنه) has more popularity than the other two Bab al-Hawa'ij 

Miracle of H. `Abbas ع, Ya Bab al-Hawa'ij

 

6 hours ago, Guest Enquire said:

I don't see this as an issue, but the fact he and others know full well what it would look like to be calling on Jesus Christ and Mary in the same way as some do with Hz Abbas. In fact, many Christians themselves for Mary would not go so far as to say certain things.

this is because they influenced by Jewish stories about Lady Mary (sa)  & have doubt about her pureness & closeness to Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) also they see Jesus christ as God or something as godly creature that was body of God on Earth but we Shias don't have this idea Hazrat Abbas (رضي الله عنه) was like shadow of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) & closest person from non Masums to him that Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) doesn't reject a request through him but all Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) that Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) although their high position are lower than Allah & Prophet Muhammad (pbu) but they are higher than rest of Prophets (عليه السلام) that Sunnis don't accept it that Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) are higher than other Prophets (عليه السلام)  except Prophet Muhammad (pbu)  but it recorded in Sunni books that in time of Umar ,he asked from uncle of Prophet (pbu) as waseelah that he prays for rain 

حدثنا الحسن بن محمد قال حدثنا محمد بن عبد الله
الأنصاري قال حدثني أبي عبد الله بن المثنى عن ثمامة بن عبد الله بن أنس عن
أنس أن عمر بن الخطاب رضي الله عنه كان إذا قحطوا استسقى بالعباس بن عبد
المطلب فقال اللهم إنا كنا نتوسل إليك بنبينا صلى الله عليه وسلم فتسقينا
وإنا نتوسل إليك بعم نبينا فاسقنا قال فيسقون


صحیح بخاری،دار الفكر للطباعة والنشر والتوزيع،سال چاپ : 1401 - 1981 م،جلد دوم ،ص16

عَنْ عُمَرَ بْنِ الْخَطَّابِ : أنّه كَانَ إِذَا قَحَطُوا اسْتَسْقَى بِالْعَبَّاسِ بْنِ عَبْدِالْمُطَّلِبِ ، فَقَالَ: اللَّهُمَّ إِنَّا كُنَّا نَتَوَسَّلُ إِلَيْكَ بِنَبِيِّنَا فَتَسْقِينَ،ا وَإِنَّا نَتَوَسَّلُ إِلَيْكَ بِعَمِّ نَبِيِّنَا فَاسْقِنَا، قَالَ: فَيُسْقَوْنَ. (بخارى:1010)

صحيح بخارى ، ج2 ، ص16 ، ح1010 ، كتاب الإستسقاء ، باب 2 ، باب سؤال الناس الإمامة استسقاء اذا قَحَطُوا .
مختصر صحیح بخاری ،ص289 

When the famine was happening, Omar ibn Khattab would ask raining through Abbas and was saying: "Our Lord, we used to ask for rain through your Prophet before , and you sent down the water; now, by the uncle of our Prophet (Abbas), we ask you for rain."  The narrator says: "By the prayers of Abbas, It was raining."

Sahih Bukhari published 1981   1401 lunar  v2 p 16

Sahih Bukhari published   v2 p 16 hadith 1010 'ketab al istisqa' book of thirst chapter 2 chapter asking people imamate of thirst when there is famine 

http://www.askdin.com/showthread.php?t=25382

 توسل عمر به عباس عموی پیامبر صلی الله علیه وآله

Tawassul of Umar to Abbas uncle of Prophet (pbu) 

 

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9 hours ago, 786:) said:

this idea I’d like to ask him why Shia rarely use Muhammad as their waseelah?

1. Dua e Tawasssul begins by requesting Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) to be our waseelah to reach Allah and after that come the other Masomeen(عليه السلام)

2. The recommended etiquette of dua for Shias is that dua should start by saying darood/blessings on the Prophet Muhammad(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) so we use Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) as waseelah in every single dua. The others waseelahs are additional. 

11 hours ago, 786:) said:

How is Hazrat Abbas superior to Isa?

We beseech to a personality we feel emotionally and spiritually closest to, someone whom we remember and think of at times in our lives other than asking for Dua from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). It's natural for humans to turn to the person they feel closest to in times of difficulty. Since Shias feel very close to Masoomeen(عليه السلام) it is common that we ask them for tawassal rather than other personalities even though they are Prophets(عليه السلام). 

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13 hours ago, 786:) said:

How is Hazrat Abbas superior to Isa? He is neither an Imam or Prophet. Isa is both.

:bismillah:

وَمَنْ يُطِعِ اللَّهَ وَالرَّسُولَ فَأُولَٰئِكَ مَعَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِمْ مِنَ النَّبِيِّينَ وَالصِّدِّيقِينَ وَالشُّهَدَاءِ وَالصَّالِحِينَ ۚ وَحَسُنَ أُولَٰئِكَ رَفِيقًا

4:69

Hazrat Abbas (عليه السلام) is Abdus-Swaleh, Shaheed as well as a Siddiq. If you ask me how Hazrat Abbas (عليه السلام) is superior, I would say because he sacrificed his life as well as adornment of this worldly life (zenat-e-hayat-e-duniya) in nusrat-e-haqq I.e., in helping the one who is the bearer of the minniyat of Rasool Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). I hope that it was a wish of Prophet Isa ((عليه السلام)) to be among those who helped Imam Hussain ((عليه السلام)) and sacrificed their lives for him.

 

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:bismillah:

:salam:

Hazrat Abbas(عليه السلام) is not superior to Hazrat Isa(عليه السلام) an ulul azm Prophet. 

In fact among Shia there are 3 concepts in the order of adherents amongst the learned. This does not include Maula Abbas(عليه السلام) for all his greatness.

1. Rasool Allah(sawws) and the 14 Masoomeen(عليه السلام) are above in rank to all Prophets(عليه السلام)

2. Ulul Azm Prophets(عليه السلام) are above in rank to the Imams(عليه السلام)

3. All Prophets(عليه السلام) are above in rank to the Imams(عليه السلام)

:ws:

 

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1 hour ago, Salsabeel said:

:bismillah:

وَمَنْ يُطِعِ اللَّهَ وَالرَّسُولَ فَأُولَٰئِكَ مَعَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِمْ مِنَ النَّبِيِّينَ وَالصِّدِّيقِينَ وَالشُّهَدَاءِ وَالصَّالِحِينَ ۚ وَحَسُنَ أُولَٰئِكَ رَفِيقًا

4:69

Hazrat Abbas (عليه السلام) is Abdus-Swaleh, Shaheed as well as a Siddiq. If you ask me how Hazrat Abbas (عليه السلام) is superior, I would say because he sacrificed his life as well as adornment of this worldly life (zenat-e-hayat-e-duniya) in nusrat-e-haqq I.e., in helping the one who is the bearer of the minniyat of Rasool Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). I hope that it was a wish of Prophet Isa ((عليه السلام)) to be among those who helped Imam Hussain ((عليه السلام)) and sacrificed their lives for him.

 

So do you believe Hazrat Hamza is greater than Prophet Isa too? Because he checks every box Hazrat Abbas does and has closer ties to the Holy Prophet.

Or have you just built a bias for all the personalities of Karbala from the years of masayb. Your opinion is simply emotional.

Edited by 786:)

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