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In the Name of God بسم الله
2Timeless

Man acquitted of raping 17 year old in Ireland

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Lol. I'm not even going to bother anymore. You're just arguing for the sake of it. Your argument is empty anyway, no substance to it. May Allah bless you brother.

I hope you understand my "baby language". If not, please stop spamming my thread with the same things over and over again.

Edited by 2Timeless

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Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum Sister @2Timeless

I promote chastity, modesty and purity sister.  Just like you are passionate in a cause, I too, see the injustices that happen to men because of the entitlement of stealing his financial income of mahr plus civil settlement.  Throwing Islam out of the window, having no care in the world of hallal and haram  and devouring him of everything he owns.  

Using her children as pawns and in custody battles and can't see his children even when he pays the full amount of child support.  

Refusing her children to meet with their father because she holds malice in her heart and grudges.  Brainwashes her children to hate their father and all the wickedness she hisses in them.

It's twofold sister.   There is always two sides to a story.  Anyone can be a victim.  It's not man vs woman.  It's justice vs. injustice.  Truth vs falsehood.  That should be our moral compass.

There are many catastrophic events sister, when amir bil m3rouf wa nahi 3n al mounkar is being shunned and not exercised we will see more corruption in the masses.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Klanky said:

What, in this context, must females be responsible for? My point was not specifically about this case, it was about the women-have-only-themselves-to-blame-when-men-rape-them attitude

why don't you go and do a stake out at the town or city centre, where most of the clubs are. I am sure observational experience might be educational. The context is in regards to behavior.

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6 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

hope you understand my "baby language". If not, please stop spamming my thread with the same things over and over again

perhaps if you learn read properly, I do not have to waste my time re-writing the same nonsense. All you had to write is that you acknowledge I was right from the first post. That take courage. But being a female you can't do that. Because females have to right even when they are wrong and admitting that you are wrong would demean the whole post.

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1 minute ago, Laayla said:

It's twofold sister.   There is always two sides to a story.  Anyone can be a victim.  It's not man vs woman.  It's justice vs. injustice.  Truth vs falsehood.  That should be our moral compass

I agree. No one on here even once suggested otherwise. 

Yet again, with all the examples in your post, the woman is evil. 

What about a woman being raped every day by her "perfect" husband? Or a woman being abused by her husband who finally decides to stand up for herself and get a divorce, and keep the children safe from such a monster? 

Despite what you may believe, this is not a feminist cause. Feminism calls for equality. This thread calls for justice and fairness for the victim. Not because she's a woman. And not because the defendant is a man. But because the grounds on which the defendant was acquitted are quite horrendous, in my opinion. 

No matter how much haram the victim has committed, no one in this world has the authority to punish her or even suggest the way she was wronged was correct. Just because she may have been a non-muslim and was wearing provocative clothing, that does not make her an evil entity we should not care or respect at all. We are all humans. 

If you are able to feel sympathy for a man falsely accused of rape, how could you not express sympathy for an alleged rape victim? Being an actual rape victim, is probably the worst thing that can happen to a woman. It's worse than having your reputation ruined by a rape accusation. Do you believe it was the victims fault, and that she was not raped because of her choice of clothing? (Genuine question).

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9 minutes ago, monad said:

why don't you go and do a stake out at the town or city centre, where most of the clubs are. I am sure observational experience might be educational. The context is in regards to behavior.

I'm regularly out and about at night. Do you mean their revealing clothes lure rapists into committing their crimes? 

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Sister @2Timeless

My opinion doesn't matter.   I care for sharee3a.  What Allah sees as the greater sin, or injustice done to other human beings.  I don't follow morality based on falliable human beings or what is currently acceptable in this time, age, and society.  No way!

Quote

Being an actual rape victim, is probably the worst thing that can happen to a woman. It's worse than having your reputation ruined by a rape accusation. 

https://www.al-islam.org/greater-sins-volume-3-ayatullah-sayyid-abdul-husayn-dastghaib-shirazi

@eloquence

Allhoma 3jal farrajah.  

Edited by Laayla

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9 minutes ago, Laayla said:

The Forty-third Greater Sin: Insulting a Believer

She didn't say it isn't a sin to lie and slander a person. She only said rape is worse. 

I wonder what number is it to take away a person's choice and dignity and to cause them physical and psychological damage. 

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48 minutes ago, notme said:

She didn't say it isn't a sin to lie and slander a person. She only said rape is worse. 

I wonder what number is it to take away a person's choice and dignity and to cause them physical and psychological damage. 

When it comes to actual punishment by court, we see Islam punishes rape more harshly than slander. While rape is punished by death, slander is not. 

Slander, nonetheless, is a great sin and has hurt many people.

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Salam Alaykoom

24 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Slander, nonetheless, is a great sin and has hurt many people.

This is completely true. Also, on the matter of adultery and fornication (be it consenting or not), many verses in the Qur'an point toward having 4 male ocular witnesses to the act. If you accuse someone* of adultery, fornication, rape, sexual indecency or anything else of that nature without the required amount of witnesses, according to the islamic law, you are deemed as a slanderer, the punishment being 80 lashes, and you will not be considered a reliable witness ever again.

The rulings are crystal clear and are found in the Qur'an itself: there's no need to whine and cry about how women have it harder since this applies to both men and women alike. Interesting fact about that case: according to the Shari'a, the woman is entirely in the wrong because she accused the man of rape without producing 4 witnesses, and would deserve 80 lashes.

Please do keep a cool head about stuff like this, or if you can't, abstain from pronouncing your opinions on the matter. Passing a judgment with the utmost respect to truth and the rights of each and every party is an incredibly arduous task to do, and can only be undertaken by the qualified people who have an extensive knowledge of every single Qur'anic verse and hadith of the Masoomeen (as) on the subject at hand.

Wa Salam.

*Married people accusing their wives/husband, however, may testify without the need to have witnesses, the ruling being specified in surah nur, verses 6 to 10.

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9 hours ago, Klanky said:

 

Leaving aside the particulars of this case, in Ireland women are allowed to wear what they like and men are not allowed rape anyone under any circumstances. It is clear and there is no confusion about it. This case is controversial because, at least as it has been presented, it challenged this simple common sense assumption. Men are responsible for their own behavior.

Hello this is not true there is rules for clothing everywhere in the world and Ireland is not an exception. And again I didn't justify any rape I just said that women must not be naive when they say choose what to wear and of course men who rape are 1000x worst than women who wear some kind of clothes. 

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9 hours ago, Klanky said:

it challenged this simple common sense assumption. Men are responsible for their own behavior.

both sides are responsible beside dress code in islam specially Shia islam both men & women beside wearing cloths by dress code also must consider discipline & behavior just wearing Abayah for women or wearing traditional arabaic garment for men don't make them modest persons , women must behave & walk modest and don't use such perfumes that attracts people specially men & men must control their gaze & their intention of looking.

this is a problem that women that women just wear modest but their action & smell is attracting for men same as men that maybe they wear islamic dress code but by  eye are looking for all type women.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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Back to the OP:

l Iooked up several articles, but what l can't find is "how" the accused is allegedly to have seen her thong? Was she even wearing something over them?

And NO, l ain't being crude. Last Spring l think it was, a woman was in the local supermarket and her daughter was wearing laced undies which l could see because she was wearing "laced night dress" (l had to Iook that up). l couldn't figure out what-is-wrong-with-this-picture for a second as they were over in the check-out line.

Also, about thirty years ago, there was a woman down the street who use to run around in her underwear --outside.

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17 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

l Iooked up several articles, but what l can't find is "how" the accused is allegedly to have seen her thong? Was she even wearing something over them?

According to this, they were lying in the muddy alleyway, she was wearing a dress. 

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/counsel-for-man-acquitted-of-rape-suggested-jurors-should-reflect-on-underwear-worn-by-teen-complainant-883613.html

I don't know all the facts of the case, so I'm not going to try to get to a verdict (although I'm more inclined to think he is guilty). The reason why  I started this thread was because of the outrageous argument presented by the defence. An item of clothing does not signify consent. 

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11 hours ago, Laayla said:

The following is a true story.

A man is at a beach and sees a female in a bikini.  The man catcalls the female.

The female goes and calls her fiance and tells him this man was catcalling her.

Fiance goes to the beach and kills the man.

Take this case at an Islamic court, what would be the ruling of who is at fault?  All of them being Muslim.

"Fault" is not an excuse for murder or manslaughter.

Edited by hasanhh

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1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

l Iooked up several articles, but what l can't find is "how" the accused is allegedly to have seen her thong? Was she even wearing something over them?

Buddy, we are dealing with zombies here. The topic keeps changing course constantly, which implies that the majority cannot comprehend the true objective.

some of the females here are not interested in facts, they keep inferring their childish emotions and claiming that there is as some form of righteous indignation.

The fact was, a female defense lawyer somehow got the alleged victims underwear as evidence?.

if not : the male is claiming that this is what she wore, he would have not known it, if it was rape in a muddied alleyway. Alleyways are generally have low lighting

11 hours ago, Klanky said:

I'm regularly out and about at night. Do you mean their revealing clothes lure rapists into committing their crimes?

Well, geegolly, let me think. Hyper aggressive male who is in a heightened sexual mode. observers two women of the same height, body language, one is dressed with light clothing the other with jeans and a coat. Who do you think his target will be?. The one where he can rip the cloths of far easily or not?. Do you actually use that head of yours to think?.

There is a substantial body of indirect evidence suggesting that sexual attractions occur with increased frequency during states of strong emotion. For example, heterosexual
love has been observed to be associated both with hate (James, 1910; Suttie, 193S) and with pain (Ellis, 1936). A connection between "aggression" and sexual attraction is
supported by Tinbergen's (1954) observations of intermixed courting and aggression behaviors in various animal species, and a series of experiments conducted by Barclay
have indicated the existence of a similar phenomenon in human behavior.
Plenty of research out there, but as usual no one is interested in fact, they are driven by emotions.

11 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

This thread calls for justice and fairness for the victim.

she is not a victim. The court acquitted the male. If you are claiming she is victim because a female lawyer used underwear as potential evidence and feelings got hurt, then we must examine all forms of evidence ever being used as evidence. Case close.

Edited by monad

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