Jump to content
2Timeless

Man acquitted of raping 17 year old in Ireland

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Asssalam Alikum.

I learned from Surat Yousif how Zulikha tried to seduce Nabe Yousif 3la salam and when her husband came and saw what was happening she blamed Nabe Yousif 3la salam.

There are many cases where the woman seduces the man and then later calls the police and falsely says she was raped.  I hope our Muslim brothers are smart not to sleep around with loose unchaste women and choose instead the sacred institution of marriage.  Allah swt protect us from the wlad al haram!

And do look at what she is wearing!  Hook line and sinker.  wal 3yadhu bil Allah

Viewer discretion is advised!

 

 

 

Edited by Laayla

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, alidu78 said:

 What I said is that men and women must take their responsibilities and wear correct clothes.  

 

2 hours ago, monad said:

 I still blame the 17year old.

She went out on a date with an older guy and decided to dress in a particular way to be more appealing. She clearly was not wear those items by it self, so something led him to believe she was seducing him, and that were his signals to follow through.

Leaving aside the particulars of this case, in Ireland women are allowed to wear what they like and men are not allowed rape anyone under any circumstances. It is clear and there is no confusion about it. This case is controversial because, at least as it has been presented, it challenged this simple common sense assumption. Men are responsible for their own behavior.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

Victim blaming will not really allow me to read the rest of your post and actually take anything you say seriously. Women do not want it both ways. Some men just keep looking for ways to excuse disgusting and beastly behaviour. You can keep posting incredibly insensitive and offensive things, just know nothing you say will be held in high regard at all. Please rethink the things you've said. 

I appreciate the imitative adult response, however it is nothing but manipulative.

Leaving aside the particulars of this case, in Ireland women are allowed to wear what they like and men are not allowed rape anyone under any circumstances. It is clear and there is no confusion about it. This case is controversial because, at least as it has been presented, it challenged this simple common sense assumption. Men are responsible for their own behavior.

It seems using rational isn't a strong point here. This is not about dress code but the new papers have made it as that. A particular point as been used as the main discourse of claiming the not guilty point. Clearly the evidence in court was in favor of the man, and knowing if the public had such evidence they too would probably side with the male. I suggest you take your nonsensical associative bias regarding the freedom of western idealism regarding the liberties of females to do what they will and what want somewhere it has tangible value. A social club setting might entail, I hear at the local Irish bar  must be a great insight for wild life anthropologists.

If men must be responsible then so must women. I do not see anyone stating the obvious as written early. What made her think it was okay to date a guy 10 years older then her. The age of consent in Ireland is 17.

For all we know she felt guilty for what she did and the only way to save face was to accuse someone for rape. Again none of us have evidence.

Edited by monad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Khadim uz Zahra said:

Secondly, even if they were sleeping in a shared bed and she was in her underwear, why would you want to have sex with someone while she's sleeping and not even aware of what's happening? It's just not right

dude,  It was a video next to the article, probably on the Irish post. Remove it if you want. I am not going to google it just for this. Thanks.

to edit : if the pants were being used as evidence or being used as coercive evidence, then there must be validity for it being used. It does not matter what age anyone is in there, the objective is justice. Find the truth. Ohh please don't wave that knife I used to kill  or used for killing, I find it offensive?. We can clearly see, the females are barraging on feelings as there is nothing else to actually grasp. It is a court, what do they expect to happen in there?. You have lawyers whose main objective is to defend and attack.

Edited by monad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@monad you do realise that what you're saying isn't only immoral but it's also un-islamic right? Harming another individual, no matter how much they provoke you is haram. Simple as. If the girl was committing haram by wearing revealing clothes, it's upto Allah to punish her. Not you or me, or a rapist. 

As for your comments about the girl taking responsibility...how many times does it need to be said that men are not animals? I'm pretty sure alot of the gentlemen here have been provoked many, many times. I don't think many of them are rapists. Why? Because they are not animals who cannot control themselves. Men are humans. They have control over their thoughts, desires and actions. 

Yes, a woman can influence said thoughts, desires and actions. But that's as far as it can get. Men have the final say in what they do/commit. 

You are right that some men are falsely accused of rape, which is horrible. I can't imagine what a detrimental experience that would be for them. But just because some men are falsely accused of rape, that shouldn't undermine the more believable cases. This case does not involve a teenager who sleeps with a man while drunk and regrets it the next morning, so goes to court for it. This is a case where the victim was allegedly raped in a "dirty alleyway" by a man 10 years older than her. One of the arguments presented by the defence was that her underwear indicated consent. Seriously? Of all things, the type of undergarments she wore indicate her consent???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@monad Stop blaming the girl for the guy's disgusting actions. Regardless of anything, rape is not acceptable at all. I have heard of many stories where guys do all disgusting things with girls who sleep. If she wears a niqab, hijab or is fully nude, it literally should make no difference. Even if she dated someone older than her, a guy has no right to rape her. 

The fact that the lawyer even considered using the "underwear" to defend the rapist is literally shocking. It means - had the woman not worn an underwear, she would not have been raped. Just put aside your emotions for a second, it's not a debate or anything, you really need to rethink what you've said.

Why do you always try to be different for the sake of having an alternative point of view? Let's all shame these rapists and be firm against them. Islam tells us that we should show compassion to a woman. It literally goes against the Quran for a man to even consider using force during sexual Intercourse.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, monad said:

I appreciate the imitative adult response, however it is nothing but manipulative.

Leaving aside the particulars of this case, in Ireland women are allowed to wear what they like and men are not allowed rape anyone under any circumstances. It is clear and there is no confusion about it. This case is controversial because, at least as it has been presented, it challenged this simple common sense assumption. Men are responsible for their own behavior.

It seems using rational isn't a strong point here. This is not about dress code but the new papers have made it as that. A particular point as been used as the main discourse of claiming the not guilty point. Clearly the evidence in court was in favor of the man, and knowing if the public had such evidence they too would probably side with the male. I suggest you take your nonsensical associative bias regarding the freedom of western idealism regarding the liberties of females to do what they will and what want somewhere it has tangible value. A social club setting might entail, I hear at the local Irish bar  must be a great insight for wild life anthropologists.

If men must be responsible then so must women. I do not see anyone stating the obvious as written early. What made her think it was okay to date a guy 10 years older then her. The age of consent in Ireland is 17.

For all we know she felt guilty for what she did and the only way to save face was to accuse someone for rape. Again none of us have evidence.

What, in this context, must females be responsible for? My point was not specifically about this case, it was about the women-have-only-themselves-to-blame-when-men-rape-them attitude

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The following is a true story.

A man is at a beach and sees a female in a bikini.  The man catcalls the female.

The female goes and calls her fiance and tells him this man was catcalling her.

Fiance goes to the beach and kills the man.

Take this case at an Islamic court, what would be the ruling of who is at fault?  All of them being Muslim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Laayla said:

The following is a true story.

A man is at a beach and sees a female in a bikini.  The man catcalls the female.

The female goes and calls her fiance and tells him this man was catcalling her.

Fiance goes to the beach and kills the man.

Take this case at an Islamic court, what would be the ruling of who is at fault?  All of them being Muslim.

You keep providing extreme examples of anything relating to women manipulating the system or wearing something inappropriate which lead to a catastrophe. Not all cases are like that. Why not discuss all the tragic cases where innocent rape victims were not believed, and were instead blamed for being violated in the worst way possible. Not all women are evil and manipulative, the same way that not all men are violent animals. 

We need to support rape victims and shame rapists. Of course, in cases where the man has been falsely accused, that is horrendous, but that's not the case all the time. Here for example, the girl was obviously not walking around in her underwear. The guy must have stepped over the line at some point, in a muddy alleyway. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is comical. I tried to find Khadim the video, and I ended up many sites with the same discussions. It all follows the same trend. The females simply cannot not understand the rational points being made. the females seems to change the whole point made into something that is not even related to the subject matter. How is that even possible.:helpsos:

You have taken my responses to infer that I am claiming she was being punished for wearing poor choice of clothing? understand the context.

I suggest some books on anthropology. Desmond Morris - People Watching is a good start.

I will write this in baby language.

She went out dressed provocatively. Why?. Because she has the freedom too?. So are we stating while she was dressing up, she said OHHH, I feel the liberties of this great nation, where I can dress in a short skirt, so that the sun will glim off my newly shaved legs?. I will add a tad bit of cleavage, with extra perfume, to smell like a lovely garden in paris, and red lipstick, just like the lushes red tulips of Holland.

Duuhhh, all of this is done to for the purpose of attraction. Males do the same. And then they all get together in a setting where they will be in a loud and dark room, drinking alcohol, dancing, all eyeing out the next potential love and having to get very close to each other just to speak. After having their laughs, and in a state of heightened sexual  arousal and intoxication, what do you think hyper will occur?. Someone will be taken advantage off. That is a fact.

So, there is nothing about provocation, especially when seduction is involved. As I have pointed out, the female do not want to comprehend the whole picture, they are whining about under garments being used as a possible coercive evidence, while none of them, even like me know the language of the law.

 

Why do you always try to be different for the sake of having an alternative point of view? Let's all shame these rapists and be firm against them. Islam tells us that we should show compassion to a woman. It literally goes against the Quran for a man to even consider using force during sexual Intercourse.

Bro, seriously. read the above. :hahaha:

It went from rape, to not being rape, too omg, under wear was used as evidence, cant do that in a LAW OF COURT WHERE THE OBJECTIVE IS TO FIND EVIDENCE, think of the victim, this is inferring the male is already a rapist - to now what? monad is stating she deserved it?. :sign_offtopic:

Edited by monad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol. I'm not even going to bother anymore. You're just arguing for the sake of it. Your argument is empty anyway, no substance to it. May Allah bless you brother.

I hope you understand my "baby language". If not, please stop spamming my thread with the same things over and over again.

Edited by 2Timeless

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum Sister @2Timeless

I promote chastity, modesty and purity sister.  Just like you are passionate in a cause, I too, see the injustices that happen to men because of the entitlement of stealing his financial income of mahr plus civil settlement.  Throwing Islam out of the window, having no care in the world of hallal and haram  and devouring him of everything he owns.  

Using her children as pawns and in custody battles and can't see his children even when he pays the full amount of child support.  

Refusing her children to meet with their father because she holds malice in her heart and grudges.  Brainwashes her children to hate their father and all the wickedness she hisses in them.

It's twofold sister.   There is always two sides to a story.  Anyone can be a victim.  It's not man vs woman.  It's justice vs. injustice.  Truth vs falsehood.  That should be our moral compass.

There are many catastrophic events sister, when amir bil m3rouf wa nahi 3n al mounkar is being shunned and not exercised we will see more corruption in the masses.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Klanky said:

What, in this context, must females be responsible for? My point was not specifically about this case, it was about the women-have-only-themselves-to-blame-when-men-rape-them attitude

why don't you go and do a stake out at the town or city centre, where most of the clubs are. I am sure observational experience might be educational. The context is in regards to behavior.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, 2Timeless said:

hope you understand my "baby language". If not, please stop spamming my thread with the same things over and over again

perhaps if you learn read properly, I do not have to waste my time re-writing the same nonsense. All you had to write is that you acknowledge I was right from the first post. That take courage. But being a female you can't do that. Because females have to right even when they are wrong and admitting that you are wrong would demean the whole post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Laayla said:

It's twofold sister.   There is always two sides to a story.  Anyone can be a victim.  It's not man vs woman.  It's justice vs. injustice.  Truth vs falsehood.  That should be our moral compass

I agree. No one on here even once suggested otherwise. 

Yet again, with all the examples in your post, the woman is evil. 

What about a woman being raped every day by her "perfect" husband? Or a woman being abused by her husband who finally decides to stand up for herself and get a divorce, and keep the children safe from such a monster? 

Despite what you may believe, this is not a feminist cause. Feminism calls for equality. This thread calls for justice and fairness for the victim. Not because she's a woman. And not because the defendant is a man. But because the grounds on which the defendant was acquitted are quite horrendous, in my opinion. 

No matter how much haram the victim has committed, no one in this world has the authority to punish her or even suggest the way she was wronged was correct. Just because she may have been a non-muslim and was wearing provocative clothing, that does not make her an evil entity we should not care or respect at all. We are all humans. 

If you are able to feel sympathy for a man falsely accused of rape, how could you not express sympathy for an alleged rape victim? Being an actual rape victim, is probably the worst thing that can happen to a woman. It's worse than having your reputation ruined by a rape accusation. Do you believe it was the victims fault, and that she was not raped because of her choice of clothing? (Genuine question).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, monad said:

why don't you go and do a stake out at the town or city centre, where most of the clubs are. I am sure observational experience might be educational. The context is in regards to behavior.

I'm regularly out and about at night. Do you mean their revealing clothes lure rapists into committing their crimes? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sister @2Timeless

My opinion doesn't matter.   I care for sharee3a.  What Allah sees as the greater sin, or injustice done to other human beings.  I don't follow morality based on falliable human beings or what is currently acceptable in this time, age, and society.  No way!

Quote

Being an actual rape victim, is probably the worst thing that can happen to a woman. It's worse than having your reputation ruined by a rape accusation. 

https://www.al-islam.org/greater-sins-volume-3-ayatullah-sayyid-abdul-husayn-dastghaib-shirazi

@eloquence

Allhoma 3jal farrajah.  

Edited by Laayla

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Laayla said:

The Forty-third Greater Sin: Insulting a Believer

She didn't say it isn't a sin to lie and slander a person. She only said rape is worse. 

I wonder what number is it to take away a person's choice and dignity and to cause them physical and psychological damage. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, notme said:

She didn't say it isn't a sin to lie and slander a person. She only said rape is worse. 

I wonder what number is it to take away a person's choice and dignity and to cause them physical and psychological damage. 

When it comes to actual punishment by court, we see Islam punishes rape more harshly than slander. While rape is punished by death, slander is not. 

Slander, nonetheless, is a great sin and has hurt many people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam Alaykoom

24 minutes ago, Sumerian said:

Slander, nonetheless, is a great sin and has hurt many people.

This is completely true. Also, on the matter of adultery and fornication (be it consenting or not), many verses in the Qur'an point toward having 4 male ocular witnesses to the act. If you accuse someone* of adultery, fornication, rape, sexual indecency or anything else of that nature without the required amount of witnesses, according to the islamic law, you are deemed as a slanderer, the punishment being 80 lashes, and you will not be considered a reliable witness ever again.

The rulings are crystal clear and are found in the Qur'an itself: there's no need to whine and cry about how women have it harder since this applies to both men and women alike. Interesting fact about that case: according to the Shari'a, the woman is entirely in the wrong because she accused the man of rape without producing 4 witnesses, and would deserve 80 lashes.

Please do keep a cool head about stuff like this, or if you can't, abstain from pronouncing your opinions on the matter. Passing a judgment with the utmost respect to truth and the rights of each and every party is an incredibly arduous task to do, and can only be undertaken by the qualified people who have an extensive knowledge of every single Qur'anic verse and hadith of the Masoomeen (as) on the subject at hand.

Wa Salam.

*Married people accusing their wives/husband, however, may testify without the need to have witnesses, the ruling being specified in surah nur, verses 6 to 10.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Klanky said:

 

Leaving aside the particulars of this case, in Ireland women are allowed to wear what they like and men are not allowed rape anyone under any circumstances. It is clear and there is no confusion about it. This case is controversial because, at least as it has been presented, it challenged this simple common sense assumption. Men are responsible for their own behavior.

Hello this is not true there is rules for clothing everywhere in the world and Ireland is not an exception. And again I didn't justify any rape I just said that women must not be naive when they say choose what to wear and of course men who rape are 1000x worst than women who wear some kind of clothes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Klanky said:

it challenged this simple common sense assumption. Men are responsible for their own behavior.

both sides are responsible beside dress code in islam specially Shia islam both men & women beside wearing cloths by dress code also must consider discipline & behavior just wearing Abayah for women or wearing traditional arabaic garment for men don't make them modest persons , women must behave & walk modest and don't use such perfumes that attracts people specially men & men must control their gaze & their intention of looking.

this is a problem that women that women just wear modest but their action & smell is attracting for men same as men that maybe they wear islamic dress code but by  eye are looking for all type women.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back to the OP:

l Iooked up several articles, but what l can't find is "how" the accused is allegedly to have seen her thong? Was she even wearing something over them?

And NO, l ain't being crude. Last Spring l think it was, a woman was in the local supermarket and her daughter was wearing laced undies which l could see because she was wearing "laced night dress" (l had to Iook that up). l couldn't figure out what-is-wrong-with-this-picture for a second as they were over in the check-out line.

Also, about thirty years ago, there was a woman down the street who use to run around in her underwear --outside.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

l Iooked up several articles, but what l can't find is "how" the accused is allegedly to have seen her thong? Was she even wearing something over them?

According to this, they were lying in the muddy alleyway, she was wearing a dress. 

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/counsel-for-man-acquitted-of-rape-suggested-jurors-should-reflect-on-underwear-worn-by-teen-complainant-883613.html

I don't know all the facts of the case, so I'm not going to try to get to a verdict (although I'm more inclined to think he is guilty). The reason why  I started this thread was because of the outrageous argument presented by the defence. An item of clothing does not signify consent. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×