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Mariamtee

Trying to get married

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Salam everyone,

today I told my dad that I wanted someone to speak to him about marriage and he said let the mums talks.. it’s a mother’s that talk first. & I told him it’s different because this guy is Lebanese (I’m iraqi) and then he went on that no Lebanese, noway. And his reason is that we don’t know them. I told him, how are they any different, he’s into his deen and his good and he’s like yeah I know, they’re very religious but we don’t know them. No Lebanese, never. He never had a good reason and walked off.

What do I do now?? Can someone please help me, do I call a sheik? Do I wait it out? I don’t have anyone else to ask.. I’ve been waiting 3 years to marry him, I’ve been praying, making dua.. has anyone gone through this?

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I have no experience with this sort of situation in particular. What I do know about Iraqi dads is, wait it out a little. Be a good girl etc don't get on his nerves. Get your mum to try and ease your dad into the idea of marrying a Lebanese guy. Get your mum to ask around about their family, what the mother is like etc...Since you've already been waiting three years you might want to get things serious. Maybe give your dad's number to the guy and talk to him? Or arrange a meeting between the groom and your father, to let your father see that he's a good guy? Maybe have someone "coincidentally" introduce them to each other at mosque or something?

I'm quite surprised your dad isn't okay with you marrying a Lebanese man. Hopefully others can provide you with better advice. BUT, no matter what you do, don't whinge and moan to your father 24/7 about this issue. Maybe if it works with your dad, then that's great. But in my experience, I think you should let him cool off a little, maybe even let him feel a little guilty by being his perfect daughter? 

Good luck.

Edited by 2Timeless

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1 hour ago, monad said:

Arabs tend to hate each other. Someone shed light on this. 1400years + and the arabs are still stuck there. I am picking Arabs as supposedly they had more time on Islam then we dirty heathen had.

Perhaps your family and friends are of this nature.

Personally I'm from an extremely diverse family with all kinds of mixed ethnicities.  I love that. And I happen to have three half Iraqi half Lebanese cousins so this "arabs hate eachother" mentality you're talking about is not true. It's only true amongst ignorant people who don't follow islam. 

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6 hours ago, Mariamtee said:

Salam everyone,

today I told my dad that I wanted someone to speak to him about marriage and he said let the mums talks.. it’s a mother’s that talk first. & I told him it’s different because this guy is Lebanese (I’m iraqi) and then he went on that no Lebanese, noway. And his reason is that we don’t know them. I told him, how are they any different, he’s into his deen and his good and he’s like yeah I know, they’re very religious but we don’t know them. No Lebanese, never. He never had a good reason and walked off.

What do I do now?? Can someone please help me, do I call a sheik? Do I wait it out? I don’t have anyone else to ask.. I’ve been waiting 3 years to marry him, I’ve been praying, making dua.. has anyone gone through this?

Alaikum asslm.

Modern Jahiliya my friend.

Prophet (saws) came to break all these shackles of Jahiliya which stands tall on humans like lots of burden. What grateful it would be to be allowed to marry someone out of our comfort zone (different colors, prestige in the society, nationality, etc). In that way far-off people will come closer and beautiful Islamic environment will be created.

But since we are living in the era of Great Jahiliya, we are bound to face such issues where a white boy's mom is not ready for him to marry a black girl and a Iraqi girl is not getting permission to marry a pious man of Lebanon. A boy who wants to marry a handicapped to earn the pleasure of Allah and to support that girl is not allowed to do so just because she is handicapped and because of fear of "What people would say".

Is this not same as Arabs fearing to give birth to a girl child because they feared insult in the eyes of people??

Where people are not allowed to marry divorcee easily.
Where it seems awkward and unethical to marry an orphan.
Where people of different prestige in the society, one with a higher rank and one with a low are not allowed to marry each other.
When we don't find them worthy to share our table-spread with 
them, how come we can share them our beloved sons and daughters.

Wow. How happy my Prophet would be to see such oppression done by parents on Islamic values.

No words left to say.

Edited by Waseem162

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Salam Alaykoom,

7 hours ago, Mariamtee said:

And his reason is that we don’t know them.

It's a perfectly valid reason, to be honest. You would want your kids to marry someone you know so that as a parent, you can rest assured that he/she is making the right choice. After all, there are criteria for a good match in marriage (as cited in Volume 5 of Al-Kafi in the book about marriage):

Quote

H 9465, Ch. 24, h 1
A number of our people have narrated from Sahl ibn Ziyad from al-Husayn ibn Bashshar al-Wasitiy who has said the following:
“I once wrote to abu Ja‘far, ‘Alayhi al-Salam, and asked him about marriage. He (the Imam) wrote back to me the answer that said, ‘If one proposes marriage and if you are happy with that person’s religion and trust, then accept his proposal. If you do not do so there will be mischief in the land and a great destruction.’”

The situation is not the same for men and women however, since men can choose their soulmates without the permission of their fathers, while (virgin) women can't. Such a fact relies on two hadiths from Al-Kafi Volume 5 (in the book about marriage):

Quote

H 9643, Ch. 57, h 1
Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from Ali ibn al-Hakam from al-‘Ala’ ibn Razin from ibn abu ibn abu Ya’fur who has said the following:
“Abu ‘Abd Allah, ‘Alayhi al-Salam, has said, ‘A virgin woman who has her father must not marry without his permission.’”

Quote

H 9675, Ch. 65, h 1
Humayd ibn Ziyad has narrated from al-Hassan ibn Muhammad ibn Sama‘ah from al-Hassan Ribat from Habib al-Khath’amiy from ibn abu Ya’fur who has said the following:
“I once said to abu ‘Abd Allah, ‘Alayhi al-Salam, ‘I want to marry with a woman but my father wants another one. He (the Imam) said, ‘Marry the one you love, not the one your parents love.’”

Yet, know that your paternal grandfather's word takes precedence to your father's word when it comes to marriage, as cited in the following hadith:

Quote

H 9652, Ch. 58, h 1
Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from ibn Faddal from ibn Bukayr from ‘Ubayd ibn Zurarah who has said the following:
“This is concerning my question before abu ‘Abd Allah, ‘Alayhim al-Salam, about the case of a girl whose father wants to give her in marriage to one man and her grandfather wants to give her in marriage to another man. He (the Imam) said, ‘Grandfather is preferred above the father as long as it is not harmful to the girl and that the father has not given her in marriage before the grandfather. Both father and grandfather’s giving her in marriage is permissible.’

If you believe your father can be a tough nut to crack, you may go seek your grandfather's permission, and it'll still be valid.

Good luck sister, wa Salam.

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Ws,

I would suggest you book a meeting with your local sheikh and talk to him and tell him about the issue. InshaAllah he could talk to your father about this. If families dont know each other, they can get to know each other, that is not the real issue.

I would also suggest you to ask the lebanese guy to step up and contact your father himself, face to face would be the best, then your father could see who the guy is for himself.

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2 hours ago, Waseem162 said:

A boy who wants to marry a handicapped to earn the pleasure of Allah and to support that girl is not allowed to do so just because she is handicapped and because of fear of "What people would say".

There are strong people who dare to go against the crowd. 

My aunt, who is married to an Iranian, recently told us that a young successful guy where they live in Tehran married a handicapped girl and we were all impressed and delighted at this beautiful act. May Allah SWT reward him with Al Jennah InshaAllah! 

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3 hours ago, Carlzone said:

There are strong people who dare to go against the crowd. 

My aunt, who is married to an Iranian, recently told us that a young successful guy where they live in Tehran married a handicapped girl and we were all impressed and delighted at this beautiful act. May Allah SWT reward him with Al Jennah InshaAllah! 

Ita'at of Waledain is Wajib Isn't it?? 

It only happens when your parents allow it, otherwise its all a fairy tale.

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1 hour ago, Waseem162 said:

Ita'at of Waledain is Wajib Isn't it?? 

It only happens when your parents allow it, otherwise its all a fairy tale.

A man doesn't need his parents permission to marry. 

Men who can't be independent from their parents is a red flag for a woman (aka disaster waiting to happen). It means that they are immature and have not gone through the separation process from their parents that naturally occurs as we become adults. 

A man needs to be wearing his own pants. He should neither be controlled by his parents nor his woman. His woman might try to challenge him too (women do that). He needs to be able to stamp down his foot when needed and be the authority in the household. He should be respectful and listen but in the end call his own shots. 

*** Mod Note *** Disrespectful and emasculating comments edited out

*** Mod Note ***

If you really believe in being respectful, why are you disrespecting other members ?  Please think about this. Doctor, heal thyself first...If this is a real person I am talking to ??

*** End Mod Note ****

Edited by Abu Hadi

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5 hours ago, Carlzone said:

A man doesn't need his parents permission to marry. 

Men who can't be independent from their parents is a red flag for a woman (aka disaster waiting to happen). It means that they are immature and have not gone through the separation process from their parents that naturally occurs as we become adults. 

A man needs to be wearing his own pants. He should neither be controlled by his parents nor his woman. His woman might try to challenge him too (women do that). He needs to be able to stamp down his foot when needed and be the authority in the household. He should be respectful and listen but in the end call his own shots. 

*** Mod Note *** Disrespectful and emasculating comments edited out

*** Mod Note ***

If you really believe in being respectful, why are you disrespecting other members ?  Please think about this. Doctor, heal thyself first...If this is a real person I am talking to ??

*** End Mod Note ****

Dear Sister, Its okay that a man doesn't needs such permission but most of the places parents play a vital role in the marriage of a man too. 

Unfortunately such is the case.

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19 hours ago, Mariamtee said:

Salam everyone,

today I told my dad that I wanted someone to speak to him about marriage and he said let the mums talks.. it’s a mother’s that talk first. & I told him it’s different because this guy is Lebanese (I’m iraqi) and then he went on that no Lebanese, noway. And his reason is that we don’t know them. I told him, how are they any different, he’s into his deen and his good and he’s like yeah I know, they’re very religious but we don’t know them. No Lebanese, never. He never had a good reason and walked off.

What do I do now?? Can someone please help me, do I call a sheik? Do I wait it out? I don’t have anyone else to ask.. I’ve been waiting 3 years to marry him, I’ve been praying, making dua.. has anyone gone through this?

Some parents will remain adamant about their decisions irrespective of if you involve family members, a sheikh or even an ayatullah. 

Often decisions made by parents for marriage are not solely based on religion, but they are also hugely influenced by other factors such as personal prejudice towards a certain group of people, preconceived notions, concerns about how other people in the community/family will judge/perceive them, etc. This is clearly not right - but it is what it is.

Sister only you know what the true situation is in your household and what the personalities involved are like. Is your father likely to be swayed in the light of a logical argument being presented? Only you will know whether it’s time to call it a day or whether to continue pursuing this.

I wish there was an easy answer but sadly I do not believe there is. Pray and trust your instincts. 

Also, please forgive me if I am overstepping the mark here, but how well do you actually know this guy? Intercultural marriages can be successful - but practically speaking they also pose many challenges. Is this guy really worth the battle? Will he stand by you if his parents have the same issues with your heritage? Three years is a long time. You will have grown and changed an awful lot in this time, and likewise so will the guy have. Is he still the same person you fell in love with? Do you still want the same things from life and marriage?  The adrenaline rush you get when you first think that you are in love can be very powerful. Try to take a step back, introspect and reassess your situation.

You are in my prayers. 

Edited by Aflower

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9 hours ago, Aflower said:

Some parents will remain adamant about their decisions irrespective of if you involve family members, a sheikh or even an ayatullah. 

Often decisions made by parents for marriage are not solely based on religion, but they are also hugely influenced by other factors such as personal prejudice towards a certain group of people, preconceived notions, concerns about how other people in the community/family will judge/perceive them, etc. This is clearly not right - but it is what it is.

Sister only you know what the true situation is in your household and what the personalities involved are like. Is your father likely to be swayed in the light of a logical argument being presented? Only you will know whether it’s time to call it a day or whether to continue pursuing this.

I wish there was an easy answer but sadly I do not believe there is. Pray and trust your instincts. 

Also, please forgive me if I am overstepping the mark here, but how well do you actually know this guy? Intercultural marriages can be successful - but practically speaking they also pose many challenges. Is this guy really worth the battle? Will he stand by you if his parents have the same issues with your heritage? Three years is a long time. You will have grown and changed an awful lot in this time, and likewise so will the guy have. Is he still the same person you fell in love with? Do you still want the same things from life and marriage?  The adrenaline rush you get when you first think that you are in love can be very powerful. Try to take a step back, introspect and reassess your situation.

You are in my prayers. 

Thank you for your response. 

I hate that my dads reason is because he is Lebanese, it is wrong. He blows my mind how our communities respect means so much to him that he is willing to hurt his daughter over it. I love my dad and I want this permission more than anything but I’d like to think that if I go through with it without him, it does not become haram for me (please inform me if it is). Him saying no without even giving him the opportunity to meet him is haram and unfair. 

When I asked my dad, I thought he’ll give him a chance but he turned it down so aggressively that I don’t know if he will disown me or listen to a sheik. My whole family is okay with it except my dad, my mums know I speak to him and she has a really good feeling about him. 

I know this guy really well, I also know his sister and his brother.. I’ve studied with them in the past. His family knows me too so we’ve gotten the taste of our cultures being different but it’s not major, there’s no problems at all. This guy is worth it, and not because I love him but because of his manners and morals and his religion, his ability to make people around him better. He is the reason I am into my religion, not my family but him, he showed me how important and powerful our religion is. He is someone you want your sons to grow up like or what your daughters deserve. I’ve had abit of a tough life so I always think that god sent him to be to prove that no matter what, he has a plan at the end of the darkness. I’d like to think that he is my blessing. I’ve changed for the better, no doubt about that, and he is better than the man i first fell inlove with. Lastly, we want the same things in life, religion and marriage. 

Sorry if I sound like a cliché, I wanted to answer all your questions. I can promise you, I’m not over exaggerating anything. He is worth it, and he says I am worth it. Inshallah I want my kids to be exactly like him and what better way then let him be the one that raises them whether my dad is behind me or not.. I just don’t want to do anything haram, the last thing I want is to curse my marriage because I did something haram.

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I've heard the "we don't know that culture" reason, even in my own family. It can be a cover for racism, but it can also be more innocent than that. "We don't know them" can mean that we don't know who to ask about them; whether they are a good family or not, because our friends are mainly Iraqi and we don't know how to judge them prior to marriage. "We don't know them" can also mean, we don't know how their culture works. Culture plays a major role in the marriage. For example, problem resolution in Syrian/Lebanese culture is very different than in Iraqi culture. What is considered respectful and disrespectful isn't the same. What is considered masculine or feminine isn't the same.

So see what he means first. If he's just a nationalist, then (respectfully) he just needs to get over it. That's not an Islamically legitimate reason to deny a marriage. But if he genuinely feels that he can't judge the man and his family correctly, then that is a concern that you'll need to find a solution for. It could be bringing in a third party (a shaykh, a mutual friend, etc.) that can be a bridge between the two families.

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I don't know if this is suitable in your case but islamically your dad has no right to say no to a suitable suitor on unislamic grounds. If the guy is your equal you could let a sheikh marry you to him anyway, but that it a major risk if it doesn't work out. Then your dad might not want to take you back as you went against him. Only you know if this is suitable for you or not. 

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